Gulf War veteran, 55, was killed by a single punch from a bouncer in Thailand who claimed he tried to leave go-go bar without paying his bill

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

2 minutes ago, BestB said:

It’s called video on fast forward ????

Oh ok, just in the same way that you're judgement and morality are on 'pause'? 

Edited November 1, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, SymS said:

I think one of the problem is they lure customers saying it's free to look, and then charge them when they leave even if they did not order anything. Saw a YouTube video about this a while ago.

True

but now with internet the words spread and you can't do it for longtime

the Mandarin (The gogo in the case) is closed since a while and half of the

gogo of walking street are closed or for rent\sale.

In the same time the Windmill a gogo, not even on the main street

is full everyday, the farang management do an excellent job here and

nobody is ripped off and everybody is more than happy here. Win\win

and long term vision.

[xylophone]

12 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

With the odds at 2+ against one - yes, it's well known to be the case here, especially when the victim is a foreigner. I can name you dozens of stories and reports in the media and through friends here of this happening. As well as personal experience. The xenophobic taint in most of these attacks shouldn't be understated. 

Have witnessed similar here over the years and on one occasion a gang of about 5 Thai thugs attacked a restaurant owner here, using wooden bats and a chain.......left him bleeding and with what looked like a broken arm.

 

And just two weeks ago I saw a younger farang set upon by a gang of "security guard thugs" and he managed to run away, but not before taking a bit of a beating.

 

The Thais, in the main, are cowardly bar-stewards who will only fight in a pack and i do not respect them one iota.

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Maybe you watched a different video, i see him (foreigner) try to hit and miss the Thai first after that the Thai tries to hit and connects and fals over the guy.. End of fight. One punch thrown that misses (by foreigner and first) then the counter from the Thai connects and they both fall over.

 

He might be an old boy but he was heavier. I dont get it old guys here always complain about age discrimination and then when this happen they are all saying he was old. How can you have it two ways. 

I'm not having it both ways. They took liberties with the man out in the street in full public view and now he's dead.

 

That's what this topic is all about. It's not about your imaginary complaints about age discrimination nor who's the heaviest.

[DannyCarlton]

13 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

This  shows just how corrupt the Thai judiciary are. The video clearly shows the victim trying to get way, so how can the brutal bouncer claim "self defense"    The PM needs to take these events into more consideration if he wants  tourists to feel safe, as it is clearly not the case at the present.

Shows nothing of the sort. Shows him backing off then throwing a punch when confronted about his bill.

[bristolgeoff]

a go go bar or karoki bar is well known for overprice drinks and bills.happens everywhere a few cases in cnx a few yrs ago.maybe he did not know  and the wrong bar too.who knows the end results  was not good for him.i happens in instanbul too,many years ago similar tricks  and huge bill ,not pay a couple of heavy men force u to pay then they go to there embassy and complain about the night before.first time tourist lost they shirt and i saw the bars  knew the score never went in when i lived there

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

11 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have witnessed similar here over the years and on one occasion a gang of about 5 Thai thugs attacked a restaurant owner here, using wooden bats and a chain.......left him bleeding and with what looked like a broken arm.

 

And just two weeks ago I saw a younger farang set upon by a gang of "security guard thugs" and he managed to run away, but not before taking a bit of a beating.

 

The Thais, in the main, are cowardly bar-stewards who will only fight in a pack and i do not respect them one iota.

There are plenty of decent people here who would never dream of becoming violent, and have respect for others. I don't like to be down on the lot of them, there is an unsettling undercurrent that is ever-present in these kind of circumstances though, if you're a farang.

 

I too have witnessed some similar things myself - unfair fights involving security / Thais in the street. The fellow Thais will come to the aid of each other without a moment's thought for the context of the fight or it's cause - especially if they even suspect a foreigner has been disrespectful or initiated it. Anyone who knows Thailand knows that this is the case, this shouldn't be disputed (but often is by people who have a chip on their shoulder or no idea of they're talking about). Thais don't like to fight fair. You very rarely see a one on one, especially when it's involving a foreigner. Hence the xenophobic nature of many of these attacks shouldn't be understated,

 

'will only fight in a pack and i do not respect them one iota.' - my thoughts exactly, because by and large, it is true.

Edited November 1, 2019 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

You think 50 year old is weak or incapable ? Some strange 50 year olds you hang around with. 
 

50 year olds I hang around with , lift heavier than me and punch punching bags harder than me . 

 

 

How much could the victim in this topic lift and how hard could he punch? And he was not 50 year old, he was 55.

 

Obviously he could not have been as tough as you or your cronies or he would not be where he is now.

[Jimbo2014]

The Thai bouncer through a very violent punch in the footage.  All I could see was the tourist trying to back off and guard himself.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Jimbo2014 said:

The Thai bouncer through a very violent punch in the footage.  All I could see was the tourist trying to back off and guard himself.

