2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That would have been the case had Vern not taken Musk to court and cleared his name of the allegations 

A difficult nut to crack indeed.

IMO if he had not made a big deal out out of it, it would had being localised to those who follow Musk's twits, and even there only to those who caught that one out of the hundreds of twits he sends. I certainly would not have known anything about it.Probably not you either. 

But I could be wrong, it is only my opinion. 

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

A difficult nut to crack indeed.

IMO if he had not made a big deal out out of it, it would had being localised to those who follow Musk's twits, and even there only to those who caught that one out of the hundreds of twits he sends. I certainly would not have known anything about it.Probably not you either. 

But I could be wrong, it is only my opinion. 

The tweets made by Musk were World headline news on the day they were published, as were the subsequent tweets,  before Vern even responded to them 

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The tweets made by Musk were World headline news on the day they were published, as were the subsequent tweets,  before Vern even responded to them 

You could be right, I did not follow this until later, do you have any links of this? Regardless I still think this could had being handled better and diffused earlier.with a win/win resolution. 

8 minutes ago, sirineou said:

You could be right, I did not follow this until later, do you have any links of this? Regardless I still think this could had being handled better and diffused earlier.with a win/win resolution. 

I watched the story unfold and followed it closely and can remember and remember from the media reports of Musk posting the tweets and also their deletions 24 hours later .

I have no links, just the memory of it happening .

There were threads about it here on TV

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

I watched the story unfold and followed it closely and can remember and remember from the media reports of Musk posting the tweets and also their deletions 24 hours later .

I have no links, just the memory of it happening .

There were threads about it here on TV

As I said IMO it should had ended when Musk apologised. But what do i know, if the shoe was on the other foot not sure how I would had reacted, Easy to Monday morning quarterback.  

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I watched the story unfold and followed it closely and can remember and remember from the media reports of Musk posting the tweets and also their deletions 24 hours later .

For those of us that enjoy the occasional beer and funny cigarette we can empathise the sudden deletion of our not-so-well-thought-out posts.  Been there done that.  LOL. 

 

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

As I said IMO it should had ended when Musk apologised. But what do i know, if the shoe was on the other foot not sure how I would had reacted, Easy to Monday morning quarterback.  

Musk never did apologise to Vern or retract the allegation .

Musk only apologised to the board members of his company after they forced him to after they threatened to oust him .

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Musk never did apologise to Vern or retract the allegation .

Musk only apologised to the board members of his company after they forced him to after they threatened to oust him .

Elon Musk apologizes for calling the British cave diver a “pedo guy”

14 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Elon Musk apologizes for calling the British cave diver a “pedo guy”

That provides a link to this thread 

26 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Musk never did apologise to Vern or retract the allegation .

Musk only apologised to the board members of his company after they forced him to after they threatened to oust him .

More untruths.  Once again, taking an interest in, and valuing, the "simple" things would be helpful here, as Musk did indeed apologise to Vern.  If Vern chose not to accept it, it still does not negate the fact that the apology was made.  See the following link for evidence:

https://qz.com/1330546/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-diver-vernon-unsworth-a-pedophile/

 

He is there quoted in a tweet as saying: "Nonetheless, his actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone.

 

8,361

1:41 PM - Jul 18, 2018"

 

Furthermore, Musk apologised to Unsworth in court, as is reported here: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1212982/elon-musk-court-case-pedo-guy-tweet-vernon-unsworth-thailand-diver-trapped-boys-cave

 

In that news article on this subject, the following statement appears:

 

The Tesla founder apologised directly to the British diver in court, looking at him and saying: “I apologised in a tweet and again in the deposition, and I’ll say it again: I apologise to Mr Unsworth.”

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Musk only apologised to the board members of his company after they forced him to after they threatened to oust him .

There's a very good legal argument as to why he shouldn't.

 

18 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

More untruths.  Once again, taking an interest in, and valuing, the "simple" things would be helpful here, as Musk did indeed apologise to Vern.  If Vern chose not to accept it, it still does not negate the fact that the apology was made.  See the following link for evidence:

https://qz.com/1330546/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-diver-vernon-unsworth-a-pedophile/

 

He is there quoted in a tweet as saying: "Nonetheless, his actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone.

 

8,361

1:41 PM - Jul 18, 2018"

It would be nice if we could discuss things with the accusation of lying .

