Bad day at CM Imm: Retirement extension

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

if your transfers do not show FTT then they will not be accepted - even if only one was BAHTNET (Internal)

 

Perhaps your transfers were all FTT in which case ignore my comment

It depends on which immigration office you belong to. Some rejects the BAHTNET transfer, some are ok with the bank statement and others wants the credit advice. There were positive posts here at TV about that late last year. 

[ThailandRyan]

12 hours ago, smedly said:

your chase bank uses an intermediary bank in Thailand for your transfers so they show up as local deposits, one of the common handlers in Thailand is HSBC - they give a <deleted> FX rate and usually add a charge that can appear on your home account months later

With my Chase account I pay only $5 for an international wire transfer, Kasikorn hits me for 300 Baht, so approximately $14 dollars, no extra fees.  If I transfer in $5,000 USD, no fee at all, and it shows in my account within 24 hours either way.  Looks like USD transfer is the way to go as it shows as a TFN, International Transfer and not BAHTNET. Will build my account up to the 800,000 THB within 6 months.  Then I will move it to a FDA account and leave it there.  

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, smedly said:

even for that amount TW will be cheaper - you will gain about 1.5% saving in FX rate on 10k that is 150GBP saving

But they take a whopping 59GBP to do the transfer, where my bank does it for free. 150 GBP savings is bunkum.  The 1.5% figure you mentioned does not appear to be there. I just calculated 0.8%, half of what you claim. 

 

 

[saengd]

13 hours ago, smedly said:

your chase bank uses an intermediary bank in Thailand for your transfers so they show up as local deposits, one of the common handlers in Thailand is HSBC - they give a <deleted> FX rate and usually add a charge that can appear on your home account months later

It depends on which bank in Thailand is receiving those funds from HSBC UK. Bangkok Bank and HSBC for example no longer have a SWIFT relationship so they must use Natwest as the correspondent bank which of course adds extra charges. You'd need to look at Chase or any other receiving bank to see if correspondent banks are used.

 

 

[BritManToo]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:02 PM, LawrenceN said:

Are there any other good options?

Fly to HCMC direct from CNX, get yourself a multi entry Non-O VISA for $200 from the Thai consulate.

No queues, silly questions or financial requirements at all.

Edited January 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[smedly]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

But they take a whopping 59GBP to do the transfer, where my bank does it for free. 150 GBP savings is bunkum.  The 1.5% figure you mentioned does not appear to be there. I just calculated 0.8%, half of what you claim. 

 

 

it all depends on what the TT FX is with the Thai bank at the time of transfer - the difference is usually about 1.5%  or a 3-4% swing between buy and sell, or of course you could get your home bank to do the FX which in my case would be about 3% because UK banks give a really bad FX rate, when I used to do transfers using swift I always instructed them to transfer sterling and the Thai bank did the FX

[OneeyedJohn]

Before using TW, which is probably 2 + years now, my HSBC bank used to pop up a mesage telling me how much baht would be transferred, even though I had specified GBP to transfer, it was offputting and confusing making one think that's OK, which of course it wasn't when u checked how much baht u would get with TW.

U had to be sure u got the transfer details correct, as once I did it to my Bangkok Bank and discovered as mentioned above an outrageous ancilliary fee from a co-operating bank in Thailand before getting to my account.

A one month argument with BKK and I got those charges refunded.

However, back to Swift from ur UK a./c, this now costs £4 plus u have to pay the receiving fee here in Thailand, 300 baht for Siam Commercial.

So, for me, TW everytime.

[Number 6]

How complicated. As I have stated repeatedly this will continue to occur. Everyone needs to either sooner or later(sooner!) put the cash in the bank or leave. Those are the options.

[Neeranam]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:44 PM, saengd said:

You have enough funds on deposit and incoming every month to qualify for a marriage visa, I recently converted my O-A visa reason for stay in Chiang Mai from retirement to marriage, I suggest you do the same. The agent who did this for me was Assist Thaivisa, the cost was 8,900 Baht.

No need for an agent.

[Neeranam]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Fly to HCMC direct from CNX, get yourself a multi entry Non-O VISA for $200 from the Thai consulate.

