So: face masks do help reduce infection

[Tony125]

No, Face Coverings Don’t Cause Carbon Dioxide Poisoning. Five Mask Myths Debunked.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/no-face-coverings-dont-cause-carbon-dioxide-poisoning-five-mask-myths-debunked/ar-BB16uqsV?li=BBnb7Kz

[Tony125]

Face Masks Protect You More From COVID Than You Thought, Doctors Say

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/face-masks-protect-you-more-from-covid-than-you-thought-doctors-say/ar-BB16ylTh?li=BBnba9O

[mommysboy]

Airborne infection refers to small and even nano particles in the air around us, and is of concern in confined spaces particularly where many people gather.  Basically, a paper mask will very likely do nothing to help, since it is not in the least airtight.  Indeed, contaminated air will not only spill in at the sides, but also through the mask fabric itself.  

 

Thus, when talking of prevention the focus should be on providing adequate filtration and ventilation.  Whilst those robustly vocal contend the air outside can also pose a risk, most regard this as irrational, since any viral particles become heavily diluted and in any case subject to the elements, which render them not viable.  In the case where someone has been infected at the beach for instance, the main consideration would be on what they were doing and with whom, since closer contact with an infected person is a prerequisite.  

 

The value of paper masks, if any, would be in preventing water droplet exposure to the unfortunates roughly in the direct firing line of an infected person in full throw, as with a sneeze, cough, splutter, or yell.  Similarly, if this holds true as a hypotheses then it also follows that the receiver might also wear a mask as a barrier to the liquid offering.  It is simply not known how effective this method of prevention is, but it is probably true to say that it is better than nothing.

 

There are a few additional factors that are rarely considered.  Firstly, a paper mask could actually become a liability if not changed frequently, particularly where water droplet exposure is suspected, because like all paper materials it is absorbent- in effect then it is not too dissimilar to a tissue, and possibly worse since it is constantly held close to the nose and mouth.  Secondly, because masks are given undue praise, the wearer may arrogate an inappropriate sense of security in much the same manner as those in olden times did when adorning a ring of roses to counteract Black Death.  Finally, by not a wearing a mask it is possible to attract negative attention from others of a militant and uneducated disposition, which could actually be more dangerous than infection with virus.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by mommysboy

[Tony125]

Vid on how to make  a surgical mask fit better

 

 

[Tony125]

On 7/10/2020 at 1:31 PM, mommysboy said:

Airborne infection refers to small and even nano particles in the air around us, and is of concern in confined spaces particularly where many people gather.  Basically, a paper mask will very likely do nothing to help, since it is not in the least airtight.  Indeed, contaminated air will not only spill in at the sides, but also through the mask fabric itself.  

 

Thus, when talking of prevention the focus should be on providing adequate filtration and ventilation.  Whilst those robustly vocal contend the air outside can also pose a risk, most regard this as irrational, since any viral particles become heavily diluted and in any case subject to the elements, which render them not viable.  In the case where someone has been infected at the beach for instance, the main consideration would be on what they were doing and with whom, since closer contact with an infected person is a prerequisite.  

 

The value of paper masks, if any, would be in preventing water droplet exposure to the unfortunates roughly in the direct firing line of an infected person in full throw, as with a sneeze, cough, splutter, or yell.  Similarly, if this holds true as a hypotheses then it also follows that the receiver might also wear a mask as a barrier to the liquid offering.  It is simply not known how effective this method of prevention is, but it is probably true to say that it is better than nothing.

 

There are a few additional factors that are rarely considered.  Firstly, a paper mask could actually become a liability if not changed frequently, particularly where water droplet exposure is suspected, because like all paper materials it is absorbent- in effect then it is not too dissimilar to a tissue, and possibly worse since it is constantly held close to the nose and mouth.  Secondly, because masks are given undue praise, the wearer may arrogate an inappropriate sense of security in much the same manner as those in olden times did when adorning a ring of roses to counteract Black Death.  Finally, by not a wearing a mask it is possible to attract negative attention from others of a militant and uneducated disposition, which could actually be more dangerous than infection with virus.

 

 

The CDC Just Issued This Big News About Face Masks

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-cdc-just-issued-this-big-news-about-face-masks/ar-BB16Jq97?li=BBnb7Kz

[mommysboy]

35 minutes ago, Tony125 said:

The CDC Just Issued This Big News About Face Masks

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/the-cdc-just-issued-this-big-news-about-face-masks/ar-BB16Jq97?li=BBnb7Kz

Yes, the value if any would be in preventing water droplets reaching someone in very close vicinity.  This is an example of intimate contact.  The members of the household were more likely subject to long duration airborne infection for which masks offer no barrier unfortunately.  The customers were likely in the chair for a short time then left the premises.  This is an observation, not even a study.  

