Anyone using an Echo Dot?

[giddyup]

A friend from the US brought me one over, but they are available from Amazon. I love this thing, I have it connected to my stereo so I just ask Alexa to play whatever internet radio station I want, at present it's Soma FM Left Coast 70's, or I can ask Alexa any general knowledge question, mathematics, geography, read a book, etc, etc.

[johng]

You know of course  that its constantly listing to everything and connected to the internet which  means someone  on the internet could possibly be hearing everything that Alexa hears

https://www.the-ambient.com/features/weird-ways-echo-can-be-hacked-how-to-stop-it-231

 

No I don't use one.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, johng said:

You know of course  that its constantly listing to everything and connected to the internet which  means someone  on the internet could possibly be hearing everything that Alexa hears

https://www.the-ambient.com/features/weird-ways-echo-can-be-hacked-how-to-stop-it-231

 

No I don't use one.

Oops! I shouldn't have mentioned where I buried the gold.

[johng]

Just now, giddyup said:

Oops! I shouldn't have mentioned where I buried the gold.

Too late now  every gold digger on the net knows ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, johng said:

You know of course  that its constantly listing to everything and connected to the internet which  means someone  on the internet could possibly be hearing everything that Alexa hears

https://www.the-ambient.com/features/weird-ways-echo-can-be-hacked-how-to-stop-it-231

 

No I don't use one.

 

Amazon just added a feature update to the Alexa software that gives the user the option to NOT allow any human review of recorded Alexa content. (Amazon had gotten bad press lately when it was revealed that Amazon staff were listening to a tiny portion of Alexa recorded content to test and evaluate how well the system recognizes users' requests.)

 

Also, within the Alexa system, the user can delete their request history any time they choose.

 

I like the Alexa devices, have a couple Echo Dots at home, and use them all the time, generally in exactly the manner described by the OP, which is to serve as a voice command interface for playing music via a connected stereo or Bluetooth speaker.

 

They're also handy as a voice command system for doing things like setting alarms or reminders.... when cooking, doing the laundry, etc etc...

 

And, they work perfectly fine here -- no issues when connecting to a Thai IP address, though some services you might use with the Alexa device might themselves require a non-Thai IP address.

 

PS - In the article you posted above, the way in which the eavesdropping occurred was thru a physical hack to the device itself that involved soldering and other modifications on an early model, and is something no longer possible on later models.

 

 

Quote

 

The small print is that the rubber bottom and external access connection is only present on the first edition Echos as sold in 2015 and 2016. Later models don’t have that feature.

Barnes’s Echo might have looked a bit suspicious with all those wires sticking out of it but there’s plenty of scope for fine tuning the hack to keep all the bits and pieces invisible.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[giddyup]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

And, they work perfectly fine here -- no issues when connecting to a Thai IP address, though some services you might use with the Alexa device might themselves require a non-Thai IP address.

 

  One thing I can't do is request a particular song, but with an unlimited choice of music, literally thousand of stations playing any style of music I want, that's no big concern.

Edited August 16, 2019 by giddyup

[johng]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

serve as a voice command interface

I understand and like the idea of being able to use voice commands to control  things..just don't like the "cloud server" bit.

maybe there is a workaround.

https://forums.developer.amazon.com/questions/57883/i-want-to-integrate-alexa-into-my-own-non-cloud-ba.html

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/5enq9j/is_there_a_home_server_version_of_ok/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, giddyup said:

  One thing I can't do is request a particular song, but with an unlimited choice of music, literally thousand of stations playing any style of music I want, that's no big concern.

 

You certainly can request and get a specific song via the Echo devices.... But, you need to have an available music service/subscription that allows you to do that.

 

Amazon Music supports that for Amazon Prime members, either with a limited music library for regular subscribers, or with a full music library for those who pay monthly for Amazon Music. You can also do it with a Pandora account from the U.S. And I believe you also can do with via Spotify, But generally, you have to set up those service, i.e., link them to your Alexa device using either an Alexa skill or within the Alexa music player settings.

 

[losworld]

I believe google assistant can do similar?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, there's another very cool service for Alexa that allows you to use it to play ANY of the digital music you may have stored at home on a PC, including requesting by artist, album, song etc....