No queues, silly questions or financial requirements at all.

Isn't this only good for 90 days?

 

Most retirees I know pay an agent something like $500 a year, simple. Can't see what all the fuss is about.

 

 

[Pib]

12 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

With my Chase account I pay only $5 for an international wire transfer, Kasikorn hits me for 300 Baht, so approximately $14 dollars, no extra fees.  If I transfer in $5,000 USD, no fee at all, and it shows in my account within 24 hours either way.  Looks like USD transfer is the way to go as it shows as a TFN, International Transfer and not BAHTNET. Will build my account up to the 800,000 THB within 6 months.  Then I will move it to a FDA account and leave it there.  

 

You are paying a $5 fee but sending baht using the Chase FX rate which is surely several percent below the Thai bank rate.   Basically, Chase is hitting you with a healthy "indirect" fee through their lower exchange rate.

 

https://www.chase.com/digital/wire-transfer

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Pib

[saengd]

19 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

No need for an agent.

Perhaps. Except changing from retirement to marriage, mid extension, requires special permission and they do not have to agree, it requires approval from higher up apparently. Personally, I wouldn't know how to go about trying to get that permission since I have no contacts at Immi., the agent does. Regardless of that small point: I'm 70 years old, I don't feel inclined to queue up, wait, fill out forms, redo this redo that etc etc, the agent pays for itself as far as I'm concerned, it's called hassle avoidance.

[DrJack54]

2 hours ago, Number 6 said:

How complicated. As I have stated repeatedly this will continue to occur. Everyone needs to either sooner or later(sooner!) put the cash in the bank or leave. Those are the options.

I like your thinking. The monthly transfers will imo become more and more an issue. The imm officers would 100% prefer money in bank method. Just as they prefer extension based on retirement over marriage. I'm starting to enjoy weekly threads about problems with income method. BTW transferring money on monthly basis is worst possible way to have you dosh from home country to Thailand. Spare me transferwise or OFX. Yes second best option but so stupid.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

Isn't this only good for 90 days?

Most retirees I know pay an agent something like $500 a year, simple. Can't see what all the fuss is about.

I consider myself fairly honest, so prefer not to participate in bribes, corruption and criminal activity in general whenever possible. I can live with the trips out of country every 90 days, I quite enjoy visiting Vietnam and Cambodia.

Edited January 12, 2020 by BritManToo

[Max69xl]

13 hours ago, jacko45k said:

But they take a whopping 59GBP to do the transfer, where my bank does it for free. 150 GBP savings is bunkum.  The 1.5% figure you mentioned does not appear to be there. I just calculated 0.8%, half of what you claim. 

 

 

Even with a 59GBP total fee for a 10k transfer using TW you get more in your account than with a normal swift (even) with no fees because of the difference between the mid-market rate (TW) and the TT buy rate you get. May I ask how come your transfer is free? It's not very normal when talking about transfers from the UK.

[EricTh]

LawrenceN

 

Immigration is smarter and more reasonable than you think they are.

 

There are some people who DO recycle their money in Thailand to topup for the differences in their pension amount which is less than 65k baht. 

 

Some people can just recycle last months' unused money back abroad and then send in back to Thailand again to make up for the difference of 65K baht thus, gaming the system.

 

Immigration has no way to know whether this BAHTNET is actually recycled money from the applicant.

 

If everybody can just use this method, you only have to maintain a minimum of 65 k baht at anytime in Thailand which isn't fair to those who have sufficient funds.

 

However, what baffles me is why CM immigration refused to accept the combo method because that was a legal option when I went to extend last Nov.

 

Perhaps, it is a miscommunication and you need to talk again with someone who understands better English there. Speak very slowly because their English is very elementary.

 

Not sure about Bahtnet, but this links shows it can also be an internal transfer within Thailand.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers

Edited January 12, 2020 by EricTh

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

With my Chase account I pay only $5 for an international wire transfer, Kasikorn hits me for 300 Baht, so approximately $14 dollars, no extra fees.  If I transfer in $5,000 USD, no fee at all, and it shows in my account within 24 hours either way.  Looks like USD transfer is the way to go as it shows as a TFN, International Transfer and not BAHTNET. Will build my account up to the 800,000 THB within 6 months.  Then I will move it to a FDA account and leave it there.  

