UK ready to quit EU on 'Australia terms' if no Brexit deal, Johnson says

[IvorBiggun2]

48 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The UK wants the benefits of access to the EU markets without having to comply to EU standards.

What makes the UK any different to Switzerland now that we've left? 

 

 

Quote

Switzerland is neither an EU nor an EEA member. But it has negotiated access to parts of the single market. What's more, it doesn't adopt the EU's social rules. ... For a start, Switzerland has access to only parts of the single market.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by IvorBiggun2

[johnpetersen]

5 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What makes the UK any different to Switzerland now that we've left? 

 

 

 

This:

"From the perspective of the EU, the treaties contain largely the same content as the EEA treaties, making Switzerland a virtual member of the EEA. Most EU law applies universally throughout the EU, the EEA and Switzerland, providing most of the conditions of the free movement of people, goods, services and capital that apply to the member states. Switzerland pays into the EU budget. Switzerland has extended the bilateral treaties to new EU member states; each extension required the approval of Swiss voters in a referendum."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland–European_Union_relations

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

The UK Gov might be able to relegislate the Act but any changes to the WA itself would need to be signed off by the UK and EU. All too difficult now, IMO. The best way (as it has always been) would be for the EU to stop farting about, stop worrying about fish that don't belong to it, finally adopt a truly level playing field and then agree on a trade deal that causes least damage to each side.

 

well I don't agree that its too difficult

it is worth keeping in mind that EU is able to change track very very quickly if the Council so wants

 

BUT:

 

since long the Council agreed a modus op for the Brexit process that requires unam. in the Council

re decision making

and as the years have passed since Cameron's final stunt I think you now can consider that the EU member states

are split in 4 groups really, re Brexit and UK membership that is

- those that can't be bothered and don't care

- those who regret UK's departure 'cause it weakens that political faction

- those who regret UK's departure 'cause it reduces the influx of Euros to the coffers

- those who are overjoyed to see UK urinates off, one troublemaker less, more federalism

 

not a climate that is inviting for innovative political escapades in order to prolong the mess

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Why should I pay more for the golf course than the club members when I could just play golf on the PlayStation? Right, I don’t have to. It’s my decision. 

That is a non comparison.

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

well I don't agree that its too difficult

it is worth keeping in mind that EU is able to change track very very quickly if the Council so wants

 

BUT:

 

since long the Council agreed a modus op for the Brexit process that requires unam. in the Council

re decision making

and as the years have passed since Cameron's final stunt I think you now can consider that the EU member states

are split in 4 groups really, re Brexit and UK membership that is

- those that can't be bothered and don't care

- those who regret UK's departure 'cause it weakens that political faction

- those who regret UK's departure 'cause it reduces the influx of Euros to the coffers

- those who are overjoyed to see UK urinates off, one troublemaker less, more federalism

 

not a climate that is inviting for innovative political escapades in order to prolong the mess

The EU does not habitually do anything quickly. One major reason for that is the splitting of other member states' views, similar to the way you show. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That is a non comparison.

You can ignore the comparison if you don’t like it, and reduce it to the final conclusion: you don’t have to. “up to you”. 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Yes but those trade deals between the EU and other nations involve tariffs on many items.

Why would the EU allow tariff free trade between the UK and itself if the UK was able to undercut the standards imposed on the EU's own businesses? 

 

My point is we cannot pretend the UK is looking for a level playing field. The UK wants the benefits of access to the EU markets without having to comply to EU standards.

If you want in the club you have to adhere to the clubs rules.   

We are already out of the club, no longer a member. In this transition period we are still maintaining some previous commitments to the club funds and trading on the previous terms, while not having a say in their club anymore. That is the level playing field they want to keep, not one that the UK has already left for.

 
The benefits of access to markets is desired by both the UK and the club we have left. However, the EU negotiating position is that to carry on with tariff free trade, we must sign back up to all the conditions that caused us to leave. Well that's not going to happen. There is a massive trade imbalance in the EU's favour that they ignore in they haste to try and trap the UK's trade and contributions back within their grasp. Better we get out No Deal and then think seriously and quickly about individual deals, or the EU gets sensible about it's tariffs and does a proper deal now.

[tebee]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

What makes the UK any different to Switzerland now that we've left? 

 

 

 

OK we could be, but they are part of Schengen, with unlimited movement of people across the border - though goods do not have the same freedoms - there are customs between the EU and them.

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by tebee

[elliss]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:27 PM, 473geo said:

So now we get down it, a handful of expats in Thailand are persistently slating Boris on Tvisa, because he has the audacity to take on the EU fighting for a good deal for the UK, fired up because via the exchange rate Boris has inadvertently cut their disposable income in Thailand. A consequence of little or no concern for the vast majority of the British electorate

 

     You are a expat , living in the UK ? . 