 

https://www.mymediaalexa.com/

 

It works great. I use it all the time. Basic use is a whopping $5 per year fee.

 

"Alexa, ask MyMedia to play..."

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, losworld said:

I believe google assistant can do similar?

 

It has some of the same features, but AFAIK, has never really worked as well at music playing as Alexa/Echo devices has.

 

One of the big drawbacks I've encountered is I have tons of my own digital music stored/uploaded in my own Google Play Music account, which allows you to keep and store tens of thousands of songs for free.

 

There was a time when Google Assistant somewhat allowed you to request to play your own music via Google Play Music. But then later, that seemed to stop working and I think Google supposedly restricted that playback feature to PAYING Google Music subscribers....  So I basically gave up on that, and haven't monkeyed with it lately.

 

[johng]

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

the way in which the eavesdropping occurred was thru a physical hack

errrrrr yes but.....

29 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Amazon just added a feature update to the Alexa software that gives the user the option to NOT allow any human review of recorded Alexa content. (Amazon had gotten bad press lately when it was revealed that Amazon staff were listening to a tiny portion of Alexa recorded content to test and evaluate how well the system recognizes users' requests.)

 

[CGW]

I must be special ???? 

I obviously have superior time management skills to most and am able to do all the mundane tasks quite easily and efficiently that a "machine" can do ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, CGW said:

I must be special ???? 

I obviously have superior time management skills to most and am able to do all the mundane tasks quite easily and efficiently that a "machine" can do ????

 

You can play back basically any song in the world of digital music in a matter of 2 seconds just by asking for it by name?  You must be very talented!  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

8 minutes ago, johng said:

errrrrr yes but.....

 

 

The audio/data that gets stored on Amazon's servers is what you say or ask for AFTER you say, "ALEXA....."  It's not like there's a 24/7 recording running of all audio in the room.

 

So, yes, somewhere on the Amazon's network of servers, there's probably recordings of me saying...

 

Alexa, play Born to Run by Bruce Springsteen...

 

or...

 

Alexa, set an alarm for 30 minutes....

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You certainly can request and get a specific song via the Echo devices.... But, you need to have an available music service/subscription that allows you to do that.

 

Amazon Music supports that for Amazon Prime members, either with a limited music library for regular subscribers, or with a full music library for those who pay monthly for Amazon Music. You can also do it with a Pandora account from the U.S. And I believe you also can do with via Spotify, But generally, you have to set up those service, i.e., link them to your Alexa device using either an Alexa skill or within the Alexa music player settings.

 

 

Here's where you need to set up those kinds of things, in the Alexa app Settings menu, and then under Music...

 

 

 

[KittenKong]

I have an Echo Dot. For me speaker quality is only good enough to listen to speech radio, and for that it is fine. I like that I can ask Alexa to play particular BBC radio podcasts - like the 6pm Radio 4 news - without having to put my glasses on or turn the light on at night. I like the alarm/timer function. I like that it can give me the weather forecast, and traffic information. But apart from that I dont use it much.

 

I also have Google Assistant on my phone, and I find that about as useful as the Dot except that the BBC has removed their content from Google Assistant and so even that doesn't work. Voice recognition is often quite poor and overall it certainly isn't good enough to entice me into buying a Google Home Mini.

 

I am annoyed that neither of these devices has proper DLNA support as in theory it should be entirely possible for either device to start particular music tracks playing from my NAS (PC) on my DLNA amp. But that function has been deliberately disabled.

 

I know that I could use the MyAlexaMedia controller mentioned, but that is an appalling kludge. The function should be built-in.

 

I am also annoyed that both devices stop responding to voice input very rapidly after just a very short pause. This makes them useless for note making, which is something I would sometimes like to do.

 

So I would say that both are very much a work in progress.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, losworld said:

I believe google assistant can do similar?

 

Here's a recent article that updates on Google Assistant/Google Home's music playing capabilities. It seems to say that I said above remains correct, in that you cannot play your own uploaded Google Play digital music thru a free Google Play account using Google Home unless the songs are part of a playlist you've created.

 

Quote

Google Home will not find and play audio within Google Play Music without a subscription, but it will play your saved playlists. If you have a playlist called ‘Summer 2018’, for example, you say “Okay Google, Play Summer 2018.”

