O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

ust a small point, but Thailand is a third world country with low wages compared to the west.

NHS want 625 pounds/year to buy in, that's 50 pounds/month (2,000bht).

Why are you suggesting Thailand charges double when it's wages and costs are 1/10?

 

I think Thai the current price of around 500bht is the right price.

I agree it could be much less than what I proposed  but I used 4500 Baht per month as an arguing point .  I have no access to any real statistics in Thailand.   If they placed a 500 Baht charge per month on all long stayers AND tourists- there would be a huge post of money in the system at the end of year one/

[UKresonant]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Just a small point, but Thailand is a third world country with low wages compared to the west.

NHS want 625 pounds/year to buy in, that's 50 pounds/month (2,000bht).

Why are you suggesting Thailand charges double when it's wages and costs are 1/10?

 

I think Thai the current price of around 500bht is the right price.

I was thinking that (ref #1923), even if the GBP recovered to say 48THB/GBP, that would be 2500 baht a month, whats would the other 2000THB be for? 

Such a 2000 baht a month could perhaps be more appropriately be used by an individual, to invest in a Thai health care Mutual Fund. Then use the dividends from such a fund to take the edge off the 2500 treatment allocation, then if you have to leave Thailand you can sell your unit-share holding,  or even if you pop your clogs, take a standard charge and return the remainder of the value to your estate.  

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Your point is well made- however- as long as neither Bernie or Elizabeth Warren win- what will happen initially is a Medicare option will be listed as part of Obama care and the cost of this option will be much less than what other insurance plans provide. The Medicare option may also include Dental and Vision which the other for profit companies will not provide.

 

Medicare actually is one of the US Government programs that works well.  As the US population starts to realize how much money they will save and get quality care- more individualss and companies will opt for the Medicare plan.

 

Insurance companies within 30 years will either cease to exist or match Medicare prices.  Big Pharma will also feel the pinch as part of Medicare will allow foreign sourced drugs that are much cheaper and also allow foreign options for treatment.

 

It's coming but it will take a few decades  before the full impact takes affect.

 

Americans are fed up with greedy insurance companies and parmaceutical companies that  put outraegous prices on medicines and insurance companies pay it and simply pass the costs onto the consumer.

 

 

I finally agree with you, mostly because this is different than what you have been preaching all along.

"Medicare for All" won't happen. Unions don't want it. No one with employer paid insurance wants it.

And unless the Dems win the Senate, almost nothing happens.

Under the current Obamacare program in NYS, my wife and I (each under 65) are entitled to a health insurance policy with unlimited coverage, no deductibles, and almost no copays; all for $20 a month. All I have to do is keep my taxable income below a specific threshold. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to pay for a mostly useless Thai policy.

 

But back to this thread and Thailand, I was the one who asked about converting an O-A to an O based on what Phuket Immigration stated. A friend of mine on a retirement EOS based on an original O-A misinterpreted what I told him and went to Immigration and asked them to do just that. They explained what they needed. he's going to follow all their steps and go back on Monday to see if they will actually convert his visa. I'll report back as soon as I hear back from him.

[moontang]

47 minutes ago, el jefe said:

I finally agree with you, mostly because this is different than what you have been preaching all along.

"Medicare for All" won't happen. Unions don't want it. No one with employer paid insurance wants it.

And unless the Dems win the Senate, almost nothing happens.

Under the current Obamacare program in NYS, my wife and I (each under 65) are entitled to a health insurance policy with unlimited coverage, no deductibles, and almost no copays; all for $20 a month. All I have to do is keep my taxable income below a specific threshold. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to pay for a mostly useless Thai policy.

 

But back to this thread and Thailand, I was the one who asked about converting an O-A to an O based on what Phuket Immigration stated. A friend of mine on a retirement EOS based on an original O-A misinterpreted what I told him and went to Immigration and asked them to do just that. They explained what they needed. he's going to follow all their steps and go back on Monday to see if they will actually convert his visa. I'll report back as soon as I hear back from him.

it does vary by state, but a zero deductible sounds more like a Medicaid plan..and a) you are not covered in LOS, and b) if you receive Medicaid services over age 55, they will get priority to take it from your estate.The Obama care subsidies are diffetent, because you have to stay below a certain level, but above a certain level, too.  I know people coming in at about 15000 per year, and get the full subsidy, but it has a 7500 deductible.  And they have to pay 15.3% self employment tax, and would have to pay the subsidy back if they earn more, or if they get called out by the IRS, all bets are off.

