Why so much negativity?

[Iren1cuss]

First I would like to say hello to everyone in this forum. I've been a lurker for some time and even though the content of my thread can be constituted as a critique, I've found the information on these forums invaluable, so thanks to everyone for that.

 

After reading some posts I'm just baffled at the amount of negativity around the topic of visiting/moving to Thailand in recent times. Granted, I've only been there twice and as a vacation, but I'm considering moving there(not full time but maybe 3 to 6 months each year) in a couple of years after having a passive income that allows me to live anywhere(I've worked hard to be independent and having my own company). The thing is, I loved Thailand, the vistas, the food, the culture and traditions, the weather(I'm from a very distant and cold country in South America), and I find people to be friendlier than in western countries. There is a sense of adventure that I haven't felt in other countries I've visited. Even though I have a good life in my home country I just can't seem to find any joy here anymore. 

 

Back to my original question. Has it always been like this? I was so pumped about the idea of spending more time in Thailand but the amount of negativity surrounding the idea on these forums has me thinking twice about it. Maybe that's a  good thing, who knows. Some genuine input would be really helpful. Thanks!
 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Iren1cuss

[CharlieH]

The majority of negativity stem from the ability or lack thereof to meet the retirement visa requirements due to recent changes.

That doesn't apply in your circumstances so shouldn't effect your plans at all. ????

 

Enjoy !

 

[madmen]

The negativity is coming from mostly the same 20 posters , I could name them all but I have no desire in getting (snip)

Sadly those who can suddenly no longer meet visa requirements due to having no money even after a lifetime of work are making the most noise but that's bitterness for you

[Puchaiyank]

It is not about what others think of Thailand...it is what YOU think!

 

Each person weighs the pros and cons from time to time...when the cons consistently out weigh the pros...then you start to here some unhappy comments.

 

In the end...it is what you make of your stay in Thailand that really matters...

 

Congrads, BTW, on becoming economically independent...kudos to you!

[NCC1701A]

18 minutes ago, Iren1cuss said:

Back to my original question. Has it always been like this? I was so pumped about the idea of spending more time in Thailand but the amount of negativity surrounding the idea on these forums has me thinking twice about it. Maybe that's a  good thing, who knows. Some genuine input would be really helpful. Thanks!

there is nothing wrong with Thailand. i just had a great experience with the immigration office yesterday. if you have some money and common sense you will be fine. i am 64 and and having the time of my life. it is really amazing.

 

do your research and don't think in absolutes. I live in Hua Hin and move around the country on my motorcycle. If you are not tied down you can live anywhere. And spend some time in Vietnam as well.

 

Make sure you dress nicely at immigration and the bank, learn about Thai culture and respect it.

 

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

OP, can you afford health insurance ?

If not, don't even concider Thailand for a long term stay.

If yes, go for it.

[flyingtlger]

It seems like a lot of the negativity comes from old timers that compare the "back in the day" mentality with present day reality.

Everything changes.  The only thing constant in life is "Change".

Thailand was slow in changing in many ways but has rapidly, if not furiously, changed more than it ever has in the last few years.

Gotta roll with the punches.  Learn to adapt or move on to greener pastures or where ever you feel more comfortable.....

 

[Matzzon]

There is nothing wrong with Thailand. Just a lot of bitter people that have to go home due to that they have started to enforce the rules and regulations that has always been there.

[AlexRich]

I don’t think you will have any issues arriving as a tourist and spending three months here, but you might get stopped by immigration if you try to extend that to half of the year. It’s just not as easy to do that anymore. So for 3 months you are fine. 

 

The negativity has ramped up due to a number issues, like a strong Baht and it’s impact on cost of living as well as the stricter retirement rules. It’s not all money though, the TM30 is a hassle that makes people feel like they are out of prison on bail and need to be monitored. If a Thai visits Europe or the US they are not required to do so. Some of the “negativity” has legitimacy. 

[Skallywag]

2 hours ago, Iren1cuss said:

The thing is, I loved Thailand, the vistas, the food, the culture and traditions, the weather ...... I have a good life in my home country I just can't seem to find any joy here anymore. 

If by "joy" you mean women, then yes, Thailand is for you!  ????

[jastheace]

negativity for some seems to be a disease, without a cure. stay happy, abide by the rules, and you won't catch it.

as others say, you shouldn't be affected / infected, from what you say about your plans regarding length of stay. I recently had to move back to my home country, and miss LOS very much. I didn't catch that 'disease' (sometimes just showed symptoms- hope you catch my drift.)

