Thai Airways faces more bad news with bigger losses in Q2

[AloisAmrein]

The grounding of Thai Airways is just a matter of time. 2 years, 3 years? I boycott them since I did not get refund for my damaged bag in 2012. Without government money the grounding would have happened already.

Edited August 12, 2019 by AloisAmrein

[Nobbie49]

Nothing wrong with the lounge at Survanabhumi ,
free wifi, free food, free papers, free shower, free towels,  free drinks, free printer.  
I have up graded many times, and at their service centre always get sorted out, 
As now I have to cancel flights to Perth and change to Brisbane the change has not been a problem. 
Have no idea what you expect out of a lounge, or the service offered by the carrier, at lounges.

Nothing wrong with the lounge?? Food is ghastly and cold. The white wine is a “selection of wines” or if you want red then you have to drink Montclair. Both are the cheapest of the cheapest unpalatable cr?p. Last time we had the pleasant company of whaling kids running amok in the lounge. It’s free, yes, then again, who would pay for this?


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[DrTuner]

9 minutes ago, Nobbie49 said:

Nothing wrong with the lounge?? Food is ghastly and cold. The white wine is a “selection of wines” or if you want red then you have to drink Montclair. Both are the cheapest of the cheapest unpalatable cr?p. Last time we had the pleasant company of whaling kids running amok in the lounge. It’s free, yes, then again, who would pay for this?


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I think part of the problem at miracle lounges is that you can pay to get in. Too crowded and as you mentioned, not the best of food or beverage selections. First class ain't any better either.

[BobbyL]

I guess this is quite apt to re - post again with today's news.

 

Posted May 17

As has been mentioned many times before, they're an airline destined to fail. Poor service, older fleets and prices that now I don't even bother to ever check, nor does anyone else I know. 

 

However, the biggest factor in their decline will be not bringing in experienced foreign management to improve the airline. Look at Etihad, Qatar, Emirates etc who all brought in foreign expertise 10 - 20 years ago. That is their sort of competition, yet Thai Airways would never EVER do that. They have a bunch of boot lickers that have been there since the 90s and 80s. ''Solly, you no understan Thai cultuuurrr''.

 

I hope they go bust. 

[JAG]

9 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Apart from Thai, what has been the worst airline you have flown on? I think mine Indian Airlines if they are still in business, disgusting even first class 

Biman-Bangladesh. The interior smelt like the Campbletown curry house  the morning after a particularly busy night! 

 

It was cheap though.

 

More recently, BA. They were not cheap though!

Edited August 12, 2019 by JAG

[JAG]

1 hour ago, superal said:

Read somewhere that a direct flight was cheaper for the airlines to run as opposed to a stop over . So why are direct flights dearer ? 

Well, perhaps because they don't have to pay the airport fees for the stopover, plus the fuel costs of a second take off - I should imagine that take off and climb use a lot of fuel.

[MarkyM3]

In fairness, not all Thais think TG are great. My fiancee - who works in the airline business in Bangkok and deals with various companies - avoids them where possible. She has been flying with Qatar when visiting me in the UK recently. Saying that, she spent 10 years working overseas so has a more balanced view of them vs the competition. 

 

I have used EVA Air LHR-BKK, premium economy, for a long time. Plenty of Thais use it too - EVA employ a mixture of Taiwanese and Thai staff on this route.  I have no complaints apart from the slightly robotic service. If I fly 6 sectors in that then I get an upgrade from premium to business which is very nice and the Air Canada lounge at Heathrow is very good. Haven't used the lounge at BKK yet. 

 

Haven't flown TG from LHR since 2010 - I did not find the product or staff attitude good and I am not tempted to go back. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by MarkyM3

[madmen]

2 hours ago, Nobbie49 said:

Nothing wrong with the lounge?? Food is ghastly and cold. The white wine is a “selection of wines” or if you want red then you have to drink Montclair. Both are the cheapest of the cheapest unpalatable cr?p. Last time we had the pleasant company of whaling kids running amok in the lounge. It’s free, yes, then again, who would pay for this?