Chase won't transfer USD, they transfer baht using their own exchange rate, which is lower than the TT buy rate you would get if they actually transferred USD. I promise you that a $5,000 US transfer using TransferWise will give you more in your account even with TW's fee (no K-Bank fee). K-Bank is one of TW's partner banks in Thailand and when using the correct reason for the transfer "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" the transfer will show up as foreign. You'll also receive the money within 24 hours and the rate is guaranteed. 

[tgw]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Chase won't transfer USD, they transfer baht using their own exchange rate,

this is a major breach of trust in my opinion.

[UKresonant]

9 hours ago, EricTh said:

LawrenceN

 

Immigration is smarter and more reasonable than you think they are.

 

There are some people who DO recycle their money in Thailand to topup for the differences in their pension amount which is less than 65k baht. 

 

Some people can just recycle last months' unused money back abroad and then send in back to Thailand again to make up for the difference of 65K baht thus, gaming the system.

 

Immigration has no way to know whether this BAHTNET is actually recycled money from the applicant.

 

If everybody can just use this method, you only have to maintain a minimum of 65 k baht at anytime in Thailand which isn't fair to those who have sufficient funds.

 

However, what baffles me is why CM immigration refused to accept the combo method because that was a legal option when I went to extend last Nov.....

They maybe only have 64k pension, which is niether fair or unfair to anyone else within the three (maybe four) nationality groups that are affected. They may well keep more on deposit if the combo method was being allowed, again focusing on three nationalities.

Keeping 800kTHB in a Thai bank, may have only been a sensible situation preDec 2018. 

Perhaps it is people suggesting that it is now ok to lock money in a Thai bank account, that are being equally unfair to others...whilst in may be perfectly suitable for their particular view point. If different units do not even wish even to follow certain aspects, then there is little hope for confidence in what has been rapidly changing detail over the last year....

 

Perhaps an FCD account that will repatriate your funds to your home country within 7days, if your extension is refused would be a product of interest...

[jacko45k]

20 hours ago, smedly said:

of course you could get your home bank to do the FX

I have a little more experience than that. 

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

No need for an agent.

There is in CM, as no agent often means no appointment, followed by 'difficulties' when you finally manage to get to an immigration officer.

Edited January 13, 2020 by BritManToo

[flurry]

On 1/11/2020 at 10:55 AM, flurry said:

 

Chiang Mai rejected my retirement extension this week, using the combination method. I have used the combination method for about 5 years with no problem. This year they said 800,000 in bank OR 65,000 month income. Have other people been able to use the combination method recently at Chiang Mai Immigration?

 

I have a lease on a house, bought a motorbike, TV, fridge, washing machine, ect. I will lose all of these. I also have a dog I would never leave behind. Don't they care at all what devastation they cause in peoples lives?

So I am going to head over to Mexico when my visa expires. I grew up in NE Los Angeles. Where I lived around half the population were Mexican families. They are sincere, down to earth people. (when they smile at you, it is not hiding something they are thinking). The extreme stress I have felt ever since I learned I have to leave Thailand is starting to subside, and I am actually kind of excited about the thought living in Mexico. 

 

Best of luck to everyone that is going through similar upheavals in their life. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, flurry said:

So I am going to head over to Mexico when my visa expires. I grew up in NE Los Angeles. Where I lived around half the population were Mexican families. They are sincere, down to earth people. (when they smile at you, it is not hiding something they are thinking). The extreme stress I have felt ever since I learned I have to leave Thailand is starting to subside, and I am actually kind of excited about the thought living in Mexico. 

 

Best of luck to everyone that is going through similar upheavals in their life. 

