Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[Mango Bob]

I seen one for Hat Yai, Petchaburi, Hua Hin and some guy was stating this afternoon that some Bulletin (?) was fake and Chiang Mai said you didn't need insurance if prior to 31 Oct 19.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, erymax said:

Joe this refers to permission of stay after one year visa not extension of stay. IMO. The granted length of stay is the second year after visa expires.

I don't think so.

The 2nd year is covered in the last memo in the English version for those issued after the 31st. On entry to the country you must have insurance valid for the entire year of the last entry.

[LivinLOS]

7 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They will definitely enforce for entries on visas issued after then,  and it is clear they will stamp people in only for the duration of their insurance so people will need to renew policies before making last entry on the visa.  Most insurers will  allow renewal a month or two before policy expiration date.

and what a mess that will be for people travelling through the year.. 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Perhaps that is intended to mean that if you already have an extension, it won't be rescinded. If that's the case it would better if it said for "the" granted length of stay, meaning that your current extension based is unaffected, but if you apply for a new one, then the new rules will apply.

 

A granted length of stay can also be an extension not an entry.  That cover letter is only for the change to clause 2.18 of the existing police order.

The last memo in the English version is for the entries to the country.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I wonder what all this would mean for a prior O-A holder who's then switched to a marriage extension along the way?

 

I'm guessing they'd say same same for marriage extension or retirement extension holder today....so long as either of them date back go an O-A visa.

 

 

And this is why its a highly illogical / non standard solution being imposed. 

 

Because annual extensions of permission of stay were always done on a 'going forward' basis.. Your initial visa, while recorded, didnt control the rules of your extension. Now it does and creates wildly different outcomes for 2 identical candidates in every other respect. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, LivinLOS said:

And this is why its a highly illogical / non standard solution being imposed. 

 

Because annual extensions of permission of stay were always done on a 'going forward' basis.. Your initial visa, while recorded, didnt control the rules of your extension. Now it does and creates wildly different outcomes for 2 identical candidates in every other respect. 

 

You were expecting logic?  

[KeeTua]

39 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Perhaps that is intended to mean that if you already have an extension, it won't be rescinded. If that's the case it would better if it said for "the" granted length of stay, meaning that your current extension based is unaffected, but if you apply for a new one, then the new rules will apply.

The more correct translation of that last line is as you suppose:

'To stay in the Kingdom for the period permitted'

Paste into Google Translate to check:

ให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อไปได้ตามระยะเวลาที่ได้รับอนุญาต

[LivinLOS]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You were expecting logic?  

lol... no.. 

 

But this one is really pushing the redline ????

[LivinLOS]

42 minutes ago, moogradod said:

Instead of trying to point out what is logical why you and others here are not just happy for anybody not affected, regardless of the reason ?

 

"Look, look, I have found someone which seems not be affected  but should be - please look that he will be punished in the same way that everybody (me) is - it would be logical...."

 

This mind set makes me feel sad.

What are you on about ?? I think the entire process is a bad joke.. For the billions brought in via tourism, 100 mil in unpaid fees is a drop in the bucket, hell less than the collected airport tax.. 

With 40 million arrivals its 2.5 baht per arrival !!!

 

This isnt about who 'gets away with it', its about the currently / planned implementation and likelihood of this spreading or the likely implementation and immigrations possible thinking behind the rules. Burying your head in the sand doesnt benefit anyone. 

[Mango Bob]

Can anyone point out where they see on the police order that it applies to those who are on an extension of stay prior to 31 Oct 19.  I just see that it applies to those who arrive after 31 Oct 19.   Could there be another police order we don't know about stating that anyone on an extension of stay prior to 31 Oct 19 must have health insurance?  Maybe someone need to get with immigrations and not the IO but the ones who wrote this order.

[LivinLOS]

33 minutes ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

My personal belief is this is on the order of "grandfathering" in the insurance regulation. Face it. Factual that persons over the age of 65/70 will find it impossible to procure insurance from the companies listed.

The policies list ages for acceptance of new members up to 80.. 

 

Someone posted that they can be extended up to 100 (not checked personally) can only imagine the costs of that tho.. Multi hundred k per annum I would think.

[BritManToo]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Someone posted that they can be extended up to 100 (not checked personally) can only imagine the costs of that tho.. Multi hundred k per annum I would think.

Elite would probably be cheaper.

[Lovethailandelite]

16 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

Can anyone point out where they see on the police order that it applies to those who are on an extension of stay prior to 31 Oct 19.  

