Meeting with immigration about TM30 and the latest news about the petition

[Jaggg88]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

At least in Germany there is no requirement to register short term guests

We were there for 3 days.

[jackdd]

1 minute ago, Jaggg88 said:

We were there for 3 days.

This is short term. If somebody would stay several months the authorities might consider this person as living there and would require the person to be registered there (but this would be done in person at the "amphoe", not through some form)

I do of course not know why she wanted that you complete this form, but it is not for the authorities, i never heard of such a law and also tried to find anything on Google, but didn't find anything related to this.

[Jaggg88]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

This is short term. If somebody would stay several months the authorities might consider this person as living there and would require the person to be registered there (but this would be done in person at the "amphoe", not through some form)

I do of course not know why she wanted that you complete this form, but it is not for the authorities, i never heard of such a law and also tried to find anything on Google, but didn't find anything related to this.

Many laws in Germany are bylaws created at local authority level so this may be one from her local authority. It was in Frielassing near Salzburg.

[wobalt]

This is short term. If somebody would stay several months the authorities might consider this person as living there and would require the person to be registered there (but this would be done in person at the "amphoe", not through some form)
I do of course not know why she wanted that you complete this form, but it is not for the authorities, i never heard of such a law and also tried to find anything on Google, but didn't find anything related to this.

Such a law doesn’t exist in Germany


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Genericnic]

1 hour ago, Jaggg88 said:

Just so you all know this is not exclusive to Thailand or indeed foreign visitors. My wife and I have just had a holiday in Austria and Germany. In Austria we stayed in an hotel but in Germany we rented a flat via AirBnB and the pleasant young lady who owned the flat said we must complete this form, which she has to present to the authorities if requested. The form asked for our names, address, date of birth and passport number etc. My wife and I are EU citizens so this rule was not just for foreigners. I presume this is all about anti terrorism as undesirables can travel around using AirBnB without the authorities knowing.

No reporting requirements in the US either. Last summer my travel friend (ethnic Chinese and a Malaysian citizen) got a US tourist visa. We flew to the US and spent a month traveling around Southwest. Other than going through immigration at the airport, no one asked to see her passport or any other ID. 

 

David

[RBOP]

1 hour ago, thinkingman said:

Does yellow house book number appear on condo chanote, or is getting a yellow house book another wasted day at the land office? I have the chanote locked up in a fireproof safe in the US. Is the original required to get the yellow house book? Is my name transliterated to Thai as the last entry on the chanote?

No.

No.

Yes.

Yes.

[iamariva1957]

On 8/9/2019 at 8:10 AM, rumak said:

Is "rocking the boat"  any more successful in other countries ?   Well, I guess western style prisons are more user friendly.

At the very least we have the Right to scream from the rooftops... make calls to our reps... file with the media... ask for meetings or at least a supervisor. Yes in the states I can complain and get results...even from the DMV. Even had luck with State dept. Without fake smiles... but with logic... intelligence... and in a professional manner. Other than the former... all the rest seem to be beyond the local authority's capabilities. But if don't try... then you might as well throw in the towel and move to Nam. There they are more than happy to say "Stay as long as you like".

[SPREX]

And still TM30 (TOM YAM 30 GUN SOUP)
Here is what IMMIGRATION ACT, B.E. 2522 (1979) 1

A detail that is important for a reader since I quote:
"The provisions Section 37 of subsections  (3) and (4) do not apply to the cases referred to in Article 34" under the conditions prescribed by the Director General.
And who is there in section 34 and well here ....
Like what in the end the immigration has requirements not supported by order of Police and always refers to the act B.E
Surprising therefore a number of cases do not have to notify .... ????

Section 34: aliens entering the kingdom
;
1. Diplomatic or Consular Missions.
2. Performance of official duties.
3. Touring
4. Sporting
5. Business
6. Investing under the competition of the Ministries and Departments concerned.
7. Investing or other activities on the subject of investing in the provisions of the law on investment promotion.
8. Transit journey.
9. Being the person in charge of the crew of a conveyance coming to port, station, or area in the Kingdom.
10. Study or observation.
11. Mass media.
12. Missionary work under the competition of the Ministries and Ministries concerned.
13. Scientific research or training or teaching in the Research Institute in the Kingdom.
14. The practice of a skilled worker
15. Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations

 

Immigration_Act_B.E._2522 original Stat of Concil.pdf

[SPREX]

To be considered ... 

[jackdd]

15 minutes ago, SPREX said:

To be considered ... 

Yes, the original is wrong.

The "correction" in yellow is wrong as well.

