Cocktail of flu, HIV drugs appears to help fight coronavirus: Thai doctors

[ParkerN]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Biologists at the Indian Institute of Technology issued a paper claiming that the virus has “HIV insertions” in it’s makeup that are unlikely to be “fortuitous”. In other words, more by design than luck. Suggesting that it is a virus made in the lab. It’s not peer reviewed and may well be consistent with Bat coronavirus ... and what they are hinting at may be wrong. There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

 

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

Seems logical, trying to view from the perspective of Thai logic. HIV - virus Therefore, give it a try, might work. Besides, it's an opportunity for a press release to big-note Thai doctors and create a good (if knowingly false) impression.

 

Sad but expected, the same process has been seen with Ebola, Dengue and AIDS; by the time its recognised as BS, nobody remembers except expats in TL anyway. Hopeless and very, very sad. It really is a game with these people, a race to the bottom.

Edited February 3, 2020 by ParkerN

[crazykopite]

And what will be the after effects a few years down the road  

[dallen52]

And how dangerous is that suggestion for the public at large?

A cocktail of drugs and flu medications. 

Add to the other stuff many already take, OTT.

And online quack preparations..

 

But then again, TIT.

[dallen52]

"This is not the cure, but the patient's condition has vastly improved. From testing positive for 10 days under our care, after applying this combination of medicine the test result became negative within 48 hours," Dr. Kriangska Atipornwanich, a lung specialist at Rajavithi, told reporters.

 

And the patients who were not given the above cocktail?

 

Did they also improve?

Because it has run its course without secondary complications.?

 

Better to keep ones mouth shut until conclusive evidence is available...

[Grumpy John]

The fine print on all the pharmacy drugs is a bit blurry to my tired eyes,  but if their trying different things to find a solution it's fine by me.....as long as they don't kill the patient.  But if they did the death certificate could read different to reality......which is pretty much standard practice around the world.

[raccos21]

So how about the side effects the patient would face later? Did anyone interview the patient’s health after the treatment? 

[robert888d]

Don't believe everything you read!

[Jonathan Swift]

And still promoting the false belief that off the shelf facemasks are effective. Viruses are infinitessimally small, little bigger than the thin strand of a DNA or RNA molecule they contain. Masks will not filter them. Anyone who paid attention in a high school science class should know this. Anyone who reads accurate qualified news on the subject knows this. Additionally, these viruses are spread through hand contact with surfaces or other peoples hands or bodies, not though the air, unless someone sneezes right at you.  But monkey see monkey do carries more weight than actual fact. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Jonathan Swift
Correct

[Jimbo2014]

6 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Biologists at the Indian Institute of Technology issued a paper claiming that the virus has “HIV insertions” in it’s makeup that are unlikely to be “fortuitous”. In other words, more by design than luck. Suggesting that it is a virus made in the lab. It’s not peer reviewed and may well be consistent with Bat coronavirus ... and what they are hinting at may be wrong. There is a top level Institute of Virology based in Wuhan. They research, amongst other things, bat coronavirus.

 

I was puzzled as to as to why doctors would use HIV drugs?

Probably gave the patients a bag of random antibiotics as usual.  Throw enough S$it at the wall and some may stick?

[dallen52]

Good news 11am 03/02 on the box, is that Italian scientists have isolated the virus and will share the results with the rest of the world...

[ThomasThBKK]

2 hours ago, justin case said:

Thailand did it again, after CANCER, AIDS, HIV, EBOLA, they now cured CORONA

 

what about follow up of these patients and the cocktail ?

 

maybe they recover from "this" and die in a few weeks from what those other drugs did/are doing as side effects... 

 

but same as road deaths, if they don't die on the spot, they just don't count in the statistics

 

 

I only know about the Ebola one, but the antibody got licensed by a US pharmacy giant and is real. 

 

Mahidol is a partner of the Bill Gates foundation and works with Oxford and MIT on tropical medicine (https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Media-Center/Press-Releases/2000/11/Initiative-to-Control-Malaria-in-Thailand), they aren't anywhere as incompetent as you claim they are, in  fact they are producing a ton of good research on Malaria, Dengue and Ebola (and other stuff...).

