UK PM Johnson agrees 'great' new Brexit deal with EU

[SheungWan]

But to what end; Parliament back 11 months 3 weeks later with the latest tweak of May's deal having chased their tails for the rest of the time?

Within the next 12 months likely to have had an election or referendum which possibly will change the maths.

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[SheungWan]

Actually, I haven't heard anything like that from his mouth. What he DID say was that "there will be no extension". And as you point out, he did this without references to any other heads of state. He simply decided to make the decision for them.
 
There you have it - the little grey dictatorship in a nutshell - the very reason Brexit must happen. 

Except there is likely to be an extension if Parliament votes down deal.

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[SheungWan]

I'm well aware of how it works and it's not in the interest of Europe seeing the UK leave. If it means another 20 extensions, then we will get them despite the rhetoric from Macron.
 

Nothing to do with interest other than not forcing exit.

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[SheungWan]

Do I? I am so pleased you make the occasional attempt to tell posters what they mean. Not to say surprised! Or perhaps not...

Some Hard Brexiteers are a little lost lately. Require assistance.

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[damascase]

5 hours ago, Forethat said:

Actually, I haven't heard anything like that from his mouth. What he DID say was that "there will be no extension". And as you point out, he did this without references to any other heads of state. He simply decided to make the decision for them.

 

There you have it - the little grey dictatorship in a nutshell - the very reason Brexit must happen. 

You know the difference between giving an opinion/stating an expectation and taking a decision, don’t you? 

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post removed

[david555]

???????

 

Heather Stewart and Larry Elliott in Washington

Fri 18 Oct 2019 22.30 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/18/pm-faces-brexit-extension-even-if-his-deal-is-passed

PM faces Brexit extension even if his deal is passed

Labour and former Tory MPs join in bid to force through extension with amendment on ‘super Saturday.

Boris Johnson’s plan to push through a Brexit deal on Saturday looks likely to be frustrated after an alliance of Labour and former Tory MPs united behind a plan to force a new extension.

After clinching a last-minute deal in Brussels on Thursday by agreeing to a customs border in the Irish Sea, the prime minister had hoped to frame the rare Saturday sitting of parliament as a dramatic “new deal or no deal” moment.But despite positive reactions from Bank of England governor Mark Carney and declarations of support from several Labour MPs, Johnson’s plans were rocked on Friday by a cross-party group led by Oliver Letwin and Hilary Benn.

The Conservative and Labour MPs will table an amendment allowing parliament to withhold its approval until the legislation to implement Brexit has passed.

 

more...

[transam]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Some Hard Brexiteers are a little lost lately. Require assistance.

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Lost, I don't think so....In fact if Brexit actually goes through, and after reading your posts on the subject, I think you are the one that will be lost and scrabbling around for assistance..........????............????

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Except there is likely to be an extension if Parliament votes down deal.

Perhaps not...

Quote

Article 51 - Coercion of a representative of a State

245

The expression of a State's consent to be bound by a treaty which has been procured by the coercion of its representative through acts or threats directed against him shall be without any legal effect.

Article 51 - Coercion of a representative of a State

 

& If that doesn't work there's always the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 in reserve.

[Forethat]

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will. It was only a week ago that Tusk and Juncker declared that there wasn't enough time for a new deal. And all of a sudden he's chin down on the podium with Boris who looks like he just robbed the bank and got away with it.

 

What happened?

 

If I may speculate, I THINK they know something we don't. And the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that EU are trying to save a couple of bucks from what will otherwise be a No Deal Brexit.

 

I wonder if what they already know is that an extension will be declined by at least one member state.

[Mavideol]

in my humble opinion BJ does not have the slightest intention of having the deal passed/accepted by PM's.... he has something up his sleeve and wants to crash out with no deal

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

This is a new deal, which hasnt yet been rejected once by the HoC .

EU has stated that there will be no more extensions , so, accept this deal or we shall be leaving without a deal

It's the sos with a limited revision, mainly w.r.t. the Irish backstop. 

[Mavideol]

14 minutes ago, Forethat said:

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will.

did you ever consider that may have been the other way around..... Blondie was desperate, he would sell his "relatives" for a quid

[nauseus]

9 hours ago, Forethat said:

Actually, I haven't heard anything like that from his mouth. What he DID say was that "there will be no extension". And as you point out, he did this without references to any other heads of state. He simply decided to make the decision for them.

 

There you have it - the little grey dictatorship in a nutshell - the very reason Brexit must happen. 

TV interview, he was happy.

[david555]

18 minutes ago, Forethat said:

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will. It was only a week ago that Tusk and Juncker declared that there wasn't enough time for a new deal. And all of a sudden he's chin down on the podium with Boris who looks like he just robbed the bank and got away with it.