[473geo]

5 minutes ago, elliss said:

 

     You are a expat , living in the UK ? . 

Never an expat, my home and family are in Thailand, I work in the UK, and am British for life.

[david555]

(Seems the patience is finally running out …)????  1 day early finished Brexit talks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/02/brexit-talks-break-up-early-over-serious-disagreements-michel-barnier

EU-UK trade talks break up early over 'serious' disagreements
EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier complained of lack of respect and engagement by UK

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Lisa O'Carroll
Published on 
Thu 2 Jul 2020 15.01 BST

 

The latest negotiations in Brussels on an EU-UK trade and security deal have broken up early, with the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, complaining of a lack of respect and engagement by the British government.

The two sides ended the week’s talks – the first held in person since February – a day ahead of the jointly-agreed schedule amid evident frustration at the lack of progress in bridging what both Barnier and his UK counterpart, David Frost, described as “serious” disagreements.

“Our goal was to get negotiations successfully and quickly on a trajectory to reach an agreement”, Barnier said in a statement. “However, after four days of discussions, serious divergences remain.”

 

more...

 

Edited July 2, 2020 by david555

[david555]

20 hours ago, nauseus said:

The terms of the Withdrawal Agreement allow the UK–EU Joint Committee to extend the transition period by up to two years, but it must sign off on the length of any extension before 1 July 2020. EU lawyers say that once that window is missed, EU law makes it very difficult to agree to any extension.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/brexit-transition-period

 

Not impossible but "very difficult".

"Not impossible but "very difficult".

 

You keep still hoping to extend  …? I am surprised to read that from you  ????

Edited July 2, 2020 by david555

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, david555 said:

(Seems the patience is finally running out …)????  1 day early finished Brexit talks

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/02/brexit-talks-break-up-early-over-serious-disagreements-michel-barnier

EU-UK trade talks break up early over 'serious' disagreements
EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier complained of lack of respect and engagement by UK

Daniel Boffey in Brussels and Lisa O'Carroll
Published on 
Thu 2 Jul 2020 15.01 BST

 

The latest negotiations in Brussels on an EU-UK trade and security deal have broken up early, with the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, complaining of a lack of respect and engagement by the British government.

The two sides ended the week’s talks – the first held in person since February – a day ahead of the jointly-agreed schedule amid evident frustration at the lack of progress in bridging what both Barnier and his UK counterpart, David Frost, described as “serious” disagreements.

“Our goal was to get negotiations successfully and quickly on a trajectory to reach an agreement”, Barnier said in a statement. “However, after four days of discussions, serious divergences remain.”

Mr Barnier is in no position to negotiate anything, everytime a proposal is mentioned he has to consult the other 27 states, it is time consuming and a waste of time. I once tried to buy a car with the same arrangement, everytime I asked for something the salesman would say "I will have to speak to my boss, after a while of this time wasting I just walked out, just the same as David Frost and his negotiators hopefully did. The EU are just wasting our time, it is all a charade, no give but all take. Au Revoir, bon chance.

[david555]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

Mr Barnier is in no position to negotiate anything, everytime a proposal is mentioned he has to consult the other 27 states, it is time consuming and a waste of time. I once tried to buy a car with the same arrangement, everytime I asked for something the salesman would say "I will have to speak to my boss, after a while of this time wasting I just walked out, just the same as David Frost and his negotiators hopefully did. The EU are just wasting our time, it is all a charade, no give but all take. Au Revoir, bon chance.

Probably that car salesman  knew already you could not afford that car ,and found the polite diplomatic tone …..????

Similarity with this  Brexit talks...

 

PS: the brexiteers waisted their own time by hoping  E.U. go flat belly " as they always do " LOL , was their convinced mantra ….5555

Edited July 2, 2020 by david555

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

The EU are just wasting our time, it is all a charade, no give but all take. Au Revoir, bon chance.

Bye bye. ???? 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Mr Barnier is in no position to negotiate anything, everytime a proposal is mentioned he has to consult the other 27 states, it is time consuming and a waste of time. //

It's not at all the way EU works. The 27 decided long ago their position and the agreement they would like to have with UK. Beside of it they draw red lines (unpublished of course) for many points of this agreement. That means that Mr barnier can negotiate any position between the EU wishes and these red lines.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Mr Barnier is in no position to negotiate anything, everytime a proposal is mentioned he has to consult the other 27 states, it is time consuming and a waste of time. //

Wastes of time mainly came from UK not knowing what type of agreement it wants, or changing it at each meeting... without talking of UK wanting to come back on what it signed in the Withdrawal Agreement...  and UK not even knowing what will be its plan for its 2021 domestic subsidy regime... 