 

Sirijaj Hospital belongs to Mahidol, they have an excellent reputation.

It's after all a top 100 university for pharmacy and co worldwide, the reason most thai universities are bad in rankings are because of the military forbidding most social sciences, not because they suck at hard science like medicine.

 

 

@Sheryl prolly knows more about this than i do, but your comment is utterly unjustified.

Also media reporting does not equal what those entities say themselves. 

[KCPhuket]

Brilliant idiots.

[Max69xl]

8 hours ago, AndrewMciver said:

That's really not going to reassure everyone - associate treatment for the virus to one of the most scariest/misunderstood illness's there is. 

 

 

We're talking about a virus, some HIV symptoms are same as when being infected with SARS and Corona. The HIV-virus is not misunderstood at all, it just keeps mutating. That's why it isn't easy to come up with a vaccine. 

[CLW]

Fake news. Nothing new or spectacular.

As often, it is displayed as breakthrough or invention by Thai people.

Instead of addressing the root cause, namely not allowing Chinese citizens or people coming from China to enter the country for a while, they're just trying to treat already occurring cases.

[CGW]

2 minutes ago, CLW said:

Fake news. Nothing new or spectacular.

Indeed, shameless "Big Pharma" promotion! only they can save us! Forget we have immune systems, we needs expensive chemicals to exist! 

[ICELANDMAN]

For many days ago that Chinese doctors wrote that in the genome there are traits of the IHV codes and that they also use this antiviral to try to heal the sick, now the great victory of Thai doctors in a big scoop, maybe now the sick and healed of the coronavirius, brilliant doc.now you have AIDS

[rabas]

35 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

And still promoting the false belief that off the shelf facemasks are effective. Viruses are infinitessimally small, little bigger than the thin strand of a DNA or RNA molecule they contain. Masks will not filter them. Anyone who paid attention in a high school science class should know this. Anyone who reads accurate qualified news on the subject knows this. Additionally, these viruses are spread through hand contact with surfaces or other peoples hands or bodies, not though the air, unless someone sneezes right at you.  But monkey see monkey do carries more weight than actual fact. 

Your comment about alternate roots is correct but your mask analysis is not. Catching a virus and a particles passing through a mask is based on probability. 

 

A mask is not made of little holes of a given size and smaller things automatically pass through. It's more like trying to run through a forest at night wearing a suit made of double sided sticky tape. Also, small viral particles (0.10um) are mostly inside larger droplets or, even if dry, are gummed up with sticky mucus or clumped together. They are not 0.1um steel balls. Thus all masks provide some protection against exposure, and none are absolutely perfect. I would wear one in any area where people were sneezing or coughing.

 

IOW, if 10 droplets, 3 with a virus particle hit your cheap mask that only caught 90%, chances are you will not get the virus. Also, just because one particle gets in your lungs does not mean you will get it.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by rabas

[Matzzon]

And again we have all the posters out in force to hack the Thai doctors to pieces. I think it´s better to be positive over everything that can contribute to a lesser amount of dead people. 

[holy cow cm]

Well, maybe it is true and then the cured patients will also be able to walk on water if they hold their physicians hand while signing a V for victory sign with the other hand. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if this corona virus was a lab test put into place.

Edited February 3, 2020 by holy cow cm

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, Yinn said:

Have the Link?

Why not read some of the factual posts, like the one 2 posts up which provided the published link?

 

2 hours ago, NightSky said:

You are talking nonesense. It is not 1980. Hiv is very well managed and treatments are highly advanced. Maybe you don’t understand it because you haven’t studied it from reliable sources..

 

..if the same treatments are effective against other virus then why not use them. 

The issue is that the use of the two drugs in question are not known to be effective. This is why they are being used in the clinical trial that started January 2, 2020 in Wuhan and that  is being done under   international observation. What the Thais have done is to use a drug off label. In the parts of the world where there is an actual interest in public health and safety, off label use is subject to oversight and is certainly not undertaken in the absence of clinical trial evidence. I will go one step further: Many researchers would consider off label use  unethical and a wrongful act in the absence of supporting criteria and while a clinical trial was underway.

