8 hours ago, evadgib said:

In which case we can expect the arrival of Farage & the Brexit party even quicker than expected therefore "Bring it on!" ????

What you are inviting is a vote splitting party that will ensure that Corbyn is in power ... the obviousness of that is clearly hiding in plain sight.

 

 

36 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

No, he's saying that only the EU have agreed to that so called 'deal'. The UK have not agreed to it. You may not have noticed but it was rejected by the UK Parliament 3 times. 

 

Oh I did notice.

 

It’s the belief that there is by some magical chance of an alternative deal that I'm getting at.

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh I did notice.

 

It’s the belief that there is by some magical chance of an alternative deal that I'm getting at.

Well, previously the EU Commission were dealing with Theresa the Appeaser and the EU loving Ollie Robbins. 

It's quite possible that the EU Commission will stop with this "no more negotiations" nonsense once we have a Brexit PM and proper Brexit negotiators involved.

17 hours ago, webfact said:

Gove was third with 75.

Probably just as well Gove the Guppy is out .. How could they possibly have a new leader who looks like a fish .. 

Odds have gotten a lot better for Hunt.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/21/police-called-to-loud-altercation-at-boris-johnsons-home

19 hours ago, evadgib said:

Under existing rules whether we like it or not, as did May and Broon.

As you say did Brown, Major, May etc etc. It seems foreigners just don't understand the UK political system yet love to think they do.

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

A remainer paper like remainers supporting anyone and anything that would halt Brexit. Typically undemocratic as usual.

The Guardian will be counting how many farts Johnson does a day citing he is not PM material. Pathetic.

LG, your post captures perfectly the utterly ridiculous situation we are in - a man who, in normal times, very few would argue was fit for public office at any level, let alone for PM, is having his myriad weaknesses and failings forgiven, and even ameliorated in some quarters, simply because he promised 37% of the electorate that he would deliver their nebulous idea of sovereignty. 

 

The role of PM is not to deliver Brexit - it is to lead the country in all aspects. Johnson will be our Trump - a man of limited intellect, woeful lack of self awareness and an international laughing stock - another humiliating stain on the already much tarnished reputation of the UK. 

8 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

Well, previously the EU Commission were dealing with Theresa the Appeaser and the EU loving Ollie Robbins. 

It's quite possible that the EU Commission will stop with this "no more negotiations" nonsense once we have a Brexit PM and proper Brexit negotiators involved.

And all of a sudden the Irish Border problems evaporate, issues of regulation and dispute resolution evaporate, standards evaporate, market access becomes a freebie for the UK to take with no give.

 

Unicorns roaming free and wild.

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As you say did Brown, Major, May etc etc. It seems foreigners just don't understand the UK political system yet love to think they do.

This is rich stuff given the number of Brexiteer post displaying a complete lack of understanding of the law, of how Parliament operates and  the part the UK and the UK Parliament plays in the promulgation of EU laws.

 

Cast your mind back to Gina Millar et al going to court and using the law to drag the Government back before Parliament and putting an end to Brexit by Executive Order.

 

Brexiteers branded these people who knew and understood the law, ‘enemies of the people’, ‘traitors’ .... 

 

Follow that with Brexiteers cheering on the dangerous suggestion that a PM might suspend Parliament to force Brexit through.

 

The only thing demonstrable by the evidence presented on this forum is predominance of Brexiteers who either don’t know or understand the law and how British Parliamentary Democracy works, or worse still, don’t care so long as the means meets their own ends.

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh I did notice.

 

It’s the belief that there is by some magical chance of an alternative deal that I'm getting at.

Then why reply to my post? I don't believe in fairies.

52 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This is rich stuff given the number of Brexiteer post displaying a complete lack of understanding of the law, of how Parliament operates and  the part the UK and the UK Parliament plays in the promulgation of EU laws.

 

Cast your mind back to Gina Millar et al going to court and using the law to drag the Government back before Parliament and putting an end to Brexit by Executive Order.

 

Brexiteers branded these people who knew and understood the law, ‘enemies of the people’, ‘traitors’ .... 

 

Follow that with Brexiteers cheering on the dangerous suggestion that a PM might suspend Parliament to force Brexit through.

 

The only thing demonstrable by the evidence presented on this forum is predominance of Brexiteers who either don’t know or understand the law and how British Parliamentary Democracy works, or worse still, don’t care so long as the means meets their own ends.

Perry Mason on steroids.

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

A remainer paper like remainers supporting anyone and anything that would halt Brexit. Typically undemocratic as usual.

The Guardian will be counting how many farts Johnson does a day citing he is not PM material. Pathetic.

Remote sensing fartometers for all paparazzi now!

1 hour ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

its on every front page of every newspaper in england today.

 

what did they say? only boris can beat boris?

 

lol - the numbnut has gone and done it this time.

 

(actually wouldn't surprise me if he's done it intentionally - he is a quitter after all)

 

lets be clear, i AM a leaver, but seriously if a man cannot control himself at home do we really want him to run our country? our nukes?

 

acting like a loved up teenager throwing his toys out of the pram and getting the police called. grow up man.