Edited July 2, 2020 by Pattaya46

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You can ignore the comparison if you don’t like it, and reduce it to the final conclusion: you don’t have to. “up to you”. 

OK. I'll just ignore the whole lot.

[nauseus]

35 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's not at all the way EU works. The 27 decided long ago their position and the agreement they would like to have with UK. Beside of it they draw red lines (unpublished of course) for many points of this agreement. That means that Mr barnier can negotiate any position between the EU wishes and these red lines.

Unpublished of course! ????

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

"Not impossible but "very difficult".

 

You keep still hoping to extend  …? I am surprised to read that from you  ????

You read just it wrong. But why am I not surprised? ????

[nauseus]

42 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

It's not at all the way EU works. The 27 decided long ago their position and the agreement they would like to have with UK. Beside of it they draw red lines (unpublished of course) for many points of this agreement. That means that Mr barnier can negotiate any position between the EU wishes and these red lines.

sounds like the number of available positions fall far short of those in the Karma Sutra: https://sites.google.com/site/frenchfashionmobi/home/downloadkamasutraworkoutepub-pdfreadonline

 

[melvinmelvin]

3 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

Wastes of time mainly came from UK not knowing what type of agreement it wants, or changing it at each meeting... without talking of UK wanting to come back on what it signed in the Withdrawal Agreement...  and UK not even knowing what will be its plan for its 2021 domestic subsidy regime... 

 

TVF is blessed with having insects as yourself onboard,

present in the meeting rooms easily spotting which party is wasting how much time

[kingdong]

13 hours ago, tebee said:

And it's going to come back to hit those who voted for it......

and those who didn,t

[cheshiremusicman]

On 6/28/2020 at 2:11 PM, DefaultName said:

Back in 75(?), I voted to join the Common Market, which I still think is a good idea, but the politicians and unelected bureaucrats have, very gradually, turned that into Federal Europe, which is not what we signed up for and is NOT a good idea (for the UK anyway)

 

The EU controlled much of UK life for decades with their rules and regulations - that we mainly adhered to while watching others ignore.

They are STILL trying to do that by forcing a deal on us that would force us to give up things like our fishing waters, while also forcing us to sign up to their rules and regulations again.

 

NO.  Out is out.

 

IMO. the UK leaving is the start of the break up of the EU - with only France and Germany paying in and all others taking out, it simply isn't sustainable.

I have to say that I agree with you. I think Italy will be the next one out of the door before the avalanche occurs and then all hell will be let loose!

[transam]

16 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

And what in your opinion is a level playing field?

If you ask a question like that............????..........then you probably don't understand anything about the subject....????

[samran]

7 hours ago, nauseus said:

Unpublished of course! ????

You haven’t done much negotiation in your life have you? You don’t go into one advertising your final position. 

[transam]

14 hours ago, tebee said:

And it's going to come back to hit those who voted for it......

It will come back and hit the EU a lot harder, lets see what other EU countries want their own boomerang in the future eh....????

[vogie]

15 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Why should I pay more for the golf course than the club members when I could just play golf on the PlayStation? Right, I don’t have to. It’s my decision. 

Nice to see you've managed to pull yourself away from your PlayStation, however the PlayStations 'EUs game of Golf 1973' has been superseded by 'World Cup Rugby,' the EU have changed the game without telling anyone, but would still like the game to be called EUs Game of Golf just for its marketing strategy.

10 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

 

Bye bye. ???? 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, cheshiremusicman said:

I think Italy will be the next one out of the door before the avalanche occurs and then all hell will be let loose!

I personally thought Netherlands but Nigel Farage I assume knows better?

 

 

Quote

 

Who will leave the European Union next?

According to Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage, Brexit will have a massive impact on the EU, with Mr Farage predicting the bloc will collapse “within 10 years”.

Mr Farage told Parliament Magazine that Italy, Poland and Denmark would be next three countries to potentially leave the EU.

He said he will continue to campaign “all over Europe” against the EU in the coming months and years.

Of Italy, Poland and Denmark Mr Farage declared: “They are the frontrunners.”

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

It's good to see that Barnier is keeping up with his ridiculous demands. The fact that no country could ever sign up to such a lopsided agreement means a No deal Brexit is looking increasingly likely, thanks Michel . I always though a level of integration similar to that which Australia has with the EU was an excellent model for us Great Britons.

 

It's been over 4 years now but all good things come to those who wait.

 

With all the empty pedestals following the BLM vandalism, maybe a statue of David Frost would be apt.