1 hour ago, candide said:

So you think that they should not pass information given by the only available source of information at that time? Wouldn't people complain they hide critical information to other member states?

 

But they did not "pass on" information. They took the information and uncritically stated it like fact without so much as an asterisk or notation that its yet to be confirmed by the WHO or anyone else. 

The most horrifically incompetent leader of ANY country, anywhere on earth. I've started telling people that I am Canadian.

48 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

But they did not "pass on" information. They took the information and uncritically stated it like fact without so much as an asterisk or notation that its yet to be confirmed by the WHO or anyone else. 

Incorrect.

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

Do you not see how you are going in circles here ? They acted unbelievably slow and with bad information . This whole thing has been blown completely out of proportion . Somehow you blame it on trump instead of the Chinese and the WHO. Your blind hate is not allowing common sense to prevail . 

Nonsense, that is what nobody is doing.

 

What many are saying is, who was slow and should have done better. But USA and UK acted extremely slow, and with plenty of warning, also from WHO, were still downplaying 45 days after WHO issued global health warning.

 

Therefore blaming WHO is not justified and a mere deflection.

9 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Breitbart is every bit as credible as CNN, MSNBC or any other leftist media outlet. Whether or not you admit it is irrelevant.

 

Now.... you yourself called it the "pandemic response team". Let's start with the difference between responding to and preventing. There's your first error.

 

You have yet to show any record of success of the "pandemic response team".

 

You also complained that being moved to Homeland Security was an issue- not even realizing the "pandemic response team" operated out of the National Security Council during the Obama years. Rational minds understand this to mean this was a political team and not one of medicine. But feel free to keep digging.

I'm sure to the extreme right breitbart is credible.

 

But please read the entire link, no reasonable thinking person can reach the conclusion dissolving the pandemic response team did not negatively affect the response (is presuming Trump would have listened to anyone).

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

What many are saying is, who was slow and should have done better. But USA and UK acted extremely slow, and with plenty of warning, also from WHO, were still downplaying 45 days after WHO issued global health warning.

 

Gotta love the "what many are saying" anecdote as if that holds any water whatsoever. 

 

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Therefore blaming WHO is not justified and a mere deflection.

 

According to the "many people" you are referring to I take it. 

 

Nobody is blaming the WHO for the outbreak, they are a simply one cog in a series of cogs that originated in china and are being held accountable. 

 

Why people on the left are so hell bent on denying reality when trump is involved is beyond me, and those same people should be disregarded as unserious partisans. 

 

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Incorrect.

 

According to "many people" I suppose. 

3 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Gotta love the "what many are saying" anecdote as if that holds any water whatsoever. 

 

 

According to the "many people" you are referring to I take it. 

 

Nobody is blaming the WHO for the outbreak, they are a simply one cog in a series of cogs that originated in china and are being held accountable. 

 

Why people on the left are so hell bent on denying reality when trump is involved is beyond me, and those same people should be disregarded as unserious partisans. 

 

 

According to "many people" I suppose. 

Just post the WHO information at the time. The one where they say 'no clear evidence of human to human infection' and the one where they indicate the information coming from China about human to human infection may be not correct.

 

Your post is confusing.

Some posts containing inflammatory comments toward other members have been removed as well as the replies:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

A post in which the quoted content had been altered and the ensuing bickering session have been removed:

 

16) You will not make changes to quoted material from other members posts, except for purposes of shortening the quoted post. This cannot be done in such a manner that it alters the context of the original post.

14 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Thanks for pointing out what a low infection rate the US has. Thank you, president Trump! Cuomo and de Blasio? Not so much.

