Thai vs Falang builders

[Munsterman]

I’ve had this discussion a few times recently, and thought it worth raising here. In my search for a house builder a year or so ago I had a lot of expats bemoaning the sub-standard work of Thais and saying I really needed to pay the premium that falang builders charge to get quality. However, despite these warnings of dire outcomes, I found a young Thai builder and liked the quality of his previous work and his attitude toward building standards.
To cut to the chase -  in my area (Doi Saket, near Chiang Mai) there are a number of houses being built, and 3 that I know of well. Mine (Thai builder) and two others (falang builders). We moved into our Thai built house a month ago - it took 6 months from start to finish. We have only the most minor of gripes, and  got a very good job at a good price - with quality inclusions and great attention to detail.

Meanwhile falang house no. 1 that started in the same week as us, and is of a similar size and construction, still hasn’t got a roof on after 6 months, has had numerous delays, cost blow-outs and many other problems. Watching the procession of workers there, I must say I prefer my builder, who has mostly permanent staff rather than a host of subbies and day labourers.

Falang house no.2 is even worse. The builder seems to have been totally incompetent. An engineer who inspected it recently recommended tearing it all down, as the work was so sub-standard as to be dangerous. The owner now has a court action in process to recover money paid to the builder, and has taken over supervising the repair & renovation of the building using local workers he has found.

So, disregard the myths about inferior Thai builders. There are of course bad Thai builders, as there are of course good falang builders - and all builders are limited by the technology, training levels and materials available here. Due diligence is the name of the game, and don’t fall for the myths.

[petermik]

There are good and bad builders the world over,not just here.....this is my four year old thai built house......cost just 1.3 million......excellent work and no problems...so far

[BobBKK]

You were lucky. Thais, generally, are lazy and cut corners but there are some hard working Burmese around who, if watched very carefully, can do an ok job. 

[moontang]

You gotta watch them on expansion joints, and centering tile.  Plumbing needs to be properly vented, and electrical needs to be grounded. Most of the custom homes here become pink elephants worth less than they cost to build.  Land is what appreciates, here. 

[petermik]

8 hours ago, BobBKK said:

You were lucky. Thais, generally, are lazy and cut corners but there are some hard working Burmese around who, if watched very carefully, can do an ok job. 

Not luck at all.....he,s a well respected Thai builder that uses local workers (Trang southern Thailand) and we looked at other properties he had built and spoke to the owners.....paid him 400,000 baht labour only and materials sourced ourselves 900,000 baht.....Qcon blocks/CPAC monier roof tiles and best quality cement and concrete used.......no corner cutting at all..... 

[petermik]

8 hours ago, moontang said:

and electrical needs to be grounded. Most of the custom homes here become pink elephants worth less than they cost to build.  

They do not pass off any new build in the area we had ours built (Huay Yot Trang) unless a ground rod is fitted along with a SafeTCut fuse box.......the pink elephants you refer to may exist in Bangkok but down south it,s value for money.

[observer90210]

I would be more inclined to keep a suspicious eye on any falang real estate developper or agent,  before signing anything....very often in Thailand, the falang entrepreneuse are far worse then the Thais.

[colinneil]

Quite funny reading this.. Farang builders better than Thai, if you use Thai builders they use Thai workers.

If you use farang builders they use Thai workers, so at the end of the day you get the same end result.

[petermik]

7 hours ago, colinneil said:

Quite funny reading this.. Farang builders better than Thai, if you use Thai builders they use Thai workers.

If you use farang builders they use Thai workers, so at the end of the day you get the same end result.

Except for the higher cost premium from the farang builder......

[CharlieH]

The art is finding a good one to start with, of any nationality.

I went through 3 during my build. When you do get a good result , keep his details like gold ! 

[moontang]

2 hours ago, petermik said:

There are good and bad builders the world over,not just here.....this is my four year old thai built house......cost just 1.3 million......excellent work and no problems...so far

Where are the expansion joints in the driveway? 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, CharlieH said:

The art is finding a good one to start with, of any nationality.

 

Absolutely correct....3 other builders turned up to my GF,s brother,s house when they heard we were looking for a builder all 3 quoted less for labour...none had any experience of building with Q Con blocks,the builder I chose I had seen building a nearby new build....no one of course could speak english so later I took the GF along to get the low down and speak to the owners of the property being built for any issues....I then negotiated a price for the build and 7 months later it was completed...one or two hitches of course but in the end well worth £25,000 UK pounds (luckily it was 54/55 baht to the pound then) 

2/3 bedrooms 2 en-suite bathrooms 120 sq. metres in total 

and before anyone chimes in with "but it,s not yours-you cannot own a house here" I knew full well before I decided to have what is a holiday home for me and somewhere for my GF when my toes curl up......and I will never spend anymore money here that I cannot afford to walk away from if needed.