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semi warm small  cans of Thai beer and just a dreadful experience , the worst lounge experience in decades of bussines travel

[leeneeds]

3 hours ago, Nobbie49 said:

Nothing wrong with the lounge?? Food is ghastly and cold. The white wine is a “selection of wines” or if you want red then you have to drink Montclair. Both are the cheapest of the cheapest unpalatable cr?p. Last time we had the pleasant company of whaling kids running amok in the lounge. It’s free, yes, then again, who would pay for this?


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I don't drink so no comment on that one, food I have always had a choice of hot food, as  asking for or requesting heat would I think be met with, I can get for you sir,  as for kids whaling around, did you say something? regardless for me I have never had an issue with the lounge

[new2here]

I agree with the notion that having the government run the airline is a bad idea... as a whole, I don’t think state-run enterprises can truly compete with wholly privatized entities.

I don’t think having or running some business as a state enterprise is overtly bad, but I think that you can’t really have it both ways; under state control AND run as a true for profit entity.

I DO think fleet modernization is a wise use of capex funds... only because while there are quite a bit of mid-age, twin-engine aircraft out there (such as early production 773s or late production 772s) that can be had for much less than a new A350/B777X etc, I think the fuel economics make that a tough argument to make — plus you also have issues such as operational reliability and MX costs.

While no one likes to look at job cuts, as they are always unpopular, I would wonder what is the potential value that could be unlocked by spinning off their catering unit (much like AA and UA did) as well as their fueling division.

Both functions, to me, could potentially be done by contacted 3rd parties - at what I’d guess is a lower price point.

I also agree that fares must be re-examined.. you really can’t “cost cut” your way to long term, sustainable profitability... the revenue side has to be a part of it too.

Unfortunately, the TG network and BKK has their hub, doesn’t really lead to massive connection volume (like QR via DOH and EK via DXB as example).. and if it does, it’s mostly regional connectivity where LCC and ULCC competition exists and where I suspect premium cabin demand is more limited.

I do however agree with the idea of harnessing TGs Technical Department (maintenance) and turning them into a somewhat like LH Technik is today... given the relative lower labor costs and regional position, capacity (be that at DMK or UTP) is bet TG could be competitive - much like HAECO and their HAECO Xiamen operation.


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[Happy Grumpy]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

 

The Airline has been criticised for resisting changes to its business culture and upper management – long accused of cronyism, nepotism and inefficiencies.

I know a relatively senior manager. 

 

His house cost as much as a new Airbus 380.

 

Not really, cost 40m THB, which was a good bit above $1m at the time. 

[madmen]

5 hours ago, dbrenn said:

I've recently flown to Thailand using both Thai and Qantas. 

 

Thai wins hands down. Qantas has terrible scowling staff who wait over two hours to robotically feed you a single meal. 'Breakfast' was an inedible pastry in a box that resembled diseased female genitalia. See above. 

 

Thai isn't perfect but it's streets ahead of Qantas. 

I would go down on that after 7 glasses of wine

[new2here]

Well, perhaps because they don't have to pay the airport fees for the stopover, plus the fuel costs of a second take off - I should imagine that take off and climb use a lot of fuel.

Nonstops tend to be priced premium to connections to reflect the fact that the carrier can’t utilize connection traffic to increase load factor.

On a connection, you have multiple options to “sell” each leg...

Ex: SIN-NRT-LAX vs SIN-LAX

That could be be sold not only as a SINLAX but also as a single SINNRT or NRTLAX sector. So, from a revenue perspective, nonstops have the fewest fare construction options as opposed to connections. Cargo sales options open up as well.

Yes, adding a stop does add costs and cut down on utilization rates, but there are also ways that adding a stop can potentially drive down costs too. It is possible to cut crew costs by cutting the trip down from what might be a 5-6day on a SINLAX with 15+ bodies (essentially double crewed), into perhaps a single 3day SINNRT and a separate line 3day NRTLAX.. and in doing so, you would could probably cut the staffing level down from 15 augmented to maybe in the more traditional 12 range.