Statistics are amazing aren't they.
Everybody can read what they want and if one does not like it can say the data are not correct.
let's do another sorting of yesterday's data: 

 

Have to add that there seems to be a significant correlation between population density and Total Cases per million (about .58 if counting pop>1.000.000 and without normalising the data in the table) and hence huge differences in top 10 countries by population.
Logical actually, big cities are (a) more prone to transmission and moreover are (b) likely to have higher testing and (c ) higher case numbers / million and therefore seem to be harder hit than the country side.
So, one could say that the USA does a good job at identifying cases but is not up to scratch with other "developed" countries yet.
In this context It would be interesting to get a more detailed overview of the USA and analyse pop/km2 to cases/million. 

6 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

But they did not "pass on" information. They took the information and uncritically stated it like fact without so much as an asterisk or notation that its yet to be confirmed by the WHO or anyone else. 

Have you read any of the WHO Covid situation reports? i have provided an example below, of which there are currently 80 plus anyone can access. One has to remember WHO were not permitted entry to PRC for on the ground research until 18/02. The WHO report and conclusions were published on 28/02.

 

https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200121-sitrep-1-2019-ncov.pdf?sfvrsn=20a99c10_4

2 hours ago, KKr said:

Statistics are amazing aren't they.
Everybody can read what they want and if one does not like it can say the data are not correct.
let's do another sorting of yesterday's data: 

 

Have to add that there seems to be a significant correlation between population density and Total Cases per million (about .58 if counting pop>1.000.000 and without normalising the data in the table) and hence huge differences in top 10 countries by population.
Logical actually, big cities are (a) more prone to transmission and moreover are (b) likely to have higher testing and (c ) higher case numbers / million and therefore seem to be harder hit than the country side.
So, one could say that the USA does a good job at identifying cases but is not up to scratch with other "developed" countries yet.
In this context It would be interesting to get a more detailed overview of the USA and analyse pop/km2 to cases/million. 

forget about the second paragraph, on the country level data, there seems to be a correlation between population density and cases/million but not significant.
would need more detailed data to proof this assumption, and in which subset of cases the result is significant.

2 hours ago, KKr said:

Have to add that there seems to be a significant correlation between population density and Total Cases per million (about .58 if counting pop>1.000.000 and without normalising the data in the table) and hence huge differences in top 10 countries by population.
Logical actually, big cities are (a) more prone to transmission and moreover are (b) likely to have higher testing and (c ) higher case numbers / million and therefore seem to be harder hit than the country side.
So, one could say that the USA does a good job at identifying cases but is not up to scratch with other "developed" countries yet.
In this context It would be interesting to get a more detailed overview of the USA and analyse pop/km2 to cases/million. 

I've also looked at the population density factor. I got some interesting results (in particular since Sweden is claimed to be managing the pandemic in such wonderful way).

 

1 minute ago, Forethat said:

I've also looked at the population density factor. I got some interesting results (in particular since Sweden is claimed to be managing the pandemic in such wonderful way).

 

 

2 minutes ago, Forethat said:

I've also looked at the population density factor. I got some interesting results (in particular since Sweden is claimed to be managing the pandemic in such wonderful way).

seems like the neighbours closing the borders protected the Swedes, but the virus seems to have travelled anyway and is catching up.

 

4 minutes ago, KKr said:

 

seems like the neighbours closing the borders protected the Swedes, but the virus seems to have travelled anyway and is catching up.

 

Don't know if they were protected as in this category Sweden is the worst performing country in the world. At least I can't find one that's worse...

7 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

Yes they did . Why would the member states give them enormous amounts of money ? They are not funding them so they can go on full time jollies . They have a job to do and they ballsed it up big time . Again if I was paying you very well and you failed to do your job I’d fire you in a heartbeat . 

No they did not. Check the WHO status voted by its member states. And their huge budget is about one third of the US CDC budget.

I know you want to distract attention from Trump's failure to deal efficiently with the covid19 spread, in particular because he downplayed it during 6 weeks instead of preparing the country.