[Iren1cuss]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I guess I can understand why some people have changed their perception of Thailand with the recent changes to their immigration policies and regulations. Regarding the strong Bhat, I just came back from a one month trip to Thailand, and to be honest I didn't feel it was that much more expensive than the last time I went(about 5 years ago). To be fair my country(Chile) is much more expensive than Thailand in almost every regard, so I guess it didn't bother me that much.  

 

Regarding a longer stay, there is a bilateral agreement between Chile and Thailand, it allows Chilean citizens to stay up to 90 days with no visa required. Supposedly there are also no restrictions for new entries to the country, meaning that when I leave the 90 period starts over. It seems too good to be true but I'll make my research before trusting this information. So far I've had 0 problems with immigration in Thailand.

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, Iren1cuss said:

 

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I guess I can understand why some people have changed their perception of Thailand with the recent changes to their immigration policies and regulations. Regarding the strong Bhat, I just came back from a one month trip to Thailand, and to be honest I didn't feel it was that much more expensive than the last time I went(about 5 years ago). To be fair my country(Chile) is much more expensive than Thailand in almost every regard, so I guess it didn't bother me that much.  

 

Regarding a longer stay, there is a bilateral agreement between Chile and Thailand, it allows Chilean citizens to stay up to 90 days with no visa required. Supposedly there are also no restrictions for new entries to the country, meaning that when I leave the 90 period starts over. It seems too good to be true but I'll make my research before trusting this information. So far I've had 0 problems with immigration in Thailand.

Then Chile has the same entry rights as a European does, a 60 day visa that can be extended to 90 days. I used to take a trip somewhere else, like Hanoi, Bali, etc, and then return on a 60 day visa and extend it 30 days. My point is that you might not get away with that anymore. So I think you can be confident of 90 days each year, but my guess is that you will have problems if you try to do it again, even after a short break somewhere else.

 

 

[Hackney35]

3 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

there is nothing wrong with Thailand. i just had a great experience with the immigration office yesterday. if you have some money and common sense you will be fine. i am 64 and and having the time of my life. it is really amazing.

 

do your research and don't think in absolutes. I live in Hua Hin and move around the country on my motorcycle. If you are not tied down you can live anywhere. And spend some time in Vietnam as well.

 

Make sure you dress nicely at immigration and the bank, learn about Thai culture and respect it.

 

 

 

 

This sums it up pretty well. Respect the local culture (even if some of it is illogical), don’t spend more on woman than you can afford and enjoy the great weather and food. 

 

[jastheace]

great comments on this thread. just come and enjoy. if it gets tedious, move on and up.

hope you have a great time.

me, 15 years, had to leave, personal reasons, but wow, what a great 15 years, no regrets at all, would do it again. loved the country, most thai's awesome, had some epic times in Thailand, keep busy, do not get in a rut, travel around, Thailand has many sights to see, some tourist traps, and great things off the beaten track.

just come and enjoy, a great area of the globe. don't forget to visit neighboring countries, awesome too .

[SteveK]

I can fully understand why some people have become bitter about Thailand. When they first visited many years ago, it was welcoming, friendly and easy going, so much so that they decided to up sticks and move here and basically invested a huge amount of their life and finances into the country.

 

Slowly but surely, things have gradually shifted, so that any foreign income they once had has been massively eroded to the point where they can no longer qualify for a long term visa and are effectively being forced out by increasingly heavy handed and callous immigration policies, with constant, upsetting grillings from IOs, plus outrageous and draconian hoops to jump through for anyone who insists on staying.

 

The once carefree, friendly and cheap tropical paradise has thus become an expensive, xenophobic headache - if you came here and built a house, got married and had kids, immigration will still want to boot you out if you haven't got 400k in the bank. I can't imagine being separated from my wife and kids and being forced to go back to a country which is no longer your home because of Thai immigration policies, and can fully understand how awful that must be, and don't blame anyone for being bitter about the current state of things here.

 

For me, Thailand is still a paradise compared to my home country and being forced to go back would be devastating. Like you, I was lucky enough to have a little bit of money to start a new life and now live here with my Thai wife and her family, sure I don't like having to keep going to immigration all the time as it's a 200km round trip for me, but it's still worth it on the whole. I would say go for it, if you find no joy in your home country (sounds exactly like me), don't stay there, life is short, grinding away in a place you hate for years on end is not what I would call living. You get one chance at life, don't forget that.

