Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[ubonjoe]

31 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

If I enter on a 60 day tourist Visa, what options if any are there to extend my permission to stay? 

You can get a 30 day extension of the 60 day entry.

Or you could change to a 90 day non immigrant visa entry and then apply for a long stay extension at immigration.

[AussieBob18]

10 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

I wonder if @ubonjoe was lawyer before he retired here in Thailand. Othjerwise, how can he intrepret police orders, their intentions, and the nuances?

ubonjoe has been doing this for a very long time and has become very good at it.  Over the many years I have read his responses and advice on Visa related issues I am not aware of him being wrong.  

[AussieBob18]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You can get a 30 day extension of the 60 day entry.

Or you could change to a 90 day non immigrant visa entry and then apply for a long stay extension at immigration.

Thanks joe much appreciated.  

[garyk]

4 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It does not apply to extensions of stay based upon marriage.

Same for applying for a non-o visa at a embassy or consulate.

This will change in the next few years IMHO, Once the insurance company gets a taste of the revenue. Money will start flowing to the right people. What will happen is all will be required to have insurance. Also once you reach a certain age the price will skyrocket. Older retirees will be forced out. This is a huge deal, much bigger than the banks. 

[Pib]

Well, one thing for sure, we will be finding out pretty soon from posts if a person transitioning for a Non-OA Visa to an Extension of Stay is required to have medical insurance to get the Extension of Stay since the police order is effective 31 Oct 2019....end of this month.  I'm sure every day there are a few folks applying for their first extension of stay based on their expiring Non-OA. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But the whole document, at least by my reading, doesn't seem to give any context for why they've also included a section on the O-A insurance requirement in the retirement extensions criteria....

I cannot answer that perfectly.

They had to put it in a police order so they could enforce it so chose clause 2.22 of police orders 327/2557  and 138/2557 to put it in. And it was the best fit since it is titled retirement.

[john terry1001]

52 minutes ago, Pib said:

And what makes it bad is immigration could wake-up tomorrow and decide since non-OAs and extensions of stay are really the same thing---both long stays of 1 year---we need to apply the medical insurance rule to extensions also....just all one year long stays regardless of what their official names are.

I posted this a short while ago:

 

Quote

 

I think section six can be read differently. 

 

It says anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a new non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa. So, after entering with an O-A visa when getting an extension based on retirement you have continued your length of stay in the KINGDOM and could well be required to continue with the insurance until you physically exit Thailand, not when the O-A visa expires.

 

If the wording can be interpreted in the way I read it, then Immigration have already got things covered. It will automatically require extensions to be covered by insurance. It will only be people who've been here on retirement extensions a for a long time that might 'slip through the net in the forseeable future, and of course, people with marriage extensions who don't seem to be included in the current plans...........for now.

[Issannative]

I think it's a valid point how could immigration check if insurance is still valid after the certificate has been issued, but the policy has been canceled.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Pib said:

Well, one thing for sure, we will be finding out pretty soon from posts if a person transitioning for a Non-OA Visa to an Extension of Stay is required to have medical insurance to get the Extension of Stay since the police order is effective 31 Oct 2019....end of this month.  I'm sure every day there are a few folks applying for their first extension of stay based on their expiring Non-OA. 

For sure not that soon.

The only part that goes into effect on the 31st is the OA visa insurance requirement for new visa applications. And I am not sure that will be in effect on the 31st since it has not been announced by the MFA yet or a embassy that I can find.

[Lovethailandelite]

4 minutes ago, Issannative said:

I think it's a valid point how could immigration check if insurance is still valid after the certificate has been issued, but the policy has been canceled.

Because mostly the full Certificate isn't issued until after the cooling off period by which time it is too late to cancel and get a refund. And don't forget the certificate needs to signed off to get the visa by the Insurance company. I would imagine the Insurance company would notify Thai Immigration should you cancel the policy.

 https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

[La Migra]

Why would you not want/have health insurance where you live?

This seems common sense for someone, personally. 

From Thai Govt standpoint, if they, or their citizens/hospitals get stuck with the medical bills, then extending it to all long term visas (and extensions) seems to make sense.

 

[gk10002000]

longstay.tgia.org

 

is specifically mentioned in the order.  <deleted>??  Have to use that?

[gk10002000]

7 minutes ago, La Migra said:

Why would you not want/have health insurance where you live?

This seems common sense for someone, personally. 

From Thai Govt standpoint, if they, or their citizens/hospitals get stuck with the medical bills, then extending it to all long term visas (and extensions) seems to make sense.

