Biden says military would help oust Trump if he loses election but refuses to leave

[jimmybcool]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

So the fact that there is no demonstrated need for voter ID"s and the fact that states are making it difficult to impossible for some people, mostly the old and poor, to obtain them doesn't bother you?

 

Right, we'll just put you down as another big government enthusiast who likes rules and bureaucracy that serve no purpose.

And those same racist states are preventing those poor people from exercising their right to own a firearm too.  racist I tell you.  We really need to remove the requirement to show ID to buy a gun.  Should be cash and carry just like voting.  

[johnpetersen]

34 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

And those same racist states are preventing those poor people from exercising their right to own a firearm too.  racist I tell you.  We really need to remove the requirement to show ID to buy a gun.  Should be cash and carry just like voting.  

As heybruce pointed out, voter ID serves no useful purpose. Gun license ID does.

[Crazy Alex]

4 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

As heybruce pointed out, voter ID serves no useful purpose. Gun license ID does.

Obviously, voter ID serves a useful purpose. Your continued denial of it does not change reality one iota. Don't you care about election security?

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Obviously, voter ID serves a useful purpose. Your continued denial of it does not change reality one iota. Don't you care about election security?

After every argument for voter ID has been discredited, you circle back to the original discredited argument.

 

There are no election security problems that voter ID's will solve.  Prove that wrong.

 

But we get it; you love big, all-controlling government.  You love unnecessary rules and bureaucracy.  You won't abandon that love.

[jimmybcool]

7 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

As heybruce pointed out, voter ID serves no useful purpose. Gun license ID does.

A right is a right.  You, and he apparently, are OK that the poor people who can't get ID (per heybruce) are already being denied their right to own firearms.  Seems like gun rights suppression on a blatant scale.  It matters not what you or he believe regarding purpose served or not.  Purpose served is in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by jimmybcool

[Crazy Alex]

10 minutes ago, heybruce said:

After every argument for voter ID has been discredited, you circle back to the original discredited argument.

 

There are no election security problems that voter ID's will solve.  Prove that wrong.

 

But we get it; you love big, all-controlling government.  You love unnecessary rules and bureaucracy.  You won't abandon that love.

When do you plan on doing some discrediting?

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

They know that wearing masks greatly reduces transmission of the virus,

In your and some scientists opinion. Not in the opinion of the New Zealand government and people. Many/ most did not wear them and little infection with only 22 deaths of old people with underlying health problems.

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

In your and some scientists opinion. Not in the opinion of the New Zealand government and people. Many/ most did not wear them and little infection with only 22 deaths of old people with underlying health problems.

The mask is about submitting to government. Leftists are all for anything that conditions people to submit. That's why we see them pushing the mask, people getting on their knees to black people, washing feet, etc. They will rarely support anything that promotes people standing up for their individual rights, freedom and independence from government and/or submission to other groups.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/29/2020 at 5:32 AM, heybruce said:

As I predicted, you don't see the difference. 

 

There is a legitimate need to identify people who purchase guns.  That isn't a problem for gun purchasers because many forms of ID are accepted.

 

There is no demonstrated need to require voters to obtain an ID that meets state imposed criteria.  The criteria are impossible to meet for some voters.  In absence of the need and in view of the difficulty for some in obtaining the ID, it is clear that voter ID laws are suppressing the vote.

 

Reasonable limits are imposed on rights when they are abused.  That's why freedom of speech doesn't include the freedom to provoke violence or yell "Fire" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. 

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

[johnpetersen]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In your and some scientists opinion. Not in the opinion of the New Zealand government and people. Many/ most did not wear them and little infection with only 22 deaths of old people with underlying health problems.

There are several reasons New Zealand did so well apart from its being an island nation: 

1)It closed its borders early when there were only 100 cases and no deaths

2)It made the general population self quarantine for 14 days. And it did so early.

3)It imposed a very strict lockdown early and made it last over a month

4)The national government communicated directly with the people. And there were no ridiculous mixed messages of the kind bruited about by President Trump and his followers.

5)The government started testing early

 

"New Zealand's government was following the best guidelines for dealing with a new virus."