As I and others have continued to tell you, it doesn't. People got fixated on the 31st October which is simply a start date for the legislation. The order mentions no date of when the O-A visa was obtained which lead to past and present extensions.

[moogradod]

24 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

What are you on about ?? I think the entire process is a bad joke.. For the billions brought in via tourism, 100 mil in unpaid fees is a drop in the bucket, hell less than the collected airport tax.. 

With 40 million arrivals its 2.5 baht per arrival !!!

 

This isnt about who 'gets away with it', its about the currently / planned implementation and likelihood of this spreading or the likely implementation and immigrations possible thinking behind the rules. Burying your head in the sand doesnt benefit anyone. 

Although I do not think that my previous post was completely off topic (sometimes I miss some compassion here on TVF, not specifically targeting you) I do absolutely acknowledge your view as well. I think (hope) that I understand quite some of the very many aspects of this all.

 

But then it comes down to the question: What can we do about it fundamentally if we were not just make the best out of the worst ? Nothing to do with head in the sand. Everything to do with benefitting everybody.

[Exploring Thailand]

53 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

The more correct translation of that last line is as you suppose:

'To stay in the Kingdom for the period permitted'

Paste into Google Translate to check:

ให้อยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อไปได้ตามระยะเวลาที่ได้รับอนุญาต

Right, or even from my own intermediate Thai ตามระยะเวลาที่ได้รับอนุญาต = following/according to the the period of time for which {you} have received permission.

[el jefe]

15 hours ago, saengd said:

Each to their own of course and you have the right to have done all those things. Personally I'm amazed that anyone would spend 14 years of their retirement living here with that degree of uncertainty and being subject to constant change. You've gone from METV's (which are not intended for retirement in the first place), to an O-A but you say you would want to get a new O-A when the first one expires hence there's an avoidance issue in there somewhere. But then you say you would gladly put 800k in the bank here but you don't want to spend 15k on an agent to do that (or presumably, spend the money to travel overseas to get an O visa and then come back and extend it). Maybe you are not gaming the system but your strategy seems odd to me when you have the agent option or a return trip overseas to get an O. Up to you as they say.

There's no "avoidance issue" anywhere. The only things I'm trying to avoid are:
1. Useless insurance.

2. Needless trips to Immigration (other than certificates of Residency I've been to Immigration exactly once in 14 years)

3. Paying an agent 15,000 baht to hand in forms I filled in myself without the need for an agent. In CM you cannot convert to an O visa without paying an agent. They're the ones gaming the system.

I can't get an O visa in my home country any more. The NY consulate stopped issuing those. I used to get those annually but they were eliminated about 4 years ago. That's when I switched to METV's. I explained my situation at the consulate. They said I qualified. You said they're not intended for retirement. I never said I was retired.

for me getting the required documents for an O-A was easy. The police report took about an hour of my time. the medical report took no time at all. I had it done while I was at the doctor for a scheduled exam.

 

I could just as easily say that YOU are gaming the system by depositing 800k in the bank and avoiding a police check and a medical exam.
 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

That's when I switched to METV's. I explained my situation at the consulate. They said I qualified. You said they're not intended for retirement. I never said I was retired.

 

Absolutely. As long as you live outside of Thailand and only travel to Thailand from time to time.

 

Otherwise, you may be perceived as trying to live in Thailand on a tourist visa by Immigration.

 

Same same like the under 50's.

Edited October 18, 2019 by lkv

[lupin]

6 hours ago, lkv said:

Absolutely. As long as you live outside of Thailand and only travel to Thailand from time to time.

 

Otherwise, you may be perceived as trying to live in Thailand on a tourist visa by Immigration.

 

Same same like the under 50's.

Agree... too many times we read some post from some guy who says "help, got denied at border... I have 23 METVs in passport plus 11 visa exemptions but I'm just a tourist. What are my options now, I just want to get back in so I can sell my car, my bike, close my bank account, cancel my 1 year condo contract and get my things... but I'm just a tourist."

[Assurancetourix]

I will make it short to you ..
Yesterday morning I went to question one of my uncles who is a high-ranking Thai official; he is director of public health in Udon Thani province.
Well, he is absolutely unaware of the desiderata of Immigration.
Stronger, I was with a brother-in-law who is Swedish and who said the same things as me, he could hardly believe that every province does its little personal laundry with regard to a law which, in principle, is national.

He promised us a thorough investigation ..
Wait and see...????