 

What happened?

 

If I may speculate, I THINK they know something we don't. And the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that EU are trying to save a couple of bucks from what will otherwise be a No Deal Brexit.

 

I wonder if what they already know is that an extension will be declined by at least one member state.

It just solved the hottest item for E.U. the Irish border ….all that other economic problems they can handle, and the xx billions case ,are as good as in the bank ...

[stephenterry]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:45 PM, citybiker said:

British politics has long been poisoned well before Brexit, in fact it's been broken for years, it's just HoC chose to ignore it for political gain.

It's just remainer people vote losers continue to whine they lost.*


*Please note, that's a not a personal dig just an observation that the losing side who say they 'respect the vote' but really many don't, aka Libdems, Labour & SNP.

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I'm a fence-sitter just like Corbyn. but unlike Corbyn I consider that the best approach would have been to address the leavers issues from a seat within the EU. Clearly the EU is nowhere near a perfect Union, nor for that matter is the UK, and especially the government whose austerity programme was one main reason why many  'fed-up' people, and 'out of workers' voted to leave.

 

As regards to respecting the vote, I acknowledge that the government promised to act on the result, but they fell far short of expectations. Nevertheless, both May and johnson delivered a deal that complies with the ballot paper of leaving the EU. That also has to be respected, including MP's. 

 

For example, as is the case for all MPs, I have a democratic right to oppose that decision along with Remainers, as does everyone else who abstained, who voted to leave, and those who oppose the (not as anticipated) deals made by May and johnson.

 

This is truly democracy in the UK - because everyone can join the party, not just 17.4m or 16.8m minority elements.

 

[citybiker]

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will. It was only a week ago that Tusk and Juncker declared that there wasn't enough time for a new deal. And all of a sudden he's chin down on the podium with Boris who looks like he just robbed the bank and got away with it.
 
What happened?
 
If I may speculate, I THINK they know something we don't. And the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that EU are trying to save a couple of bucks from what will otherwise be a No Deal Brexit.
 
I wonder if what they already know is that an extension will be declined by at least one member state.

There’s two ways of looking at this, firstly.

A, the EU don’t change or have a change of heart it’s primary focus is the protection of MS, CU & SM as you’d expect, also the backlash from other MS having to increase subs is another factor.

B, Boris big gamble is what it says, however the PM & Cummins would have planned lol scenarios to counter EU & internal domestic rejection, A51 & CCA as previously mentioned.

Lastly, The Letwin amendment to the Benn surrender deal? Parliament is already fully aware of electorate mood & Brussels has made it clear no need for further extension thus the EU attempting at all costs to ensure any failure will now be at the HoC doorstep not Brussels, reducing any litigation.


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[citybiker]

I'm a fence-sitter just like Corbyn. but unlike Corbyn I consider that the best approach would have been to address the leavers issues from a seat within the EU. Clearly the EU is nowhere near a perfect Union, nor for that matter is the UK, and especially the government whose austerity programme was one main reason why many  'fed-up' people, and 'out of workers' voted to leave.

 

As regards to respecting the vote, I acknowledge that the government promised to act on the result, but they fell far short of expectations. Nevertheless, both May and johnson delivered a deal that complies with the ballot paper of leaving the EU. That also has to be respected, including MP's. 

 

For example, as is the case for all MPs, I have a democratic right to oppose that decision along with Remainers, as does everyone else who abstained, who voted to leave, and those who oppose the (not as anticipated) deals made by May and johnson.

 

This is truly democracy in the UK - because everyone can join the party, not just 17.4m or 16.8m minority elements.

 

 

Labours biggest issue was consistently ignoring the EU referendum, Blair tried then renegade, the current Labour bunch a worst shower I’ve seen in years.

 

Brexit is similar to the Scottish Indyref IMO, the political class doesn’t get ‘their’ desired result thus using every weak woeful excuse to refuse or drag its feet to implement the result.

 

Both referendums have big a huge wake up call for the political establishment, it will take years for any kind of trust if at all to be reinstated.

 

 

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[SheungWan]

 
Labours biggest issue was consistently ignoring the EU referendum, Blair tried then renegade, the current Labour bunch a worst shower I’ve seen in years.
 
Brexit is similar to the Scottish Indyref IMO, the political class doesn’t get ‘their’ desired result thus using every weak woeful excuse to refuse or drag its feet to implement the result.
 
Both referendums have big a huge wake up call for the political establishment, it will take years for any kind of trust if at all to be reinstated.
 
 
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Around the houses Hard Brexiting.

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[SheungWan]

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will. It was only a week ago that Tusk and Juncker declared that there wasn't enough time for a new deal. And all of a sudden he's chin down on the podium with Boris who looks like he just robbed the bank and got away with it.
 
