4 minutes ago, candide said:

Yet no one contradicted the accumulated evidence under oath, nor did any document. 

I think it is the opinion of many people (not on the left) that even if what the whistleblower claimed was all true, it is not a crime. 
 

 

 

4 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Yeah  actually before world went crazy the DOJ keeps investigations secret. Durham, if he has himself looked at Ukraine, may have or be looking at Bidens, and not only in relation to Ukraine...you see if your son shows up on boards in more then one location, and family too, well....its interesting. Especially China.

 

The Democrats are done. Stick a fork in em, cooked, burnt! Honestly, the last investigation about FISA, was horrendous, and the Dossier was shown to be nothing but nonsense...grounded in zero reality at all. This will get real somber, and the party will go to war with itself when the first indictments come... and their coming....just my opinion...but time will tell.

 

The words "has been indicted" attached to former Obama officials...The End! Why is anyone supporting them at all, I mean I guess I can understand if its your only paycheck.

I hope you’re right, but I think you might be underestimating the power of the left. 
 

Of all the things Trump has done or tried to do, exposing so much press for what they are has to be my favorite. 
 

Did you hear McSally? 
 

Maybe it’s catching on....

13 minutes ago, candide said:

Yet no one contradicted the accumulated evidence under oath, nor did any document. 

The Trump defense team demolished the very idea that this ridiculous mess should have been even presented to the Senate.

 

Demolished the idea that Trump could not have had any legitimate Presidential interest in the Bidens or the last election....after all he fricking said so on the call.

 

The idea that the Ukrainians are cowardly lying invalids was likewise demolished by the Defense, as was the idea that anything is impeachable about a short term hold on aid while the President basically took some time to figure things out Right or Wrong!

 

The Democrat party has gone mad!

57 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

The Trump defense team demolished the very idea that this ridiculous mess should have been even presented to the Senate.

 

Demolished the idea that Trump could not have had any legitimate Presidential interest in the Bidens or the last election....after all he fricking said so on the call.

 

The idea that the Ukrainians are cowardly lying invalids was likewise demolished by the Defense, as was the idea that anything is impeachable about a short term hold on aid while the President basically took some time to figure things out Right or Wrong!

 

The Democrat party has gone mad!

Demolished, lol!

How's this for Dem double standards on impeachment?

When asked whether the Clinton campaign's use of the Steele Dossier in 2016 would be considered impeachable under the Dems’ standard,  Hakim Jeffries the charlatan says... no, because the Steele dossier "was purchased."

 

They just have no shame or moral compass. ????

 

 

8 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

A vague claim that has been made by the opposition party about every President since the beginning of The USA. 

My "vague claim" was preceded by a very specific example, which you edited out.

8 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I am more informed then you will ever be, and I have forgotten more then you will ever know. And yeah , I see no imaginary gun, and I do not read minds. 

Ukraine is at war with its much more powerful neighbor.  Tens of thousands have died.  Part of the country has been annexed, another part is occupied by rebels supported by Russia.  And guess what?  This war is being fought with guns!

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

The whistle blower has no legal right to anonymity.  Period.

 

Some folks here refuse to accept the fact that the Bidens are relevant. As one of Trump's lawyers pointed out, rightfully so, that if Biden withheld the billion dollars in a quid pro quo to protect his son then the Democrat's narrative would instantly dissolve.  Some folks here refuse to consider any other possible explanation.  Some folks here do not seek truth but have only a singular desire to have Trump removed from office.  And they care not one whit of the damage they are willing to inflict along the way.  The means justify the ends for these folks.

 

There are many, many, many people who do not share the same perspective as the libs/Dems.  Thankfully.

Biden withheld aid because it was US policy.  Coincidentally, it also supported EU policy.  That is why he bragged about it on camera.  Had he been doing anything illegal he would not have described it on camera.

 

There is no evidence Joe Biden did anything illegal or contrary to US interests.  There is plenty of evidence Trump committed an impeachable offense.  Which is why there should be witnesses called.

5 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

I think the Ukrainians are damn lucky that Donald Trump was elected. And are happily looking forward to 4 more years of a straight talking whitehouse.

Really?  Do you talk to many Ukrainians, or are you reading minds now?

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

He may not explicitly have that right but protecting him is in accordance with the intent of the law.