Some operational issues might also come into play.. rather than catering and carrying F&B for 15 hours (essentially 3 meals, plus associated drink and snacks) from the origin point, you could carry only 1 meal required on a SINNRT sector and then reprovision in NRT for the NRTLAX sector with meals #2 and #3..


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[flyingflops]

I flew Biman Bangladesch and Turkmenistan Airlines.

 

Was cheap and i am still alive! 

[White Christmas13]

17 hours ago, leeneeds said:

I fly Thai mostly myself, although the seats have somewhat lost their comfort by years of use, the direct flights offered is my main reason for choosing this Airline,  I found the meals good on my flights, 

The option to upgrade is something the airline should look at once the cabin doors are sealed, so many times I see the business section with only a few people, they could offer the upgrade for available seats after take off, and  after economy meal time, selling those seats for an extra 2 -300 dollars for the rest of a flight it would be something I would take up for the extra comfort.

 

Yes I do use Thai myself the reason is I can get a non stop flight from Perth

to Bangkok which takes only about 7 hours any other airline will stop at least

ones or twice so the travel time can be up to 18 hours (including waiting time

at the airports) the food I got served was tasty and of course included in the

price and free drinks and my return ticket was only about $100 more than the

cheapest budged airline where you have to buy your food and drinks and pay

extra for baggage so at the end of the day it works out the same price and

faster yes the planes are not new from Perth they use Airbus 330 and not

Boeing 747 I will use Thai again in December

[Davo369]

2 hours ago, new2here said:

 

Nonstops tend to be priced premium to connections to reflect the fact that the carrier can’t utilize connection traffic to increase load factor.

On a connection, you have multiple options to “sell” each leg...

Ex: SIN-NRT-LAX vs SIN-LAX

That could be be sold not only as a SINLAX but also as a single SINNRT or NRTLAX sector. So, from a revenue perspective, nonstops have the fewest fare construction options as opposed to connections. Cargo sales options open up as well.

Yes, adding a stop does add costs and cut down on utilization rates, but there are also ways that adding a stop can potentially drive down costs too. It is possible to cut crew costs by cutting the trip down from what might be a 5-6day on a SINLAX with 15+ bodies (essentially double crewed), into perhaps a single 3day SINNRT and a separate line 3day NRTLAX.. and in doing so, you would could probably cut the staffing level down from 15 augmented to maybe in the more traditional 12 range.

Some operational issues might also come into play.. rather than catering and carrying F&B for 15 hours (essentially 3 meals, plus associated drink and snacks) from the origin point, you could carry only 1 meal required on a SINNRT sector and then reprovision in NRT for the NRTLAX sector with meals #2 and #3..


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????????????

[madmen]

6 hours ago, JAG said:

Well, perhaps because they don't have to pay the airport fees for the stopover, plus the fuel costs of a second take off - I should imagine that take off and climb use a lot of fuel.

 the connecting flight Will take on the next load of pax More than makes up for fuel 

[norfolkandchance]

Thai Airways. Rome-Bangkok return. Direct. €485.19. Do for me.

[Sydebolle]

The answer is not new planes.

The answer is what went wrong after 1992; until then TG was a prime carrier and a real proud flag ship of the Kingdom. Subsequent involvement of unqualified governments, marred with appointed decision makers who were enjoying sipping champagne in first class rather than concentrating on business. 

Darwin said it; not the best, fastest, cleverest, richest but the most flexible and adaptable will win. Meanwhile this dinosaur should be stripped down to basics and start all over new again with professional, externally sourced expert without political intentions or bottom-kissing abilities solely interested in lining pockets. 

The accrued losses are nothing short of staggering - but who am I to comment! 

