Vietnam puts the kibosh on foreigners

[Mike Teavee]

11 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Fairly accurate summary. But more negatives to PI than you outlined. Infrastructure for one. Natural calamities also a big negative. 
 

What about Laos, Singapore, Indonesia and Brunei?

1) How on earth could you list Singapore in with Laos & indonesia (I'll 1/2 give you Brunei but only because SG has such close ties with the country that each others currency is valid in either, though I've only seen 3 Brunei notes in 12 years of living there).

2) Please lay out your plans for retiring to Singapore that doesn't require s$2.5Million (Approx 55,000,000 THB) & several years of accounts of a director of a reasonably large company, not to mention the ongoing income requirements oh & PR only lasts for 5 years so you better be paying some income taxes there if you plan on staying any longer. 

 

There are also a lot more positives to the PI than outlined... You can live way away from the natural disasters, Taguig is like a mini-Singapore in the middle of Manila, has some of the world's most stunning beaches & is one of the friendliest places I've ever visited (Then again, I didn't limit my visits to Angeles/Manila but got out & visited some of the islands...) - Visit Coron (Palawan), one of my favourite places on the planet. 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Mike Teavee
typo

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, impulse said:

Who spends more, Brits on holiday in SEA, or SEA tourists in the UK?

Almost certainly SEA tourists in the UK, as you need at least 50 quid a night, just for a room.

I rarely spend more than 25 pounds for my entire day anywhere in Asia.

Edited February 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[impulse]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Almost certainly SEA tourists in the UK, as you need at least 50 quid a night, just for a room.

I rarely spend more than 25 pounds for my entire day anywhere in Asia.

 

But that completely neglects the number of tourists, and also the effect on GDP since the UK's GDP is so much higher than, for example, Thailand's.  A billion pounds less spent by Thai tourists in the the UK has less of an effect than a billion pounds less spent by Brits in Thailand.

 

So I still contend that SEA has a lot more to lose if they <deleted> off British tourists than the UK has to lose if they were to drive off SEA tourists.  Same for all the western Euro states and the former commonwealth nations.

 

[BritManToo]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

But that completely neglects the number of tourists, and also the effect on GDP since the UK's GDP is so much higher than, for example, Thailand's.  A billion pounds less spent by Thai tourists in the the UK has less of an effect than a billion pounds less spent by Brits in Thailand.

 

So I still contend that SEA has a lot more to lose if they <deleted> off British tourists than the UK has to lose if they were to drive off SEA tourists.  Same for all the western Euro states and the former commonwealth nations.

 

There's only three Thai tourists in the EU that count. Thaksin, Yingluck, and the guy that lives in Germany.

It's a funny old world where all the plebs in the EU want to live in Thailand, and all the knobs in Thailand want to live in the EU.

 

I imagine Prayut will join them once his turn sitting in the big chair is over.

Edited February 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

If people get bored in Cambodia they'll be bored in Laos. Nightlife virtually non existent.

 

The pace is just too slow and I would die of boredom, Isaarn is difficult enough but I have big house and all the creature comforts.

 

I believe reports on Vietnam are a bit knee jerk, I am sure there are workarounds.

The new VN  rules don't come into effect until July. There is nothing in these rules for in country 30 day visa runs. So yes it will be worth watching to see what might develop after July. I already mentioned an almost definitely corrupt possibility. My question would be are people doing that for the current 90 day visa runs. I haven't heard that they are. There are people doing one year business visas without being in business. There are reports of understandable crackdowns on people doing that. I prefer to stay in foreign countries following their laws rather than taking risks participating in corruption. 

[johnmell]

Mars is looking good.No visa required,but the air not too great.

[RocketDog]

12 hours ago, SteveK said:

Trump came down hard on the Chinese with his tariffs. Everyone kowtows to China around here, and they are <deleted> off with the west big time. Foreigners should be running for the hills.

OK. Sounds good. Please post a map of the route to the hills. I'm packing my bags now. 

 

BTW, are the hills cheap, safe, and comfortable? 

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, RocketDog said:

BTW, are the hills cheap, safe, and comfortable? 

And alive with the sound of music

[El Matador]

I seriously doubt those changes will happen this year.

I've been watching the visa evolution in Vietnam in the recent years and the situation has been improving for many countries in general. They've been offering 15 days exemption visas for more and more European countries.

They started to offer 1 year tourist visas for American people. Something which was absolutly beyond imagination 10 years ago considering the Vietnamese war. They stopped offering 3 months visas to them when they introduce the new visa but quickly withdrew it. They tried to raise the price of tourist visas but quickly withdrew that too.

I got the same visa as if I was married to a Vietnamese lady and they started to offer 6 months instead of 3 months without going outside the country.

