Felling of British slave trader statue heats up simmering debate

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Do you understand that mob rule, mob violence, taking the law as they see it into their own hands, are completely against democracy?

 

Are you sure you understand the feelings and motivations of those who did so? Do you know them? Were they all good citizens outraged at someone's death thousands of miles away? Or might they have been political activists following their own agendas? Whichever, they must be identified and prosecuted.

They pulled down a statue, no one is manning the barricades and calling for revolution. 

 

 

Yes I do understand their motivations. 

Edited June 9, 2020 by Bluespunk

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

its a somewhat complicated history but in the pics we see students who are not bristolians bossing the agenda.also the mayor is of jamaican background living in the UK,he may be somewhat offended but if the trade had not happened he would be back in west africa and yes good luck with that!theres no mention of the fact the african slave trade has a long history.arabs were the first and last on that ,parts of nigeria were an arab caliphate until britain invaded to expel them and the slave trade.they had other reasons too for sure but they did that.dublin was the biggest slave mkt in europe,no black slaves only white and run by vikings,rome egypt greece and so on ,enlightened empires the persian too.in modern times the damascus slave mkt the largest in the world run in ottoman times,it contained many black and white slaves,the janissaries were chldren taken young from subject races[many greeks] as a tax and the girls well in modern parlance sex slaves or bought for the harems of rich arabs,mostly from southern russia where the women are still known for their beauty ,that ended when britain and france defeated and collapsed that empire in ww1.its part of the human condition,it carries on to some extent today in africa and asia,lets not forget africans held slaves .the ashanti were a slave holding empire and they firstly sold slaves to the portugese,it was tribal chiefs that sold their people onto arab slavers until very recent times.dr livingstone died trying to stop that trade.its our history,britain was the power that collapsed the atlantic slave trade 1809.etc.but we must understand history and deal with it,what is not acceptable in liberal west was less than a 100 yrs ago de rigeur in many parts of the world.slavery was part of trade world wide at that time,sarawak , to the slavers of the muslim southern philippines.close indeed it was rajah brooke ended that.everyone was not middle class undereducated and rich in those days!!as is the case today,we dont see these students rallying outside the saudi embassy where slavery was on the statute book till 1960!!or the feminists outside the indian and pakistani embassies,we see self importance virtue signalling and massive massive hypocrisy in the west and the brits as opinionated judgemental know it alls do it better than anyone.

Thanks. Although this does not excuse the behaviour of the Europeans (and some Africans), this point is very relevant for a true perspective. The Arabian slave trade took millions of Africans from east (and west) Africa, as well as some Europeans and Asians too, over a far longer time span and involving at least double the numbers of those sent to the Americas and The Caribbean.

 

There seem not any descendants of Arab slavery in the Middle East, now, to protest against those countries? I wonder why that is?     

Edited June 9, 2020 by nauseus

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

If I ever see a Deigo Maradonna statue , I am going to knock it down on account of him being  cheat

 

A cheat, a blasphemer and a druggie!

 

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Thanks. Although this does not excuse the behaviour of the Europeans (and some Africans), this point is very relevant for a true perspective. The Arabian slave trade took millions of Africans from east (and west) Africa, as well as some Europeans and Asians too, over a far longer time span and involving at least double the numbers of those sent to the Americas and The Caribbean.

 

There seem not any descendants of Arab slavery in the Middle East, now, to protest against those countries are there? I wonder why that is?     

 

Modern day slavery - research the experiences of Filipinas, Indonesian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, and African maids and servants in KSA, UAE, kuwait etc etc.

 

Interesting reading.

 

Don't see any Western based students protesting that. Or any Labour Party politicians jumping up and down.

[Baerboxer]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

They pulled down a statue, no one is manning the barricades and calling for revolution. 

 

 

Yes I do understand their motivations. 

 

So, they choose to commit criminal damage. For their own reasons. For which they should face the consequences. No one, absolutely no one, can be above the law in a democracy. And the law cannot be applied selectively.

 

So do you know all of those involved in pulling down the statue personally? Or just assuming you know the motivations?

[tribalfusion001]

Why not have statues of people like John Lennon, David Bowie, etc to replace the old historical figures.

 

[MRToMRT]

19 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Trying to burn the Union Jack at the Cenotaph today ^

I saw that as well, disgusting.

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, MRToMRT said:

I saw that as well, disgusting.

He couldn't get his lighter to work properly.

[ravip]

6 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Why not have statues of people like John Lennon, David Bowie, etc to replace the old historical figures.

 

Why have statues of anyone, for that matter.

[tribalfusion001]

6 minutes ago, ravip said:

Why have statues of anyone, for that matter.

I agree, they are pointless. I would prefer something modern in their place, give the spaces to modern artists to showcase their sculptures. It could be linked to the Turner prize.

 

He is up next today at 5pm.

Edited June 9, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, ravip said:

Why have statues of anyone, for that matter.

Why not start a campaign to get rid of them if you feel that strongly about them, I know, you could call it 'statutes about statues'

[RuamRudy]

4 hours ago, rvaviator said:

Well I think we have to agree to disagree on this one then ... ???? 