 

As there is no legal basis for claiming continued anonymity then a seemingly plausible reason must be given to protect his identity.  The accuser must face the accused.  That is law.  You are arguing in favour of allowing people to accuse other people and then being able to remain anonymous.  Think about the consequences of that.  If it were allowed in this case then the same argument could made in every other case.  Are you willing to be accused by someone who does not have to identify himself due to the reasoning that you may retaliate against him?

 

About Biden, this theory has been debunked already.

 

Absolutely false.  And what evidence Bondi provides isn't at all inclusive of all the evidence thus far assembled.  It will come to light.

 

 

And anyway this is not relevant for the case.

 

As one of Trump's lawyers pointed out, rightfully so, that if Biden withheld the billion dollars in a quid pro quo to protect his son then the Democrat's narrative would instantly dissolve.  That, my friend, is the relevancy.

"The accuser must face the accused."

 

As has been explained many times, that is only true in a court of law.  I'd be more than happy to see Trump facing his accuser in court.

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll again remind you of what you are arguing for . . . the right of an accuser to retain anonymity.  In the United States of America an accuser must face the accused.  You are arguing against a longstanding, cherished, and foundational pillar of American justice.  Be very careful of what you ask for.

 

I had asked you to refute the facts Bondi presented.  If you are unable then that's fine with me.

Bondi, lol.

9 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I can't believe the Dems hypocritcal cries of "unfair" after their procedural travesty in the House.  What comes around goes around.  That's not to say the Senate procedures were unfair.  It regards only the Dems experience of winning to ultimately losing.  There's an old J. Geils song, "Serves You Right To Suffer."

 

Except the senators swore an oath before the trial. Its ok with you that they perjure themselves.

6 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

So can Hunter Biden man up now and give Ukraine back the money he took from the Ukrainian people?

He took it from a private company. Up to them who they employ. Ukraine govt said that directly. He broke no laws.

 

Speaking of doing nothing. Hows ivanka and jared doing.

5 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

He may not explicitly have that right but protecting him is in accordance with the intent of the law.

 

As there is no legal basis for claiming continued anonymity then a seemingly plausible reason must be given to protect his identity.  The accuser must face the accused.  That is law.  You are arguing in favour of allowing people to accuse other people and then being able to remain anonymous.  Think about the consequences of that.  If it were allowed in this case then the same argument could made in every other case.  Are you willing to be accused by someone who does not have to identify himself due to the reasoning that you may retaliate against him?

 

About Biden, this theory has been debunked already.

 

Absolutely false.  And what evidence Bondi provides isn't at all inclusive of all the evidence thus far assembled.  It will come to light.

 

 

And anyway this is not relevant for the case.

 

As one of Trump's lawyers pointed out, rightfully so, that if Biden withheld the billion dollars in a quid pro quo to protect his son then the Democrat's narrative would instantly dissolve.  That, my friend, is the relevancy.

What a load of rubbish.

 

Both dems and repubs agree a wb should remain anonymous. Both sides agree a plausible reason is that a wb does not face detrimental action against him for doing his duty. He has had death threats even tho no one has officially named him.

 

So tell me. What should a person do if he thinks there is wrongdoing. They do exactly what the wb did. He did everything by the book.

 

Also this is not a criminal trial. There is no right for an accused to face an accuser. Now if it was only the wb and trump u could argue it. But everything the wb stated is verified by others.

 

Or just call bolton. He is accusing trump. So call him.

 

I think you are confusing the biden theory with the moscow mitch theory.

4 hours ago, Ricohoc said:

Second- and third-hand feelings and beliefs shared by the gossipblower was confirmed by bureaucrats with similar second- and third-hand feelings and beliefs. 

 

Only one guy talked to Trump.  Only one guy got an answer from Trump.  Ambassador Sondland.  He's the only one with first-hand information, and it was not only in Trump's favor; but Sondland admitted that any ideas that he had about Trump and quid pro quo were Sondland's own presumption.  Under oath.

 

That boat sailed a long time ago.

Then call the guys with first hand knowledge. It was a perfect call, what are you afraid of.

4 hours ago, mogandave said:

I think it is the opinion of many people (not on the left) that even if what the whistleblower claimed was all true, it is not a crime. 
 

 

 

It doesnt need to be a crime. 

4 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

The Trump defense team demolished the very idea that this ridiculous mess should have been even presented to the Senate.

 

Demolished the idea that Trump could not have had any legitimate Presidential interest in the Bidens or the last election....after all he fricking said so on the call.