Some countries did succeed (ex. SK), some didn't. Trump is responsible for the design and implementation of US policy, not the WHO.

by far the majority here and also people i speak to of many backgrounds and political leanings seem to be of the opinion that WHO isnt fit for purpose,never mind trump.like so many large orgs its corrupt and biased.particularily ones with UN affiliation.the people employed and in charge arnt that well qualified and are on the gravy train,they stay in 5 star hotels ,fly business ,have enormous salaries and pensions and then are self righteous and indignant if anyone questions their abilities renumeration and why if they purport to be helping people are seemingly helping themselves.theres never an answer to these simple questions.so why are you paid so much if u wish to help?its that simple and the answer is.....very simple.theres the quite obvious observation that WHO has parroted PRC policy and not protected the people who observed and reported the epidemic is china IE the drs ,reporters and private citizens that were jailed and have disappeared.why isnt the liberal establishment trying to help these people its what theyre supposed to stand for ?if you do try to get some explanations about these issues some parties accuse you of being a right wing fascist!!im not a trumper ,far from it but this is a different issue that shouldnt be approached with bias and politicking.an independent inquiry needs to be made into WHOs behaviour.the silencing of taiwan is another disturbing political bias.the whole thing is extremely disturbing.

7 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

But they did not "pass on" information. They took the information and uncritically stated it like fact without so much as an asterisk or notation that its yet to be confirmed by the WHO or anyone else. 

They clearly indicated the source (China), that there were only preliminary investigations and "no clear evidence" 

 

They also made their OWN statements during the same period of time, indicating that investigations were still ongoing and that human to human transmission was not excluded.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/who-cited-human-transmission-risk-in-january-despite-trump-claims

 

https://www.voanews.com/science-health/who-does-not-rule-out-human-human-spread-new-coronavirus

 

7 hours ago, candide said:

They clearly indicated the source (China), that there were only preliminary investigations and "no clear evidence" 

 

They also made their OWN statements during the same period of time, indicating that investigations were still ongoing and that human to human transmission was not excluded.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/who-cited-human-transmission-risk-in-january-despite-trump-claims

 

https://www.voanews.com/science-health/who-does-not-rule-out-human-human-spread-new-coronavirus

 

We both know that the left wing establishment were having convulsions at the mere mention of closing the borders remember? Remember when they were coming out with the usual xenophobic .. racist .. and any other buzz word they could force out of their offended pipe holes ? Oh yeah that’s that short memory you have . Then after you complain that it wasn’t done quick enough ???? you couldn’t make up how much of an idiotic statement  that is . I’ll bet you are the same person who would protest for the wall to not be built and to let a continuous flow of people from known terrorist states to enter America because of their human rights ! 

Meh... this clown Ricciardi promoting violent rhetoric against any president, let alone the US president, is grounds alone to defund them.

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/update-former-italian-deputy-prime-minister-matteo-salvini-calls-top-officials-resignation-violent-threats-trump/

2 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

We both know that the left wing establishment were having convulsions at the mere mention of closing the borders remember? Remember when they were coming out with the usual xenophobic .. racist .. and any other buzz word they could force out of their offended pipe holes ? Oh yeah that’s that short memory you have . Then after you complain that it wasn’t done quick enough ???? you couldn’t make up how much of an idiotic statement  that is . I’ll bet you are the same person who would protest for the wall to not be built and to let a continuous flow of people from known terrorist states to enter America because of their human rights ! 

Please note the border temporarily closed is because of a virus, not because of religion or the color of their skin. A virus is not xenophobic. Its not even apples and oranges.

31 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Meh... this clown Ricciardi promoting violent rhetoric against any president, let alone the US president, is grounds alone to defund them.

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/update-former-italian-deputy-prime-minister-matteo-salvini-calls-top-officials-resignation-violent-threats-trump/

Because trump has never advocated violence right?

remember when at a rally he said that he would pay the legal fees of anyone who assaulted a protester. Remember when he said police should not protect the head of an arrested person when throwing them into a police car. Remember what he said about the central park five.