I shall not converse with you, if you call me liar

Retract that allegation, then I shall reply , if not, talk to yourself 

15 minutes ago, sanemax said:

That provides a link to this thread 

Sory , I did not follow the link. Thief forum does not allow me to follow the link before I post it

here is what I hope is a better link, 

https://qz.com/1330546/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-diver-vernon-unsworth-a-pedophile/

 

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

No, Musk didnt apologise to Unsworth , Musk apologised to his board members for writing those tweets , which is quite different to apologising to Unsowrth and retracting the allegations , which musk didnt do

Really? Here's the apology "to Mr. Unsworth" et al. Normally, this should be good 'nuff unless perhaps lawyers have stoked hope for groveling and a huge payout in the land of "jackpot justice":

 

. . . my words were spoken in anger . . . this actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone.

 

The tweet containing the apology is still sitting there. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1019471467304513537

 

That Twitter thread BTW is an example of why comments on Twitter aren't taken too seriously owing to the lies, insults, hype, and nonsense posted on there constantly.

 

And where's Unsworth's apology to Musk? Oh. Well, better just to take it on the chin.

1 minute ago, BigStar said:

Really? Here's the apology "to Mr. Unsworth" et al. Normally, this should be good 'nuff unless perhaps lawyers have stoked hope for groveling and a huge payout in the land of "jackpot justice":

 

. . . my words were spoken in anger . . . this actions against me do not justify my actions against him, and for that I apologize to Mr. Unsworth and to the companies I represent as leader. The fault is mine and mine alone.

 

The tweet containing the apology is still sitting there. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1019471467304513537

 

That Twitter thread BTW is an example of why comments on Twitter aren't taken too seriously owing to the lies, insults, hype, and nonsense posted on there constantly.

 

And where's Unsworth's apology to Musk? Oh. Well, better just to take it on the chin.

 

Once he gets Musks legal fees bill and court fees, he might offer little more than apologies ????

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Sory , I did not follow the link. Thief forum does not allow me to follow the link before I post it

here is what I hope is a better link, 

https://qz.com/1330546/elon-musk-apologizes-for-calling-cave-diver-vernon-unsworth-a-pedophile/

 

Yes, but after those Tweets , Musk went on to make further tweets , where he made the allegation again and made further allegations of a similar nature.

  Musk also never retracted the original allegation, he just apologised for stating the allegation .

  Musk was also forced to say the original "apology" by his company .

Musk did apologise for sending the tweets , but he never did retract the allegations that those tweets contained 

 

30 minutes ago, torturedsole said:

There's a very good legal argument as to why he shouldn't.

 

Which is ?

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It would be nice if we could discuss things with the accusation of lying .

I shall not converse with you, if you call me liar

Retract that allegation, then I shall reply , if not, talk to yourself 

I assume you meant "without" instead of "with."  But I didn't accuse you of lying.  Please pay attention to the details.  I said simply that what you had posted was not true.  I did not call you a liar.  I see you simply as inattentive to detail and misinformed.  Stating that what you had posted was not true is not the same as calling you a liar.  Since I didn't call you a liar, and since what I posted was factual, would you like me to apologise for it?

 

To my mind, lying implies intent.  I did not address any intentions, for I cannot know them in your case.  I am not able to retract something I have not said.

9 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I assume you meant "without" instead of "with."  But I didn't accuse you of lying.  Please pay attention to the details.  I said simply that what you had posted was not true.  I did not call you a liar.  I see you simply as inattentive to detail and misinformed.  Stating that what you had posted was not true is not the same as calling you a liar.  Since I didn't call you a liar, and since what I posted was factual, would you like me to apologise for it?

 

To my mind, lying implies intent.  I did not address any intentions, for I cannot know them in your case.  I am not able to retract something I have not said.

I replied to your post to sirineou above , he posted the same link as you did and I replied to him , dont want a silly childish squabble with you 

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but after those Tweets , Musk went on to make further tweets , where he made the allegation again and made further allegations of a similar nature.

  Musk also never retracted the original allegation, he just apologised for stating the allegation .

  Musk was also forced to say the original "apology" by his company .

Musk did apologise for sending the tweets , but he never did retract the allegations that those tweets contained 

 

Regardless , IMO Musk offered an olive branch and Vernon refused to take it, after that the tit for tat started IMO . I am a conflict resolution type of personality with the best outcomes in mind, and IMO this conflict was not resolved in the best possible way,and the outcomes for Vern were not the best. Musk has probably already forgotten about it.

 Bigger fish to fry

9 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Regardless , IMO Musk offered an olive branch and Vernon refused to take it, after that the tit for tat started IMO . I am a conflict resolution type of personality with the best outcomes in mind, and IMO this conflict was not resolved in the best possible way,and the outcomes for Vern were not the best. Musk has probably already forgotten about it.

 Bigger fish to fry

In what way did Vern refuse to accept the olive branch ?

As far as I recall, Vern didnt publicly reply , I dont think he uses social media .