And they started to allow 30% of foreign ownership in some new condos recently. And allowed 100% ownership of your entreprise too.

So I am skeptical they will take a big step backwards.

The thing is you wil know what's gonna happen around June. They usually change rule or keep rules with very short notification from my experience and I remember people talking about visa rules staying the same or not on the 1st of July till June. It as bureaucratic and corrupted as Thailand but at least they are pragmatic and they don't insist when something doesn't work or is pure non sense like you sometimes see with the military government in Thailand.

 

I also talked with the girl from the agency in charge of my flat and she told me she received tons of cancellations from tourists. She was kind of desperate. And the Vietnamese governement just announced they wouldn't give any tourist visa to Chinese people so the tourism will definitly take a major hit this year. This is another reason for not making things worse. It's true though you have lots of English teachers on those 3 months tourist visas who would have to reconsider their situation if such a change happened. But as long as an embassy has not published the new rules it just pure speculation.

On the other hand, it totally makes sense to think the visa situation in South East Asia will be worse and worse in the future for long term western tourists as Asian economies are catching up. They have many young educated workers which is a good thing for their future and the western economic advance is reducing every year.

Edited February 1, 2020 by El Matador
spelling mistakes

[Jingthing]

34 minutes ago, El Matador said:

I seriously doubt those changes will happen this year.

I've been watching the visa evolution in Vietnam in the recent years and the situation has been improving for many countries in general. They've been offering 15 days exemption visas for more and more European countries.

They started to offer 1 year tourist visas for American people. Something which was absolutly beyond imagination 10 years ago considering the Vietnamese war. They stopped offering 3 months visas to them when they introduce the new visa but quickly withdrew it. They tried to raise the price of tourist visas but quickly withdrew that too.

I got the same visa as if I was married to a Vietnamese lady and they started to offer 6 months instead of 3 months without going outside the country.

And they started to allow 30% of foreign ownership in some new condos recently. And allowed 100% ownership of your entreprise too.

So I am skeptical they will take a big step backwards.

The thing is you wil know what's gonna happen around June. They usually change rule or keep rules with very short notification from my experience and I remember people talking about visa rules staying the same or not on the 1st of July till June. It as bureaucratic and corrupted as Thailand but at least they are pragmatic and they don't insist when something doesn't work or is pure non sense like you sometimes see with the military government in Thailand.

 

I also talked with the girl from the agency in charge of my flat and she told me she received tons of cancellations from tourists. She was kind of desperate. And the Vietnamese governement just announced they wouldn't give any tourist visa to Chinese people so the tourism will definitly take a major hit this year. This is another reason for not making things worse. It's true though you have lots of English teachers on those 3 months tourist visas who would have to reconsider their situation if such a change happened. But as long as an embassy has not published the new rules it just pure speculation.

On the other hand, it totally makes sense to think the visa situation in South East Asia will be worse and worse in the future for long term western tourists as Asian economies are catching up. They have many young educated workers which is a good thing for their future and the western economic advance is reducing every year.

The law on the changes effective July has already passed. That is way beyond speculation. I don't think it will be any problem for REAL tourists. So VN wants their tourist visas to be used by actual tourists. God forbid! 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Jingthing

[Damrongsak]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Almost certainly SEA tourists in the UK, as you need at least 50 quid a night, just for a room.

I rarely spend more than 25 pounds for my entire day anywhere in Asia.

Times change, prices change.  I got along just fine for a couple years in Thailand way back for maybe 100 - 150 Baht a day.  Little 4 room wooden house with a few real light bulbs, occasional trip to BKK to play with the girls at Patpong.  Life was good.

[El Matador]

And I am ready to bet that law won't be effective.

They have plenty of time to amend it. When they will see the number of tourists falling like crazy this month they will reconsider it.

[Mitkof Island]

Thailand does not look so bad after all does it. But something more to moan about.

[madmen]

Dozens of threads with ruthless Thai bashers that were fleeing to the promised land. 

All of a sudden its gone eerily quite....

[madmen]

40 minutes ago, El Matador said:

And I am ready to bet that law won't be effective.

They have plenty of time to amend it. When they will see the number of tourists falling like crazy this month they will reconsider it.

Dream on, they not going to back flip because of a few months of flat tourism 

[Scouse123]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The new VN  rules don't come into effect until July. There is nothing in these rules for in country 30 day visa runs. So yes it will be worth watching to see what might develop after July. I already mentioned an almost definitely corrupt possibility. My question would be are people doing that for the current 90 day visa runs. I haven't heard that they are. There are people doing one year business visas without being in business. There are reports of understandable crackdowns on people doing that. I prefer to stay in foreign countries following their laws rather than taking risks participating in corruption. 