 

Hmmm, a disgruntled neighbour known to have put a professionally produced poster on BJ's car that said something like "I'd rather have BJ as a neighbour than a Prime minister" (seen elsewhere this morning) and who alledgedly went as far as to turn this into Fred and Rose?

 

I suspect Joe Public will see this for what it is; A desperate attempt by remain that only usually works in UK's draconian family courts.

An off topic baiting troll post has been removed

15 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The EU deal was to stay

 

Which is fair enough, as it is the task of the E.U..

 

At least this is what many of the E.U. countries, which profit from the contributions done by the members of the E.U., think.

 

I don't expect that the rest of the big contributors, like Germany, will pay more, and  pay the part of the U. K. when it leave the E.U.. 

 

These countries which profit, will just get less contributions.

 

I suppose they will have to manage, and succeed in it in one way or another. 

 

Just like the U.K. will do when leaving the E.U..

 

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

If the police don't arrest or shoot anybody they are generally happy, no crime had been committed.

Whatever we think of Boris at the moment I don't think anybody would argue he must be under immense pressure, with his leadership challenge and his separation from his other half. As much as some people like to demonise him, at the end of the day he is just human like the rest of us. It doesn't take a lot to blow a fuse when under such pressure, maybe his new girlfriend revealed she was actually a remoaner, I don't know.

You only have to look at his track record to see what Boris is all

about, and it isn't the way a future PM of the UK should behave.

 

If you think he's under immense pressure now, how the hell is 

he going to handle the pressure of running the country, dealing

with Brexit and opposing the new Brexit Party when Farage comes

along after Boris fails to deliver Brexit by 31st Oct. 

 

The Tory MP's who are backing him are only doing so to try and

keep their jobs by following the popular trend within the party.

It's just a matter of time, when Boris fails the Tories will fail 

with him at the next GE.

If the Tory membership have any sense, and want to stay in power then they should go with Hunt it's their only hope now.

 

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Remote sensing fartometers for all paparazzi now!

Oh Horrors and more MSM headlines. "Next PM has Friday night tiff with hysterical girlfriend over spilt red wine on sofa." 

I'll be it wasn't even her new white sofa. I think that's most of us out of the running for PM then. 

1 minute ago, sotsira said:

You only have to look at his track record to see what Boris is all

about, and it isn't the way a future PM of the UK should behave.

 

If you think he's under immense pressure now, how the hell is 

he going to handle the pressure of running the country, dealing

with Brexit and opposing the new Brexit Party when Farage comes

along after Boris fails to deliver Brexit by 31st Oct. 

 

The Tory MP's who are backing him are only doing so to try and

keep their jobs by following the popular trend within the party.

It's just a matter of time, when Boris fails the Tories will fail 

with him at the next GE.

If the Tory membership have any sense, and want to stay in power then they should go with Hunt it's their only hope now.

 

Boris Johnsons private life is of little or no consequence to me nor should be of little interest to other people too. It is human nature if we dislike someone to start calling them names, remainers generally do it to people who threaten their chances of remaining within the EU. JR Mogg has had it, he talks too posh as one member said, Nigel Farage has been called a Nazi and a Fascist, all because he believes in democracy. Now it's Boris Johnsons turn to be maligned, it is totally pathetic, the left wing media are having a field day. 

 

But you are correct the Tories could fail, but at this moment Boris is their only hope of survival, suggesting Hunt is a better choice than Boris is farcical, Hunt is a remainer and remember what happened to the last remainer PM. Boris must get us out of the EU by the 31st of Oct and keep a Corbyn government from entering number 10 or else it's goodnight Vienna for the Tories.

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris Johnsons private life is of little or no consequence to me nor should be of little interest to other people too. It is human nature if we dislike someone to start calling them names, remainers generally do it to people who threaten their chances of remaining within the EU. JR Mogg has had it, he talks too posh as one member said, Nigel Farage has been called a Nazi and a Fascist, all because he believes in democracy. Now it's Boris Johnsons turn to be maligned, it is totally pathetic, the left wing media are having a field day. 

Remainers and lefties venomous name calling is one of life's constants. Very visible in this forum especially, where we see it on a daily basis.  They are very thin skinned to retorts too, except on that calloused finger which hits the report button so often. 

Multiple off topic posts have been removed as they are hijacking the topic.

 

The discussion about a visit by the police to Mr Johnson home is HERE

17 hours ago, JAG said:

And if you reread my now edited (expanded) post, you will see that I argue that "It is a mess because the government, despite confirming their intention to carry out the simple decision of the electorate, failed, or more properly never attempted any meaningful negotiations, or planned for any other exit on terms other than those dictated by the EU."

How could there have been any other outcome to the negotiations? The EU held all the cards and were always in control of the outcome of the deal. No matter who negotiated the deal on behalf of the UK, the result would have been identical. The negotiations were never about personalities, they were always dependant on one party negotiating from a position of strength and the other from a position of extreme weakness.

The EU mandarins asserted that Britain would suffer for it's  decision to leave the club and so it will be. Boris will have 2 choices, leave on what will substantially be May's deal or leave with no deal. The EU will not re-negotiate, why should they?