 

But yes let's give it a go.  I hate lockdowns and if you and everyone else is so confident of masks then there is really is no need for social distancing, closures, etc.

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, the value if any would be in preventing water droplets reaching someone in very close vicinity.  This is an example of intimate contact.  The members of the household were more likely subject to long duration airborne infection for which masks offer no barrier unfortunately.  The customers were likely in the chair for a short time then left the premises.  This is an observation, not even a study.  

 

But yes let's give it a go.  I hate lockdowns and if you and everyone else is so confident of masks then there is really is no need for social distancing, closures, etc.

Masks by themselves are not the be all/end all of the solution but wearing masks in conjunction with soccial distancing, hand and surface sanitizing can keep us from having to shut down and stay at home untill a  treatment or vaccine is developed. No mask is 100% effective but they do limit the amount/load virus you get in your lungs. Like poison, drink a little get sick a lot your dead.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

Masks by themselves are not the be all/end all of the solution but wearing masks in conjunction with soccial distancing, hand and surface sanitizing can keep us from having to shut down and stay at home untill a  treatment or vaccine is developed. No mask is 100% effective but they do limit the amount/load virus you get in your lungs. Like poison, drink a little get sick a lot your dead.

I hope so, but I rather suspect masks provide very little protection- but it's better than nothing I guess and probably worth doing!  The story is insufficient to tell what really happened. We are told that that it was asymptomatic infection and then became mildly symptomatic, and I rather think that is the clue here.  Without more details we don't know who infected who back at their houses.  I do think that the main story here is that asymptomatic/mildly symptomatic carriers are far less likely to infect others in social situations.  As you say, dual masking may be a protective factor.

Edited July 15, 2020 by mommysboy

[doggie1955]

Let's just look at the numbers... Because the numbers are all wrong

 

https://www.facebook.com/An0malyMusic/videos/276398760288570/UzpfSTEwMDAwMDM5Mjg1NDkyMjozMzA1NjgwMjM5NDU1MDM5/

 

[Tony125]

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine candidate appears to be safe and provide some immunity, new data from early trial shows

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/moderna-s-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-appears-to-be-safe-and-provide-some-immunity-new-data-from-early-trial-shows/ar-BB16JC3z?li=BBnba9O

[mommysboy]

10 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Moderna's COVID-19 vaccine candidate appears to be safe and provide some immunity, new data from early trial shows

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/moderna-s-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-appears-to-be-safe-and-provide-some-immunity-new-data-from-early-trial-shows/ar-BB16JC3z?li=BBnba9O

Likewise the Oxford trial, which also appears to stimulate T cells.

[englishoak]

People are so easy to scare these days. 

[Peter Denis]

Masking cannot be looked at 'in isolation'.

Just posted this in the thread 'The Logic of Masking'

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1170580-the-logic-of-masking/?do=findComment&comment=15620832

Text copy/pasted below >

 

The motivation for lock-downs was to 'flatten the curve' and avoid the health-system being swamped and not being able to cope with people needing treatment.  The reality was that except for a couple of hard-hit places, the hospitals were never swamped.

The lock-down and other measures were only introduced to 'buy time'.  The simple fact is that eventually everybody will be exposed to covid-19 (you can't hide forever, or wait till the Magic Vaccine will be available for everybody).

Sounds scary but it isn't.  Majority of those that got it, didn't even notice that they were infected or only displayed mild symptoms.  It's the elderly and those with challenged immune systems because of other illnesses or unhealthy lifestyle, that are at risk.  Sure, these need to be protected, but not by imposing across-the-board measures on everybody.

The media did an excellent scare-mongering job even going so far as to block and censure imminent scientists going against the stream and questioning or downright demonstrating the ineffectiveness of some of these measures (including the current Testing-testing-testing paradigm).

I won't go so far as to say that it was a storm in a tea-cup, because that's not correct.  But blind irrational fear is not a good adviser.

[Tony125]

 Wearing masks became compulsory in Australia’s second-largest city, Melbourne, as hot spot Victoria state posted 403 new cases and five deaths. Much of the spread is blamed on sick workers who do not take time off from their jobs while they wait for coronavirus test results. The wait for those results has usually been two days. The state government announced Thursday that workers who do not have sick leave will be eligible for a one-time support payment of 300 Australian dollars ($213) while they await test results.

 

Also: Melbourne security bribed to let quaranteen persons out

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1181911/sex-coronavirus-victims-melbourne-hotel-outbreak-guards/?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly

[dastakantattaka]

2nd or 3rd wave in Hong Kong is taking place despite the fact that everyone there has been wearing a mask.