 

I have lived here for more than 13 years, I am officially married for 12 years;
I have never had health insurance because I do not think I need it; and I am right;
so far I have had to spend 5,000 baht in various treatments at the local clinic and the Sawang Daen Din Hospital;
5,000 baht in more than 13 years;
if I had taken health insurance these 5,000 baht would certainly have been refunded but I would have spent 50 times more in health insurance !!
and if one day I have a serious cardiovascular accident or something similar and well it will be a goodbye to the world ....
Why do you want to live at all costs, half or totally paralised, without being able to do the things you have always loved?
Staying with life is not my thing; in any case, no one is immortal.
We have a girl with an autoimmune disease who has to be followed regularly in the public hospital of Khon Kaen until at least 50 years old.
This young woman bears my name but I am not the biological father.
If the immigration asks me to leave the territory, this young woman and her mother will find themselves in a financial situation which at the beginning will be difficult then will go getting worse.

 

Things will certainly change in a few months;
When they have thought (albeit ask the military to reflect is certainly beyond their faculties) the consequences of this new law, they will certainly put it to oblivion like so many other laws they have dig up and bury them again, realizing that opening the Pandorre box is never a good thing.

[saengd]

9 hours ago, el jefe said:

There's no "avoidance issue" anywhere. The only things I'm trying to avoid are:
1. Useless insurance.

2. Needless trips to Immigration (other than certificates of Residency I've been to Immigration exactly once in 14 years)

3. Paying an agent 15,000 baht to hand in forms I filled in myself without the need for an agent. In CM you cannot convert to an O visa without paying an agent. They're the ones gaming the system.

I can't get an O visa in my home country any more. The NY consulate stopped issuing those. I used to get those annually but they were eliminated about 4 years ago. That's when I switched to METV's. I explained my situation at the consulate. They said I qualified. You said they're not intended for retirement. I never said I was retired.

for me getting the required documents for an O-A was easy. The police report took about an hour of my time. the medical report took no time at all. I had it done while I was at the doctor for a scheduled exam.

 

I could just as easily say that YOU are gaming the system by depositing 800k in the bank and avoiding a police check and a medical exam.
 

I agree there is likely to be a proportion who use the O-A visa in the way you describe, for valid reason, especially if the person does not reside here full time. The gamers I am referring to are those people who live here full time and use back to back O-A's to avoid bringing in funds. I also spend half my year in my home country and half here in Thailand, I used to be a full time resident in Thailand for almost twenty years. I am unlikely to want to change my existing O-A visa to something different because at some point I may yet again become a full time resident.

[lupin]

6 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

The Non O had 800K in the bank so couldn't run out. Tapping the 800K could  effect renewals but medical bills would be paid.                                  

My only remaining question is what were the numbers using OA visas that were renewing every other year in the first place and how many actually ran out of medical bills. My guess is it's probably close to zero but I could be wrong. I suspect some sort of vested interest could be at play, but don't know.

If you're suggesting that the reason an OA obtained outside the kingdom requires health insurance IS because it doesn't require 800k in a thai bank, then you would need to explain why the OX requires health insurance AND 3 mill in a Thai bank.

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Jim P said:

I`m wondering how they will police it, will they be able to read my full policy at immigration ?

Do you have a small insurance card? I was given one with my policy in Thailand and always have been. A summary of the cover is on mine and such detail is clear. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by jacko45k

[saengd]

5 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

A conversion from a TR visa to Non O is possible in Thailand. It's also available in countries that neighbor Thailand.

The OA became more popular because some would renew every two years and avoid the requirement to have funds in a Thai Bank. Renewing in Thailand was less advantageous because of the requirement for financials in a Thai Bank but it wasn't worth changing to a Non O, because the requirements are the same. I think now that there will be many conversions to Non O visas because the OA's insurance requirements. 

Those on OA who were renewing every two years now must either buy insurance or convert to Non O and put money into the Thai Bank. I'd guess that people will either use more ME TR visa (those staying shorter times, stay home, or convert to Non O. The number of new insurance policies might not be as great as expected. 

For people with a Non Imm O based on retirement, this whole issue has been blown totally out of proportion and cause a lot of useless misleading conversations and posting. The Non O had 800K in the bank so couldn't run out. Tapping the 800K could  effect renewals but medical bills would be paid.                                  

My only remaining question is what were the numbers using OA visas that were renewing every other year in the first place and how many actually ran out of medical bills. My guess is it's probably close to zero but I could be wrong. I suspect some sort of vested interest could be at play, but don't know.