"The cornerstone of a pandemic response for every country must be to find, test, isolate, and care for every case, and to trace and quarantine every contact," says Pyzik."

"That is every country's best defense against COVID-19 and it is how New Zealand succeeded in overcoming COVID-19."

https://www.dw.com/en/jacinda-ardern-leadership-in-coronavirus-response/a-53733397

Unfortunately, "early" is not an option for the USA anymore.

[thaibeachlovers]

20 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

There are several reasons New Zealand did so well apart from its being an island nation: 

1)It closed its borders early when there were only 100 cases and no deaths

2)It made the general population self quarantine for 14 days. And it did so early.

3)It imposed a very strict lockdown early and made it last over a month

4)The national government communicated directly with the people. And there were no ridiculous mixed messages of the kind bruited about by President Trump and his followers.

5)The government started testing early

 

"New Zealand's government was following the best guidelines for dealing with a new virus."

"The cornerstone of a pandemic response for every country must be to find, test, isolate, and care for every case, and to trace and quarantine every contact," says Pyzik."

"That is every country's best defense against COVID-19 and it is how New Zealand succeeded in overcoming COVID-19."

https://www.dw.com/en/jacinda-ardern-leadership-in-coronavirus-response/a-53733397

Unfortunately, "early" is not an option for the USA anymore.

Are you in NZ?

 

Dreaming. They didn't even test people leaving quarantine.

Didn't close the borders early.

Allowed "certain" people to not lock down when they should have. Allowed protestors to mingle when they should have been told to go home.

Allowed people from California to enter and mingle with others in an hotel.

That communicated directly with the people. was a joke.

 

However keep listening to the propaganda if it makes you happy.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[johnpetersen]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

When do you plan on doing some discrediting?

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

Remember Kris Kobach? The person who actually ran the President Trump's commission on election integrity? The guy who has spearheaded claims that there is widespread voter fraud in the USA?

How the Case for Voter Fraud Was Tested — and Utterly Failed

Kobach’s strongest evidence of non-citizen registration was anemic at best: Over a 20-year period, fewer than 40 non-citizens had attempted to register in one Kansas county that had 130,000 voters. Most of those 40 improper registrations were the result of mistakes or confusion rather than intentional attempts to mislead, and only five of the 40 managed to cast a vote.

https://www.propublica.org/article/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-kansas-trial

Voter ID wouldn't have done anything to stop even this negligible amount of "fraud" from occurring.

 

 

[johnpetersen]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The mask is about submitting to government. Leftists are all for anything that conditions people to submit. That's why we see them pushing the mask, people getting on their knees to black people, washing feet, etc. They will rarely support anything that promotes people standing up for their individual rights, freedom and independence from government and/or submission to other groups.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

Widespread voter fraud not a problem in Ohio

Former Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted, now the Republican lieutenant governor, conducted investigations that concluded voter fraud happens, but not in large numbers.

In fact, it was practically microscopic compared with voter turnout. In 2012, 2014 and 2016, Husted found 820 “voting irregularities” and referred 336 cases for prosecution. Voters cast nearly 14.4 million ballots in those elections.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/06/01/voter-fraud-not-problem-ohio/5305611002/

 

 

 

[johnpetersen]

6 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Obviously, voter ID serves a useful purpose. Your continued denial of it does not change reality one iota. Don't you care about election security?

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

Nine people may have double-voted in Iowa's 2018 election, Secretary of State says

Iowa Secretary of State Paul Pate announced nine voters allegedly voted twice in the 2018 election and have been referred to county attorneys. 

The voters — four of whom are in Polk County — are suspected of casting a ballot in Iowa after they had already voted in another state. There are also 27 suspected voters who cast ballots first in Iowa and then again in another state in the 2018 election, according to a news release.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/27/iowa-double-voting-election-fraud-2018-midterms-secretary-of-state-misconduct-felony-paul-pate-state/2756753001/

[johnpetersen]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

When do you plan on doing some discrediting?

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.

In a letter to Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who are both Republicans and led the commission, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said the documents show there was a “pre-ordained outcome” and that drafts of a commission report included a section on evidence of voter fraud that was “glaringly empty.”