Take your rose tinted glasses off and watch it again.

[soistalker]

All thais know they can assault you and get away with it. 

[raccos21]

Damn this place is really gone crazy.

[Kevbo]

14 hours ago, Yinn said:

He throws a punch to the air as he is approached by two Thai men - and is then hit to the floor with one horror punch.

 

 

And ?

[FritsSikkink]

15 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

High Season: "Tourists will be safe and we will be good hosts" says tourist police chief

Lets just forget he threw the first punch

[DaveE13]

2 hours ago, BestB said:

You think 50 year old is weak or incapable ? Some strange 50 year olds you hang around with. 
 

50 year olds I hang around with , lift heavier than me and punch punching bags harder than me . 

I been in Security industry in uk for 28 years. Have a CP Licence (Close Protection) not worked doors for years but believe me some nasty fellas in their 50s were working them in the 80s in East London and Essex. Just look at Lenny McLean he was head door man at the Hippodrome and punched a drunk tourist who hit his head later died. Got off too.

[NoshowJones]

12 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes it is .

Try looking at the news from other countries and you will see similar things happening 

A few years back when I was over in Glasgow, four Eastern Europeans were walking in the opposite direction towards me. and all were shouting at me in their own language, I move away to the outside of the pavement to let them pass.

 

One made a move towards me quickly shouting violently, I was watching the situation, and very quickly, I ran round him and just kept running, luckily I was a fast runner, but nothing like that has ever happened to me in Thailand.

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

After watching the video, it's clear that the victim was trying to leave, but the 2 guys were not happy with it, and wanted to give him a lesson.

I don't really understand why someone would defend those thugs.

Sadly there are those who share the same mind set and who would secretly or openly applaud the liberty taking vermin who attacked this unfortunate fellow.

 

Bouncers the world over are rarely known for their intelligence or sense of fair play.

[FritsSikkink]

14 hours ago, donnacha said:

That he tried calling 911 just minutes before the attack suggests that he was the victim of a billing scam. As certain parts of their tourism industry collapse, desperate bars seem to be resorting to this stuff more frequently, and asking for evermore ridiculous amounts.

These thugs are a tiny minority that ruin it for the vast majority of decent people. Sadly, in Thailand, the entire society is structured along those lines too.

I no longer expect any common sense from the authorities in Thailand, but a smart country that did not take its tourism industry for granted would crack down hard on this stuff. Each of these reports in the victims' home countries sends a deeply negative message about Thailand, reversing millions of dollars of "Amazing Thailand" marketing. Look at that photo, he looks like a decent, happily married guy and is a veteran to boot. This story, including the shameful Thai court verdict, will run in almost every American newspaper and news channel, ten of millions of people will hear about this. These incidents are expensive for Thailand.

On entry, I would give every tourist a welcome card containing 24hr emergency numbers manned by competent English / Mandarin / Korean speakers. Hell, I would even offer an "Emergency Button" app that would instantly send their location to the local police.


 

That an ex military guy throws a punch in the air without being close to hitting someone, suggest to me he was very very drunk.

[4MyEgo]

42 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

'Ok typical Thai. To hit back. True. Sure.'

With the odds at 2+ against one - yes, it's well known to be the case here, especially when the victim is a foreigner. I can name you dozens of stories and reports in the media and through friends here of this happening. As well as personal experience. The xenophobic taint in most of these attacks shouldn't be understated. 

 

'Typical security.' - maybe in Pattaya. Not the 'typical' reaction of proper doormen in many developed nations, let me assure you. 

 

'Typical drunk Brit' - yeh, us Brits don't have a great rep in this regard, no worse than Thais though I would say. PS: I am not defending the man for being drunk (we assume this is the case) and clearly confrontational either. I am damning the 2 younger men who attacked him uneccessarily and left him for dead in the street, operating way outside their remit.

 

'I am sure in his “security in Iraq” time, he did not care if he have more on his side. Fight to win. Like army people' - pure conjecture, no response required.

 

'Typical Pattaya. Is low class place with low class sex worker and low class customer. He was married guy, alone, go the sex bar. For what?' - what does that have to do with anything, again it's conjecture and obfuscation on your behalf.

 

'Typical guy not want to pay bill.' - again more conjecture, you don't know this to be the case. It's possible he was doing a runner, I'd counter that it is just as likely that he was being fleeced by the bar-owners, a common trope in that <deleted> hole town, also possible he left without knowing he hadn't paid. In any case, does it warrant him being assaulted by 2 staff - leading to his death? 

 

'Typical accident with street fight, late night with to much alcohol. Fall. Hit the head on cement.' - Not by any means unique to Thailand, happens everywhere, there is scum everywhere. The initial (and unfair) attack is what is being condemned - the very poor way in which it was handled. Bar staff should even in Thailand be trained to deal with such situations and not turn it into a street fight, that's the point.