 

However, there are other ways to play digital music for free using Google Home:
 

Quote

 

last summer Google added support for Deezer Premium and Spotify Free, and in April 2019 it added free (ad-supported) YouTube Music. You can now select these options within the Google Home app by clicking on the Account tab, then choosing Settings, Services, Music.

 

 

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/how-to/digital-home/play-music-google-home-free-3659075/

 

AFAIK, not surprisingly....

--You can't play Amazon Music thru Google Home, and

--You can't play Google Music thru Alexa...

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[watcharacters]

45 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You can play back basically any song in the world of digital music in a matter of 2 seconds just by asking for it by name?  You must be very talented!  

 

He indicates "he's special".

 

[CGW]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You must be very talented!  

Thank you, & you Sir, are to be commended for your powers of observation 

[Jonah Tenner]

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have a Google Home speaker at home, which pretty much had been sitting on the shelf unused after I had originally set it up... So in the wake of this thread, I decided to sit down yesterday and try to resolve the problems I'd been having in getting it to work decently well, which I finally managed to do yesterday.

 

Verdict - For me, the Amazon Dot and Echo devices are a WHOLE LOT easier to set up and use compared to the various Google Home devices. I don't just mean the initial set-up, but the entire process of trying to get each respective device properly configured and connected to do the things a typical user might want to do.

 

For me, one of the problems with the Google devices is a goodly portion of their functionality appears related to opening up the Google account you set up the device with to all kinds of different Google account tracking and information recording elements -- which I usually try to keep turned off on my Google accounts. Because I don't need Google location tracking where I'm located, what I'm doing, what I'm buying, what I'm doing online, etc etc.

 

That, and, for me, the whole Google Home app interface is confusing and complicated, as it can emcompass different devices in your home, not just a Google Home speaker, but also things like Android TVs, Chromecast devices, etc. So once you get into the app, there are broad settings and then individual device specific settings, and even potentially multiple Google accounts on different devices. And it all gets to be a bit of a swamp, at least for me.

 

Lastly, in noodling around yesterday, I still found A LOT of Google Home device users complaining in 2019 that they still can't get their devices to play their own music that they've uploaded to their Google Play Music accounts, which ought to be one of the core functions of the device. Whereas in contrast, as I posted above, there's a $5 a year Amazon skill that allows Dot/Echo devices to stream by voice command all the music files stored on your home network. Even without all the other issues, the music playback issue would be the decider for me.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:00 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, there's another very cool service for Alexa that allows you to use it to play ANY of the digital music you may have stored at home on a PC, including requesting by artist, album, song etc....

 

https://www.mymediaalexa.com/

 

It works great. I use it all the time. Basic use is a whopping $5 per year fee.

 

"Alexa, ask MyMedia to play..."

 

You can also install a Plex Media Server on your computer and then add the Plex skill to Alexa.  It will stream all your music and video to compatible devices.  There is no fee associated with either software.  Of course your computer needs to be running when you want it to stream to your Alexa device.

 

I just got my Plex server set up and it does work.  I was disappointed because Plex will not deliver video to an Amazon Show device, only audio.  I will be moving my server off my iMac and onto a headless Raspberry Pi that will also host a Pi-Hole ad blocker and consume only about 10W.  If I also decide to go with a home built router I may use an ESPRESSObin board instead of a Pi for all 3 low load functions.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, gamb00ler said:

You can also install a Plex Media Server on your computer and then add the Plex skill to Alexa. 

 

Does the Plex skill for Alexa allow you to verbally request and then have played hands-free songs / albums / music by an artist stored somewhere on your home network devices?

[gamb00ler]

9 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Does the Plex skill for Alexa allow you to verbally request and then have played hands-free songs / albums / music by an artist stored somewhere on your home network devices?

Yes.  I have successfully done so for music on an Amazon Show8, but have not tried all the different types of media requests as of yet.  I have also added the Plex link to my LG smart TV but haven't tested many of the capabilities yet.  My TV does show the list of movies from my server and I can use the TV "mouse" to select them.

 

EDIT: unfortunately Plex does NOT support streaming video to an Amazon Show device and doesn't yet plan on adding that functionality.

