Preparing for my death.

[SteveK]

I was speaking to my wife today about what to do when I die. She has many concerns because a friend of hers had a farang husband who died, and it took a ridiculous amount of effort to get things sorted out and for her to take ownership of his estate. I suffer from a long term illness which shortens my life span considerably so just trying to be sensible rather than overly morbid here. What can I do in advance to prepare for my passing in Thailand to make things less of a headache for my wife? Does anyone know what she has to do if they find me brown bread one day? I don't really have possessions, just a bank balance. Would it be easier to just leave her my atm pin rather than have the hassle of lawyers, fees and paperwork?

[Ventenio]

giving to strangers is a guaranteed way to enter Heaven.....I can PM you my bank information, no problem.

 

if you have less than a year, just do it all now and sleep better knowing it's done and she won't have stress.  put it all in her bank account, transfer it all, and hopefully you can trust the last person who will take care of you.  and if she screws you on your last year of living, well....that's some bad luck.  good luck, i'll await the transfer.  lol

[mauGR1]

Sorry to hear that, and i'm not really an expert, but what about a joint bank account with your wife ?

[SteveK]

Just now, mauGR1 said:

Sorry to hear that, and i'm not really an expert, but what about a joint bank account with your wife ?

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

[brokenbone]

i havnt actually got any experience of being dead yet,

but my hypothesis is that if she doesnt speak

adequate english, i would have to set up a contact that works as a medium.

secondly i'd give her info how to contact embassy,

i would obviously get legal marrriage certificate

or make a will, and i would inquire embassy how to smooth things up.

 

i would probably also write a closed good bye letter

in advance, with my atm and some advice

and some butterish words,

either given to her directly or to a friend

to hand it over, depending on thrust

Edited December 19, 2019 by brokenbone

[SteveK]

That's a good idea. I will write a sealed letter to be opened upon my death with my ATM pin. No need for lawyers fees, I gather her friend that I mentioned ended up losing over 200k through them. I don't want any of my money going to lawyers if possible.

Edited December 19, 2019 by SteveK

[Beggar]

Important is that you make a will where you write down that she will be the legal owner of your possessions. If she withdraws the money with your ATM card after your death this would be theft if she has no legal title. Are there any other persons who have the right to inherit something? They could make troubles if there is no clear last will. 

[SteveK]

2 hours ago, Beggar said:

Important is that you make a will where you write down that she will be the legal owner of your possessions. If she withdraws the money with your ATM card after your death this would be theft if she has no legal title. Are there any other persons who have the right to inherit something? They could make troubles if there is no clear last will. 

No, shes's the only person in my life who could lay any claim to my assets.

[Tagged]

3 hours ago, SteveK said:

That's a good idea. I will write a sealed letter to be opened upon my death with my ATM pin. No need for lawyers fees, I gather her friend that I mentioned ended up losing over 200k through them. I don't want any of my money going to lawyers if possible.

For a last will, you need whitnesses. 

 

Found this one, and seems straight forward to me

 

https://info.legalzoom.com/make-lawyer-4213.html

[xylophone]

3 hours ago, SteveK said:

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

I can send you a Thai Will template in both English and Thai, which you can complete and give to a friend or friendly lawyer.

 

PM me if you want a copy.

[Beggar]

56 minutes ago, SteveK said:

No, shes's the only person in my life who could lay any claim to my assets.

She will not be the owner after your death if you don't help her to be it. What would you say if you are death and I find your ATM card and the PIN for it and withdraw all your money? She needs to be legally the owner of your money. I could give you the advice to give her your PIN in a letter that she gets after you are death. PERHAPS nothing would happen if there are not other people having inheritance claims. But legally it would not be correct. 

[Orton Rd]

I just made the Mrs joint signature on my account here not a joint account, she can go in and get all the cash out if I croak, no need to tell them. I do have an ATM card as back up but I never trust those things, can get stuck etc. House and car is in her name anyway so that just leave the bulk of the cash in the UK which my mate will help her sort out.