 

One word of advice - make sure you read as much as you can about Thai immigration & visa policies and why people are being rejected. Also be cautious of the threads on here about people being refused entry, sometimes it seems like there are other factors which influenced the IO's decision which were not mentioned in the post, but obviously it's impossible to be sure. If you are from Chile/Argentina/Uruguay, they aren't going to be the most well-known places to Thai IOs so make sure you get yourself the correct visas and do everything you can to make sure you don't get refused entry - for you it's a long way home. For long-term stay your best options are Elite visa or to get married to a Thai lady. Good luck!

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by SteveK

[Tayaout]

2 hours ago, Iren1cuss said:

Regarding a longer stay, there is a bilateral agreement between Chile and Thailand, it allows Chilean citizens to stay up to 90 days with no visa required. Supposedly there are also no restrictions for new entries to the country, meaning that when I leave the 90 period starts over. It seems too good to be true but I'll make my research before trusting this information. So far I've had 0 problems with immigration in Thailand.

I have dual citizenship and one that also has 90 bilateral agreement. It is ok if you don't plan to stay more than 90 days.

 

There is a report not long ago of someone with the same bilateral agreement who had trouble at the airport and he had to pay a bribe to be let in after the immigration officer discussed with his Thai landlord. He was a repeat visitor. From the website of a visa run company they say you cannot get 90 days at a land border which are a lot easier than the airport. 

 

For the negativity, I think it has something to do with the average age on this forum. Not that there is anything wrong with that! Even in my country many elderly people get grumpy over time... That's not the case for everyone but they have a lot of free time to complaim on this forum. I'm also bitter about the current government and the visa regulations but everything else is fantastic! You should try to visit but for long term you should check other option in Asia. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Tayaout

[ezzra]

Everything in life and every situation in life are being viewed through the eye of the beholder, some are negative others are positive and cheerful, you can put 2 people in a room and you will have 3 opinions,

recently i was looking at a idilica island destination for a holiday, dozens of feedbacks, some called the place a cesspool while others said it was paradise, so go figure peoples opinions and tastes...

[Tayaout]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Then Chile has the same entry rights as a European does, a 60 day visa that can be extended to 90 days. I used to take a trip somewhere else, like Hanoi, Bali, etc, and then return on a 60 day visa and extend it 30 days. My point is that you might not get away with that anymore. So I think you can be confident of 90 days each year, but my guess is that you will have problems if you try to do it again, even after a short break somewhere else.

 

 

No it's not the same. He has 90 visa free entry. He doesn't need a visa and he cannot extend it. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Tayaout

[meechai]

17 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

No it's not the same. He has 90 visa free entry. He doesn't need a visa and he cannot extend it. 

 

Correct & oddly enough a few South American countries do

Like Argentina, Brazil, Chile & Peru get a 90day walk in free

(only other country is Korea)

Edited September 28, 2019 by meechai

[jastheace]

54 minutes ago, SteveK said:

I can fully understand why some people have become bitter about Thailand. When they first visited many years ago, it was welcoming, friendly and easy going, so much so that they decided to up sticks and move here and basically invested a huge amount of their life and finances into the country.

 

Slowly but surely, things have gradually shifted, so that any foreign income they once had has been massively eroded to the point where they can no longer qualify for a long term visa and are effectively being forced out by increasingly heavy handed and callous immigration policies, with constant, upsetting grillings from IOs, plus outrageous and draconian hoops to jump through for anyone who insists on staying.

 

The once carefree, friendly and cheap tropical paradise has thus become an expensive, xenophobic headache - if you came here and built a house, got married and had kids, immigration will still want to boot you out if you haven't got 400k in the bank. I can't imagine being separated from my wife and kids and being forced to go back to a country which is no longer your home because of Thai immigration policies, and can fully understand how awful that must be, and don't blame anyone for being bitter about the current state of things here.

 

For me, Thailand is still a paradise compared to my home country and being forced to go back would be devastating. Like you, I was lucky enough to have a little bit of money to start a new life and now live here with my Thai wife and her family, sure I don't like having to keep going to immigration all the time as it's a 200km round trip for me, but it's still worth it on the whole. I would say go for it, if you find no joy in your home country (sounds exactly like me), don't stay there, life is short, grinding away in a place you hate for years on end is not what I would call living. You get one chance at life, don't forget that.

 

One word of advice - make sure you read as much as you can about Thai immigration & visa policies and why people are being rejected. Also be cautious of the threads on here about people being refused entry, sometimes it seems like there are other factors which influenced the IO's decision which were not mentioned in the post, but obviously it's impossible to be sure. If you are from Chile/Argentina/Uruguay, they aren't going to be the most well-known places to Thai IOs so make sure you get yourself the correct visas and do everything you can to make sure you don't get refused entry - for you it's a long way home. For long-term stay your best options are Elite visa or to get married to a Thai lady. Good luck!