 

Please note that I did not say we should make a hero out of him (I have little time for heroes as I struggle with that concept. But that is a different discussion)

 

We should respect our past - and if anything - his monument should make us reflect on what happened then which was part of the foundation that build the UK. By remembering the past we can build a better future by trying not to repeat errors of the past.

 

 

But it seems that there was no reflection. An innocent passer-by might have assumed that the man led a faultless, utterly benevolent life. If context had been provided before now, maybe we would not have seen the action that took place.

[ravip]

Just now, vogie said:

Why not start a campaign to get rid of them if you feel that strongly about them, I know, you could call it 'statutes about statues'

What made you feel that felt that strongly?

You have a statue of yourself?

[CorpusChristie]

10 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

He couldn't get his lighter to work properly.

The flag would have been flame retarded ..........flame retardant............... errmmmm the flag would have been fireproof

[evadgib]

55 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

TR and his thugs will poo themselves confronted by some of them urban boys. He is a hypocrite anyway saying the police got hurt, when his march last year had the same thing happen.

 

Rip all of the statues down, put some modern sculptures up, it's the 21st century. That's the problem with the UK too stuck in the past.

TR and his thugs weren't exactly who I had in mind.

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The flag would have been flame retarded ..........flame retardant............... errmmmm the flag would have been fireproof

A retarded flag...

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, ravip said:

What made you feel that felt that strongly?

You have a statue of yourself?

You are questioning why we have statues, maybe we should be questioning why people are breaking the law and trivialising wanton destruction.

As to your question if I have a statue of myself.........I have several. HTH

Edited June 9, 2020 by vogie

[tribalfusion001]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

TR and his thugs weren't exactly who I had in mind.

Enlighten me, who are you thinking of?

[ravip]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

You are questioning why we have statues, maybe we should be questioning why people are breaking the law and trivialise wanton destruction.

As to your question if I have a statue of myself.........I have several. HTH

Wanton destruction of a statue is nothing. How do you feel about the wanton destruction of entire Nations?

 

Edit

People are following the leaders example. LOL LOL

Edited June 9, 2020 by ravip

[tribalfusion001]

Another development this morning https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/09/sadiq-khan-orders-review-of-all-london-statues-for-slavery-links

[ravip]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Another development this morning https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/09/sadiq-khan-orders-review-of-all-london-statues-for-slavery-links

All statues in London will be examined with a view to removing those with links to slavery and plantation owners, Sadiq Khan has said.

 

Something is happening... An alien had to do the correction?

 

Edited June 9, 2020 by ravip

[CorpusChristie]

14 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

I agree, they are pointless. I would prefer something modern in their place, give the spaces to modern artists to showcase their sculptures. It could be linked to the Turner prize.

 

He is up next today at 5pm.

The Ant Theethers are re-arranging the UK , could well be social disorder

[ravip]

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

The Ant Theethers are re-arranging the UK , could well be social disorder

Inevitable... the Ant Theethers had to come to put things in order...

[vogie]

Just now, ravip said:

Wanton destruction of a statue is nothing. How do you feel about the wanton destruction of entire Nations?

Deflection, this topic is about the statue in Bristol that was pulled down by wanabee anarchists, that is not the way that we act in a civilised society. Breaking the law will never be acceptable in the UK. I just hope the police have learned their lesson and what a bunch of useless defenders of the peace they have become. The softly softly approach has failed miserably, now is the time to come down hard on these toss pots.

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, ravip said:

All statues in London will be examined with a view to removing those with links to slavery and plantation owners, Sadiq Khan has said.

 

Something is happening...

 

Of course it is under the guise of the pandemic and social distancing.

 

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The Ant Theethers are re-arranging the UK , could well be social disorder

No, they just winge on social media and share fake news. Most of the population are still scared of the virus to protest.

Edited June 9, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[from the home of CC]

20 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

He built many of the schools and hospitals and things in Bristol and helped to develop the place

Yeah and Pablo Escobar built schools and football fields for Colombians , what's your point?

[ravip]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Deflection, this topic is about the statue in Bristol that was pulled down by wanabee anarchists, that is not the way that we act in a civilised society. Breaking the law will never be acceptable in the UK. I just hope the police have learned their lesson and what a bunch of useless defenders of the peace they have become. The softly softly approach has failed miserably, now is the time to come down hard on these toss pots.

Absolutely! I agree. The iron fist method works and helps the 'humanitarian' brigade too... the way to go...

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Another development this morning https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/09/sadiq-khan-orders-review-of-all-london-statues-for-slavery-links

That seems rather hypocritical to me but what do I know? 

[brianthainess]

20 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Trying to burn the Union Jack at the Cenotaph today ^

so what?

[puipuitom]

Are they also going to demolish the statues of the Ashanti, Felu, Congo kings, as without them,.,. there would have been no slave trade at all towards the West. And towards the East = the Arab world, much longer existed on a much bigger scale, I hear nothing. Maybe because demonstrations there are not so liked, and.,. any reparation payments... forget it...