Easing of confusion...

[FolkGuitar]

1 hour ago, timendres said:

Community is a fine concept, until it puts the desires or fears of a small portion of that community over the needs of the vast majority.

 

You have the right to object to Community rules. Everyone has that right.

But you do NOT have the right to ignore them while remaining within the community. No one has that right.

That is the antithesis of social behavior, and why jails were invented.

Follow the rules or get out. Those are your only two legal options.

If you don't like Thailand's rules, find somewhere else to live. Take your soapbox with you. Those of us who chose to follow the rules won't miss you. Trust me on that one.

[canthai55]

I have said it before, and I will say it again

This C-19 has been blown Way Way out of proportion.

Lock down the whole world - on the advise of the Gov't !!!

How can you believe the Gov't - they are only looking out for themselves, and the vested interests who got them elected and dictate how the rest of the population will live.

Good of the Community ? Don't make me laugh. It is an exercise in Fear masquerading as Caring.

Bottom line - if you are at Risk - YOU should be isolated, not the rest of the population.

Most who get it recover, unless they have underlying medical conditions. In which case lock them up for their own good.

The rest of the world will come into contact with the virus, their body will fight it off.

End Of

[canthai55]

9 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

You have the right to object to Community rules. Everyone has that right.

But you do NOT have the right to ignore them while remaining within the community. No one has that right.

 

So fighting against Injustice is not allowed ? Because of Community Rules ?

All the Union Busting in the past, where companies hired Goons with shotguns to shoot protesters, while the Police looked on and did nothing ?

Do you even READ what you post ?

Better read this - it will help you to understand fighting against Injustice AKA Community rules -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States

[FolkGuitar]

24 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

So fighting against Injustice is not allowed ? Because of Community Rules ?

All the Union Busting in the past, where companies hired Goons with shotguns to shoot protesters, while the Police looked on and did nothing ?

Do you even READ what you post ?

Better read this - it will help you to understand fighting against Injustice AKA Community rules -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States

 

We aren't discussing Union Busting, nor are we talking about behavior in the United States by its citizens.

We're talking about Thailand, and the behavior of guests who have been permitted to live within its borders.

 

Please... by all means, I'd love to see you march up the steps of the Imperial Palace demanding that your personal rights be permitted instead of Thai Law.  If you need plane fare to go do this, let me know. I'm sure I'd be able to find many contributors happy to see you kicked out of the Kingdom, because sure as hell that's what would happen... perhaps with some jail-time first.

 

Responsible people don't go into other people's houses and sh!t on the living room rug, while babbling that they have the right to do what ever they want.  Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn't fighting injustice, it's adolescence.

[canthai55]

So ... no answer to my statement about fighting against "Community Rules" eh ?

You seem to think that if YOU are scared, all the rest of the population should do what you feel is proper so that you feel safe ?

Never mind about trampling on basic rights, just wear a useless paper mask and it is OK ?

Under My Thumb comes to mind.

'Your Silence gives Consent" - Plato

Edited May 7, 2020 by canthai55

[FolkGuitar]

43 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

You seem to think that if YOU are scared, all the rest of the population should do what you feel is proper so that you feel safe ?

 

 

This seems to be the common refrain from the three of you insisting on your rights.

No matter how many times you are told that the issue isn't fear, as you seem to think, but a feeling of responsibility to the people around us, a feeling you don't seem to share. You continue to ignore the fact that these rules were not put in place because of fear. They were put in place to try to reduce the rate of contagion from the disease. But you can't internalize that because that would require you understand the feeling of caring about others. You don't. You only care about yourself, and that you don't want to wear a mask.

 

We are out and about, doing our daily business, not cowering away in our homes. But we are doing it responsibly, i.e. we are wearing masks to help protect the people around us.

Do you think Rimping, Tops, Kad Suen Kaew, local pharmacies, ect., are forcing mandatory wearing of masks inside because they are afraid their employees will get sick? Their employees are all wearing masks and plastic face shields. They are safe. But the people walking around, if not wearing masks, stand the risk of infecting others. And THAT is why we wear masks... Not to keep ourselves safe. We KNOW the mask probably isn't enough protection for that. But it IS enough to HELP prevent infecting others. We care about others. You obviously do not.

 

Never mind about trampling on basic rights, just wear a useless paper mask and it is OK ?

 

Thinking that your 'basic rights' outweighs the health and safety of your neighbors isn't really about rights. That's just 'entitlement.'

My 10th grade teacher explained it to us this way;

"Your freedom to swing your arms ends when your hands hit my face."

You do not have the right to hit others in the face.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn't freedom, it's adolescence.

 

You want to quote Plato... Let me paraphrase Thoreau;

You don't march to the beat of a different drum. You are just sadly out of step...