[Crossy]

25 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Quite funny reading this.. Farang builders better than Thai, if you use Thai builders they use Thai workers.

If you use farang builders they use Thai workers, so at the end of the day you get the same end result.

 

Our home was built almost exclusively by Khmer workers under our Thai contractor. Generally a fine job except the (Thai) sparks, we used up six in the process of getting it nearly right. I finished it off with a Brit mate.

 

[petermik]

7 hours ago, moontang said:

Where are the expansion joints in the driveway? 

Spring loaded and hidden away out of prying eyes......????

[colinneil]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Our home was built almost exclusively by Khmer workers under our Thai contractor. Generally a fine job except the (Thai) sparks, we used up six in the process of getting it nearly right. I finished it off with a Brit mate.

 

Yes mate the standard of so-called Thai sparkies is abysmal.

[moontang]

It's practically the Thai trademark.. no expansion joints... I hadn't heard of them doing post tension slabs here, like they do when they build on expansive soil in the West.  And the plumbing  vent stacks?

[ThomasThBKK]

If you hire one of the good thai builders, and they do exist - or do you think hotels like Marriot and co are using substandard builders - then expect to pay european or in some cases (islands) even higher prices.

It's with everything in life, you get what you pay for - the really good builders are mostly, but not exclusively based in bangkok. But you will get 10 year or even lifetime warranty on the structure.

 

Whatever you do, do not hire small companies, only big ones - theres not way to get your money back from small companies even if you win in front of a court...they simply dont have any assets to liquidate.

[moontang]

27 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If you hire one of the good thai builders, and they do exist - or do you think hotels like Marriot and co are using substandard builders - then expect to pay european or in some cases (islands) even higher prices.

It's with everything in life, you get what you pay for - the really good builders are mostly, but not exclusively based in bangkok. But you will get 10 year or even lifetime warranty on the structure.

 

Whatever you do, do not hire small companies, only big ones - theres not way to get your money back from small companies even if you win in front of a court...they simply dont have any assets to liquidate.

Kind of true in the West, too.  We had a contractor on our street, tear down a 100 year old house, and build a concrete monstrosity, that was completed in time for the GFC.. he defaulted on the loan and walked away.. saw him a month later, and he already had a new company name and logo on his truck door. The national builders have made the process as unskilled as possible, but they can throw up a 500k us house iness than a month. Not a carpenter to ever visit the site. 

Edited June 29, 2019 by moontang

[jingjai9]

The difference is the workplace. I think many Thais have the attitude, "I only work here, who cares." These are workers who get maybe 100 baht per day and just do their time. What is in it for them? They get the same pay working fast or slow, conscientiouly or carelessly. 

 

Western workers are often held more accountable due to resumes or employers checking on places where one previously worked. Also, I would think there is more accountabliltiy to inspectors in western countries; whereas, inspections in Thailand are often passed off as being "too serious."

 

In the end, there are good and bad of all sorts in all places.  These sterotypes that Thai workers are inferior (or as in the US saying, "They did a Mexican job") is another manifestation of racism, cultural superiority or provincial pomposity, call it what you will. This post I think could serve as the beginning of a good research project.

 

[4MyEgo]

Retiring from a property valuation background of 25 years in Sydney, it was part and parcel of my job to inspect some properties being built so that various banks could release funds to pay the builder once the builder sent them his progress claim, there are 5 claims from start to finish in 20% claims per inspection.

 

I have seen a lot of crap workmanship from builders and a few good ones, suffice to say whenever I was doing a reno or a build, I would project manage it myself because I have never heard a good story when it came to a client being happy with their builder.

 

The above said, we waited a year for the Thai guy in our village to build our place, he is not a qualified builder in any form, however worked under his father for many years and learnt the trade so to speak, and I inspected 3 properties he built in the village.

 

He did an extension on our little bungalow and then joined the main house to the bungalow, in all it took a year with him only using a friend and then calling in team of renderers when they had to render inside and outside. 

 

His workmanship is that good that I won't allow anyone else to do any work around the house and will wait months for him to finish off whatever he has on so that he can do a further extension, or a covered outdoor area, or an additional carport.