Edited November 29, 2019 by moontang

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Just a small point, but Thailand is a third world country with low wages compared to the west.

NHS want 625 pounds/year to buy in, that's 50 pounds/month (2,000bht).

Why are you suggesting Thailand charges double when it's wages and costs are 1/10?

 

Huge difference between aged retirees and general mixed age population.. 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

I finally agree with you, mostly because this is different than what you have been preaching all along.

"Medicare for All" won't happen. Unions don't want it. No one with employer paid insurance wants it.

And unless the Dems win the Senate, almost nothing happens.

Under the current Obamacare program in NYS, my wife and I (each under 65) are entitled to a health insurance policy with unlimited coverage, no deductibles, and almost no copays; all for $20 a month. All I have to do is keep my taxable income below a specific threshold. That's one of the reasons why I don't want to pay for a mostly useless Thai policy.

It is different because the majority of Americans cannot fathom insurance companies  being eliminated although that is exactly what will eventually happen  if Medicare For All lives up to its plan.   IMO- once Companies see that  the plan really works and is cheaper than for profit insurance- they will choose it for their workers.

 

The key is that the people choose it and it is not forced upon the people.

 

However, if Trump wins all bets are off- nothing will change- but that is up to the electorate.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

Huge difference between aged retirees and general mixed age population.. 

The whole concept  of insurance is that the younger population whiich outnumbers the elderly will provide enough income through  premiums to pay for the elderly person's health care costs and  then when the younger population reaches  the ageof being elderly- they in turn will get the benefit.

 

The problem has been with for profit insurance huge  premium increases that are not affordable due to greed. In adition- Big Pharma feeds the trough by  making life saving medicines unaffordable. Both are vultures that dine off the back of  the ill.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

However.The plan I proposed  puts the monthly cost  for a foreigner to have Thai Government insurance at 4500 Baht per month. That is the same cost of a US citizen getting coverage under the US Medicare program.   If the Us medical system can do it- which is the costliest system in the World- I have to believe the Thai system cannot only do it but make a profit.

Again.. Mixing and matching your data sets.. That is not the cost for a retiree only group.. 

 

Quote

Every foreign National Health system allows foreigners residing long term in their country to buy into their  countries system.  Most Governments all ow equal access but charge the foreigners a surcharge above what their own citizens pay.

False. Please show the way to buy into the Cambodian Laos Philippine Burmese Malay Indonesian Vietnamese etc health programs.. Ohh that doesnt exist.. So no where else in SE Asia can a 1 year visa class buy in without working ?? 

Secondly, this is for non immigrant class folks.. This isnt for people with PR or citizenship who do have a way to buy into the Thai healthcare system as resident. Non immigrant means exactly that, comply or leave, there is no guarantee whatsoever that your next extension of stay will be granted or that the rules will be to your liking, or even possible to comply with, this is the nature of 'non immigrant' class stays. 

 

None of that is a 'human right' issue.. We live on the whims of Thai immigration rule changes until we either get PR or citizenship. 

[moe666]

On 11/6/2019 at 1:41 PM, Genericnic said:

You are right. It is expensive. But as Sheryl noted in her prior posts, the required insurance is totally inadequate for anything remotely major. In my case, I have coverage from my retirement plan that covers me anywhere in the world with unlimited IPD and unlimited OPD coverage and the insurance doesn't expire - at least until I do. ???? While they do provide a form to be signed by foreign insurance companies, I can't imagine getting that done by any reputable insurance company since it requires the signatures of two directors and something called an "Authorized Signature." And since I am now 70 years old, getting coverage under the Thai policies would, of course, be problematic and expensive especially when you consider the cost of my coverage is US$0.00. So purchasing insurance from a Thai company would be a large waste of money for me. 

 

David

Change your O-A to a Non-O. A friend who is 78 and the cost of the insurance is 390,000b almost the same price as the pay out. He will be getting a Non-O visa to replace his O-A

[el jefe]

47 minutes ago, moontang said:

it does vary by state, but a zero deductible sounds more like a Medicaid plan..and a) you are not covered in LOS, and b) if you receive Medicaid services over age 55, they will get priority to take it from your estate.The Obama care subsidies are diffetent, because you have to stay below a certain level, but above a certain level, too.  I know people coming in at about 15000 per year, and get the full subsidy, but it has a 7500 deductible.  And they have to pay 15.3% self employment tax, and would have to pay the subsidy back if they earn more, or if they get called out by the IRS, all bets are off.