[elviajero]

23 minutes ago, SPREX said:

And still TM30 (TOM YAM 30 GUN SOUP)
Here is what IMMIGRATION ACT, B.E. 2522 (1979) 1

A detail that is important for a reader since I quote:
"The provisions Section 37 of subsections  (3) and (4) do not apply to the cases referred to in Article 34" under the conditions prescribed by the Director General.
And who is there in section 34 and well here ....
Like what in the end the immigration has requirements not supported by order of Police and always refers to the act B.E
Surprising therefore a number of cases do not have to notify .... ????

Section 34: aliens entering the kingdom
;
1. Diplomatic or Consular Missions.
2. Performance of official duties.
3. Touring
4. Sporting
5. Business
6. Investing under the competition of the Ministries and Departments concerned.
7. Investing or other activities on the subject of investing in the provisions of the law on investment promotion.
8. Transit journey.
9. Being the person in charge of the crew of a conveyance coming to port, station, or area in the Kingdom.
10. Study or observation.
11. Mass media.
12. Missionary work under the competition of the Ministries and Ministries concerned.
13. Scientific research or training or teaching in the Research Institute in the Kingdom.
14. The practice of a skilled worker
15. Other activities as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations

 

Immigration_Act_B.E._2522 original Stat of Concil.pdf 1.26 MB · 0 downloads

You’re quoting conditions for Section 37 — nothing to do with TM.30 reports.

 

It is section 38 that requires owners, landlords etc to report using TM.30.

[LazySlipper]

On 8/8/2019 at 1:01 PM, Mavideol said:

many of us are property owners, why not use the property as the collateral and allow us to use the cash for daily living expenses,

 

 

As a foreigner you would be shooting yourself in the foot to use property as collateral, unless it is condos. Anything else is usually bought through dodgy companies with proxy Thai partners.

 

In a nutshell, I am assuming you are talking about condo owners....

[Time Traveller]

The Issan lawyer can beleive that the intention of the address reporting is about the millions of citizens of neighboring countries and all the fairytales he wants to.

But the facts are - and verified by the Barrow article -  that the ALL nationalities are the prime target of this regulation.  They want you under total surveillance all the time in Thailand. So get used to that.

As I said before, you could have a 1 billion signatures on a petition but no amount of protesting will get any thai goverment to change their laws for farangs. Even the lowest thai is above the highest farang in the eyes of Thai lawmakers. 

The only chance you have to get them to change this stupid reporting is to have Foreign diplomats lobby the thai government directly. People should be petiitioning their own embassies.

Or you could just pay the fine and let them guess where you have been.

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by Time Traveller

[Maestro]

15 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Why wouldn't your tenants inform you when they are leaving the country? And you don't have to submit the TM30 in person, you can use someone in your staff,anyone actually.

 

It is the foreigner's arrived at the residence that needs to be notified to immigration, not his departure.

[gunderhill]

17 hours ago, bud7 said:

I got the documents from my landlord, went and did my TM30, paid my 800 baht fine. It was chaos, but it's done. Today I called and asked the Immigration Officer which documents would be required of me each time I return home from visiting another province, if I want to report by mail. He basically said "All of them." Another TM30 form, another copy of the landlady's ID, another copy of the land deed, another copy of the rental agreement, and another copy of the "mop amnat" (so someone can do it in place of the landlady). On average, I would be doing this twice a month. Really?

Dont you  just get that warm  happy  feeling.....now imagine going in and out 2-3  times per  week?

[faraday]

1 minute ago, gunderhill said:

Dont you  just get that warm  happy  feeling.....now imagine going in and out 2-3  times per  week?

About average, I'd say. Oh, & extra on pay day.

[gunderhill]

Just now, faraday said:

About average, I'd say. Oh, & extra on pay day.

and  when arriving  back you stay in your condo in BKk for convenience, then the next day travel to your  house out of  town,

[gunderhill]

19 hours ago, Salerno said:

As I understand it, the money in the bank/monthly was to show you have enough easily accessible funds to live on ... you can't eat bricks and mortar. Given the amount of real estate that sits for a long time while trying to be sold there is no guarantee that if the proverbial hit the fan you could sell and access funds quickly.

but you could borrow  against it

[Martyp]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It is the foreigner's arrived at the residence that needs to be notified to immigration, not his departure.

I’ve currently informed my landlady that I will be visiting the US in September. My plan is to email her when I arrive in Bangkok and send her a photo of my TM6. The point of informing her is to give her a heads up about my arrival date so she can be ready to file the TM30 within the 24 hour filing window. She has a life too and sometimes is busy or traveling. She is good about getting back to me when I email her but occasionally it takes a week when she is traveling. If she wasn’t going to be available on my return I would make arrangements to go and self file. My landlord wants to do the online filing. Just because it is the landlords responsibility to file the TM30 doesn’t mean they have to be ready and available to you 24 hours a day. I think my landlord owns and rents several condos but she doesn’t have any staff to assist her.

[KhaoYai]

In addition to this thread, there are many others on the subject of TM28/TM30 and TM47. These are clearly issues and some people have genuine concerns.