[ivor bigun]

Our uk bank accounts are joint ,she has my  pin numbers here ,i own nothing its all in her and our sons name ,i wrote a will leaving everything to her ,i also have a UK bank account in my Daughters name ,i have one card if i ever need to use it ,she has the other ,when i die its hers ,all sorted .

sorry to hear about your illness .

ps ,its dead handy trusting your wife and family ,mind you we have all been together a long time .

[DaRoadrunner]

28 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

I just made the Mrs joint signature on my account here not a joint account, she can go in and get all the cash out if I croak, no need to tell them. I do have an ATM card as back up but I never trust those things, can get stuck etc. House and car is in her name anyway so that just leave the bulk of the cash in the UK which my mate will help her sort out.

You do not trust ATM cards but you DO trust a Thai wife.... You may 'expire' before your ATM card expires! And not of natural causes!

 

The alternative is a Will, but the Thai lawyer is going to siphon off as much as he can.

Edited December 19, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[potless]

5 hours ago, SteveK said:

What can I do in advance to prepare for my passing in Thailand to make things less of a headache for my wife? Does anyone know what she has to do if they find me brown bread one day? I don't really have possessions, just a bank balance. Would it be easier to just leave her my atm pin rather than have the hassle of lawyers, fees and paperwork?

You need to make a will and get copies. One will should sit with a solicitor and at least one copy for yourselves. It should be written in Thai as that is the only thing that a court would recognise should a problem arise. It shouldnt cost much and you can sleep a bit more easily. You also get to keep control of your finances.  P.S. The wills should be sealed after you have checked them and not opened until the need arises.

Edited December 19, 2019 by potless
added something.

[Orton Rd]

3 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

You do not trust ATM cards but you DO trust a Thai wife.... You may 'expire' before your ATM card expires! And not of natural causes!

 

The alternative is a Will, but the Thai lawyer is going to siphon off as much as he can.

If you do not trust a wife you should not be with her, have wills also but easier just to go in and take the cash out

[steven100]

This topic is too sad for me …. 

[Nanglon]

Depends where you plan on croaking ..... hospital / a&e in UK may issue death certificate to all and sundry before your mate gets to hear of it thus requiring probate / lawyers / executors to access your accounts for anything other than funeral costs? But I am planning similar with ATM; have internet banking on phone, so all could be controlled by executor using payees already set up + TransferWise.

Not sure what will happen to accounts here if you are reported as being deceased?

 

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/death-and-wills/what-to-do-after-a-death/

[The Man Who Sold the World]

Hmm…

 

When you pass away – deep subject with many avenues to explore. You are asking about your specific situation, however, I’ll expand as the subject is an important one for an expat.

 

First – every person is an individual and every situation is different – so… one size does not fit all. 

 

Second – every country has different laws… again, one size does not fit all. 

 

What I did – American citizen married to a Thai citizen. 

 

Full list of all assets, real estate, automobiles/motorcycles, monetary assets, bank accounts, retirement accounts, social security benefits, full individual profiles, etc. Basically documentation concerning everything about our lives, including relatives/addresses/contact information. 

 

All this documentation was provided to a Thai Attorney (medium size firm – individual personal attorney and assistant). The documentation was also provided to an American Attorney (again, medium size firm – individual personal attorney). 

 

All details provided to both legal firms with both legal firms being fully aware of each with complete contact information. Thai firm has English speaking Attorneys, no such luck with the American firm speaking Thai).

 

Both firms provided full legal document packages concerning Last Wills and Testaments, Living Wills, Power of Attorneys, etc. Including a legal document identifying that in the event of the demise of either one of us, the other has full control of our assets including passwords, etc.

 

Both legal firms, and our brokerage firm with our retirement accounts have copies of all the legal documents in both countries – translated into both languages. 

 

As protected as I can make it.

[NCC1701A]

9 hours ago, SteveK said:

I suffer from a long term illness which shortens my life span considerably

sorry to hear this.

[bkk6060]

36 minutes ago, The Man Who Sold the World said:

Hmm…

 

When you pass away – deep subject with many avenues to explore. You are asking about your specific situation, however, I’ll expand as the subject is an important one for an expat.