Great. Have you decided where specifically you plan to go to in Mexico? Please post in the expats in Latin America thread as you have your Mexican adventures.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1087554-expats-in-thailand-considering-moving-to-latin-america-prompted-by-thai-visa-changes/

Edited January 13, 2020 by Jingthing

[moontang]

I like Hermosillo, and it is slightly more than 50 km from the coast, so I could buy property in my name.  I heard it is the only city, where all Municipal repeated is treated..home Depot and Walmart.. University of Sonora, with tons of hot, hot northern Mexico debutantes..great beef, the baseball team is the orange farmers.  Cops are scary, murder rate is way high...oh, good Cuban cigars at 1/3 the price of here.https://www.loseconomicos.com/Hermosillo/

Edited January 13, 2020 by moontang

[flurry]

55 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Great. Have you decided where specifically you plan to go to in Mexico? Please post in the expats in Latin America thread as you have your Mexican adventures.

 

45 minutes ago, moontang said:

I like Hermosillo, and it is slightly more than 50 km from the coast, so I could buy property in my name.  I heard it is the only city, where all Municipal repeated is treated..home Depot and Walmart.. University of Sonora, with tons of hot, hot northern Mexico debutantes..great beef, the baseball team is the orange farmers.  Cops are scary, murder rate is way high.

ummm... gracias ????
No idea where in Mexico yet. I know some parts are dangerous. Time to start researching and planning. I will do future updates on  expats in Latin America thread.

[moontang]

the beach resorts are a lot like the beach resorts here..magnets for conartists, crooked cops, and ripoffs.  Electric is cheap if you use a little..if you get a big house, it could be 1500 usd per month.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, flurry said:

 

ummm... gracias ????
No idea where in Mexico yet. I know some parts are dangerous. Time to start researching and planning. I will do future updates on  expats in Latin America thread.

Yes, please do that. I may even be able to give you some specific ideas based on your needs and preferences such as:

Need a beach or not

Rural, small town, medium town, or city

Cost level, high to low

Need lots of gringos or not

Weather, hot, mild, or cooler

Crime level tolerance

[ThailandRyan]

21 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Chase won't transfer USD, they transfer baht using their own exchange rate, which is lower than the TT buy rate you would get if they actually transferred USD. I promise you that a $5,000 US transfer using TransferWise will give you more in your account even with TW's fee (no K-Bank fee). K-Bank is one of TW's partner banks in Thailand and when using the correct reason for the transfer "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" the transfer will show up as foreign. You'll also receive the money within 24 hours and the rate is guaranteed. 

MAX,

Chase will transfer USD, you have to choose the option.  The wire fee is $40.00 to do it in USD, and the rate I received was 29.80 Baht per USD, the FX currency exchange rate was at 30.05, so I lost about 1,250 baht or another $41.35, but no bank fee on my end here from Kasikorn, but again that was January 1st when the USD mysteriously dropped.  Total fee of $81.35 USD, so yes looking at what the TransferWise fee is I would save a few bucks.

[Number 6]

23 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

I like your thinking. The monthly transfers will imo become more and more an issue. The imm officers would 100% prefer money in bank method. Just as they prefer extension based on retirement over marriage. I'm starting to enjoy weekly threads about problems with income method. BTW transferring money on monthly basis is worst possible way to have you dosh from home country to Thailand. Spare me transferwise or OFX. Yes second best option but so stupid.

So true. What an absolute headache. After 12 transfers one is bound to miss and if not this year then next or next. So best pack the bags or deposit the money. It's really only a matter of time before immigration just gets tired of it all and makes deposits the only method.

 

TV really needs to ban these threads but at least I have a modicum of sympathy for the retirees over the thrice weekly "I almost didn't get let in" or "I'm in jail at the airport what are my options" threads. These really, really need to be banned. Same drama and same options. If the chancers were smart they'd have read up and know their options. But they're chancers 55555

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

MAX,

Chase will transfer USD, you have to choose the option.  The wire fee is $40.00 to do it in USD, and the rate I received was 29.80 Baht per USD, the FX currency exchange rate was at 30.05, so I lost about 1,250 baht or another $41.35, but no bank fee on my end here from Kasikorn, but again that was January 1st when the USD mysteriously dropped.  Total fee of $81.35 USD, so yes looking at what the TransferWise fee is I would save a few bucks.

K-bank did charge your a receiving fee and it's below.  However, they charge the fee "before" posting to your acct and since it was charged before posting to your acct it does not appear on your ibanking/passbook/statement....gives the impression no fee was charged but indeed it was.  However if you go ask for a Credit Advice it will show the fee.