 

See these two websites:

http://www.aftvnews.com/all-the-voice-commands-understood-by-the-plex-alexa-skill/

https://support.plex.tv/articles/236324808-alexa-voice-commands/

 

I believe the Plex developers are still improving the products involved.  There is also an active Plex Alexa discussion forum but I don't have the link handy.

Edited January 10, 2020 by gamb00ler
additional info

[SooKee]

FWIW, my thoughts on my use of Google Home / Assistant.

 

I was very impressed with my 2 Google Home at first but after a year of use I'm somewhat underwhelmed with TBH, it feels to me still VERY much like a work in progress and I think a lot of that might be down to the (IMHO terrible) Assistant app and its GUI. It's great for the things it does on its own (e.g. when it doesn't need to interact with other devices / apps) and pretty good when interacting with other devices (e.g. for home control) when it's all working but you can spend hours messing around with the damn thing if something makes it all go to rats.

I have numerous devices linked to it including:

• Shield TV which will turn on /off my TV, sound bar and AIS playbox when I use Google Home to turn it on / off either as part of a routine or as a single command.  
• Yeelight Smart Lights, 
• Xiaomi Air Purifier, 
• Air Con and fan (both of which are controlled by a Broadlink RM Mini for IR control - a good concept but hampered by absolute garbage software, unreliable servers and a bloody awful GUI that is a BITCH to set up, the one in the bedroom never survived being thrown at the wall after it kept going offline so I'm now down to one with zero intention of buying another).

 

On their own I frequently use the Homes to:

• Set alarms and timers
• Add things to Shopping and other lists on Google Keep
• Read me the news and such like
• Set Reminders
• Remember things (I have a habit of thinking or great places to keep things, until it comes time to remember where they are!!)
• Play music from Spotify (though I MUCH prefer to use the Spotify app on the phone and select what I want then select Google Home as a cast device (or the Shield if I want it to use the sound bar that the TV is connected to) rather than the somewhat random response you get by just telling Google Home to play X from Spotify.  The more words and context you put into a sentence the more you increase the likelihood of error.
• Playing podcasts from Pocket Casts, again using the phone app to fire it up and then just selecting whichever of the cast devices I want it to use.  You have to do this with Google Home as, unlike with Alexa, Pocket Casts is not well supported as they cannot access most of Google's locked down APIs

 

I have quite a large music collection on Plex (which I also use for my DVD collection that I converted to digital) but find I hardly ever listen to it as it's all available on Spotify pretty much.  If I do want to play my own music I just use Plex on the Shield or Mi Box as they are connected to better speakers, as such, I've not researched the playing of my own music on Home / Alexa, I might get round to it one day.

 

It's quite useful to be able to play Netflix etc from it on the TV by voice and it mutes any speakers it's using when you give commands.  When the Shield gets updated though, and I think this is due to the Assistant and it's use of your Google account, it's a PITA to basically reset the Shield and then unlink it and set it all up again, including the routines it features in.  I mean, seriously?  It's as if once it's updated Assistant is seeing an older device that it's no longer connected to.  It really did take my hours, days in fact, of piddling around trying to get to the bottom of that one.  One day working fine, next, not!

In terms of home control I just really find it useful at night when going to bed rather than having to pick up 10 different remotes. For that 'routine' it will:

• Turn off the TV
• Turn off the Shield TV
• Turn off AIS Playbox
• Turn off the sound bar
• Turn off the air filter
• Turn off the air con
• Turn of two of the living room lights
• Set one table lamp to 10% power and warm white
• Turn on the bedside lamps
• Remind me of any appointments the next day
• Set its own volume to 30% (to avoid waking everyone up when it answers me in the morning)

For home control when it's working it's great but every now and then it, or various servers the services connect to go down, especially if there's a brief power outage. Then you can spend a long time getting it all working and synced again.

I've always thought the Google Assistant app to be a mess with screens and settings all over the place. I do however prefer (ish) the slightly more conversational nature of Google's interaction rather than the more script based approach of Alexa. I haven't tried Alexa yet though so that might be less of a problem than I think.  I chose Home over Alexa originally though mainly because of the ability to cast direct to Home devices from my phone without the need to use an intermediary app or faff around turning on bluetooth.  I don't use all the gimmick things with it like ask me this, ask me that which I kinda feel are pretty pointless and just used to bulk out the list to make the device sound more useful than it is.  I do think they are worth it though, even just as alarm / radios for bedside use and the timer, reminder, shopping list and cast stuff.