This has nothing to do with the IRS subsidy. And you only have to pay the 15.3 % self-employment tax if you have income from self employment, which I do not. My plan is on the NYS Exchange and has nothing to do with Medicaid. In fact, if my income went too low, I would be eligible for a Medicaid plan and then they would come after my assets. I'm covered for emergencies here in Thailand, if I'm admitted in to the hospital. No outpaient coverage so it doesn't qualify. But you obviously know more about my plan than I do.

[LivinLOS]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The whole concept  of insurance is that the younger population whiich outnumbers the elderly will provide enough income through  premiums to pay for the elderly person's health care costs and  then when the younger population reaches  the ageof being elderly- they in turn will get the benefit.

And again.. Why should Thai youth.. Pay out for wealthy western retirees, who never paid in for them or thier countrymen.. 

 

There is a cost to a closed pool of old farangs to self fund.. And having costed it, thats +- the price the insurance is !!! Its not liek the insurance companys are making 10x multiple profits, thats how expensive it is to treat that closed group. 

[moontang]

11 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The whole concept  of insurance is that the younger population whiich outnumbers the elderly will provide enough income through  premiums to pay for the elderly person's health care costs and  then when the younger population reaches  the ageof being elderly- they in turn will get the benefit.

 

The problem has been with for profit insurance huge  premium increases that are not affordable due to greed. In adition- Big Pharma feeds the trough by  making life saving medicines unaffordable. Both are vultures that dine off the back of  the ill.

You are admitting that it is a pyramid scheme, requiring more at the bottom paying in, than at the top collecting..you also fail to address the rapidly aging societies and flat population growth.  

Edited November 29, 2019 by moontang

[Genericnic]

6 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Change your O-A to a Non-O. A friend who is 78 and the cost of the insurance is 390,000b almost the same price as the pay out. He will be getting a Non-O visa to replace his O-A

that is my plan when I return in January.

 

David

[LivinLOS]

14 minutes ago, moontang said:

You are admitting that it is a pyramid scheme, requiring more at the bottom paying in, than at the top collecting..you also fail to address the rapidly aging societies and flat population growth.  

Not only that but the ones expecting to step in and benefit from the pyramid are folks coming for far wealthier societies, retiring with money or pensions, epecting to be paid for by those at the bottom who get none of those things. 

[GeorgeCross]

23 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Change your O-A to a Non-O. A friend who is 78 and the cost of the insurance is 390,000b almost the same price as the pay out. He will be getting a Non-O visa to replace his O-A

 

this cannot be true, none of the companies offer new policies to over 75s and the requirement only came in 1 month ago!

 

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and a reply to it has been removed.

This topic has drifted off with a lot of discussion about other countries insurance and etc. 

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

None of that is a 'human right' issue.. We live on the whims of Thai immigration rule changes until we either get PR or citizenship. 

I.m not in the least worried about not being able to remain in Thailand. I have been coming to Thailand since 1971- been through every coup since then and have had every type of Visa they offered at the time except PR. I undeestand the ins and outs of working with the Thai system and the Thai Government.

 

However= I will continue to send my letters in support of my fellow expats who are having trouble. You can do what you want but  why you criticize people for trying to be proactive is beyond  my conception.  It's our time- not yours. 

 

You and I will never agree on this issue , you don't even admit that  Healthcare is a human right.  And frankly- it doesn't matter becaause neither you nor I have access to the people that count.

 

By the way- I have no insight into the  health systems of the countries you mentioned but I am aware thate the Phillipines allows a buy in as well as Mexico' every European Union country; Japan; Canada; Aaustralia and probably more. .

 

However , what does it matter- we are in Thailand and as of right now there is no buy in and knowing Thailand like I do it won't happen unless the major Embassies are able to put enough pressure on the  leadership to  make their plan reasonable.  

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

And again.. Why should Thai youth.. Pay out for wealthy western retirees, who never paid in for them or thier countrymen.. 

I don't think there's many Thai youths paying into any health schemes, private or government.

Anyway, had enough of your Insurance company loving posts, there's a nasty edge of meanness about them I just don't want to read, on ignore.

Edited November 29, 2019 by BritManToo

[lkv]

@LivinLOS do not panic, we are all on his ignore, myself included. ????????????????