 

Does a mask help then?

[dastakantattaka]

On 7/15/2020 at 11:13 AM, mommysboy said:

I hope so, but I rather suspect masks provide very little protection- but it's better than nothing I guess and probably worth doing! 

if there was "nothing" to protect a human from viruses, all humans would've already died out thousands of years ago.

[redwood1]

 

[connda]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:52 PM, RocketDog said:

it is common sense that a mask reduces infection both from and to other people. Anything is intuitively better than nothing. Apparently evidence now belatedly supports this view.

Actually, it's as effective as surrounding your house with a chain-link fence to keep the mosquitoes out.
Intuitively it makes you feel better.  So, from a psychological level you'll benefit from the placebo effect.
"Evidence'" abounds for whichever side of the argument you support. 
 

[RocketDog]

35 minutes ago, connda said:

Actually, it's as effective as surrounding your house with a chain-link fence to keep the mosquitoes out.
Intuitively it makes you feel better.  So, from a psychological level you'll benefit from the placebo effect.
"Evidence'" abounds for whichever side of the argument you support. 
 

You're partially correct. Several studies now prove beyond doubt, with videos, that a mask greatly limits the travel of droplets FROM an infected person. Naturally enough, the more layers of cloth, the more effective it is. 

 

Again, this is intuitive. Personal experience should be sufficient to prove that sneezing into your elbow or using a tissue limits flying debris. 

 

As for living in the Kingdom I find that wearing a mask eases my interaction with Thai people, some of who ride motorbikes with masks but not helmets. So psychology is clearly a factor as well. 

 

However, I've lost any interest in arguing this point with staunch anti-mask folks, which you may or may not be. 

 

In any event this thread is ancient history. The discussion is largely moot. Most people are now thoroughly entrenched in their respective positions, including me. 

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

...

In any event this thread is ancient history. The discussion is largely moot. Most people are now thoroughly entrenched in their respective positions, including me. 

Even though we are on different sides of the fence, I respect your opinion.  So let's just have a beer together and celebrate diversity.

[RocketDog]

16 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Even though we are on different sides of the fence, I respect your opinion.  So let's just have a beer together and celebrate diversity.

Agreed. ????

[3NUMBAS]

theres enough dead doctors and nurses in the UK to show they dont work, most were SAGE but some whites..italians on the front line have self contained breathing helmets to be sure

[Puccini]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

...most were SAGE...

What do you mean with sage.

[Puccini]

1 hour ago, 3NUMBAS said:

theres enough dead doctors and nurses in the UK to show they dont work, most were SAGE but some whites..italians on the front line have self contained breathing helmets to be sure

Who said or wrote that "they", ie face masks, by themselves give absolute protection to medical care staff or anybody else from contracting SARS-CoV-2 or any other potentially fatal virus?

 

In other words you appear to be trolling.

[geriatrickid]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:24 AM, dastakantattaka said:

2nd or 3rd wave in Hong Kong is taking place despite the fact that everyone there has been wearing a mask.

 

Does a mask help then?

Is your misrepresentation of what has occurred intentional, or just a manifestation of ignorance? 

Mandatory mask wearing only took effect on July 15 after the increase in infections. 

 

Have you considered that the voluntary use of masks  helped to contain the spread and that it would be far worse than what is being seen now or would that reveal  your actual intent to use the Hong kong situation as a means of pushing your personal political agenda?

 

Masks have helped contain general community transmission.  Instead of seeking a basis upon which to  criticize the use of masks, why not look at the big picture?  The spread of the disease in Hong Kong has little to do with the wearing of masks. If we look at the most recent cases of yesterday (Sunday) we see that;

- 25 are imported (from travelers);

- 68 are direct social transmissions (linked to other infections) usually involving family members, co-workers or social gatherings;

- 35 are still being investigated.

 

Hong Kong had some gaps in its social distancing policy and it has taken measures to address this.

The biggest deficiency had been the the allowance for unrestricted sea crew change in Hong Kong. Thousands of foreigners not subject to quarantine, were coming into contact with Hong Kong residents. It was a major gap allowed because it protected Hong Kong's lucrative  marine  hub operations. This is now being stopped.

 

After the relaxation of restrictions, bars and large social gatherings were identified as one of the largest contact points of infection for younger people. (We are seeing the same thing in the EU, North America and Australia.) In Hong Kong, as of July 15, public gatherings are back to a limit of four people from the previously allowed 50. There is now mandatory mask-wearing in all indoor public spaces (shopping centres, building lobbies, shops, supermarkets, as well as transport terminals.)

Edited July 26, 2020 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

On 7/24/2020 at 6:08 AM, Peter Denis said:

Even though we are on different sides of the fence, I respect your opinion.  So let's just have a beer together and celebrate diversity.