 

[Logosone]

27 minutes ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

This seems to be the common refrain from the three of you insisting on your rights.

No matter how many times you are told that the issue isn't fear, as you seem to think, but a feeling of responsibility to the people around us, a feeling you don't seem to share. You continue to ignore the fact that these rules were not put in place because of fear. They were put in place to try to reduce the rate of contagion from the disease.

 

Do you think Rimping, Tops, Kad Suen Kaew, local pharmacies, ect., are forcing mandatory wearing of masks inside because they are afraid their employees will get sick? Their employees are all wearing masks and plastic face shields. They are safe.

 

What a load of bull. You're just afraid of the virus, that's all. And trying to dress it up as 'community' concern. You're terrified of the virus. 

 

Neither Rimping nor Tops nor local pharmacies are enforcing mandatory wearing of masks. I've been in all of them without mask, nobody said a thing. Obviously your "community" is a lot more relaxed about the virus than you are, lol.

 

No doubt many Thais understand that wearing masks makes no iota of difference, social distancing is not grounded in proper science and lockdown has produced nothing but economic misery.

 

Keep being afraid, but do it alone.

 

Count me out.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, FolkGuitar said:

 

 

We are out and about, doing our daily business, not cowering away in our homes. But we are doing it responsibly, i.e. we are wearing masks to help protect the people around us.

Do you think Rimping, Tops, Kad Suen Kaew, local pharmacies, ect., are forcing mandatory wearing of masks inside because they are afraid their employees will get sick? Their employees are all wearing masks and plastic face shields. They are safe. But the people walking around, if not wearing masks, stand the risk of infecting others. And THAT is why we wear masks... Not to keep ourselves safe. We KNOW the mask probably isn't enough protection for that. But it IS enough to HELP prevent infecting others. We care about others. You obviously do not.

 

 

I agree that the mask is used to protect others if you are infected. Just a few days ago, I saw  one Thai ice-cream seller sitting on a communal table and sneezing out loud a few times but he was not wearing a mask.

 

That's probably how the virus managed to spread so fast 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by EricTh

[canthai55]

2 hours ago, FolkGuitar said:

But you can't internalize that because that would require you understand the feeling of caring about others. You don't. You only care about yourself, and that you don't want to wear a mask.

You do not know me. You have no idea of anything about me.

I DO wear a mask.

But I refuse to sit idly by and not speak out when I see a travesty of mythical proportions.

Keep on with that 'feel good' that you place so highly.

 

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

You do not know me. You have no idea of anything about me.

I DO wear a mask.

But I refuse to sit idly by and not speak out when I see a travesty of mythical proportions.

Keep on with that 'feel good' that you place so highly.

 

New study from British University states wearing masks and lockdowns worthless.

They have no effect on the spread of the virus.

[EricTh]

9 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

New study from British University states wearing masks and lockdowns worthless.

They have no effect on the spread of the virus.

I would rather compare those countries whose people do wear masks versus those who don't than some 'new study from xx uni'.

 

The total number of cases in each country speak for themselves. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

Those countries who do wear masks are Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar, Korea, China (after a difficult start) etc.

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by EricTh

[Rimmer]

Multiple troll baiting bickering and personal attacks have been removed also replies, keep this up if you really want a week off

[canthai55]

21 minutes ago, EricTh said:

The total number of cases in each country speak for themselves. 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

So 6.9%

But this figure is largely meaningless without more data, such as, but not limited to ...

Age

Health - any pre existing conditions

Access to health care - poor people just can not get help

To just blast out figures like the study above - in essence - tells us nothing

Be interesting to see how many young, healthy people have died.

I would hazard - if any at all - not many

[canthai55]

The World Health Organization estimates that worldwide, annual influenza epidemics result in about 3-5 million cases of severe illness and about 250,000 to 500,000 deaths

So ... 8.3 - 10 %

Criteria missing applies to this well

https://www.medscape.com/answers/219557-3459/what-is-the-global-incidence-of-influenza

And the Winner is ...

Edited May 8, 2020 by canthai55

[LomSak27]

10 hours ago, Logosone said:

Neither Rimping nor Tops nor local pharmacies are enforcing mandatory wearing of masks. I've been in all of them without mask, nobody said a thing. Obviously your "community" is a lot more relaxed about the virus than you are, lol.

 

Tops and Rimping are most certainly enforcing the wearing of facemasks. Deliberate lying just trashes the credibility of your post/argument. BTW the OP has a bad habit about doing that also. ????

Edited May 8, 2020 by LomSak27

[Trujillo]

"That's probably how the virus managed to spread so fast ...."

 

The virus has not spread fast here.

And in more than 3.5 months, there have been only 55 deaths and fewer than 3,000 cases. In a population of nearly 70 million, these numbers are very low.