 

2 hours ago, Oxx said:

All this ill-informed negativity towards Thai doctors.

 

What the doctors have tried is absolutely logical.  The virus is an RNA virus (as is the HIV virus), and as such, to replicate the viruses are dependent upon reverse transcriptase (an enzyme which creates DNA from RNA).  Drugs which block reverse transcriptase prevent virus replication.  This works well to stop HIV.  It could be expected to do the same for coronaviruses.

This is not logical. It is inappropriate. Are you aware that off label use in the absence of supporting  documentation  can result in serious sanction in  much of the world?  The assume results. before a drug can be deemed effective for the treatment of a new illness there must be clinical evidence and this requires the drug to first be studied under the  strict protocols of a clinical trial. In the  developed world we do not administer drugs to patients without having tested for efficacy, for safety, for appropriate dosing.  

 

1 hour ago, Yadon Toploy said:

Thank you for an excellent post 

Nothing excellent about a post supporting unethical and inappropriate  conduct.

 

1 hour ago, AJS150654 said:

I am a Farang living in Thailand and totally agree with the post by Sirineou about negativity being shown by Farangs. I believe the Thai's are in a Catch 22 situation, report nothing and be ridiculed or pass on something positive and still be ridiculed. I say well done Thailand for your efforts to control this disease, in a country with such a large number of Chinese tourists. I really think it's time all those negative and sarcastic Farang's buttoned their lips, or leave ????

In your rush to defend the Thais, you  ignore accepted convention and accepted good practice. The Thais were not in a Catch 22 position.  Rather, they had the opportunity to observe and to participate with the rest of the world in an ethical clinical trial. The Chinese published in Lancet and allowed for peer review. What the Thais have done is anybody's guess. Nothing is published or declared. Are you not aware of what happens when we use strong drugs for offlabel use without understanding  the  complications, and potential impact upon selection to drug resistant  infections? In plain language, it is wrong to   undertake off label use  when there is no documentation to support the effictiveness of the  offlabel use. When physicians  engage in such behaviour they are experimenting upon patients. Are you aware that such experimentation  can inflict serious damage? this is why clinical trials are subject to such intense oversight, with requirements for informed patient consent, ethical and scientific review panels and peer review.  

I will be even more blunt: If the Thai physicians undertook off label use without discussion with the disease experts, without informing stakeholders and without clearing with WHO then those physicians, had they been in the countries which bring the new treatments to the public, would be subject to serious sanctions. Cowboy actions give us drug resistant diseases and even more lethal infections. This is why we have protocols and international practices.

While you are praising the Thais, I can assure you that there are most likely a large number of foreign  public health officials cursing them. The Thais do not have the intellectual capital, nor the advanced laboratories to  manage this disease. They need to leave it to the countries who have a history of responding. 

[ThomasThBKK]

3 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Why not read some of the factual posts, like the one 2 posts up which provided the published link?

 

The issue is that the use of the two drugs in question are not known to be effective. This is why they are being used in the clinical trial that started January 2, 2020 in Wuhan and that  is being done under   international observation. What the Thais have done is to use a drug off label. In the parts of the world where there is an actual interest in public health and safety, off label use is subject to oversight and is certainly not undertaken in the absence of clinical trial evidence. I will go one step further: Many researchers would consider off label use  unethical and a wrongful act in the absence of supporting criteria and while a clinical trial was underway.

 

This is not logical. It is inappropriate. Are you aware that off label use in the absence of supporting  documentation  can result in serious sanction in  much of the world?  The assume results. before a drug can be deemed effective for the treatment of a new illness there must be clinical evidence and this requires the drug to first be studied under the  strict protocols of a clinical trial. In the  developed world we do not administer drugs to patients without having tested for efficacy, for safety, for appropriate dosing.  

 

Nothing excellent about a post supporting unethical and inappropriate  conduct.