 

 

it's a long read but thumbs up mr steve. nice reply. positively positive. can't fault it. op read, take note

[Iren1cuss]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

I can fully understand why some people have become bitter about Thailand. When they first visited many years ago, it was welcoming, friendly and easy going, so much so that they decided to up sticks and move here and basically invested a huge amount of their life and finances into the country.

 

Slowly but surely, things have gradually shifted, so that any foreign income they once had has been massively eroded to the point where they can no longer qualify for a long term visa and are effectively being forced out by increasingly heavy handed and callous immigration policies, with constant, upsetting grillings from IOs, plus outrageous and draconian hoops to jump through for anyone who insists on staying.

 

The once carefree, friendly and cheap tropical paradise has thus become an expensive, xenophobic headache - if you came here and built a house, got married and had kids, immigration will still want to boot you out if you haven't got 400k in the bank. I can't imagine being separated from my wife and kids and being forced to go back to a country which is no longer your home because of Thai immigration policies, and can fully understand how awful that must be, and don't blame anyone for being bitter about the current state of things here.

 

For me, Thailand is still a paradise compared to my home country and being forced to go back would be devastating. Like you, I was lucky enough to have a little bit of money to start a new life and now live here with my Thai wife and her family, sure I don't like having to keep going to immigration all the time as it's a 200km round trip for me, but it's still worth it on the whole. I would say go for it, if you find no joy in your home country (sounds exactly like me), don't stay there, life is short, grinding away in a place you hate for years on end is not what I would call living. You get one chance at life, don't forget that.

 

One word of advice - make sure you read as much as you can about Thai immigration & visa policies and why people are being rejected. Also be cautious of the threads on here about people being refused entry, sometimes it seems like there are other factors which influenced the IO's decision which were not mentioned in the post, but obviously it's impossible to be sure. If you are from Chile/Argentina/Uruguay, they aren't going to be the most well-known places to Thai IOs so make sure you get yourself the correct visas and do everything you can to make sure you don't get refused entry - for you it's a long way home. For long-term stay your best options are Elite visa or to get married to a Thai lady. Good luck!

 

 

Thank you, Steve,  for the well written, thought-provoking response. I guess I would also be <deleted> off if I moved to another country and found that everything changed in a couple of years in terms of the policies/regulations and also my money influx became less valuable because of the currency.  

 

One of the reasons I don't like my country is similar. Latin America is a very unstable region in terms of politics, and even though Chile has strong institutions and seems like the safest option in the region, you never know in this political climate(my parents already dealt with a communist revolution in the 70's. I'm scared to death of the government taking away everything I've worked so hard to obtain, and extreme, left-leaning parties are gaining strength again, while the tax system is already brutal and unfair for small or middle of the pack entrepreneurs like me). Any owner of a business in my country is viewed as someone who only takes value away from the working class and the poor, it's freaking insanity. 

 

Sorry about the rant. I'll make sure to take notes from your post and this thread in general. So far the advice has been great, so thanks to everyone for the replies!

Cheers!

[Patong2]

Iren1cuss

A very sensible approach.

We spend most of the year here now and have been coming for 20+ years.

As a business owner, investor, I have chosen not to buy anything here. Lease or rent and park your money elsewhere (if you can find anywhere that's safe these days.) I am very pleased we just rent.

 

Plenty to do and enjoy as you will know.

You will know the pitfalls with some of the local ladies so never let on your financial status and don't get attached too quickly,

 

There is no law as you and I understand it so do not assume you have any rights in a business transaction.

 

All said, come and enjoy, it will keep you younger, the climate is great and the locals are pretty darn nice.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Patong2

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, SteveK said:

. For long-term stay your best options are Elite visa or to get married to a Thai lady. Good luck!

 

 

Excellent post. 

Interested to know why you marriage is a better option than money in the bank retirement (extension of Stay) visa?

Edited September 29, 2019 by Kadilo

[gargamon]

I have seen a few threads recently from people that are leaving Thailand after being here a year or two. They give various reasons for their decisions, mainly due to all the negativity they, like the OP, sees on Thaivisa. One Guy had been here a year and had over 12,000 posts on thaivisa. That's like 30 posts a day. Maybe if he had gone out and got a life instead of living online in thaivisa things would have been different.

[Tayaout]

9 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

Excellent post. 