 

I fully support Sebastian and his group in their attempts to get the Thai authorities to think again about the TM30 issue and have signed the petition.  However, it seems clear that the authorities want to 'keep tabs on us' and I think modification is the best that can be hoped for.

 

I've been giving these issues some thought and have an idea that may solve the problems.  There are many of you that will pour scorn on this and still moan. However, I think its clear that you are either going to have to accept some form of reporting or leave. So, whilst I very much welcome constructive criticism, I'm not going to get involved in replying/arguing with all you Negative Neddies out there.

 

It seems crazy to me that there are now 4 different systems of reporting where you are staying - TM6, TM28, TM30 and TM47.  Why not have one system, a system that is the responsibility of the foreigner? Bring all the reporting procedures into one and do that through a simple phone/computer application?

 

Yes, it would be your responsibility but many of you have that anyway in the form of the TM47 90 day report.  I am also aware that some people have problems with getting the online applications for TM30 & TM47 to work but that can be fixed. Let's just say for a moment that a simple application was available, one that worked and it was simply to register where you are staying.  You would only use it once when you enter the country and then each time you move. I am registered for online TM30 and I can tell you that it works and it only takes a couple of minutes. Those on long stay would use the application to subsitute for their 90 day report (as they should be able to do now).

 

You wouldn't have any fights with your landlord over who's responsibility it is to report you and you wouldn't have problems with absentee landlords.  Although I register TM30 online, that registration only covers the registered address. If I stay at my girlfriend's house or with friends, technically that address should also be registered before a report can be made. Realistically, who's going to do that? But if you don't, you are in breach of the current rules - and depending on which Immigration area you fall under, that may or may not be a problem.

 

If you could simply state that you are at XYZ address and do it in a few mouse clicks - surely that would end these current complicated and difficult to comply with, procedures. You would only do it if you stay away from your originally registered address and would do it again when you return.

 

I am aware that there may be a small number of people that don't have access to a smartphone or a computer but put that to one side for now - wouldn't it be easier if there was just one registration rather than 4?  There may be flaws but as far as I can see, both us as 'visitors' and the Thai authorities would find such a system far easier and each should be satisfied.

 

Unless you find spending 2 minutes on your phone/computer a particularly difficult task?

Edited August 11, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Max69xl]

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

It is the foreigner's arrived at the residence that needs to be notified to immigration, not his departure.

I repeat, why can't your tenant inform you he's leaving and when he's coming back? You didn't understand the question?

[Martyp]

21 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

In addition to this thread, there are many others on the subject of TM28/TM30 and TM47. These are clearly issues and some people have genuine concerns.

 

I fully support Sebastian and his group in their attempts to get the Thai authorities to think again about the TM30 issue and have signed the petition.  However, it seems clear that the authorities want to 'keep tabs on us' and I think modification is the best that can be hoped for.

 

I've been giving these issues some thought and have an idea that may solve the problems.  There are many of you that will pour scorn on this and still moan. However, I think its clear that you are either going to have to accept some form of reporting or leave. So, whilst I very much welcome constructive criticism, I'm not going to get involved in replying/arguing with all you Negative Neddies out there.

 

It seems crazy to me that there are now 4 different systems of reporting where you are staying - TM6, TM28, TM30 and TM47.  Why not have one system, a system that is the responsibility of the foreigner? Bring all the reporting procedures into one and do that through a simple phone/computer application?

 

Yes, it would be your responsibility but many of you have that anyway in the form of the TM47 90 day report.  I am also aware that some people have problems with getting the online applications for TM30 & TM47 to work but that can be fixed. Let's just say for a moment that a simple application was available, one that worked and it was simply to register where you are staying.  You would only use it once when you enter the country and then each time you move. I am registered for online TM30 and I can tell you that it works and it only takes a couple of minutes. Those on long stay would use the application to subsitute for their 90 day report (as they should be able to do now).

 

You wouldn't have any fights with your landlord over who's responsibility it is to report you and you wouldn't have problems with absentee landlords.  Although I register TM30 online, that registration only covers the registered address. If I stay at my girlfriend's house or with friends, technically that address should also be registered before a report can be made. Realistically, who's going to do that? But if you don't, you are in breach of the current rules - and depending on which Immigration area you fall under, that may or may not be a problem.

 

If you could simply state that you are at XYZ address and do it in a few mouse clicks - surely that would end these current complicated and difficult to comply with, procedures. You would only do it if you stay away from your originally registered address and would do it again when you return.

 

I am aware that there may be a small number of people that don't have access to a smartphone or a computer but put that to one side for now - wouldn't it be easier if there was just one registration rather than 4?  There may be flaws but as far as I can see, both us as 'visitors' and the Thai authorities would find such a system far easier and each should be satisfied.