 

First – every person is an individual and every situation is different – so… one size does not fit all. 

 

Second – every country has different laws… again, one size does not fit all. 

 

What I did – American citizen married to a Thai citizen. 

 

Full list of all assets, real estate, automobiles/motorcycles, monetary assets, bank accounts, retirement accounts, social security benefits, full individual profiles, etc. Basically documentation concerning everything about our lives, including relatives/addresses/contact information. 

 

All this documentation was provided to a Thai Attorney (medium size firm – individual personal attorney and assistant). The documentation was also provided to an American Attorney (again, medium size firm – individual personal attorney). 

 

All details provided to both legal firms with both legal firms being fully aware of each with complete contact information. Thai firm has English speaking Attorneys, no such luck with the American firm speaking Thai).

 

Both firms provided full legal document packages concerning Last Wills and Testaments, Living Wills, Power of Attorneys, etc. Including a legal document identifying that in the event of the demise of either one of us, the other has full control of our assets including passwords, etc.

 

Both legal firms, and our brokerage firm with our retirement accounts have copies of all the legal documents in both countries – translated into both languages. 

 

As protected as I can make it.

I congratulate you on your preparation.

This topic and information should be at the top of the list for expats who move here.

But, I am always surprised how little planning most do.

Owning condos, cars, etc. with no will or plan after their death thinking their embassy will handle things.

Leaving immediate and family in their home countries holding a bag of S...

 

Again, you have done more then most but there is another step for much better protection.

I assume those brokerage accounts and retirement accounts are still in the US.

A family trust document will protect your foreign assets from probate and taxes after death.

All those assets you have should be put in the name of the trust.

Your simple will will have to pass through probate which will include taxes and high fees and much delay for your survivors. 

Thailand does not have a trust option, but all the foreign assets can be set up this way.

The cost? I recently had a trust done in California through a paralegal for $1000.  Well worth it I think.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by bkk6060

[SteveK]

The main aim of this thread is to avoid outrageous lawyers fees. Yes, I know that leaving my ATM card and PIN is not the correct way of doing things, but would this really be considered as theft as one poster has mentioned?

[mngmn]

9 hours ago, SteveK said:

That's a good idea, but if I put all of money in there she will spend it. So most of my money will still be in my account when I die.

So she will spend it all after you die and it will have been of no benefit to her. So why worry?

[whaleboneman]

10 hours ago, SteveK said:

The main aim of this thread is to avoid outrageous lawyers fees. Yes, I know that leaving my ATM card and PIN is not the correct way of doing things, but would this really be considered as theft as one poster has mentioned?

Technically it would be theft as it’s not her account. And if the bank finds out you have died-they would probably freeze the account until the heir shows up. You need a simple will. Shop around for a reasonable fee.

Sorry to hear about your situation but glad to see you are making preparations. Enjoy every day.

[Chris Hopkins]

The most obvious and important for everyone to do is to write a will, preferably one for each jurisdiction where they have assets.  Everyone who cares about their dependants should do that. It is not expensive and can save time and money for those left behind.

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

I just made the Mrs joint signature on my account here not a joint account, she can go in and get all the cash out if I croak, no need to tell them. I do have an ATM card as back up but I never trust those things, can get stuck etc. House and car is in her name anyway so that just leave the bulk of the cash in the UK which my mate will help her sort out.

Another item to 'prepare' is what happens to your body / funeral activities, etc, Mine is set up as follows:

 

- I asked 2 hospitals in Chiang Mai if I could donate organs. I'm 75 in 10 days time. Both responded that my body is too old to use as transplants but I don't know if this is by any national policy etc.