Interested to know why you marriage is a better option than money on the bank retirement (extension of Stay) visa?

Some of us are less than 50 years old.

 

Retirement visa you need 800K baht for 5 month and 400K minimum for the rest of the year. 

 

Marriage you need 400K for 3 month but it can be spent after that period. The paperwork is more time consuming than retirement but some use non-o multi entry instead. With 1 year non-o multi entry you get 90 days on each border crossing which can be extended to 60 days. Some consulate don't ask financial proof to deliver 1 year non-o multi entry. This visa is also available if you are not married but have a Thai child. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Tayaout

[Kadilo]

Just now, Tayaout said:

Some of us are less than 50 years old.

 

Retirement visa you need 800K baht for 5 month and 400K minimum for the rest of the year. 

 

Marriage you need 400K for 3 month but it can be spent after that period. The paperwork is more time consuming than retirement but some use non-o multi entry instead. With 1 year non-o multi entry you get 90 days on each border crossing which can be extended to 60 days. Some consulate don't ask financial proof to deliver 1 year non-o multi entry. 

Fair play. Apologies, I was overlooking the age restrictions. 

 

[Fex Bluse]

The posters who dismiss those of us with negative views on Thailand and categorize us all as people without money are often limited in their exposure to the different types of expats in Thailand.

 

There are many types of Western Expats in Thailand:

• Retirees of limited means, usually blue collar, and often of limited education
• Retirees of substantial means, usually white collar, better educated
• Mid-term, periodic tourists, like oil and gas workers, for example who spend their off time here
• English teachers, limited means, usually of limited education, usually younger
• Digital Nomads, moderate to substantial means, more educated, usually younger
• Expat'ed Professionals, substantial means, highly educated, usually older

Thailand has alot more of the types who are of modest means and modest education and that is just fine. Each group has its own common views about Thailand.

 

A retiree of minimal education -- who can't distinguish between "your" and "you're" and who marries a bar hooker and who proceeds to dump all of his monies into her dastardly schemes -- will often have a dramatically different view of Thailand when compared with a professional expat with a PhD who earns 500,000 Baht a month. The former has needs that are simple: companionship for a small regular fee. The later is usually trying to accomplish something more substantial and thus has different headaches.

 

For example, I have no money problems. I have no woman problems. I do not spend time in seedy bars and interacting with poor Thais. I have worked with and employed Thai elites. I routinely interact with Thais who are magnificently wealthy.

 

And, I have a extremely negative view on Thailand which I have slowly developed over decades visiting, working and living here -- as well as visiting, working and living in many other countries.

 

You have to make your own decisions of course, but it is smart to think about it as holistically as you can, taking in opinions from both the Positive guys and the Negative ones.

 

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Fex Bluse

[Kadilo]

4 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

The posters who dismiss those of us with negative views on Thailand and categorize us all as people without money are often limited in their exposure to the different types of expats in Thailand.

 

There are many types of Western Expats in Thailand:

• Retirees of limited means, usually blue collar, and often of limited education
• Retirees of substantial means, usually white collar, better educated
• Mid-term, periodic tourists, like oil and gas workers, for example who spend their off time here
• English teachers, limited means, usually of limited education, usually younger
• Digital Nomads, moderate to substantial means, more educated, usually younger
• Expat'ed Professionals, substantial means, highly educated, usually older

Thailand has alot more of the types who are of modest means and modest education and that is just fine. Each group has its own common views about Thailand.

 

A retiree of minimal education -- who can't distinguish between "your" and "you're" and who marries a bar hooker and who proceeds to dump all of his monies into her dastardly schemes -- will often have a dramatically different view of Thailand when compared with a professional expat with a PhD who earns 500,000 Baht a month.

 

For example, I have no money problems. I have no woman problems. I do not spend time in seedy bars and interacting with poor Thais. I have worked with and employed Thai elites. I routinely interact with Thais who are magnificently wealthy.

 

And, I have a extremely negative view on Thailand which I have slowly developed over decades visiting, working and living here -- as well as visiting, working and living in many other countries.

 

You have to make your own decisions of course, but it is smart to think about it as holistically as you can, taking in opinions from both the Positive guys and the Negative ones.

 

 

 Be interested to know the reasons in more detail behind your negative views as I admit, I personally put a lot of them I see on here down their financial situation. 

[Fex Bluse]

1 minute ago, Kadilo said:

 Be interested to know the reasons in more detail behind your negative views as I admit, I personally put a lot of them I see on here down their financial situation. 

I'll type a summary a little later in the day, responding to your/this same reply so you see it.