Tougher immigration rules sees large number of Nordic expats leave Thailand

[Soikhaonoiken]

The financial strain on many ex pats with lower pension incomes due to the strong Baht and medical insurance will force many to relocate. 

[rickudon]

I'm sure there are a number of reasons why less Nordic people are extending their visas - the increasing air pollution, dangerous roads, falling exchange rates and rising prices all might be factors. But I'm sure the immigration changes are the bigger reason.

 

TM30 reporting, 90 day reports, having to book visa appointments at embassies and extra documents (for marriage extension you now need to go to Amphoe and get a new document as proof of marriage every year) are all irritating but minor issues. The big one is the new financial requirements. Sure if you just parked your 800,000 baht In a bank and didn't touch it you are unaffected. But some used to draw down this money during the year, now cannot touch it for half the year and not take more than half.

The lack of embassy letter proving income for some (e,g, Danes) is also an issue - as Khunper pointed out. The embassy letter was GROSS income, while the money paid into the bank every month is your NET income. Not just taxes, some of us have financial commitments to pay for in our home country. That change means we at a stroke need maybe 25% more than before - for some a lot more. Also that 40,000 or 65,000 has to be received from abroad every month without fail - get it wrong once and could be bye bye extension next time. Sure there are work arounds, but of dubious legality.

 

Not surprising that Danes have declined more than others. I doubt that it will become a flood, but over the next few years I expect westerners living in Thailand will continue to fall. The rich western expat is in reality a myth - over half the ones I know well enough to know something of their finances have well under 100,000 baht a month to live on.

[wisperone]

2 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Damn, this ones on overstay but we can't fine him cuz he's dead.

what do you think the purpose of maintaining 400k is for? Its called a security deposit.

[roo860]

Most Skandis have drunk themselves to death.
[emoji4]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[meand]

What they really need to do here, and I am being dead serious for everyone's sake, is make it much easier for female "nords" to stay. Males not so much. Males of all nationalities that is. 

[ukrules]

13 hours ago, yogi100 said:

Many of us have substantial saving in our own countries but for various reasons will not put it in a Thai bank.

Oh come off it, I've got plenty more than a million Baht in my Thai bank account for no particular reason and I'm not even 50 yet so I don't qualify for a retirement visa.

 

With the Baht going up like it is why would you not? If it changes direction, just move it somewhere else.....

[ukrules]

11 hours ago, Nielsk said:

....has that happen after the new rules ?

Yes, I don't think you quite grasp how deep the corruption runs here....

Edited July 1, 2019 by ukrules

[ScandAsia]

When ThaiVisa copied my article they did.not copy the original article. They copied the article from another blog who had copied and altered my article. This is clear from the headline, which blames the decline on something that I don't think is related - but shows the bias from the first copier. The comments here are commenting on a distorted version instead of the original article. That is indeed poor journalism - as some of the comments here have pointed out.

[Salerno]

49 minutes ago, rickudon said:

Sure if you just parked your 800,000 baht In a bank and didn't touch it you are unaffected.

 

49 minutes ago, rickudon said:

The lack of embassy letter proving income for some (e,g, Danes) is also an issue - as Khunper pointed out. The embassy letter was GROSS income, while the money paid into the bank every month is your NET income. Not just taxes, some of us have financial commitments to pay for in our home country. That change means we at a stroke need maybe 25% more than before - for some a lot more.

So basically, can't afford to be here. Again not seeing the minor changes as being an issue for those that can actually meet the laws of their adopted country. The fact the embassy letters didn't confirm a person had enough money is not the Thais fault.

 

Like I said, I have empathy for people in this situation but the reality is they can't afford to be there legally and likely never could if the Thais had actually been enforcing the law. Instead of complaining perhaps people should be grateful for the time they had.

[daveAustin]

19 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

I've lived in the same North Eastern city for 14 years, met a lot of people, both falang and Thai, and apart from 45 years spent in my place of birth, this is the only other place I have stayed long time.

I rent, what I think is, a great, relatively cheap, condominium, superb location, near a lovely lake I walk around each morning at 5.00am for exercise. Everywhere I need to go to is on a songteaw route that is very close, including the Government Hospital, which I use regularly for physio, and I have never had any complaints with the immigration office here. I live a far better quality of life here than I would back home, and have far more friends, and acquaintances, than I do back there.

If I were to move, I would have to start the whole process over again, meeting new people (who to trust, and who not to?), registering at a new hospital, and getting familiar with it, finding my way round a new environment, and, most importantly, finding accommodation as good as the one I am in now.

At aged late fifties, I cannot see the point of leaving and starting again somewhere else, in view of the above, and would only do so if I was forced to, and I would think most people here feel the same. So I , personally, cannot see a mass exodus of expats out, unless it is financially not possible to remain here.