 

Jingthing,

 

Me as well sir. I couldn't cope looking over my shoulder every time a police car passes or I see an Immigration officer.

 

I have sympathy for those in the position that has occurred to them, regards affordability, with Immigration changing rules and regulations but they do in every country and change with the times.

 

Back to VN, I have a number of friends there long term but they are all married to Vietnamese.

[Scouse123]

Guys,

 

Don't want to be a killjoy but it does appear that the majority of those suffering difficulties win SEA, have been over here hopping from one visa to another without having the correct one or being able to satisfy the requirements to have one in the first place.

 

Then when a rule gets changed, it's the syndrome of ' Everybody is Anti Westerner ' Surely, we have to take responsibility for ourselves financially and it is unreasonable to expect the status quo to remain visa wise just to please our personal financial circumstances.

 

I do not like the enforcement of TM30 nor will I like the silly health insurance rules if it ever comes into effect for Non O visa holders. I think there is way too much paranoia from the authorities but trying to live in Thailand on tourist visas and border hopping is a thing of the past.

 

One thing is for sure, Thailand's immigration rules are not going to get easier anytime soon.

[albertik]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2020 at 8:50 AM, elephant45 said:

I've got an idea! they can come visa free to my country get free housing, medical, food and anything else they need. Sounds reasonable.

Is your surname Warren by any chance?

[VocalNeal]

Well it will keep all the TVF whingers out?

 

On a more serious note. It will not be aimed at any particular group, except maybe Vietnam's long time enemy. 

I suppose their logic is : Have not ties, pay no taxes, then no thank you.

[metempsychotic]

On 1/31/2020 at 8:50 AM, elephant45 said:

I've got an idea! they can come visa free to my country get free housing, medical, food and anything else they need. Sounds reasonable.

Can they though? They certainly cant visit my home country without jumping through some hoops.

[yogavnture]

21 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

 

What kind of nonsense.... Thirty days is fine for a backpacker. 

 

It's certainly not backpackers who are being targeted. 

its not my nonsense it immigration.  no money no visa.  no money no honey..

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

https://www.themds.com/companies/chasing-the-tourist-in-europe-where-do-they-come-from-and-how-much-do-they-spend.html

 

 

86% of european tourists are domestic aka from the EU. 

 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Tourism_statistics_-_expenditure#German_tourists_accounted_for_26.25_of_EU_tourism_expenditure

 

 

 

So nearly 90% of tourism in the EU is domestic, and germans are 26% of all money spent.

 

Who would have thought? Seems we aren't so broke after all even tho some here might suggest that.

 

Other big spenders are France and the UK - makes sense.

 

 

 

The non domestic biggest part is from America, so thanks for that fellow fallangs.

 

 

The only country who will suffer a bit is the UK it seems.

 

 

Seems this whole EU one market thing kinda does work - who would have thought?

So EU+UK spends a total of Eur 28 billion in Asia in a year. No idea if that’s a lot or not and what it actually includes. 
 

What I do know is that most of the top tourist attractions in Europe are full of Asian tourists. When we are costing costs for Asian tourists, a full service tour (accommodation, 3 meals a day, essential tours and entrances, transfers) average about Eur 150 pppn, depending on hotels and restaurants. Incentives are much higher value of course as a lot of them stay in superior 4 star or 5 star hotels and includes Michelin starred meals. The average tour group from SEA spends about 8-10nights with PI groups sometimes topping off at 30 nights (usually pilgrimage groups). 
 

I don’t have figures or links but my gut feeling is that Asian tourists spend more on the whole. 

[Gweiloman]

5 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

1) How on earth could you list Singapore in with Laos & indonesia (I'll 1/2 give you Brunei but only because SG has such close ties with the country that each others currency is valid in either, though I've only seen 3 Brunei notes in 12 years of living there).

2) Please lay out your plans for retiring to Singapore that doesn't require s$2.5Million (Approx 55,000,000 THB) & several years of accounts of a director of a reasonably large company, not to mention the ongoing income requirements oh & PR only lasts for 5 years so you better be paying some income taxes there if you plan on staying any longer. 

 

There are also a lot more positives to the PI than outlined... You can live way away from the natural disasters, Taguig is like a mini-Singapore in the middle of Manila, has some of the world's most stunning beaches & is one of the friendliest places I've ever visited (Then again, I didn't limit my visits to Angeles/Manila but got out & visited some of the islands...) - Visit Coron (Palawan), one of my favourite places on the planet. 

 

 

 

I was merely listing SG for completeness as it is also part of SEA. That’s why I didn’t list Hkg or Korea or Taiwan or Japan. 
 