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

When do you plan on doing some discrediting?

When do you plan to provide a credible risk of election fraud? 

 

Something based on evidence, not your imagination.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are tieing yourself in knots trying to defend your , IMO, indefensible position on voter ID. ID needed to buy alcoholic drinks, but not for voting- just doesn't pass the smell test.

Another poster who wants more big government and bureaucracy to prevent a non-existent problem.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

 

Nine people may have double-voted in Iowa's 2018 election, Secretary of State says

Iowa Secretary of State Paul Pate announced nine voters allegedly voted twice in the 2018 election and have been referred to county attorneys. 

The voters — four of whom are in Polk County — are suspected of casting a ballot in Iowa after they had already voted in another state. There are also 27 suspected voters who cast ballots first in Iowa and then again in another state in the 2018 election, according to a news release.

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/27/iowa-double-voting-election-fraud-2018-midterms-secretary-of-state-misconduct-felony-paul-pate-state/2756753001/

How much do you want to bet that most of these double voters are affluent people who have residences on two or more states?  They could easily register to vote using addresses for every residence. 

 

Of course Republicans aren't worried about affluent people casting multiple ballots.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In your and some scientists opinion. Not in the opinion of the New Zealand government and people. Many/ most did not wear them and little infection with only 22 deaths of old people with underlying health problems.

You rely on dubious conclusions based on one geographically isolated country.  I'll go with the science.

 

"Can face masks help prevent the spread of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus."  https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

"Researchers have found that wearing surgical masks can significantly reduce the rate of airborne COVID-19 transmission, according to a study released on Sunday."

"The study, conducted by a team of scientists in Hong Kong, found the rate of non-contact transmission through respiratory droplets or airborne particles dropped by as much as 75 percent when masks were used."   https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows

 

"The study looked at three measures separately: face masks, social distancing and eye protection."

"To start, it found that, without a mask, social distancing or any other preventive measures, the risk of transmitting the coronavirus is 17.4%. Add a mask or respirator, and that number drops to 3.1%."  https://www.today.com/health/do-face-masks-work-against-coronavirus-study-finds-masks-social-t183018

 

"Several new studies published this month support wearing masks to curb the transmission of the novel coronavirus. The broadest, a review funded by the World Health Organization and published in the journal Lancet, concluded that data from 172 observational studies indicate wearing face masks reduces the risk of coronavirus infection."

 

 

"“Our findings suggest, in multiple ways, that the use of masks is highly protective in health-care and community settings,” said the author of the review, Holger Schünemann, an epidemiologist and physician at McMaster University in Ontario."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/13/spate-new-research-supports-wearing-masks-control-coronavirus-spread/

 

As I explained in an earlier post, you can wear a mask, reduce the transmission of Covid 19, and improve Trump's chances of re-election.  Or you can not wear a mask, help increase transmission and reduce Trump's re-election prospects, but look like a true Trump supporter. 

 

You'll go with appearances over logic and science, won't you?

[bendejo]

If they are truly looking to do away with voter fraud they can start with this family of no-goods.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-cabinet-family-voter-registration.html

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

 

Report: Trump commission did not find widespread voter fraud

The now-disbanded voting integrity commission launched by the Trump administration uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud, according to an analysis of administration documents released Friday.

In a letter to Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who are both Republicans and led the commission, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said the documents show there was a “pre-ordained outcome” and that drafts of a commission report included a section on evidence of voter fraud that was “glaringly empty.”

https://apnews.com/f5f6a73b2af546ee97816bb35e82c18d/Report:-Trump-commission-did-not-find-widespread-voter-fraud

uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud,

does not mean no voter fraud. Is it your contention that voter fraud is OK as long as not "widespread"?

 

Anyway, this is nothing to do with the OP so that's my last on this deflection.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, heybruce said:

You rely on dubious conclusions based on one geographically isolated country.  I'll go with the science.

 

"Can face masks help prevent the spread of the coronavirus that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus."  https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

 

"Researchers have found that wearing surgical masks can significantly reduce the rate of airborne COVID-19 transmission, according to a study released on Sunday."