I far prefer the look of the Alexa app to Assistant however and it does have much better integration with some services I use (Pocket Casts has an Alexa skill so you can just tell it to resume your 'Up Next' list). Sometimes I do decide to upgrade the speaker I'm listening on and can tell the Home Mini to "play this on the Shield" and it will, instantly, I'm not sure if the Echo can.  Google Home can also add items to my shopping list in Google Keep on my phone which I find useful. I've yet to look at how Alexa handles that, I don't really want to have to use yet another list app on my phone just because a smart home device can't integrate with what I use daily. The shopping list I find really useful to be able add items while I'm cooking as they run out or whatever rather than hoping to remember when I open my shopping again in 2 hours or 2 days.

One final downside with the Google Home is that it seems to be stone deaf at times! This is probably not helped by the mic placement in the top of the device where dust can settle through the fabric covering requiring a good hard blow to clear it at times. Even then it's still bloody deaf! The Echo has a solid top with side placed mics so it shouldn't clog (I hope), I have friends who have also said that their Echo devices pick up voice far more readily than their Google Home Mini.

I have an Echo on order to see if using that in the living room will be less frustrating, provided I don't find the device hampers me from doing things, nothing to stop me leaving the Home connected of course. I'm always interested in finding better / different ways to do X but what I have absolutely ZERO interest in is folks who adopt the approach of "I don't need to that therefore you shouldn't need to either".  

So, now I use them mostly as timers, setting reminders, playing podcasts or whatever from Pocket Casts, shopping lists (through Google Keep), listening to the news and running the various routines when I wake up, am on the way home, or going to bed (the bedside one is great for not having to piddle around setting alarms and for playing rain / storm sounds when we sleep). They are still to a degree a work in progress in my view and some of the devices that could be very useful for home automation (looking at you Broadlink) really are pretty abysmal in terms of set up, use and user interface.  On the IR control front, until there more competition and there is a device that uses quality components and construction and has a well designed UI with EASY set up, it's way to nerdy and difficult to me classed as mainstream IMO and goes down far too frequently. The current devices are a real POS as far as I'm concerned, the review sites are also awash with just how garbage these devices are.  I was actually quite surprised as to just how little (like none) competition there is in this area given how rubbish Broadlink are, the Harmony Hub is sort of an alternative but there issues with that and some of the devices I use making it kinda pricey for the limited amount of things I could do with it.

I look forward to trying the Echo Dot mainly because Google Assistant seems to be getting deafer and more stupid as time goes on. I'm kinda expecting it to be just as half baked as Google Home so if it IS any better I'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm pretty meh about the whole Smart Home concept so it might take some time before I can be bothered to get it all configured, but I'm even expecting that part will be far less clunky than the Google experience. 

Edited January 31, 2020 by SooKee

[Langsuan Man]

One of the major disadvantages of Google Home is the lack of 220 Volt devices available here in Thailand, and the expense of those that are 220 V ready

 

In the US my Google Home synced with my Phillips Hue devices,  provides me with full house control of my lights and saved me thousands of dollars instead of re-wiring.  I bought a house in the US in which the watchword for the "re-modeler" was cheap.

 

There is not one two way switch in the whole house.  For instance, to turn on the kitchen light if you are in the bedroom you would have to walk through three dark rooms to get to the kitchen light.  Problem solved when lying in bed I just say: OK Google,  turn on the kitchen lights 

[ThaiBunny]

I mostly use Google Home for its built-in "Good morning" response, which sets me up for the day. When I'm in Australia I can get it to add things to my Woolworths supermarket shopping list but I find it more trouble than it's worth as I inevitably have to go into the phone App to tidy up what's been put there. Otherwise "Hey Google, what's the temperature" or "Hey Google, will it rain today?" are marginally useful (or I could just look at my phone). I read a very interesting commentary the other day about "smart home" hardware in the context of the number of manufacturers discontinuing products or, especially, not updating earlier versions. I'm reconsidering my plan to replace the condo security for my apartment with a smart lock etc.

Edited January 31, 2020 by ThaiBunny