I lived and worked in SG for 4 years, from 1994-98. The first 6 months was great as I was getting acclimatised to the country, it’s rules and regulations. However, by 98, I was itching to leave as it just got too claustrophobic. 
 

[Gweiloman]

9 hours ago, daveAustin said:

They can keep it. I'd sooner stay home than spend time there. Nice beaches and all that; just find em hard going and aggressive. As for that hacking 'n spitting! ????

As for that hacking ‘n spitting. 
Yes, that’s how they show their disgust and disapproval.

[yogi100]

22 hours ago, Cutty Shark said:

If you are serious about trying Belize, I'd appreciate if you'd keep us posted.  I find the place interesting, from what little I know of it.

I think he was doing a bit of leg pulling. A pal of mine was stationed there with the army in the 1960s and he said it was an utter dump.

 

Cheap women though, he claimed it was half a crown (about 5 baht). It's probably it bit more than that now though.

[yogi100]

18 hours ago, Titan1962 said:

So the people that left Thailand because they couldn’t meet the requirements and headed to Vietnam and the Philippines are in the same boat. How long did you think the honeymoon would last,they knew that the influx of older expats Coming in had to be from Thailand. Looks like a lot of older Falang are going to have to leave Asia altogether.I personally just couldn’t imagine having to leave the  street food the cheaper cost of living,and the beautiful young Asian women. Look out old falang women in Europe the sexpats are heading home.

 

It shouldn't be a big deal and the old falang girls should not be too concerned. Most men will have all but lost their sex drive by their 60s and 70s. 

 

Most of them will not care two hoots about the availability or cost of 'street food'.

 

It'll be housing and the price of it that will be a problem. Those that have burned their bridges will have to make do with hostels, doss houses and even shop doorways and few folk will want an old age pensioner sofa surfing in their living room even if he's not yet suffering from incontinence.

 

That's what should be of concern because that's when things get serious. There is an acute housing shortage in the UK and quite likely the case in other Western countries as well.

[seasia]

On 1/31/2020 at 2:10 AM, Rookiescot said:

Ah well. If it all goes Pete Tong here I will try Belize next. 

I have been researching potential alternative for some time.

 

Belize overall seemed quite attractive, only slight downside I heard was healthcare not to quite a high standard as various other countries. That aspect will vary in importance for different people.

 

Extract from an interesting article re. Belize  then link to full article

 

 

"It sounds so perfect: a country with Caribbean islands where the principle mode of transportation is a golf cart, the people speak English and you are surrounded by crystal clear waters and gently swaying palm trees. But what is it really like to live in Belize?

On our Web site, Best Places in the World to Retire, more than 50 experts (most of them expats) provided more than 1,000 answers to the most often asked questions about living in Belize. ....."

 

https://www.thestreet.com/opinion/the-good-and-the-bad-about-moving-to-belize-13408892

 

As for Vietnam I like it as a tourist destination but have never given any serious thought to living there.

[yogi100]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I honestly don't know.  Who spends more, Brits on holiday in SEA, or SEA tourists in the UK?  Then, what percentage is that of GDP?  My suspicion is that the old world and former commonwealth countries would lose a tiny percentage of GDP if SEA tourists stayed away.  While the SEA countries would lose a significant percentage of their GDP if it went the other way.

 

Of course, I'm always open to being swayed by numbers.  More open when those numbers come from credible sources.  Which rules out TAT statistics...

 

To be clear, some segments would be devastated, as you mentioned.  But the overall economy?  I think SEA is a lot more vulnerable.

 

You've but to discuss the subject with a Thai person in any of the main resorts. He or she will soon tell you who the big spenders are.

 

And who the tight wads are.

[BritManToo]

21 minutes ago, seasia said:

As for Vietnam I like it as a tourist destination but have never given any serious thought to living there.

Me too!

Vietnam is perfect for a weeks holiday and a new VISA.

Edited February 1, 2020 by BritManToo

[yogi100]

10 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

You are welcome to go freeze your ass off in expensive England and put up with women who have an attitude problem a mile wide. That is if you do not die of boredom first.

 

You don't understand the insecurity? Totally unpredictable ever changing visa regs, no pathway to citizenship. Fine, if you wanna be a nomad, but most of us want some security and stability without hassle.

Getting somewhere to live in the UK is not too easy if you're an Englishman with limited funds which will often be the case for returning ex pats.

 

A fellow I know spent a week living out of his suitcase while being shunted around from one London hostel (doss house)  to another where he was only allowed to remain from 9 pm till 8.30 am.

 

Not much fun when you're approaching 70 years of age in the middle of winter.