 

The idea that the Ukrainians are cowardly lying invalids was likewise demolished by the Defense, as was the idea that anything is impeachable about a short term hold on aid while the President basically took some time to figure things out Right or Wrong!

 

The Democrat party has gone mad!

And there i was thinking trump had concerns ukraine was corrupt. Yet wanted a corrupt govt to investigate corruption.

 

The pentagon had already investigated and cleared the funds.

 

Even repubs were asking why the aid wasnt given. 

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

How's this for Dem double standards on impeachment?

When asked whether the Clinton campaign's use of the Steele Dossier in 2016 would be considered impeachable under the Dems’ standard,  Hakim Jeffries the charlatan says... no, because the Steele dossier "was purchased."

 

They just have no shame or moral compass. ????

 

 

The same dossier that was initialy started by ted cruz the repub?

 

Tell me what foreign govt did that steele dosier?

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

The same dossier that was initialy started by ted cruz the repub?

 

Tell me what foreign govt did that steele dosier?

Right. Trumpers' arguments sre incoherent.

No Witnesses!!! Well that's done! One more vote to go! Democrats Senators running for President can put their restaurant tour back into high gear!

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Another successful cover-up.  Ignorance prevails.

What has been covered up? 
 

O thought the House exposed everything? 

2 hours ago, candide said:

Right. Trumpers' arguments sre incoherent.

The Dossier was not started by Republicans. That is simply false.

4 hours ago, Sujo said:

The same dossier that was initialy started by ted cruz the repub?

 

Tell me what foreign govt did that steele dosier?

The Steele Dossier was NOT started by Republicans. That is a lie.

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ukraine is at war with its much more powerful neighbor.  Tens of thousands have died.  Part of the country has been annexed, another part is occupied by rebels supported by Russia.  And guess what?  This war is being fought with guns!

LOL.  Spare me the crocodile tears.  Trump approved and provided lethal weapons.  Obama denied lethal weapons and provided mere blankets.  What does that tell you?  The Dems propensity to twist reality to suit their fabricated narrative is legendary.

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Spare me the crocodile tears.  Trump approved and provided lethal weapons.  Obama denied lethal weapons and provided mere blankets.  What does that tell you?  The Dems propensity to twist reality to suit their fabricated narrative is legendary.

That’s a lie!
 

Obama sent blankets AND pillows!

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Spare me the crocodile tears.  Trump approved and provided lethal weapons.  Obama denied lethal weapons and provided mere blankets.  What does that tell you?  The Dems propensity to twist reality to suit their fabricated narrative is legendary.

Yeah, all the sudden the left is concerned about Ukraine.

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

The same dossier that was initialy started by ted cruz the repub?

 

Tell me what foreign govt did that steele dosier?

There is a tremendous amount of false left wing propaganda on this which Google is no doubt pushing to the top to hide the truth. More examples of a totalitarian attempt at control. 

 

The source of Dossier is from Christopher Steele who pushed to Fusion GPS under payment from law firm hired by Democrat National Committee. Steele is a foreign British National, who got his information from the Russians, the funding, again, comes from Democrat party. See IG report.

 

Also, here is a link direct from Washington Free Beacon who admits that they used Fusion GPS for opposition research, but NEVER had anything do to with, or received any information that was within what later would become the Steele Dossier. The lie spun is that because the Washington Free Beacon at one time used Fusions services, it follows they began the Dossier. As they themselves say  this is a lie:

https://freebeacon.com/uncategorized/fusion-gps-washington-free-beacon/

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

It doesnt need to be a crime. 

You keep saying that, but yet here we are. 
 

Other Presidents that were impeached has all committed felonies. 
 

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Ukraine is at war with its much more powerful neighbor.  Tens of thousands have died.  Part of the country has been annexed, another part is occupied by rebels supported by Russia.  And guess what?  This war is being fought with guns!

All lethal aid has been provided by this administration. The aid in question had zero effect on current operations. A fact. I fail to understand the purpose of your post.

5 hours ago, Sujo said:

Then call the guys with first hand knowledge. It was a perfect call, what are you afraid of.

Everyone has already read the transcript of the call. I didn't read any of the Mafia language schiff used to describe the call. But I did pick up hints of Schiff's language in the Whistleblowers complaint. Which leads me to question if this is a complete setup. I want this investigated further.