Jomtien's New Building Boom (and the Old Ocean 1 site)

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Leaver said:

Like I said, it's a tricky one for the Thai authorities.  Enforce illegal daily rental, and the property market is effected.  Do not enforce daily rental, and the hotels are effected, as are restaurants.

Sounds lucrative.. highest bidder!

[CGW]

On 12/13/2019 at 10:38 AM, Leaver said:

If this form of accommodation for tourists is allowed to continue, or even encouraged, hotels will struggle, possibly with some going broke, which means a loss of jobs.

I would add there is also a loss of income for the "government" as the large hotels all pay taxes for employees and income earned as well as charge VAT, doubt the condo leasers pay any taxes?

[dddave]

On 12/10/2019 at 12:19 PM, Guderian said:

It might explain why some of the larger new projects have a hotel attached to the condo, it would probably make using the condo units as hotel rooms much easier, and possibly even more legit.

I've always wondered if the term "Condotel" has any specific meaning and legal standing in regards to short term rental?

Anybody?

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, dddave said:

I've always wondered if the term "Condotel" has any specific meaning and legal standing in regards to short term rental?

Anybody?

"A condotel is a condominium development with a hotel licence allowing for the use of the condominium as hotel accommodation that can be offered for short term-leases (daily or weekly), whereas Thai law does not allow owners of condominiums to rent out their units for less than 30 days without a hotel licence.

To obtain a hotel licence, a condotel development must meet the minimum requirements in terms of specifications, facilities, operation and management under the Hotel Act of 2004."

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, dddave said:

I've always wondered if the term "Condotel" has any specific meaning and legal standing in regards to short term rental?

Anybody?

In fact i can now compare the 2

 

i am actualy living in a condotel, and most of the tenants are here on long term

it's very rare to see someone with a luggage at the elevator.

 

On the other hand before this i was living during 1 year in Laguna bay 1 residence

a pretty good one in pratamnak with only 7 levels highs, but unfortunately the turn over

of the daily\weekly airbnb tenants was huge (And quite anonying for the others tenants)

despite the signs everywhere in the residence claming ''short term rental are illegals''

nobody was worry about that and the ''business'' was done in front of the jusristic office.

Plus the room was small and pricey (9000\month for 23m2)  so 1 year here was enough.

 

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, newnative said:

     Hipflat shows 102 units for sale, some are duplicates from  different agencies listing the same unit, likely all resales.  Pre-construction, The Base was supposedly fully 'booked'--which does not mean 'sold', which happens when the Chanote is transferred to the buyer.  When you see SOLD OUT blasted on a billboard at a new project, it likely isn't.   When The Base actually opened and the bookers had to either actually come up with the actual money to buy their condo or sell the booking, around 300 units were turned back in to Sansiri to sell, which I think most eventually were.  it could be some buyers bought multiple units then for illegal daily rent use.

    We were one of the first buyers to close on an investment rental--and probably one of the first to try out the pools and the gym--which we noted were both small for the number of units--and where I counted the very small number of pool chairs at each pool.  

     We easily immediately found a good, long-term corporate rental with a Japanese tenant and things started fine at first but then the illegal daily renting began and we didn't like the way things were heading.  About a year after we bought, we sold at a very nice profit, mirroring what you said in your post about owners not liking the illegal daily renters and selling their units.  I'm sure there were many others like us who did the same, or leased their units to someone putting multiple units together to run an illegal boutique hotel within the complex.

    

    

One thing is for sure, The Base is now a very big hotel in the center of Pattaya, and with kitchen facilities available to tourists, not only does it take customers away from hotels, but also from restaurants. 

 

If they stopped daily renting at The Base tomorrow, I guess the place would be empty. 

[Leaver]

23 hours ago, CGW said:

I would add there is also a loss of income for the "government" as the large hotels all pay taxes for employees and income earned as well as charge VAT, doubt the condo leasers pay any taxes?

Good point, and with many of the long term lease holders being Chinese, and being back in China, the profits from the tourist's accommodation remains in China, further exacerbating the zero baht tourists issue.