 

Any need to go on?

6 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Because trump has never advocated violence right?

remember when at a rally he said that he would pay the legal fees of anyone who assaulted a protester. Remember when he said police should not protect the head of an arrested person when throwing them into a police car. Remember what he said about the central park five.

 

Any need to go on?

Hi Sujo,

I'm not a supporter of President Trump, far from it, but you should provide links to credible sources when making such allegations.

I would be interested to read more about these matters.

10 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Hi Sujo,

I'm not a supporter of President Trump, far from it, but you should provide links to credible sources when making such allegations.

I would be interested to read more about these matters.

Apologies, my bad. Quite easy to find with a simple search. Here is just one of the many reports about him.

 

please note that when his supporter was charged with assault trump said he never said he would pay. No surprise.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/back-trump-comments-perceived-encouraging-violence/story?id=48415766

2 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

We both know that the left wing establishment were having convulsions at the mere mention of closing the borders remember? Remember when they were coming out with the usual xenophobic .. racist .. and any other buzz word they could force out of their offended pipe holes ? Oh yeah that’s that short memory you have . Then after you complain that it wasn’t done quick enough ???? you couldn’t make up how much of an idiotic statement  that is . I’ll bet you are the same person who would protest for the wall to not be built and to let a continuous flow of people from known terrorist states to enter America because of their human rights ! 

Do you claim the left criticized  the decision to close borders to some passengers from China? It's not true and you will not be able to show any quote from Dems criticizing the CHINA travel restrictions.

 

The accusations of xenophoby and racism were about closing borders for citizens of other countries and for other reasons (I.e. Nigeria), and that's out of topic in this thread.

 

But don't let fact get in the way of a good lie from Trump, right?

30 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Please note the border temporarily closed is because of a virus, not because of religion or the color of their skin. A virus is not xenophobic. Its not even apples and oranges.

Please note that the border was being proposed to be shut due to illnesses that had been all but eradicated suddenly exploding (measles for example) but the left fought that too ! The funniest part is they are now saying the border should of been shut quicker !! ???????? you honestly couldn’t make it up .  

1 hour ago, chrisandsu said:

Please note that the border was being proposed to be shut due to illnesses that had been all but eradicated suddenly exploding (measles for example) but the left fought that too ! The funniest part is they are now saying the border should of been shut quicker !! ???????? you honestly couldn’t make it up .  

The muslim ban and those rapists from mexico had measles. Ok. ????

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

Please note the border temporarily closed is because of a virus, not because of religion or the color of their skin. A virus is not xenophobic. Its not even apples and oranges.

I'd like some details on Trump closing the border based on skin color. Got any?

2 hours ago, candide said:

Do you claim the left criticized  the decision to close borders to some passengers from China? It's not true and you will not be able to show any quote from Dems criticizing the CHINA travel restrictions.

 

The accusations of xenophoby and racism were about closing borders for citizens of other countries and for other reasons (I.e. Nigeria), and that's out of topic in this thread.

 

But don't let fact get in the way of a good lie from Trump, right?

What do you suppose Nancy Pelosi was responding to when she told everyone to come to Chinatown in late February?

21 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

What do you suppose Nancy Pelosi was responding to when she told everyone to come to Chinatown in late February?

The post I replied to was stating:"We both know that the left wing establishment were having convulsions at the mere mention of closing the borders remember? Remember when they were coming out with the usual xenophobic .. racist .. and any other buzz word they could force out of their offended pipe holes"

 

Is that all you can come up with? Pathetic....

18 minutes ago, candide said:

The post I replied to was stating:"We both know that the left wing establishment were having convulsions at the mere mention of closing the borders remember? Remember when they were coming out with the usual xenophobic .. racist .. and any other buzz word they could force out of their offended pipe holes"

 

Is that all you can come up with? Pathetic....

Yes, I agree that Nancy Pelosi was responding to Trump. It was pretty obvious.