After the offered olive branch, that would probably have been the end of it , it was the further subsequent untrue  tweets by Musk that caused the issue to continue

29 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Yes, but after those Tweets , Musk went on to make further tweets , where he made the allegation again and made further allegations of a similar nature.

  Musk also never retracted the original allegation, he just apologised for stating the allegation .

  Musk was also forced to say the original "apology" by his company .

Musk did apologise for sending the tweets , but he never did retract the allegations that those tweets contained 

 

 

You keep using the word "allegations". The problem is that this is highly dubious. Legally, nobody has shown that this outburst by Musk amounted to a genuine allegation. It was merely name calling. Childish, sure. But it was never proven to be an allegation. In fact, the plaintiff never even attempted to suggest that in court, and he certainly had more than enough opportunity.

 

A retraction, like you seem to demand, would have given it a legal status that it did not have. Musk couldn't do that, even if he wanted to.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

A difficult nut to crack indeed.

IMO if he had not made a big deal out out of it, it would had being localised to those who follow Musk's twits, and even there only to those who caught that one out of the hundreds of twits he sends. I certainly would not have known anything about it.Probably not you either. 

But I could be wrong, it is only my opinion. 

Musk's twits ????

13 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

You keep using the word "allegations". The problem is that this is highly dubious. Legally, nobody has shown that this outburst by Musk amounted to a genuine allegation. It was merely name calling. Childish, sure. But it was never proven to be an allegation. In fact, the plaintiff never even attempted to suggest that in court, and he certainly had more than enough opportunity.

 

A retraction, like you seem to demand, would have given it a legal status that it did not have. Musk couldn't do that, even if he wanted to.

 

 

 

Stating categorically that Vern married a pre teen girl is an allegation, rather than just name calling .

Calling someone a pedo may just be considered to be name calling , but trying to prove that a person is a pedo (by lying) is indeed an allegation .

  I have not demanded a retraction  , my point was that had Musk retracted the allegation, that would probably have been the end of it 

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

In what way did Vern refuse to accept the olive branch ?

As far as I recall, Vern didnt publicly reply , I dont think he uses social media .

After the offered olive branch, that would probably have been the end of it , it was the further subsequent untrue  tweets by Musk that caused the issue to continue

Unsworth was never going to accept the apology because he was planning to sue him for $190 mil.
Well anyway now he got zilch and will probably have to pay Court fees.
Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't start a Go Fund me to pay that off.

54 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Unsworth was never going to accept the apology because he was planning to sue him for $190 mil.
Well anyway now he got zilch and will probably have to pay Court fees.
Wouldn't be surprised if he didn't start a Go Fund me to pay that off.

Would Unsworth accepting an apology make Musk exempt from any legal action ?

How does the law work in the USA ?

If i were to rob a bank and then said sorry on the way out and the bank manager accepted my apology, what that be the end of it and the Police wouldnt arrest me ?

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Would Unsworth accepting an apology make Musk exempt from any legal action ?

How does the law work in the USA ?

If i were to rob a bank and then said sorry on the way out and the bank manager accepted my apology, what that be the end of it and the Police wouldnt arrest me ?

 

Then you would go to trial and a jury would decide one way or the other and that would be the end of it. I think that's where this is now.

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

In what way did Vern refuse to accept the olive branch ?

 

Musk publicly  apologised  and Vernon did not reciprocate 

33 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Musk publicly  apologised  and Vernon did not reciprocate 

Well, as I stated, Musk  only apologised for sending the tweet , rather than the content of the tweet .

  It was like * I still think that you are a pedo, but I shouldnt had called you one because its upset my board members and they want me to stand down from my job *

   Musk also soon after began the accusations once again , a few days after the apology .

Also, I don't think that Vern is on social media , so he may not had the opportunity to reply .

Musks apology wasnt a sincere apology and he was made to do it 

 

Did the lawyers drop the ball in how they presented this case? Most of the discussion seems to have been limited to the pedo-guy comment, the meaning and context of it, and whether Musk meant it literally. Taken in isolation it'd be easy for the defence team to argue for the lawsuit to be dismissed, especially with Musk's apology, both in July last year and in court. 

 

Rather than debating on this single insult, the jurors should have been given right at the outset the whole succession of comments to deliberate on with equal weight. This could have been presented as a simple list, with everything from pedo-guy to child bride, married her at 12, child rapist, "betya a signed dollar it's true" and his provocation to sue if it wasn't. It's these subsequent comments (as well as his attempt to get a PI to uncover dirt on Unsworth) that go way further than playground insults, and indicate a malicious attempt to smear a man's character.

 

If such evidence had been properly put to the jury at the beginning it'd surely have been incontrovertible, and it'd be hard to conclude anything other than that Musk's apologies and excuses were completely insincere.