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

18 hours ago, SpanishExpat said:

Used to fly TG F frequently from FRA and MUC( when they still offered the 744 from there) . Got worse and worse. On the nightflight back the FA seriously asked my why I wanna eat at 1am and that I better should sleep.????There‘s a reasons why TG offers nearly year-round cheap fares from Europe now . 

They used to be great in terms of hospitality and the hard product was ok. Prefer to take the Q-Suites with QR now. Overall better experience and I save money ????

I'm impressed with how smooth the A380 is on takeoff and landing but there's something special about first class in the rattling nose of the 747.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Oliver Holzerfilled

[geno2]

only airline to buy 6 airbus 380’s ? absurd, they are mostly sitting on the tarmac. such an wasteful oversight . 

[PatOngo]

2 minutes ago, geno2 said:

only airline to buy 6 airbus 380’s ? absurd, they are mostly sitting on the tarmac. such an wasteful oversight . 

I'm sure some are smiling......all the way to their offshore accounts!

[madmen]

I'm impressed with how smooth the A380 is on takeoff and landing but there's something special about first class in the rattling nose of the 747.

That's surprising. We are not talking the old jumbo but the latest generation and they defiantly don't rattle. Must have been a one off

[elgenon]

On 8/12/2019 at 5:30 AM, Cadbury said:

It is a state run enterprise of which the government owns 51%. That should give the PM the opportunity to take control of it like he does just about everything else.

He has management skills like no other and if anyone can bring it back from the edge of bankruptcy he is the one to do it.....or more likely, put it out of it's misery completely. 

I rode the state railway once. Had to fight with the roaches for seat space. When I tried to sleep I felt one on my lip. A retired pilot friend of mine said Thais get hired for Thai Air because of who they know.

[Peterphuket]

12 hours ago, norfolkandchance said:

Thai Airways. Rome-Bangkok return. Direct. €485.19. Do for me.

You are a lucky guy, look what I pay last time BKK-BRU-BKK

 

 

[Cadbury]

16 minutes ago, elgenon said:

I rode the state railway once. Had to fight with the roaches for seat space. When I tried to sleep I felt one on my lip. A retired pilot friend of mine said Thais get hired for Thai Air because of who they know.

And for some who they sleep with.

[Peterphuket]

And it is the last time for me with Thai airways, there are plenty of other options, if necessary with an extra stop.

[friend of siam]

On 8/12/2019 at 11:14 AM, emptypockets said:

Looks like they've woken up to the pissed bogans.

well I have the best idea about howto bring TA into the winning zone again... without changing anything on their performance prices or fleet no investment or management change needed...because it is 51 percent government this will be easy and a no brainer ( means the perfect solution for thai management )..so sit down and listen this advise is free...charge every incoming flights from competetive airlines a 100 dollars a seat thai airways support tax...( regardless if a seat is empty or not )..from this 100 bucks you send 50 dollars straight to the TA accounts and the other 50 dollars you keep in your account for your troubles and expenses .. understand ????! well I can repeat if this was to complicated... see this is the perfect solution perfect for all a win win win situation thai style..the happy customers of all the other airlines who will pay this little extra on their tickets will receive a little " I am a proud supporter / raaak thai mak mak " sticker when they come to immigration...this is a usa marketing gag will make feel customer great and special......but if u dont want you can drop this part of my plan...

Edited August 13, 2019 by friend of siam

[Eric Loh]

The whole global aviation universe knows the problem of Thai Airways except the Thai government. Too much state control and too many board members resulting in delayed and inefficient decision making. 

 

http://bakertilly.co.th/insights/thai-airways-drastic-action-required/

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

5 hours ago, madmen said:

10 hours ago, Oliver Holzerfilled said:

I'm impressed with how smooth the A380 is on takeoff and landing but there's something special about first class in the rattling nose of the 747.

That's surprising. We are not talking the old jumbo but the latest generation and they defiantly don't rattle. Must have been a one off

They absolutely rattle including the coat storage doors at the front swinging open on one flight if not others.  Ive taken at least 10 videos of takeoffs and landings on flights so i know my memory is not failing.  No comparison with the A380.