 

I would not want it because I would be paying for insurance in my home country USA via Medicare Supp B for sure when I turn 65.  I would never fully rely upon Thai medical insurance even if staying in Thailand for long periods of time.  I would never sever my USA relations.  Now I may want to have some insurance while in Thailand, but the costs under this stipulation are not reasonable, especially outpatient care.  If I had some issue that was not so bad such that I could be out of the hospital, I would jet back to the USA in a heartbeat for treatment.  Getting a retirement visa or retirement extension and staying in Thailand for long periods of time, even years, does NOT mean that I am planning on spending all my remaining years in Thailand

[gk10002000]

19 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Because mostly the full Certificate isn't issued until after the cooling off period by which time it is too late to cancel and get a refund. And don't forget the certificate needs to signed off to get the visa by the Insurance company. I would imagine the Insurance company would notify Thai Immigration should you cancel the policy.

 https://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

My guess is you may cancel the policy, but they will make you pay for the policy full annual premium up front, so money is spent so no sense in canceling the policy?  If so, and I say if so, then monthly payments are not acceptable.  So now pensoners or people on steady fixed payments now have to come up with lump sum things at the start? 

[gk10002000]

OK.  Thailand just decided my "retirement" plans for there.  NOT!  OA visa it will be at best.  Some long term visits, but can't commit to such a flimsy whimsy changing system.  I will be maintaining USA Medicare and Supp B anyway so won't continue on the OA visa path.  Too bad as that was a relatively affordable option for the next two years if I punch out of work this year.  Now just going to go with two SETVs each with a 30 day extension for a total of 180 days time each year in Thailand.  I have enough in the USA to keep me busy and don't really need to retire fully to Thailand. 

 

  Now if one really does NOT need the insurance for subsequent retirement extensions (not clear at the moment) then maybe OA is still workable and just one shot buy the cheapest plan to get the visa, then no need to continue the coverage for each extension?  I doubt that is really what they mean though or would allow

[La Migra]

17 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I would be paying for insurance in my home country USA via Medicare Supp B for sure when I turn 65. 

You would be paying for insurance for where you live (both places) US and Thailand.

 

17 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I would jet back to the USA in a heartbeat for treatment. 

Unless that heartbeat was a heart attack or stroke....in which case you would end up in a Thai hospital for at least some amount of time.

For the OA visa there is no 800K baht in the bank which could go towards payment of your emergency medical bills.  As speculated previously, perhaps that is one of the reasons Thailand decided to require the 800K, and perhaps why they are not now requiring proof of insurance for extensions.

 

As a quick edit - I see you, gk10002000 have already posted a reply with your decision. which given your listed circumstances makes sense.

[garyk]

This is making travel in Europe looking better all the time. Glad I explored Thailand and got that out of my system.

[madmen]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

I bet a lot of folks use Non-OAs based on the posts I've read over the years. 

 

And what makes it bad is immigration could wake-up tomorrow and decide since non-OAs and extensions of stay are really the same thing---both long stays of 1 year---we need to apply the medical insurance rule to extensions also....just all one year long stays regardless of what their official names are.

Compared to retirement extension? I've been here many years and living in a farang ghetto lower suk I can confirm the many expats I know are all on retirement extensions . This insurance will probably only effect a very small percentage of expats

[madmen]

1 hour ago, La Migra said:

then extending it to all long term visas (and extensions) seems to make sense.

extensions are required to have 400k in the bank. Gee what coinidance that the new insurance is also 400k !!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I cannot answer that perfectly.

They had to put it in a police order so they could enforce it so chose clause 2.22 of police orders 327/2557  and 138/2557 to put it in. And it was the best fit since it is titled retirement.

 

And then we come back to the eternal debate about what it means when people say to "renew" a visa for Thailand. Does that mean getting a new visa from one's home country consulate, or does it mean getting an extension of stay from Thai Immigration?

 

In the Thai General Insurance Assn. website that has a guidelines document on the new O-A health insurance requirement in English, it includes the following explanation:

 

Quote

First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only.

 

So what exactly do they mean when they say "When the applicants want to renew the visa..."

 

Does that mean when the O-A visa holder goes back to his home country Thai consulate for a 2nd or successive O-A after the first one?

 

or....

 

Does that mean when the person has arrived in Thailand on an original O-A visa and then goes after the initial 1 to 2 years to extend it at Thai Immigration via an extension of stay?