[Beggar]

23 hours ago, newnative said:

    As with most things, it depends.  I know a number of older condo projects in Pattaya that are being maintained very well and are still nice places to live.   

The bigger old condo complexes I know here in Pattaya have been renting out rooms from the beginning. I have been living in one of them for two decades. Daily rentals or monthly rentals - nobody cares. And they started with this long time before Airbnb was created.

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

One thing is for sure, The Base is now a very big hotel in the center of Pattaya, and with kitchen facilities available to tourists, not only does it take customers away from hotels, but also from restaurants. 

 

If they stopped daily renting at The Base tomorrow, I guess the place would be empty. 

Not empty, but lightly used by Bangkokians as getaway condos.  Hence, the less than a dozen deck chairs at the pools when it first opened.  Some of the lobby chairs were yellow velvet--you don't use yellow velvet if you are expecting high use.

[Leaver]

17 hours ago, newnative said:

Not empty, but lightly used by Bangkokians as getaway condos.  Hence, the less than a dozen deck chairs at the pools when it first opened.  Some of the lobby chairs were yellow velvet--you don't use yellow velvet if you are expecting high use.

I'm sure there are many Thai's that bought a condo at The Base, and are putting it on AirBnB, and other sites, for lucrative daily rental. 

 

They may block a weekend on the platform here and there for themselves, or for when there is a festival here, or Songkran. 

 

I would be surprised if Thai's are also not cashing in on the lack of daily rental enforcement.

[Henryford]

Looks like Ocean 1 is rising from the grave. Not a con after all.

[tontraveller]

On 12/14/2019 at 12:01 PM, Guderian said:

I'd noticed the large plot of land next to the Kaan show being cleared and was wondering what would go on it.

It might be more Chinese entertainment, but if so it's probably nothing to do with Singha and Kaan, as they're currently trying to sell the large plot of leftover land running from the theatre up to Soi 8. Plus you've already got the more down-market Imagine 79 Chinese theatre on Soi 8 (which seems to be a lot busier than the main show these days).

With Supalai Mare nearby and the Luciano supposedly going up a bit further down Thepprasit I'd wonder if it's going to be a condo, but OTOH down in the Boondocks behind Jomtien Second Road they're building new condos next door to each other as fast as they can, so I guess it might well be another 50-storey tower block.

One of these plots  has been planted with banana trees. It has to do with the new land tax coming into effect this year. Unused land will be taxed higher then farm land.. Owners found a smart way to reduce the tax bill...

[OneZero]

Ref the picture of the old Ocean 1 site two post up, where construction has started.

If anybody on thaivisa has any solid information to enlighten us about what is going in there, appreciate reading it.

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, OneZero said:

If anybody on thaivisa has any solid information to enlighten us about what is going in there, appreciate reading it.

Does anybody have any solid information about what is going on in Pattaya, or Thailand, for that matter? 

[johng]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:01 PM, Henryford said:

Looks like Ocean 1 is rising from the grave. Not a con after all.

LOL    I'm not a structural engineer...but the photo you posted clearly shows its not going to be a 90 storey building !

building's that size have massive groundwork's that take months to build before anything gets above ground..they also have cranes..there are no cranes in your photo...  I would say it will be a 5-7 storey building.

[bkk6060]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:01 PM, Henryford said:

Looks like Ocean 1 is rising from the grave. Not a con after all.

WOW, what a view and location. That building in the background to the far left on Soi 1 is the stinkiest, filthiest, prostitute, rat and drug addict filled place maybe in all the Pattaya area.  Box rooms with no toilets or showers 2000 b a month. People come out and shower out of dirty water in trash cans. Drive past it on a motorbike and smell the urine and feces.

Good luck to those living anywhere near the place keep your masks handy.

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by bkk6060

[johng]

a few more.

 

 

 

[sscc]

Not as familiar as your guys, may I talk about few things about hotel/condo in Pattaya and Jomtien based on OWN first hand experience.   This info would also correct some misconception above. 