 

Unless you find spending 2 minutes on your phone/computer a particularly difficult task?

I've thought the same thing. The only modification I would make is that those on 1 year extensions of stay or similar long stay permit should not have to file a TM30. If you qualify for a 1 one year extension then you have a permanent residence and that should be your default location.

[tassieman]

Yes, also applaud the great work of the OP ???? 

 

I am still little groggy this Sunday morning lol and if you can indulge in some clarification pls (and my apologies!)

 

>If you are not a tourist and arrive from abroad, even if articles 37 and 38 talk about 24 hours, they will give >you 7 days to register the TM30. Foreigners have to register TM30 only ONCE (and not tourists) and after, it >is the duty of the Thai landlord. If you leave in Thailand for a while and never registered TM30, you will be >fine as a foreigner. I believe it is between 800 to 2,000 baht.

 

I am in Thailand on a 6 month METV and ostensibly here as a tourist...does this passage quoted above mean I don't have to worry about TM30 registration at all as presumably the various hotels/resorts would be registering me after check in?

 

The issue is that I am mostly staying with my partner at her BKK residence and then going away periodically for a couple of nights staying at little resorts which I am not sure if they complete the required TM30 registration or not lol,

 

thanks again, TM

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, gunderhill said:

Dont you  just get that warm  happy  feeling.....now imagine going in and out 2-3  times per  week?

One solution is to move to a province where immigration don't require a new TM30 when leaving the province and coming back to same address. It sucks, but it works.

[KhaoYai]

4 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I've thought the same thing. The only modification I would make is that those on 1 year extensions of stay or similar long stay permit should not have to file a TM30. If you qualify for a 1 one year extension then you have a permanent residence and that should be your default location.

Yes but they still have to report if they stay somewhere else, and of course they have to report TM47.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by KhaoYai

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, tassieman said:

Yes, also applaud the great work of the OP ???? 

 

I am still little groggy this Sunday morning lol and if you can indulge in some clarification pls (and my apologies!)

 

>If you are not a tourist and arrive from abroad, even if articles 37 and 38 talk about 24 hours, they will give >you 7 days to register the TM30. Foreigners have to register TM30 only ONCE (and not tourists) and after, it >is the duty of the Thai landlord. If you leave in Thailand for a while and never registered TM30, you will be >fine as a foreigner. I believe it is between 800 to 2,000 baht.

 

I am in Thailand on a 6 month METV and ostensibly here as a tourist...does this passage quoted above mean I don't have to worry about TM30 registration at all as presumably the various hotels/resorts would be registering me after check in?

 

The issue is that I am mostly staying with my partner at her BKK residence and then going away periodically for a couple of nights staying at little resorts which I am not sure if they complete the required TM30 registration or not lol,

 

thanks again, TM

If you try to extend that 6 month visa they will probably ask for a TM30.

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, KhaoYai said:

Yes but they still have to report if the stay somewhere else, and of course they have to report TM47.

Yes. It's the TM30 and the 24 hour rule that has people upset. I'm OK with the other reporting and a working online/app would make that easier.

[Max69xl]

8 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The Issan lawyer can beleive that the intention of the address reporting is about the millions of citizens of neighboring countries and all the fairytales he wants to.

But the facts are - and verified by the Barrow article -  that the ALL nationalities are the prime target of this regulation.  They want you under total surveillance all the time in Thailand. So get used to that.

As I said before, you could have a 1 billion signatures on a petition but no amount of protesting will get any thai goverment to change their laws for farangs. Even the lowest thai is above the highest farang in the eyes of Thai lawmakers. 

The only chance you have to get them to change this stupid reporting is to have Foreign diplomats lobby the thai government directly. People should be petiitioning their own embassies.

Or you could just pay the fine and let them guess where you have been.

 

How do you think it works in,for example Vietnam? You can't stay where you want and they also know exactly where you are all the time. Now,in the USA, when you enter, you have to submit usernames on social medias. Thai governments loves paperwork. The sad part is that they don't realize that the TM30-form is not the smartest way to filter out the "bad guys". 

[KhaoYai]

Just now, Martyp said:

Yes. It's the TM30 and the 24 hour rule that has people upset. I'm OK with the other reporting and a working online/app would make that easier.

But that is making different rules for different purposes again. When its working, TM30 really only does take a couple of minutes. If the application that I am proposing could be made to work properly, you would simply report once as your original regsitration and only report again if you move. TM47 could be covered on the same application through a 'drop down' selection menu.  Anyway, I'm in the UK and its bloody late here ????.

[tassieman]

Thanks MartyP... I am off to a BKK hotel tonight and will check if they complete a TM30...after that will do the IO thing I guess and register at my partner's address. We often travel to her farm in Chachoengsao province (as renovating the old house). Wondering if the local cop shop (Phanom Sarakam) can do the registration also! cheers, TM