 

He is cheap with his prices as we paid him 500,000 baht back 3 years ago for the extension to the bungalow and single level house build which worked out to be around 256 square metres excluding the existing bungalow which is 64 square metres. 

 

The materials we purchased cost us around a million baht, so that works out to be around 5,860 baht per square metre inclusive of the builders fee, or the complete build of 1.5 mil baht, or $272AUD per square metre, that's slightly cheaper than what it would cost me back in Sydney, i.e. 64,500 per square metre, or $3,000AUD per square metre, or $768,000AUD completed, so one could say we are stocked ????

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

There are good and bad builders in every country. I still remember the new townhouse I bought in Australia, when I came back from a holiday to find the light fitting in the master bedroom filled with water and hanging from where it had torn loose from the ceiling. Turned out the builder had been short one roof tile, and had simply substituted a sheet of cardboard wrapped in plastic. Naturally, it was dislodged in the first high wind.

The attached photo is a guest unit, 36 sqm. on my GF's property. Bedroom, ensuite, lounge and small kitchen. Local builder, brought about 15 relations to work. Very well built. Total cost 300,000 baht.

[1FinickyOne]

Thanks for the interesting post. 

 

Everywhere you go, you will here bad builder stories... 

 

I have a friend who had a great Thai builder and was very pleased. He recommended him onward to a friend and the guy did an awful job even using rotted wood... go figure?? 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by kenk24

[ChrisKC]

23 hours ago, colinneil said:

Yes mate the standard of so-called Thai sparkies is abysmal.

Well, I found a Thai Electrician here in Lampang. I got him to examine much of the electrics around the house and to tidy up some atrocious wiring and sockets as well as installing 4 light fittings in the kitchen and lounge. he arrived with a truck with proper ladders, all the tools. A very nice man who knew what he was doing. A nice job and cleaned up his mess afterwards!! I can't remember the cost exactly but much less than B1,000.

But, yes, Thai "sparkies" are rare.

[BobBKK]

On 6/29/2019 at 1:11 PM, colinneil said:

Quite funny reading this.. Farang builders better than Thai, if you use Thai builders they use Thai workers.

If you use farang builders they use Thai workers, so at the end of the day you get the same end result.

Actually most use non-Thai workers. I have built 3 houses here and renovated 22 condos, he was lucky. I could go on all day about the problems but, as i said, the non-Thais who do the actual work are far more industrious and hard working IMHO and in my experience. Thai sparkies, agreed, are atrocious and I had to get my house re-wired and 3 phase put in.

[khunPer]

On 6/29/2019 at 5:56 AM, Munsterman said:

So, disregard the myths about inferior Thai builders. There are of course bad Thai builders, as there are of course good falang builders - and all builders are limited by the technology, training levels and materials available here. Due diligence is the name of the game, and don’t fall for the myths.

It's the same Lao, Myanmar, and Isaan farmers having job as building construction workers by both the Thai constructor, and the farang constructor – farangs do not build the house, they are management only – and the farang building constructor might add 12 percent to 18 percent (or more?) on top of the total construction price, a Thai building constructor could make the house for.

 

Most important is the foreman, and that the house owner – or whoever looks after the construction – can communicate with the building constructor. Furthermore that material quality has been agreed and specified.

 

I had a Thai building constructor speaking excellent English – had been married to a British lady, and lived in London – his company were sub-contractor for high end luxury villa constructions by farang building construction management; i.e. they added their mark up on his quote, and his staff should wear a shirt with their company name on the construction sites, so they appeared as their workers. It was the Thai building constructor making the house, including his sub-contractors for electric, and plumbing, and tile work, etc.; all waering a shirt with the farang company name. He had two foremen and two teams working on two different construction sites for two farang companies.

 

My girlfriend and I checked his high end work, and he gave me the best construction quote of two Thai companies, the other was the architect that had transferred my drawings into computer drawings, and applied for my building permission.

 

My next door neighbor was building at the same time and choose a farang company, or rather two, as the first one was quicly sacked and the construction began all over again. I could see that the work was sub-contracted to Thais; their foreman came into our site all the time and yapped, I think he was mainly interested in our young nanny. Later, when my workers had finished basic construction, they continued at my next door neighbors site, after their farang project manager had been stopping me several times, and asked how we did this-and-that, as it looked like our's were made better than their job – he even asking advice in the HomeMart building material market about what fittings to buy – i.e. our "farmers" were probably little more experienced in building construction than their "farmers", and our Thai foreman was little older than their Thai foreman, and thereby probably also more experienced.