My opinion is that since its now budget time for the government the issue of debt has been very much in focus. Government would have liked to impose a health insurance tax on all incoming tourists and that would have solved the problem. But because tourist numbers are down they have said they will defer that gem lest they should further scare off even more tourists.

 

So in the absence of anything else they have attacked the low hanging fruit, at least they are seen to be doing something to thwart those evil non bill paying devils!

 

The real problem of course is that the debt numbers are now out of all proportion, every single hospital debt has been grouped into that 600 million and hoisted onto the shoulders of the foreigners who've done runners, clearly the Cambodian and Burmese workers haven't played a role in that whatsoever, no way. And the in hospital scams where embezzlement has been covered up and attributed to people who haven't paid their bills is not a real issue at all, that could never happen, unless foreigners were involved of course.

 

 

 

 

[Assurancetourix]

2 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

What kind of Visa do you have? If it's an OA you need to change to Non Imm O.

I don't like insurance either. I believe it's the reason for the high cost of healthcare in US. Socialized medicine is even worse because with both the user (patient) rarely see or is concerned with the bill. 

I don't know !!! I

I have a visa O family ( thai wife );

it's all I know about it .

 

I have never understood these different abreviations: O, O-A;
I do not know what they mean.
I obtained my visa in Thailand at Nong Khai at the time when there was no immigration office in Sakon Nakhon and transformed a tourist visa obtained in Vientiane (Laos) into a visa. O " Thai-wife ".

 

Hope you can explain me what I have exactly and if I need to buy an health insurance.

[domdom]

Hello

A friend reading and speaking thai sent me this link..

https://www.immigration.go.th/read?content_id=5d9c3b074d8a8f318362a8aa&fbclid=IwAR3223GDWc91tNYr5U1_h6Kn5vfX6LM-_qhMgzWrXFmKv30cf7iqSRrA6uc

 

In this link you will find this part

พยาบาลในกรณีผู้ป่วยนอกไม่น้อยกว่า 40,000 บาท กรณีผู้ป่วยในไม่น้อยกว่า 400,000 บาท โดยซื้อกรมธรรม์แบบออนไลน์ผ่าน longstay.tgia.org สำหรับผู้ที่ซื้อประกันสุขภาพของบริษัทต่างประเทศ จะต้องมีจำนวนเงินเอาประกันภัยไม่น้อยกว่า การทำประกันสุขภาพของไทยตามที่กำหนดด้วยเช่นกันโดยมีผลใช้บังคับตั้งแต่วันที่ 31 ต.ค.62 เป็นไป รวม 3 ฉบับ

 

which says that foreign insurances are accepted as far as they offer the minimum 400 + 40 K warantee

 

I think we should all contact the embassies and local consulates to ask them to intervene with the highest thai authorities and clear that matter

 

Have a nice day

[Tanoshi]

13 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I wonder what all this would mean for a prior O-A holder who's then switched to a marriage extension along the way?

The amendment to the orders to the criteria for obtaining an extension only relates to section 2.22 for retirement purposes.

There is no change to section 2.18 (marriage) and no mention of O-A Visas within that section.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I have never understood these different abreviations: O, O-A;
I do not know what they mean.

The basic difference is an 'O' type Visa only allows a 90 day entry.

The O-A Visa allows a 1 year entry.

 

14 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I obtained my visa in Thailand at Nong Khai at the time when there was no immigration office in Sakon Nakhon and transformed a tourist visa obtained in Vientiane (Laos) into a visa. O " Thai-wife

You converted a TV into an 'O' Visa.

You are not affected by the requirement to have medical Insurance.

[john terry1001]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The basic difference is an 'O' type Visa only allows a 90 day entry.

The O-A Visa allows a 1 year entry.

Can you not get a multi entry non O based on marriage from Savanakhet, or have they now stopped it?

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

Can you not get a multi entry non O based on marriage from Savanakhet, or have they now stopped it?

Yes you can, but if your married it's far less inconvenient to just change to a marriage extension.

[worgeordie]

The wife of a friend,who has serious health problems,

panicked when my wife told her retirees may have to

get expensive insurance,(if they could).

 

So she was straight on the phone to Chiang Mai Immigration,

to get clarification, they told her OA visa holders have to have

insurance after the end of this month, and next year,other

retirees will also have to have insurance ! I don't know how

he could possible get cover,he's 73,had cover from BUPA,

but claimed a lot to get treatment for lung cancer,and treatment

on his eyes,I expect there are many more here,with families

that are in the same situation,over 70,existing conditions,

I wonder if the Government are sparing a thought for the likes

of them...........no i think not.

egards worgeordie