That seems to be the strand of the op, though. A lot of these guys have families and significant outgoings... put yourself in their shoes. Singletons renting cheapish digs probably won't feel a squeeze. We all know how easy the life can be and most would probably like to stay, but if the figures don't tally and it's more trouble than it's worth (esp if one has kids), then time to go surely...

[madmen]

11 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

That seems to be the strand of the op, though. A lot of these guys have families and significant outgoings... put yourself in their shoes. Singletons renting cheapish digs probably won't feel a squeeze. We all know how easy the life can be and most would probably like to stay, but if the figures don't tally and it's more trouble than it's worth (esp if one has kids), then time to go surely...

Singles renting cheap shoe boxes around 4k/month do so for beer and girl money. The numbers don't add up when the shock of health insurance premiums come into play . lets face it nobody renting cheapish digs as you put it do so to channel savings into a health plan they may never use ..health care has been out of mind out of site until this last year when the government is now insisting we all have it,,, time to go surely for many

[Thaiwrath]

1 hour ago, madmen said:

..health care has been out of mind out of site until this last year when the government is now insisting we all have it,

I must have missed that one, and I read the news every day !

Any link to the fact that everyone must have it, or are you quoting o-a visas ?

Edited July 1, 2019 by Thaiwrath

[observer90210]

Money has shifted hands fortunately for those who got their hands on it like the Indians or the Chinese....and unfortunately for those loosing their hand like the Europeans and other westerners.....

 

The rules of the game are changing for the best and for the worst......sad however as in the process, many will have to start all over again elsewhere, that may not be an easy task depending on one's age....

[mosan]

1 hour ago, Thaiwrath said:

I must have missed that one, and I read the news every day !

Any link to the fact that everyone must have it, or are you quoting o-a visas ?

There is no news on the need to have insurance. And, by the way, it's not required for an O-A VISA either...unless I missed something!

[pookondee]

47 minutes ago, mosan said:

There is no news on the need to have insurance. And, by the way, it's not required for an O-A VISA either...unless I missed something!

There was a thread about mandatory Insurance earlier but it wasnt sensational enough to get steam up.

Something about charging every tourists 20 baht each for 1million death cover.

Nice numbers though. obviously worked out on the numbers that die per year..

 

If 39mill tourist=780million baht

if 400 dead tourists get 1mill claim thats still a handy profit

[rwill]

Who here has been forced to get medical insurance so far?

 

Also you can apply up to the age of 75 for the plans offered for the longstay visa.

 

I see so many posts here about how people are leaving because of being forced to get insurance.  But has this actually happened? 

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, wilailuk said:

They knew that when they moved here, so what´s the problem?

 

The whole article and headline is misleading, it has nothing to do with "tougher Immigration rules" - but everything to do with a strong THB and weak European currencies.

 

I get 13K THB  less pr. month now when I transfer my pension, compared to a few years ago, so the Danes living on the low old peoples pension only, minus tax, will have a hard time.

 

 

How do you think the Aussies get on with their piss-weak government pension and the inflated Bhat? 

[ExpatPH]

Thai authorities moot compulsory travel insurance for travellers

 

 

Can't find the other thread regarding compulsary health insurance for some NON O multiple entry visa.

Forced medical insurance seems to be on the way, for tourist and also expats.

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by ExpatPH

[FarFlungFalang]

3 minutes ago, ExpatPH said:

Thai authorities moot compulsory travel insurance for travellers

 

 

Can't find the other thread regarding compulsary health insurance for some NON O multiple entry visa.

Forced medical insurance seems to be on the way, for tourist and also expats.

 

Note that headline now has been changed by OP.

I think that was for 1 year Non O A visas applied for in home country and not for 1 years extensions of stay granted in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

23 hours ago, Snuller21 said:

I expect it is mostly because Thailand Visa are money-regulated as the only in SE Asia. Nobody have an income for a retirement visa anymore. Cambodia you pay just 125 USD, and you have 5 years. Laos you pay 150 USD for the same, and Philipines about the same, and Thailand you need to have 65000 Baht per month. That make a huge difference for a lot of people who only have their home countrys OAP. One huge mistake from Thailand.

 

???

 

There is no 5 year visa or visa extension in Cambodia. One year  retirement visa (the longest period you can get at one time) costs around $300.

 

I suspect you may have info for Laos & Philippine visas wrong as well.

 

But true that other than the $ for the visa you do not have to show any funds to stay in Cambodia, at least not at present.

[yogi100]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

Oh come off it, I've got plenty more than a million Baht in my Thai bank account for no particular reason and I'm not even 50 yet so I don't qualify for a retirement visa.

 

With the Baht going up like it is why would you not? If it changes direction, just move it somewhere else.....