Tomorrow will be one month in Chiang Mai Province (1.74 million people) with NO NEW CASES. 

 

"BTW the OP has a bad habit about doing that (lying) also. "

 

Sorry, where did you feel I was "lying"?

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Trujillo

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"That's probably how the virus managed to spread so fast ...."

 

The virus has not spread fast here.

And in more than 3.5 months, there have been only 55 deaths and fewer than 3,000 cases. In a population of nearly 70 million, these numbers are very low.

Tomorrow will be one month in Chiang Mai Province (1.74 million people) with NO NEW CASES. 

It'd be interesting to choose a CM moobaan, test everyone and read the results.

I'm betting 50% would test as having or had it.

 

But of course, when you test nobody, nobody has it.

And could you even believe Thai test results (due to incompetence and/or political influence).

Edited May 8, 2020 by BritManToo

[LomSak27]

10 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

"BTW the OP has a bad habit about doing that (lying) also. "

 

Sorry, where did you feel I was "lying"?

 

 

Relax, it is from an old Wuhan Virus thread, not this one. And I'm sure you can say ...  you just got confused about the info. heh. The days do flow together, but it's friday. That means I am getting Pastrami Reuben & Fries take away, when I do my Rimping shopping. Yes focaccia, not rye, but hey we're in Thailand.

 

Have a good weekend. Aloha

Edited May 8, 2020 by LomSak27

[Trujillo]

"It'd be interesting to choose a CM moobaan, test everyone and read the results.

I'm betting 50% would test as having or had it."

 

That would be good news, and even better for certain people who are terrified that everyone is INFECTED!

 

My understanding is that when someone is sick with symptoms here and they go to a hospital for help, they are tested; so yes, there is no program that I am aware of that does blind "immunity" tests here. 

 

You may well be correct, although 50 percent might be high. Still, if so, it means that we are within a week or so of achieving herd immunity, which may be of benefit. 

 

(What Wuhan virus thread do you accuse me of lying in? I'm not in that habit and since you have publicly called me out, I'd like to see what you have. You do have something, right?)

Edited May 8, 2020 by Trujillo

[canthai55]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

It'd be interesting to choose a CM moobaan, test everyone and read the results.

I'm betting 50% would test as having or had it.

I think that could well be the same for any neighborhood on the planet.

Many many people get it, and either have no symptoms or just feel like they have a cold or the 'Flu' for a day or two, then over.

U still in Siem Reap ? How are the stats in Khmer country ?

Or same same as Thailand - as you posted above - test no one and the result is zero

[Logosone]

3 hours ago, LomSak27 said:

 

Tops and Rimping are most certainly enforcing the wearing of facemasks. Deliberate lying just trashes the credibility of your post/argument. BTW the OP has a bad habit about doing that also. ????

Absolutely not. Go to Rimping in Meechok, all there is is a friendly lady that kindly washes and disinfects the trolley for you then gives it to you. Yes she also checked the temperature but she had no comment on me not wearing a mask.

 

Give it try, go there without a mask. You'll see not a problem at all. I was also in a pharmacy, no mask, and in Tops, no face mask required at all. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Logosone

[LomSak27]

Just now, Logosone said:

 

Give it try, go there without a mask. You'll see not a problem at all. I was also in a pharmacy, no mask, and in Tops, no face mask required at all. 

Back from Rimping Ping Branch shopping, (& D.'s Reuben pick up.) I have not seen a maskless shopper there since late march. Add to that Makro Hang Dong, Tops KSG, Rimping Nims, and whatever is at central festival GF. I was Booze shopping there last sunday. I should state, I shop like a guy, which BTW I am. I go in, I locate, I buy, I get out. I am not there to socialize, be seen, compare prices or engage in local rituals of status and dominance. 

 

 - Not That There Is Anything Wrong With That -   

 

I do not check regulations for mask wearing. However I did witness an altercation back in early April, Rimping Nims, a farang was prevented from entering because no mask. Yep they stopped him. And I have seen NO ONE, not wearing a mask,  in all the above markets, for the last ? six weeks. 

 

Have a Happy Weekend.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[deej]

Had a yummy Pork Hamburger and Fries  today  at Steak of the Day .Maerim Plaza Maerim

Whilst entering  staff  washes and  disinfect my hands had a temp check and also gave my name and cell phone number which was noted in

their register  book  no big deal  as i.m very community minded. despite what one particular member, wowser.s on about

no asking for face masks to be worn .and say at  a calculated guess  it was 50/50 who worn one .and who did not .up to you

Lovely lunch at Steak of the Day Maerim Plaza????

[Trujillo]

Meechok Plaza has signs in various places asking you to wear a mask. As noted above, everyone wears some kind of mask; if you are not, they are probably just so taken aback and not really thinking that anyone would challenge this that they just let you sleepwalk through. 