 

'Typical to say “typical Thai” on TVF.' - Such circumstances are I'm afraid typical here, I wouldn't state so if it weren't the case. Whether you believe me or not is your choice.

 

'This story very typical.' - That says a lot about Pattaya and the issues there then, no? Something that perhaps needs addressing, ESPECIALLY when it's a city (and a country) that relies so heavily on the money of tourists and foreign investors to survive.

 

'The court can not say it murder. Because he not dead when court case.' They could have convicted the 2 guys of GBH and the one who made contact with him with manslaughter, but hey, Thailand doesn't really have a court system or functioning judiciary, let's not pretend otherwise, you'd only make yourself look foolish if you tried.

 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with you on this, and you summed it up brilliantly in another post as well.

 

For future reference, try to avoid posting stuff to the person you responded to for what it's worth as you will save a lot of time, i.e. in one and out the other, you cannot get through, I have learned its a "no can lose face" on someone's part, will leave it at that otherwise I could find myself being suspended or warned again ????

[FritsSikkink]

14 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

In a civilized country: customer refuses to pay - manager is calling the police to clarify the case. 

In Thailand: customer refuses to pay: staff is beating the hell out of him.

Dream on

[NoshowJones]

12 hours ago, Momofarang said:

No, it isn't.

Depends on what you mean by civilised, I can walk at night in the main parts of Bangkok and Pattaya without having any fears for my safety, that is definitely not the case in my home country. But again, I never drink alcohol.

[FritsSikkink]

13 hours ago, CNXexpat said:

I lived for 50 years in Hamburg, where the famous St. Pauli district and the Reeperbahn is. Many normal bars and clubs and also a red light district. I have NEVER EVER heard about a case like that. NEVER. But I heard many times that it happens in Thailand. 

I lived in the red light area in Amsterdam and it happens all the time. Seen enough videos from the UK where it happens too.

[kingofthemountain]

14 minutes ago, raccos21 said:

Damn this place is really gone crazy.

The place is as usual, and it's what you do with it

i come in Pattaya since 20 years, i live here full time since 2 years

and never had a problem with a fight. I have just been lucky?

The only few fights i have seen it was drunks foreigners looking for troubles.

[Scouse123]

2 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

Wasn't always the case in the UK. Certainly not in the 70s. Don't forget that Thailand is at least 50 years behind the West.

 

Not in their pricing structures for drinks in bars and clubs they're not! They are well in front.

 

It is now more expensive for hookers and a night out in Thailand than Europe these days, unless you want the over 50s club in Soi 6 Pattaya.

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Your opinion only. Still, seeking to defend thuggery - great look. 

 

Stay classy mate. You belong in Pattaya.

Oi, I go to Pattaya.

 

And I'm on your side!

[mauGR1]

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

Sadly there are those who share the same mind set and who would secretly or openly applaud the liberty taking vermin who attacked this unfortunate fellow.

 

Bouncers the world over are rarely known for their intelligence or sense of fair play.

Well, i respect before judging the individual, and it must be said that a certain kind of entertainment venues need bouncers to keep the order when customers are unruly and dangerous.

I once had a chat with one bouncer, quite a decent guy, working for a big disco at home country, and he told me that they must be professional in dealing with hot situations, which is not always easy, of course.

Those people are trained in martial arts, and they are surely prosecuted if they are unnecessarily violent.

In this case we have 2 guys against one, hunting him on the street, and punching him on the head with extreme violence.

That's the work of criminals rather than bouncers imho.

[FritsSikkink]

11 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

I'd need to see the CCTV evidence first

So look at video first before you sprout nonsense.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, Momofarang said:

My CV looks a little bit like that, so I have now to accept that any pack of uncivilized, uneducated, drugged up Thai thug  is entitled to beat me to death?

Where is your proof the bouncer was drugged up? You can clearly see from the missed punch of the westerner he was drunk like a skunk.

[yogi100]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

He wasn't knocked out because of the punch, hardly connected. He fell over and banged his head hard on the ground due to the bouncer carrering into him and him being drunk.

How did hitting the back of his head which is the part of it that hit the ground when he fell account for the damage to the right frontal lobe which is the injury that the coroner claimed to have killed him.

 

You actually see a blow delivered by the Thai bouncer connecting with the front part of his head. The right frontal lobe is situated at the front of the head.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

Not gone down very well in the foreign press with many comments along the lines of don't go to Thailand, Pattaya is just a brothel and there is no justice in Thailand etc. There is no evidence the customer hit anyone first, a swipe in the air with no chance of contact is not a threat or an attack. He was obviously scammed and backing out of the place not attacking when he was killed by the bouncer, or in this case murderer.

There is no proof he was scammed, you are making things up.