While some of us may have substantial savings back home it does not necessarily mean we have 800K B we are willing to put in a Thai bank just because you are.

 

That's still a hell of a lot of money especially for some people who may not be as well off as you claim to be. To some of us in the real world even 400K B is considered a substantial amount of money.

 

Few people I know have the equivalent of 800K B in savings and of those that do few of them would be willing to put it in a Thai bank just for the privilege of being allowed to reside in the LOS until the next set of hoops that they'll be expected to jump through are placed in front of them..

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

Its clear that those on the margin will have a tougher time. I for one have no problem with the 65K baht/month. I think 40K baht/month married is tight but a Thai wife can make it work. I not a bar stool buddy or chasing skirts/shorts though. Those living on less are taking advantage of their hosts. I for one wont miss them.

 

While I agree with you re what constitutes an adequate income in Thailand these days,  I think your statement is rather harsh.

 

Bear in mind that many of the people who are here on incomes below the requirement came here many years ago at which time their fixed  incomes were more than adequate for a comfortable lifestyle, and by this point have put down deep roots and would find it difficult to repatriate.

 

In addition there are many -- Brits especially -- whose incomes were adequate just a year or two ago but have eroded due to rising baht and declining value of GBP.

 

Unusually rapid rises in cost of living in Thailand coupled with unusually rapid currency exchange changes have caught a lot of people short.

 

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, rwill said:

Who here has been forced to get medical insurance so far?

 

Also you can apply up to the age of 75 for the plans offered for the longstay visa.

 

I see so many posts here about how people are leaving because of being forced to get insurance.  But has this actually happened? 

 

There is no insurance requirement for extensions of stay so hardly likely.

 

There has been a requirement for the O-X visa for a while but not many people opt for that.  It has been announced that it will soon be made a requirement for the O-A visa but any consequence will manifest more in fewer people newly retiring here  than in people already here leaving.

 

I do think though that all the insurance talk has helped wake up some people already here to the facts that (1) they do not have access to free medical care here, not even in an emergency, and hospitals seriously  expect to be paid; (2) medical care can be quite costly, (3) as they age they are sure to need more and more medical services; and (4) health insurance at older ages is costly and, for people  with significant preexisting conditions, may be unobtainable.

 

And some people once they realize this and look at their options realize they are better off going home now, before a medical emergency strikes and while they are still able to arrange matters.

[madmen]

2 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I'm not a fan of "go fund me"

No worries there nobody is going to fund a dirty 70 year old pervert sexpat. 

Well that's how the west see expats in thailand and cant blame them really because its partially true 

 

Go fund me works for 20 year tourists wanting to go home and not for expats that will stay on

[mosan]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I think that was for 1 year Non O A visas applied for in home country and not for 1 years extensions of stay granted in Thailand.

As of right now, there is no insurance requirement for a Non O-A Visa applied for in ones home country.

[ExpatPH]

https://www.forecast-chart.com/usd-thailand-baht.html

 

[justin case]

I wonder who has access to these numbers ?  does immigration sell stuff like this ?

[aqua4]

14 minutes ago, justin case said:

I wonder who has access to these numbers ?  does immigration sell stuff like this ?

It should be available for free in a normal country. I would think they would release it in Thailand as well if you asked. 

[wilailuk]

3 hours ago, Artisi said:

How do you think the Aussies get on with their piss-weak government pension and the inflated Bhat? 

I don´t know and don´t care, we talk about Scandi´s here... 

 

????

[HauptmannUK]

Shortly before the 2016 Brexit referendum I got about ฿53 for 1 GBP.  Yesterday in Pattaya I saw ฿38.7 posted up.  i.e. that's around 73% of its June 2016 level.  Coupled with rising prices in Thailand, UK expats have seen around a 30% increase in costs over 3 years. Lots of things are now more expensive than back home.

An acquaintance of mine (12 years in Pattaya) became ill with a serious stomach disorder a couple of years ago. Hospital treatment and medication costs meant rapidly declining funds so early in 2018 he decided to go back to UK.

Sold his condo at a knock down price to raise funds for the move. Had to leave his Thai partner behind (not enough money).

His sister sorted him out with a bedsit back home.  Once in hospital back in UK he got a visit from the 'Overseas Patients Team' - they were wanting to see utility bills, rental contracts etc..  Anyway, in the end they accepted him as an NHS patient.

He got very depressed and was missing his partner. Sadly he passed away in October last year after about 9 months in UK.

I can forsee more expats getting in to trouble, especially those with a family.  One guy I know is on a pension but has a young family here. Pension is no longer really enough and he's talking about going back to the UK to get a job and send money back to the family. I told him to forget it. At 60+ its a non-starter..