There is nothing to celebrate when one argument is based upon ignorance and an inability to comprehend established fact. Allowing the propagation of ignorant claims on the basis of "free speech" or (polite discourse), indirectly validates the false claims because it allows them consideration. A falsehood is a falsehood.  It is that approach that gives a platform to ignorant airheads like Jenny McCarthy and her continuous false claims of a link between autism and vaccines.  Never ever do these people admit to making an error or retract their claims when they are proven incorrect. However, when  reputable scientists alter their positions to  account for scientific development and advances, they are the first to criticize and  cry out, see they were wrong.  The day you follow the same process and rules of engagement as those in the scientific community is the day you can make your demand.

[CGW]

On 4/2/2020 at 4:39 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Pointless arguing about this anyway. People still claiming wearing the rubbish masks generally available in Thailand is a good thing

Gullibility, is there a cure?

[Peter Denis]

On 7/24/2020 at 12:08 PM, Peter Denis said:

Even though we are on different sides of the fence, I respect your opinion.  So let's just have a beer together and celebrate diversity.

 

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

There is nothing to celebrate when one argument is based upon ignorance and an inability to comprehend established fact. Allowing the propagation of ignorant claims on the basis of "free speech" or (polite discourse), indirectly validates the false claims because it allows them consideration. A falsehood is a falsehood.  It is that approach that gives a platform to ignorant airheads like Jenny McCarthy and her continuous false claims of a link between autism and vaccines.  Never ever do these people admit to making an error or retract their claims when they are proven incorrect. However, when  reputable scientists alter their positions to  account for scientific development and advances, they are the first to criticize and  cry out, see they were wrong.  The day you follow the same process and rules of engagement as those in the scientific community is the day you can make your demand.

 

I reject this baseless claim that @RocketDog is ignorant and unable to comprehend established fact.  ????

[steelepulse]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

There is nothing to celebrate when one argument is based upon ignorance and an inability to comprehend established fact. Allowing the propagation of ignorant claims on the basis of "free speech" or (polite discourse), indirectly validates the false claims because it allows them consideration. A falsehood is a falsehood.  It is that approach that gives a platform to ignorant airheads like Jenny McCarthy and her continuous false claims of a link between autism and vaccines.  Never ever do these people admit to making an error or retract their claims when they are proven incorrect. However, when  reputable scientists alter their positions to  account for scientific development and advances, they are the first to criticize and  cry out, see they were wrong.  The day you follow the same process and rules of engagement as those in the scientific community is the day you can make your demand.

Interesting fact about " the science" is the "scientists" have no answers for many things.

 

“Listen to the science,” urged the young climate activist Greta Thunberg in the middle of the COVID crisis.
Science, however, is not a neat set of infallible statements but an ongoing search for the truth.

 

“The Science” has been all over the place in this crisis: how the virus spreads and doesn’t spread, the role of children (do they transmit the virus to others or not?), whether Sweden’s approach is a good idea (in April the head of the Health Emergencies Program of the World Health Organization praised Sweden’s avoidance of a lockdown as a “model”!), why some countries do so much better than others (the hysterics have ghoulishly rubbed their hands together in anticipation of a Japanese outbreak that never occurred), whether lockdowns even work (the numbers show pretty much no correlation between timing and severity of lockdowns on the one hand and the health outcomes on the other), and on and on.

 

 

[scammed]

43 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

Interesting fact about " the science" is the "scientists" have no answers for many things.

 

“Listen to the science,” urged the young climate activist Greta Thunberg in the middle of the COVID crisis.
Science, however, is not a neat set of infallible statements but an ongoing search for the truth.

 

“The Science” has been all over the place in this crisis: how the virus spreads and doesn’t spread, the role of children (do they transmit the virus to others or not?), whether Sweden’s approach is a good idea (in April the head of the Health Emergencies Program of the World Health Organization praised Sweden’s avoidance of a lockdown as a “model”!), why some countries do so much better than others (the hysterics have ghoulishly rubbed their hands together in anticipation of a Japanese outbreak that never occurred), whether lockdowns even work (the numbers show pretty much no correlation between timing and severity of lockdowns on the one hand and the health outcomes on the other), and on and on.

 

 

greta has divine powers, she can see co2 molecules and rna without electron microscope,

who are we mere mortals to scrutinize her divine visions ?

and who knows, maybe these divine powers that she revealed to possess is just the tip of the iceberg ? next she will finally define what time really is,

she already indicated the gift of foresight, she can look into the future

and conclude we are heading straight for gods punishment,

yet, you come to her asking for weather forecast, how dare you ?

Edited July 27, 2020 by scammed