[BertM]

Seems to me what the gov't is doing (be it intentional or not) is making O-A visa holders buy in-country medical coverage because those visa holders are not required to keep 800k/400k in a Thai bank. If the O-A visa holder leaves and returns in an attempt to get an additional 1-year permission-to-stay and his/her medical will expire before that 1-year stay is up, he/she will be denied entry or will have to extend medical coverage. When the O-A visa holder's visa is about to expire, he/she can apply for a 1-year extension-of-stay based on retirement with the 800k/400k or 65k monthly and then he/she shouldn't need to continue buying the medical coverage. Just my thinking... I could be wrong... but that's how it looks to me. Good luck to all...

[madmen]

1 minute ago, BertM said:

eems to me what the gov't is doing (be it intentional or not) is making O-A visa holders buy in-country medical coverage since those visa holders are not required to keep 800k/400k in a Thai bank

You are 100% correct ..both require 400k ,one in the bank the other with insurance

[sunnyboy2018]

But I have real international medical insurance from BUPA. I pay a high monthly premium for it. Where does that leave me?

[DogNo1]

I could be wrong but a have a premonition that the insurance requirement will be extended to all one-year permission of stay applicants.  Since I am over seventy-five insurance for me is bound to be very expensive and increase the expense of my seven-month stay every year.  Since I am the survivor of cancer and three heart procedures, it probably wouldn't be good for much except broken bones or a stroke.  I wouldn't be willing to keep 400,000 in a Thai bank so it seems that I have two practical options.  One is to spend only three months here and the other is to spend the winter in southern California.  As others have pointed out, an Insurance requirement would only take effect when it comes time to renew your extension.  I don't keep money in the bank here and only transfer the monthly 65,000 but I'm not confident that even people who keep 400,000 or 800,000 in the bank will be exempted from the insurance requirement when it comes.  Time will tell but this government seems to of a mind to impose additional residence requirements

[thinktoomuch]

Hi all.

 

I'm a long-time lurker but I've only just created an account.

 

From reading the Police Order it seems that using a 1 year O-A visa for 2 years worth of entries may be dead for O-A visas issued from the end of the month for people with foreign insurance, unless they buy insurance in Thailand from an approved company for the second year.

 

If I'm reading this correctly, the embassy that issues the visa will make remarks on the visa related to the insurance (validity, period, etc) and immigration officers will grant entry based on those remarks.

 

Unless the embassies take rolling insurance products into account I don't see how this will work.

 

What happens if your insurance and visa application dates don't mesh? For example some people may have insurance that is due for renewal 3 months after their visa application.

 

What if you have insurance for a long trip e.g. 2 years. Will they include that end date in the remarks so that you can use it for the second year or will they only include 1 year because that is the visa validity?

 

 

 

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

Maybe that is true - but I bet it will be a requirement for any extension as well as any new Visa. 

You cannot say that unless we see an order specifying it. I figure it is best not to have a knee jerk reaction to this yet. I am 3 months into an insurance policy that would not qualify as per the O-A terms, and when retirement extension comes along next month expect it not to be an issue. 

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, Issannative said:

I think it's a valid point how could immigration check if insurance is still valid after the certificate has been issued, but the policy has been canceled.

Well, canceled by who?  If you pay up front, you would not cancel it.  You paid the premium and I am sure there is no refund.  Now if the company cancels it and keeps your premium, well, now it is a money grab and a whole different story.  I point out that paying up front but then maybe you return home, well, you have sunk money.  And of course if you are sent home due to some issue, again, you are out the year's premium.  Many expats are long term stayers in Thailand but not necessarily planning to stay there forever.  So they may be carrying insurance from home already.  Now have to get more?  Will some global policies be allowed that are not mentioned on that tgia website in the order? 

[khaepmu]

I already have government insurance. A fee is deducted from my bank account every month for the coverage. I wonder if this insurance is adequate or meets the requirements for the compulsory insurance for O-A applicants and what evidence I would need to show that I am covered. The social services office no longer renew one's insurance card. Instead, I was told that you just show your passport when going to the hospital and your passport number is in the system. Of course, this insurance only applies to the province you live in although you are covered for emergency situations in other provinces. I would like to know how I could find out or what evidence I would need to show that I have legitimate health insurance.

[jacko45k]

9 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

I would like to know how I could find out or what evidence I would need to show that I have legitimate health insurance.

When do you expect to be applying for a Non-Imm-OA Visa...?

What country is your Government insurance issued by?

[patinchis]

I have an OA visa issued in london 29th August, I am due to enter this weekend , my wife with same visa due to enter 31 Oct can anyone tell me if they will refuse enter in the already issued visas as I don’t have the health insurance ?


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