What happened?
 
If I may speculate, I THINK they know something we don't. And the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that EU are trying to save a couple of bucks from what will otherwise be a No Deal Brexit.
 
I wonder if what they already know is that an extension will be declined by at least one member state.

Shock! Hard Brexiteer struggling to make sense. Scratching around in the negotiation process.

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[SheungWan]

 
Labours biggest issue was consistently ignoring the EU referendum, Blair tried then renegade, the current Labour bunch a worst shower I’ve seen in years.
 
Brexit is similar to the Scottish Indyref IMO, the political class doesn’t get ‘their’ desired result thus using every weak woeful excuse to refuse or drag its feet to implement the result.
 
Both referendums have big a huge wake up call for the political establishment, it will take years for any kind of trust if at all to be reinstated.
 
 
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The result not being no-deal but don't let that distract the meanderings.

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[transam]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The result not being no-deal but don't let that distract the meanderings.

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Hopefully you soon will no longer have to worry, the thread will be over, you must find a thread where "hard" can fit in on near every post....I don't envy you...????

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Hopefully you soon will no longer have to worry, the thread will be over, you must find a thread where "hard" can fit in on near every post....I don't envy you...????

Yes, I have noticed that as well , he only seems to be concerned about Brexiteers if they are "hard" , and he has no interest in Brexiteers if they are soft

[transam]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Yes, I have noticed that as well , he only seems to be concerned about Brexiteers if they are "hard" , and he has no interest in Brexiteers if they are soft

Correct.......A strange attitude....

[tebee]

3 hours ago, Forethat said:

I still struggle to make sense of EUs sudden change of will. It was only a week ago that Tusk and Juncker declared that there wasn't enough time for a new deal. And all of a sudden he's chin down on the podium with Boris who looks like he just robbed the bank and got away with it.

 

What happened?

 

If I may speculate, I THINK they know something we don't. And the only plausible explanation I can come up with is that EU are trying to save a couple of bucks from what will otherwise be a No Deal Brexit.

 

I wonder if what they already know is that an extension will be declined by at least one member state.

The reason they accepted this so quickly is  that it pretty much a reversion to an earlier deal that the EU offered to TM.

 

It's very much to the EU's advantage. It sort of solve NI and may very well lead to a united Ireland. The UK is going to have to charge near zero import duties to prevent runaway inflation, whille the EU is obliged by WTO to charge tariffs on UK goods being imported there . This means than any manufacturing business that wants to serve both UK and EU markets needs to be located in the EU to be competitive. They are reckoning that the increase in tax revenues from those business  will offset the loss of UK contributions.

 

Also the UK will have very little to offer when they try to negotiate an FTA with the EU, which means the EU can dictate the terms     

[transam]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

The reason they accepted this so quickly is  that it pretty much a reversion to an earlier deal that the EU offered to TM.

 

It's very much to the EU's advantage. It sort of solve NI and may very well lead to a united Ireland. The UK is going to have to charge near zero import duties to prevent runaway inflation, whille the EU is obliged by WTO to charge tariffs on UK goods being imported there . This means than any manufacturing business that wants to serve both UK and EU markets needs to be located in the EU to be competitive. They are reckoning that the increase in tax revenues from those business  will offset the loss of UK contributions.

 

Also the UK will have very little to offer when they try to negotiate an FTA with the EU, which means the EU can dictate the terms     

What a load of tosh......Boris & Co. stood their ground and the couple of folk who run the EU folded.....

[sanemax]

14 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I missed that. Where did the eu state this?
 

Juncker did but the eu as a body, can you provide a link to this statement?

 

I can only find links such as this

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/17/eu-leaders-gather-for-summit-as-boris-johnson-scrambles-to-get-backing-for-brexit-deal-politics-live

I thought that I heard it on the news, maybe I was mistaken 

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, tebee said:

The UK is going to have to charge near zero import duties to prevent runaway inflation, whille the EU is obliged by WTO to charge tariffs on UK goods being imported there

The UK are also governed by WTO rules .

Why would the EU have different tariff rules, if both the EU and the UK adhere to the same rule book ?

  

[tebee]

27 minutes ago, transam said:

What a load of tosh......Boris & Co. stood their ground and the couple of folk who run the EU folded.....

You can believe that if you want to delude yourself.

 

But ask yourself this - this deal needs to be approved by all 27 member states.

So how come they can all agree to this so quickly - because it's essentially identical to a deal already offered and agreed.

 

If you think this is a new deal, what do you think the differences are between this and the first draft of the withdrawal agreement offered to TM in december 2017? 

[oldhippy]

The referendum was about Cameron trying to stay in power.

The snap election was about May trying to stay in power,

This deal is about Bojo trying to stay in power.

Tories.....