 

I have booked and stayed in both THE BASE and  VIEW TALAY 6  through Booking.com and Agoda.com 

 

The BASE experience was just a year ago.  As stated above,  one unit owner staff led me in,  one staff collected the rent within hours,  no cleaning or any service in contrast to  conventional service apartment (  as in Centre Point service apartment in BKK operating for 30 years ), during my 4-night stay, and I returned key on final day and left.     

 

The unit was indeed PRC owner holding a number of units in the building.  The rent is fairly close to 3* star hotel rate.  My booking is not about AirBNB at all.  I booked via booking.com,  which acted as middle party only without any money involvement.   

 

At the building security gate,  there are signs noted daily rental NOT legal and NOT allowed. 

My gutsy guess is legitimacy had been worked out by the big developer, unit purchasers and booking/agoda well in advance, and checked how to circumvent the legal necessity.   

 

Almost all short-term holiday renters are Asian face,  not all PRC as noted.   Highlight in marketing part is about the swimming pool at the roof.   Most goes up that for PHOTO-OPT rather than swimming.   I did lap swimming there 3 times out of 4 days during the peak New Year Holiday season,  and not being bothered by the photo takers.  Actually the swimming pool will continue will be the drawing card for first-timer only.  Repeated business is not really likely,  not including myself will prefer service apartment hotel or conventional hotel after the novelty. 

 

 

View Talay 6, which is just adjacent to the Hilton-Central Festival  is much older Condo building.  The unit I rented was likely owned by farang with a pretty middle-aged Thai wife/partner running the operation for him.   Cleaning service is doable only upon request.  Now will I come back to rent there again ?   Sorry no.  My closest neighbor door was banged non-stop at 4 am in one night and the corridor also got very loud argument noise in another night. 

I was staying on the top floor then and lost my sleep in two nights. The view was superb,  just no point for a repeat. 

Swimming pool there was a little dirty in my opinion. 

 

I had other observation regarding Pattaya Hotel and Jomtien condo too. 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

40 minutes ago, sscc said:

Not as familiar as your guys, may I talk about few things about hotel/condo in Pattaya and Jomtien based on OWN first hand experience.   This info would also correct some misconception above. 

 

I have booked and stayed in both THE BASE and  VIEW TALAY 6  through Booking.com and Agoda.com 

 

The BASE experience was just a year ago.  As stated above,  one unit owner staff led me in,  one staff collected the rent within hours,  no cleaning or any service in contrast to  conventional service apartment (  as in Centre Point service apartment in BKK operating for 30 years ), during my 4-night stay, and I returned key on final day and left.     

 

The unit was indeed PRC owner holding a number of units in the building.  The rent is fairly close to 3* star hotel rate.  My booking is not about AirBNB at all.  I booked via booking.com,  which acted as middle party only without any money involvement.   

 

At the building security gate,  there are signs noted daily rental NOT legal and NOT allowed. 

My gutsy guess is legitimacy had been worked out by the big developer, unit purchasers and booking/agoda well in advance, and checked how to circumvent the legal necessity.   

 

Almost all short-term holiday renters are Asian face,  not all PRC as noted. ...

 

I had other observation regarding Pattaya Hotel and Jomtien condo too. 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

Thank you for your feedback even if nothing real new in it

 

We are well aware here than airbnb isn't the only one to allow illegal short term rentals

as you write Agoda and Booking.com are in the party too, and probably some others.

 

You are wrong when you write ''I booked via booking.com,  which acted as middle party only without any money involvement.   '' of course as a middle party they have a % on the rent, so not from you but from

the owner, So they can't argue they are not ''involved'' in the illegal trade, they are because they make money with it !! 

 

Not surprising again to know the base has a lot of PRC owners and the clientele is mostly asian.

 

In VT6 you have experimented one of the problems with the turn over of short term tenants.

They don't care about the noise they do, because they don't live here more than few days.

 

It's a real problem for the owners or the long term tenants who live in these places.