 

I couldn't afford high-end luxury – meaning high-end finishing materials like slate plate floors and teak wood floors, and sand-stone walls, and marble bathrooms, and teak wood doors and windows etc., but instead using average priced more normal tiles and fittings. However, the quality of the work was exactly the same as in the high-end mansion, but for a fraction of the price. And the basic materials – because you can find excellent building materials in Thailand – was of high quality, because we had agreed materials in details. We didn't have any noticeable construction quality issues, both before, and after the house was finished – nor any cracks in concrete, or any leaks from roof – so far it has been standing for nine problem-free years after finishing.

 

Agree, find a Thai building constructor that you can communicate with – preferable one speaking some acceptable level of English – and where you have a possibility to check the previous work, eventually also at an active construction site, where things are open, without make-up; then you will have a good house build for a reasonable cost...????

[KhaoYai]

Yes there are good and bad builders everywhere but nowhere else have I seen work as atrociously bad as I witnessed with the first contractor during the renovation of my house. Socket wiring extended using the same colour wire for live, neutral and earth, window openings built to the wrong size, doors fitted upside down........etc. etc. - needless to say they were fired pretty quickly.

 

One thing I've seen many, many times in Thailand is toilets fitted out of line with the outlet pipe.  They just don't seem to be able to get that right and their usual remedy is to cut a slot in the concrete floor in an attempt to bring the two items into line. I made the mistake of not being there whilst the work was being done - I only found out my toilets were fitted out of line because the contractor left the rubber seals that go between the toilet and the floor on a window cill and tried to seal the toilet joint using silicone.  I removed the toilets - there were the 'traditional' slots in the floor (which meant the seals couldn't be used). I insisted the outlet pipes were repositioned before the next stage payment was made. Luckily it didn't affect the tiling - it could have been much worse.

 

I've seen excellent workmanship in Thailand but when I've seen bad, its been the worst I've seen anywhere.  If you don't get the right builder you may find their standards are just not the same as ours.

 

Another thing they seem to have a problem with is getting the fall right in shower floors. How many hotels have you stayed in where the water flows anywhere but towards the waste?

 

By the way, Thai's don't normally use 'vent stacks' (as has been mentioned) in their plumbing because their usual plumbing doesn't use traps so in effect the system is not sealed.  You only need vents if you are sealing the system and even then you can use an internal durgo valve as an alternative. Of course a toilet is sealed by nature of its built in 'S' trap but if, as is usual in Thailand, the shower and/or sink falls into the same waste and are not fitted with traps, there is no need for a vent stack.

 

I have no 'vent stacks', my toilets, sinks and showers fall into the same pipe - the toilet is 'trapped' and I fitted pedestal traps to the sinks but there are no traps on the shower outlets. Therefore the shower outlets vent the system - I don't know how but I don't get any odour in either bathroom.

 

That said, if I was doing a new build, I would incorporate a vent or durgo into the system but its not an easy thing to do on an existing property - they rarely use external soil stacks, incorporating them into a concrete pillar is pretty standard so access can be very difficult.

Edited June 30, 2019 by KhaoYai

[rwill]

46 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

 

I have no 'vent stacks', my toilets, sinks and showers fall into the same pipe - the toilet is 'trapped' and I fitted pedestal traps to the sinks but there are no traps on the shower outlets. Therefore the shower outlets vent the system - I don't know how but I don't get any odour in either bathroom.

 

 

I use those floor drains that have a trap door that stays closed unless water is flowing down them.  I had some spring type doors at first but the springs wore out after awhile.  Keeps odors and pests out.

[KhaoYai]

1 minute ago, rwill said:

I use those floor drains that have a trap door that stays closed unless water is flowing down them.  I had some spring type doors at first but the springs wore out after awhile.  Keeps odors and pests out.

The problem is that using those could 'seal' your system if its not open elsewhere - i.e. the sink.

[Captain 776]

SAying u cant use a Thai is total BS.

I have 2 Thai companies u can contact and go see houses in various stages of construction to completion.

the house is plumb-level-straight and square.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, Captain 776 said:

SAying u cant use a Thai is total BS.

I don't think anyone is saying you can't use a Thai builder - I just think you have to be very careful. I was taken to see some previous jobs which looked fine - the work on my house by the first contractor was appalling. I think it also depends on where you are - in some areas its harder to find a good contractor than others.

Edited June 30, 2019 by KhaoYai