"The study, conducted by a team of scientists in Hong Kong, found the rate of non-contact transmission through respiratory droplets or airborne particles dropped by as much as 75 percent when masks were used."   https://www.foxnews.com/health/wearing-face-mask-reduce-coronavirus-transmission-75-percent-study-shows

 

"The study looked at three measures separately: face masks, social distancing and eye protection."

"To start, it found that, without a mask, social distancing or any other preventive measures, the risk of transmitting the coronavirus is 17.4%. Add a mask or respirator, and that number drops to 3.1%."  https://www.today.com/health/do-face-masks-work-against-coronavirus-study-finds-masks-social-t183018

 

"Several new studies published this month support wearing masks to curb the transmission of the novel coronavirus. The broadest, a review funded by the World Health Organization and published in the journal Lancet, concluded that data from 172 observational studies indicate wearing face masks reduces the risk of coronavirus infection."

 

 

"“Our findings suggest, in multiple ways, that the use of masks is highly protective in health-care and community settings,” said the author of the review, Holger Schünemann, an epidemiologist and physician at McMaster University in Ontario."   https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/13/spate-new-research-supports-wearing-masks-control-coronavirus-spread/

 

As I explained in an earlier post, you can wear a mask, reduce the transmission of Covid 19, and improve Trump's chances of re-election.  Or you can not wear a mask, help increase transmission and reduce Trump's re-election prospects, but look like a true Trump supporter. 

 

You'll go with appearances over logic and science, won't you?

That's the opinion of one group of scientists over another, so I'm going with the NZ scientists.

 

Anyway, this is better dealt with on the proper sub forum and is off topic so my last on this deflection.

[mike787]

NOT going to happen, TRUMP is powerful and the best thing ever to happen.  Accept it.

[Tug]

16 minutes ago, mike787 said:

NOT going to happen, TRUMP is powerful and the best thing ever to happen.  Accept it.

Have you been paying attention to the news?not only has trump invited foreign interference in our elections a hostile foreign power is paying bounty’s on dead Americans and trump declined to do anything about it wonder why nope trumps lucky the military isent frog marching him down to a basement cell I’ll bet money plenty of them would like to before the election lol but November is rite around the corner

Edited June 30, 2020 by Tug

[candide]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's the opinion of one group of scientists over another, so I'm going with the NZ scientists.

 

Anyway, this is better dealt with on the proper sub forum and is off topic so my last on this deflection.

Where did you read that NZ scientists think that masks are not useful (unless, of course, when there is a low epidemic risk)?

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, candide said:

Where did you read that NZ scientists think that masks are not useful (unless, of course, when there is a low epidemic risk)?

Didn't read it. Heard it from a government spokesperson on the radio. Don't ask me for a link.

She didn't say masks are not useful, she said that someone wearing one was MORE LIKELY to infect themselves from fiddling around with a mask with fingers contaminated with the virus from surfaces they had been touching. Given no one wears goggles that makes sense to me

 

I said before that I was no longer responding to this deflection on this thread so that's really the last time.

[metisdead]

Another post using a trolling reference to POTUS has been removed. 

[johnpetersen]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's the opinion of one group of scientists over another, so I'm going with the NZ scientists.

 

Anyway, this is better dealt with on the proper sub forum and is off topic so my last on this deflection.

And when did NZ scientists make a blanket claim that masks aren't necessary?

[samran]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

uncovered no evidence to support claims of widespread voter fraud,

does not mean no voter fraud. Is it your contention that voter fraud is OK as long as not "widespread"?

 

Anyway, this is nothing to do with the OP so that's my last on this deflection.

Everything is a trade off. 
 

Seems like you are happy with using ID to stamp out a small problem with the consequence of a much larger level of voting disenfranchisement - usually of poorer people. 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's the opinion of one group of scientists over another, so I'm going with the NZ scientists.

 

Anyway, this is better dealt with on the proper sub forum and is off topic so my last on this deflection.

I provided multiple references from scientific studies around the world showing masks reduce the spread of the virus.

 

What NZ scientists support your claim that masks are unnecessary?

Edited July 1, 2020 by heybruce