 

The actual virus crisis and the fail in the customers numbers coming soon could be the opportunity 

for the hotels to ask and obtain a real enforcment of the law on the short term condo rentals

[Susco]

15 hours ago, johng said:

LOL    I'm not a structural engineer...but the photo you posted clearly shows its not going to be a 90 storey building !

building's that size have massive groundwork's that take months to build before anything gets above ground..they also have cranes..there are no cranes in your photo...  I would say it will be a 5-7 storey building.

From the foundations it indeed looks like low rise, from the price the land was listed at, even if they got only half of that a low rise isn't feasible.

[gk10002000]

And exactly where is the sewage and waste water from these hotels going to go?  Anybody seen a blueprint of piping or of a proper waste treatment plant for the area? 

[johng]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:31 AM, Susco said:

From the foundations it indeed looks like low rise, from the price the land was listed at, even if they got only half of that a low rise isn't feasible.

Well a new poster has appeared  saying it will be 2 60 storey towers and a 31 storey tower   construction time about 45 months   1487 rooms in total !

no ground works have started yet.

 

 

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 minute ago, johng said:

Well a new poster has appeared  saying it will be 2 60 storey towers and a 31 storey tower   construction time about 45 months   1487 rooms in total !

no ground works have started yet.

 

 

 

 

It's monstrous

if the project go to his end and doesn't fall like the famous Waterfront condo at Bali pier

it should be one more empty shell like most of the condos here or an airbnb ''hotel'' like the base

Imo one day all this madness is going to explode in a way or another

[johng]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:55 AM, gk10002000 said:

Anybody seen a blueprint of piping or of a proper waste treatment plant for the area? 

The sea is just a hop and a spit away.

The "treatment plant" on Soi Wat Boon still dry.

 

 

[URMySunshine]

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's monstrous

if the project go to his end and doesn't fall like the famous Waterfront condo at Bali pier

it should be one more empty shell like most of the condos here or an airbnb ''hotel'' like the base

Imo one day all this madness is going to explode in a way or another

The condo bubble is beyond mad. Two big projects on Thepprasit Road , another behind the fresh market there as well. Out walking around Phratamnak saw 3 other mega projects. Jomtien Second Road another 4 -5 projects. I've heard there are 60,000 condos in the building stage or about to be built. On top of plenty of inventory unsold - probably more like 100,000 in the Pattaya/Jomtien area. If the Chinese don't come in any great numbers or can't buy then this bubble is going to pop like none we've seen before. 

[johng]

6 minutes ago, URMySunshine said:

I've heard there are 60,000 condos in the building stage or about to be built. On top of plenty of inventory unsold -

There are still a few left over from the 1997 crash !

though they where smashing down the smaller buildings in front this morning so maybe something will finally get it finished ?

Notice the SMOG is back.

[Guderian]

19 minutes ago, johng said:

There are still a few left over from the 1997 crash !

though they where smashing down the smaller buildings in front this morning so maybe something will finally get it finished ?

Notice the SMOG is back.

 

I don't have a photo but I noticed on the weekend that they've demolished the unfinished building on the sizeable plot of land just north of Siam Commercial on Jomtien Beach Road by Soi Wat Bun. That old thing, which was just a few stories of cement and steel, has been there for ages, since before I first came to Jomtien in 2003, anyway. I guess that it was also a leftover from the 1997 crash? I wonder if it's just a general clean-up, or are they going to build something there too?

 

This is the old building I'm rambling on about, from Google Street View:

 

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Guderian

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, johng said:

The "treatment plant" on Soi Wat Boon still dry.

I don't expect everyone is holding onto their shxt!

[johng]

2 minutes ago, Guderian said:

I guess that it was also a leftover from the 1997 crash?

No that failed steel girder frame was much later..can't remember the developers name but maybe  a Keanu Reeves 3 part trilogy.

[johng]

On 12/10/2019 at 9:40 AM, 007cableguy said:

I think the Ocean one was scam from the start anyone who believed that a 90+ floor building was ever going to be built must be mad !

Now they gonna build  151 floors in the same spot ! ????