 

In your rush to defend the Thais, you  ignore accepted convention and accepted good practice. The Thais were not in a Catch 22 position.  Rather, they had the opportunity to observe and to participate with the rest of the world in an ethical clinical trial. The Chinese published in Lancet and allowed for peer review. What the Thais have done is anybody's guess. Nothing is published or declared. Are you not aware of what happens when we use strong drugs for offlabel use without understanding  the  complications, and potential impact upon selection to drug resistant  infections? In plain language, it is wrong to   undertake off label use  when there is no documentation to support the effictiveness of the  offlabel use. When physicians  engage in such behaviour they are experimenting upon patients. Are you aware that such experimentation  can inflict serious damage? this is why clinical trials are subject to such intense oversight, with requirements for informed patient consent, ethical and scientific review panels and peer review.  

I will be even more blunt: If the Thai physicians undertook off label use without discussion with the disease experts, without informing stakeholders and without clearing with WHO then those physicians, had they been in the countries which bring the new treatments to the public, would be subject to serious sanctions. Cowboy actions give us drug resistant diseases and even more lethal infections. This is why we have protocols and international practices.

While you are praising the Thais, I can assure you that there are most likely a large number of foreign  public health officials cursing them. The Thais do not have the intellectual capital, nor the advanced laboratories to  manage this disease. They need to leave it to the countries who have a history of responding. 

http://research.uga.edu/docs/policies/compliance/hso/Guidance-on-Emergency-and-Off-Label-Use-of-Drugs-Biologics-and-Medical-Devices.pdf

 

Off label use is totally fine in emergency situations, it is often even paid by insurance companies (cancer treatments etc).

 

 

I think, if you ever get this, you should refuse the doctors if they offer you this medicine. Just to make a point.

 

[rabas]

4 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

This is not logical. It is inappropriate. Are you aware that off label use in the absence of supporting  documentation  can result in serious sanction in  much of the world?  The assume results. before a drug can be deemed effective for the treatment of a new illness there must be clinical evidence and this requires the drug to first be studied under the  strict protocols of a clinical trial. In the  developed world we do not administer drugs to patients without having tested for efficacy, for safety, for appropriate dosing.  

Are you aware that doctors throughout the world were doing the same thing during the SARS epidemic? I posted a reference to some of the results but I guess you did not read it. The use of HIV drugs against SARS like viruses in not new. Here is one of a ton of papers from 2004:  HIV protease inhibitor nelfinavir inhibits replication of SARS-associated coronavirus.

[DrTuner]

What's the availability of these drugs? Nearing 20k confirmed, so I guess it'll be cadres first, then informers and the rest can duke it out by themselves.

Edited February 3, 2020 by DrTuner

[mindfulness]

No news on extracting antibodies and make a serum from those who have pulled through ? 

Edited February 3, 2020 by mindfulness
Grammar

[rabas]

2 minutes ago, mindfulness said:

No news on extracting antibodies and make a serum from those who have pulled through ? 

Wuhan will eventually supply the world with armies of pretty nurses now immune to the virus. New Chinese export.

 

[RickTik]

Like most of us, I hope that is true. However, something tells me it is not. 

[dallen52]

2 hours ago, bbi1 said:

 

 

So, if that Thai man doesn't have coronavirus can he sue Reuters for defamation for claiming that he has it? Maybe he wasn't even wearing it for that reason.

But we have a ministry of false news now  .

(See previous topics).

Surely they will come down on the perpetrators of these slurios comments?

[dallen52]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

Wuhan will eventually supply the world with armies of pretty nurses now immune to the virus. New Chinese export.

 

Wuhan China has built a 2000 bed isolation hospital in 10 days.  

Truly amazing stuff.

 

Fiendishly clever these Chinese.  

(And it will not fall down). 

[sawadee1947]

Now we will have no doubts anymore..... 

Thailand takes the leadership in Medicine. 

It's just a hub of science and Intelligence ????

[RJRS1301]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Now we will have no doubts anymore..... 

Thailand takes the leadership in Medicine. 

It's just a hub of science and Intelligence ????

We shall all rest so much better with that endosement