Just because you can (for now) get away with that, someone will catch up with you at some point. I don't like it any more than you do, but when in Rome, etc....

(And there is at least one ThaiVisa member who would probably verbally accost and shame you for doing that, so if that happens, I just hope I'm there to see it.)

 

Obviously, when you are stuffing food in your pie hole, you take off your mask. 

 

 

"Whilst entering  staff  washes and  disinfect my hands had a temp check and also gave my name and cell phone number which was noted in their register book..."

 

I don't like that at all. 

What else? DNA? Blood sample? Fingerprints? Retinal scan (just in case your laptop needs it to gain access.)? 

Signing up for the One Card is bad enough, as it's nothing more than a voluntary ad generating and tracking app, but just to go into a shop no one should submit to such invasive treatment. 

IF this was for a good reason, I might be more sympathetic, but at this stage of the game, having your contact details is pointless. What is the point for a restaurant to get private details? 

So are you willing to download a real-time tracking app on your phone? Just so anyone in the government can "keep you and others safe"? I assume they can turn on your camera without your knowledge...how'd you like them apples? 

[deej]

10 hours ago, Trujillo said:

 

 

 

"Whilst entering  staff  washes and  disinfect my hands had a temp check and also gave my name and cell phone number which was noted in their register book..."

 

I don't like that at all. 

What else? DNA? Blood sample? Fingerprints? Retinal scan (just in case your laptop needs it to gain access.)? 

Signing up for the One Card is bad enough, as it's nothing more than a voluntary ad generating and tracking app, but just to go into a shop no one should submit to such invasive treatment. 

IF this was for a good reason, I might be more sympathetic, but at this stage of the game, having your contact details is pointless. What is the point for a restaurant to get private details? 

 

The very good reason is that lets say  if  a Covid 19 infected customer dines  at Steak of the Day Maerim Plaza and at later date his/her condition worsens the hospital authoritys will ask  his/her travels of previous days etc etc

Up comes Steak of the Day upon inspection  the authoritys have at first hand a list (the register )of diners who  were eating with the infected Covid 19 then could contact all.  on their well being  ETC ETC in a very short space of time and perhaps stop Covid 19 from spreading to others

The owners of Steak of the Day are very highly respected  Thai couple in Cmai hospitality industry

and in my view are doing the right thing with the above procedure  which may save a diner.s life

In my case yday i was doing the right thing for the community and the owners of Steak of the Day too

just my view

 

[canthai55]

If people allow tracking apps as described above, Kiss Freedom Goodbye.

Track you because it MIGHT help ... !!! And who gets this data ?

But this may very well be the end purpose of the whole C-19 debacle.

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

If people allow tracking apps as described above, Kiss Freedom Goodbye.

Track you because it MIGHT help ... !!! And who gets this data ?

But this may very well be the end purpose of the whole C-19 debacle.

Aus government released a covid tracking APP, lots complaining on Face book saying how it will be used  to collect data and then used for evil purposes.

 

The irony.

 

Hahahahahahaha how quickly people forget the Cambridge Analytica scandal and keep on posting what they had for dinner/how big their last turd was/they got a new puppy  etc etc etc !!

[Dante99]

12 hours ago, Trujillo said:

 

 

 

"Whilst entering  staff  washes and  disinfect my hands had a temp check and also gave my name and cell phone number which was noted in their register book..."

 

I don't like that at all. 

What else? DNA? Blood sample? Fingerprints? Retinal scan (just in case your laptop needs it to gain access.)? 

Signing up for the One Card is bad enough, as it's nothing more than a voluntary ad generating and tracking app, but just to go into a shop no one should submit to such invasive treatment. 

IF this was for a good reason, I might be more sympathetic, but at this stage of the game, having your contact details is pointless. What is the point for a restaurant to get private details? 

So are you willing to download a real-time tracking app on your phone? Just so anyone in the government can "keep you and others safe"? I assume they can turn on your camera without your knowledge...how'd you like them apples? 

Sad, sad, sad.

 

You want to rant so bad.

 

Nothing prevents one from giving some off the wall name and phone number, nothing says it has to be your real one.  You think there is somebody with a gun confirming name and number so you have to rant.

 

What joy you must have complaining about things you do not have to do.

[Trujillo]

Dante99 will trade giving personal information for lying. 

I'd prefer not to do either, thanks. 

[Dante99]

21 minutes ago, Trujillo said:

Dante99 will trade giving personal information for lying. 

I'd prefer not to do either, thanks. 

Nothing about trading.  Giving personal information to anybody who asks for it is truly stupid.  Giving it when not necessary is inviting trouble.

 

Our number one Boy Scout Trujillo has never told a lie? Ho ho ho.