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, lkv said:

@LivinLOS do not panic, we are all on his ignore, myself included. ????????????????

Is 23,000+ posts a Thaivisa record? 

Edited November 29, 2019 by DrJack54

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Is 23,000+ posts a Thaivisa record? 

Yes. That is the record. 

 

Next... 

[OneeyedJohn]

I just looked at my passport and can't even work out what type of visa I have....all I know is that for the last three years I have had an extension based on retirement.

There are so many f**king stamps , not in chronological order in my passport it is almost impossible to trace my travel history.

Plus there is so much shiite stapled to pages everywhere it is impossible to make sense of it.

Edited November 29, 2019 by OneeyedJohn

[OneeyedJohn]

39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes. That is the record. 

 

Next... 

says he with 99 thousand four hundred and sixty seven posts.

[lopburi3]

3 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I just looked at my passport and can't even work out what type of visa I have....all I know is that for the last three years I have had an extension based on retirement.

There are so many f**king stamps , not in chronological order in my passport it is almost impossible to trace my travel history.

Plus there is so much shiite stapled to pages everywhere it is impossible to make sense of it.

It would be the entry that you first extended.

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, OneeyedJohn said:

I just looked at my passport and can't even work out what type of visa I have....all I know is that for the last three years I have had an extension based on retirement.

There are so many f**king stamps , not in chronological order in my passport it is almost impossible to trace my travel history.

Plus there is so much shiite stapled to pages everywhere it is impossible to make sense of it.

Did you apply for your Non Imm Visa while in Thailand, after arriving there Visa exempt or on a Tourist Visa?

If so you definitely have a Non Imm O Visa.

If you applied for a Non Imm Visa in your home country look what the Visa sticker says which they put in your passport after having been approved.

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

I.m not in the least worried about not being able to remain in Thailand. I have been coming to Thailand since 1971- been through every coup since then and have had every type of Visa they offered at the time except PR. I undeestand the ins and outs of working with the Thai system and the Thai Government.

 

However= I will continue to send my letters in support of my fellow expats who are having trouble. You can do what you want but  why you criticize people for trying to be proactive is beyond  my conception.  It's our time- not yours. 

 

You and I will never agree on this issue , you don't even admit that  Healthcare is a human right.  And frankly- it doesn't matter becaause neither you nor I have access to the people that count.

 

By the way- I have no insight into the  health systems of the countries you mentioned but I am aware thate the Phillipines allows a buy in as well as Mexico' every European Union country; Japan; Canada; Aaustralia and probably more. .

 

However , what does it matter- we are in Thailand and as of right now there is no buy in and knowing Thailand like I do it won't happen unless the major Embassies are able to put enough pressure on the  leadership to  make their plan reasonable.  

I wrote a letter to the US Embassy. Their reply contained misstatements of facts and a link to the new rules. Nothing useful or even hopeful. So good luck with expecting pressure from foreign embassies to force a change.
I'm with LivinLOS. Healthcare is no more of a human right than food. I don't see anyone offering free food. And please don't reply with "homeless shelters...."

[lkv]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Is 23,000+ posts a Thaivisa record? 

That number is called "community reputation", and is calculated as a sum of reactions given to posts. 

Edited November 29, 2019 by lkv

[deej]

The long and short of it.

After near 2000 posts and approx 1 month

This thread  is dead in the water.

And which ever .anyone looks at it correctly

We are guests of Thailand.

and must cross their bridges as we come to them .(whether good or bad)

Presently there are options to sidestep the Medical Ins  Cover for  Old Timers as discussed on this thread.

In summing up (IMO) the Govt need our presence retiring here .as we all spend baht in many circles etc etc

If they continue with this present Mickey Mouse Charade  .

It will be larger then a blip on the their Radar screen as suggested on a post earlier

Us expats  do spend a substantial sums of Baht each month in many areas of the econemy

And they know that !!!!

Relax is my cue card

 

 

 

[spetersen]

Would'n it be nice to consider to close this thread. Its just a bunch of speculations on 131 pages and lot of BS, and as of today there is some hard evidence with a new or old O-A visa health insurance is required from government from approved health insurance companies. Try to se this with bright eyes and relax, if you don't afford health insurance go back to your home country or go the other suggested way, and who knows what happen in the near future at immigration, looks like todays report in the news the turism incl. expat sector suffering a lot. Changes to current regulations might come sooner than later. Cheers everyone. 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, deej said:

We are guests of Thailand.

Not for much longer.