 

- Both said that teaching hospitals might accept my body for medical students to use for surgery practice etc. But both said this would have to explored further by my next of kin (my Thai adult son) upon my death,

 

 

- Funeral etc. It's in my will (my will states clearly that my Thai son is my official NOK) and I've recently spoken again at length with my son, his Thai wife and my oldest granddaughter to ensure there is no confusion in what I want:

 

- A very simple, very inexpensive, very quick buddhist ceremony and cremation at a smaller less expensive temple, with no party whatever. Side point: My son, DIL and G'daughter initially not happy about the above 'not enough respect', But my son then convinced his wife to accept this otherwise what would very very likely occur is DIL's extended family would push for bigger ceremony, big party etc., to glorify their family (make the family look rich and important). DIL's extended family have already asked several times about who gets my money and one loud mouth has told the rest of the extended family that by Thai law they will all be rich when I die. My son got a friend who is a respected lawyer to speak to the loudmouth (son, his wife and eldest daughter all present) and make it clear that there is no such law and also tell the loudmouth to desist or maybe the rest of the family might believe he stole all the money. Loudmouth was horrified and very frightened and went silent very quickly.  

 

- I have explained to my son, his wife and daughter that my absolute priority is spend as little money as possible so as to preserve as much funds as possible for the ongoing education of my 3 granddaughters.

 

- Son spoke further, carefully with his wife, and they all agreed that no questions whatever will be accepted in regard to whatever funds I leave.

 

- Further aside: the family house and land is all in the name of my Thai son, all funds / bank books are joint savings accounts son and me, either party can sign.

 

All family vehicles in name of son and/or his wife. Son,

 

My only unsettled liability will be the current balance on my one and only credit card (issued by a Thai bank) and I deliberately keep the outstanding balance very low. 

 

Good luck with this.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by scorecard

[tandor]

12 hours ago, steven100 said:

This topic is too sad for me …. 

..it sure is..we're just trying to help a 'friend' who is reaching out..at least you only have to address the issue once then you can rest a little bit easier in a foreign country knowing she is being taken care of well.

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, tandor said:

..it sure is..we're just trying to help a 'friend' who is reaching out..at least you only have to address the issue once then you can rest a little bit easier in a foreign country knowing she is being taken care of well.

Nothing wrong with alerting others to items that may well need organizing in advance.

 

 

[giddyup]

16 hours ago, potless said:

You need to make a will and get copies. One will should sit with a solicitor and at least one copy for yourselves. It should be written in Thai as that is the only thing that a court would recognise should a problem arise. It shouldnt cost much and you can sleep a bit more easily. You also get to keep control of your finances.  P.S. The wills should be sealed after you have checked them and not opened until the need arises.

Q. What does a lawyer take to administer probate? A. An arm and a leg. The fees Thai lawyers charge to both draw up a will (10,000) and then handle probate (I was quoted 30,000 baht) is nothing short of highway robbery. I trust my partner 100% so the money is in a joint account that she can draw on after I'm gone. I might add in the 10 years we've been together she's never touched it.

Edited December 20, 2019 by giddyup

[dlclark97]

Just been through some of this myself.  Do you have assets in your home country?  If yes, you need two wills, one for assets in Thailand and the second for the assets in your home country.  Yes, they should be translated and possibly notarized and possibly certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  I also did a Directive to Physicians, Medical Personnel and Family in the event that through illness, accident or the end result of a medical procedure I would have to remain for an untold number of years in a vegetative state being fed, washed and cared for on a 100% basis by others.  I did have this notarized but not translated.  At the medical facility I use for major issues it was scanned into my medical records.  I received high praise both at my Embassy where it was notarized and from my doctor for doing this.  I also prepared a Power of Attorney that gives my Thai wife access to my accounts at Bangkok Bank in the event I become incapacitated in some way and am unable to meet my financial obligations.  Again received high praise for doing this.  Your ATM and password will do little to assist your wife as when the bank is notified of your death the accounts will be frozen.  Also, the Power of Attorney has no effect after you have passed as it is voided at that time.  For her immediate needs and probably for 3-4 months after your passing she should have fixed accounts in her name only that she could live on while other inheritance are processed.  This can take a few months in Thailand and possibly many months in your home country.  I am an American veteran and fortunate that the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) is well versed on assisting  widows when their veteran husband passes on.  The biggest issue they try to impress on us is to make sure we have wills.  All your accounts local or in your home country should have beneficiaries designated.  When the time comes tis can greatly speed up the process of your heirs receiving what is due to them.  Good luck!