So, it's no deal then, a complete disaster for the UK, socially, politically and economically. Don't blame May, Barnier, Verhofstadt or anyone else but yourself for the mess we're in. You voted in the referendum with your heart, not your head, not very wise when making life changing decisions.

31 minutes ago, petemoss said:

So, it's no deal then, a complete disaster for the UK, socially, politically and economically. Don't blame May, Barnier, Verhofstadt or anyone else but yourself for the mess we're in. You voted in the referendum with your heart, not your head, not very wise when making life changing decisions.

Free and in poverty, or living as a vassal to the Germans.

It's a hard choice to make, but one we've made twice before.

The crisis and chaos engulfing British politics is not simply a symptom of incompetent leadership or bad policy choices. It expresses a deep crisis of representation in the political system, which Brexit did not cause, but only revealed. British elites have lost the capacity to represent societal interests and their authority has, accordingly, imploded.

Since the crisis of capitalism in the 1980s, and the onset of the neoliberal era, interest representation has substantially broken down. The major parties converged on a neoliberal programme, offering no substantive choice to voters. The electorate became estranged from the parties, many ceasing to vote altogether, and elected legislators ceased to become representative.

I read a lot of posters here who are gleeful about the current farce. There is nothing to be gleeful about as the political establishment implodes. Those tempted by Mao’s line that “everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent” should think again.

2 hours ago, petemoss said:

How could there have been any other outcome to the negotiations? The EU held all the cards and were always in control of the outcome of the deal. No matter who negotiated the deal on behalf of the UK, the result would have been identical. The negotiations were never about personalities, they were always dependant on one party negotiating from a position of strength and the other from a position of extreme weakness.

The EU mandarins asserted that Britain would suffer for it's  decision to leave the club and so it will be. Boris will have 2 choices, leave on what will substantially be May's deal or leave with no deal. The EU will not re-negotiate, why should they?

So, it's no deal then, a complete disaster for the UK, socially, politically and economically. Don't blame May, Barnier, Verhofstadt or anyone else but yourself for the mess we're in. You voted in the referendum with your heart, not your head, not very wise when making life changing decisions.

Your view but I disagree, particularly with which of their body parts leavers used when deciding how to vote. May allowed the EU to be in control of the negotiations and the outcome of same but we cannot know that it did not matter who negotiated on behalf of the UK because the EU say they will not consider any renegotiation, so we have no opportunity for a second test and comparison. 

 

You have given the EU the full deck of cards but I don't think they have all of the aces and faces. All is not well within the EU, politically, financially and economically. The EU would suffer significantly more damage from a no deal Brexit at this time (as well as the UK) than they care to admit. The EU is bluffing in hope to win this game and attempt to stop any further exits at the same time.

 

If we leave with no deal then I see the EU hinting at some kind of a deal within 6 months. My view.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If we leave with no deal then I see the EU hinting at some kind of a deal within 6 months. My view.

If the UK leaves, I can't see Italy or Greece staying in for long.

11 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And all of a sudden the Irish Border problems evaporate, issues of regulation and dispute resolution evaporate, standards evaporate, market access becomes a freebie for the UK to take with no give.

 

Unicorns roaming free and wild.

All those things you mention are resolvable even with no deal, apart from perhaps access to the single market. They are only made to sound difficult by people who have a vested interest in the UK remaining in the EU.

 

Single market access can be solved with a FTA. We are told how wonderful the EU are at negotiating FTAs with countries such as Canada and Japan, so why not with the UK? Or is the UK to be treated like an enemy now? And if that's the case, why the hell would we want to stay part of the EU?! 

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

All those things you mention are resolvable even with no deal, apart from perhaps access to the single market. They are only made to sound difficult by people who have a vested interest in the UK remaining in the EU.

 

Single market access can be solved with a FTA. We are told how wonderful the EU are at negotiating FTAs with countries such as Canada and Japan, so why not with the UK? Or is the UK to be treated like an enemy now? And if that's the case, why the hell would we want to stay part of the EU?! 

'The easiest deal in history'.

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your view but I disagree, particularly with which of their body parts leavers used when deciding how to vote. May allowed the EU to be in control of the negotiations and the outcome of same but we cannot know that it did not matter who negotiated on behalf of the UK because the EU say they will not consider any renegotiation, so we have no opportunity for a second test and comparison. 

 

You have given the EU the full deck of cards but I don't think they have all of the aces and faces. All is not well within the EU, politically, financially and economically. The EU would suffer significantly more damage from a no deal Brexit at this time (as well as the UK) than they care to admit. The EU is bluffing in hope to win this game and attempt to stop any further exits at the same time.

 

If we leave with no deal then I see the EU hinting at some kind of a deal within 6 months. My view.

 

 

 

It's not the EU facing a political crisis. 

 

 

'The easiest deal in history'.

So who are the people who obstruct it? Who says ‘Non’ to more negotiation?
This is only the divorce (lack of) agreement too. The actual deal they were talking about hasn’t even been started yet, because of their trickery in introducing the WAG surrender treaty before we get to a trade deal.