Retirement Visas-Frozen British State Pensions

[Old Dissenter]

In recent years there have been cases of British pensioners resident in Thailand who have experienced hardship as a result of their state pension being frozen at the time they left the UK. These are people who have paid their National Insurance contributions in full and taxes and include many who have served Britain in the UK armed forces.

The All Party Parliamentary Group for Frozen Pensions is now accepting submissions from those concerned about this issue. In fact, giving pension upgrades would not be a great burden on the Treasury and it must be remembered that the authorities in Britain make a saving from those living in Asia as retirees make their own provision for health care and do not receive other benefits.

Please help end the injustice of frozen pensions by giving details of your situation in an email to the APPG: Email: [email protected]

Also, membership of the British Pensions in Australia is open to those living in Thailand who  wish to receive information on the issue. https://www.bpia.org.au/

[evadgib]

Extensively covered in the pinned topic at the top of the page.

Edited July 25, 2020 by evadgib

[hashmodha]

Great! what a co-incidence,I just searched about this!I will do this now!We need all retirees here to act on this,I will repost this on Twitter!❤️

[DaLa]

Not being picky about your spelling poster, you appear to have hit  the 'v' character when typing the 'b'.  Address is 

 

frozenbritishpensions.org

 

Thank you anyway. I will look into it this very minute.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by DaLa

[OJAS]

Might also be worth mentioning in any submission to the APPG the disproportionately bureaucratic nonsense of Life Certificate witnessing.

Edited July 25, 2020 by OJAS

[hashmodha]

45 minutes ago, DaLa said:

Not being picky about your spelling poster, you appear to have hit  the 'v' character when typing the 'b'.  Address is 

 

frozenbritishpensions.org

 

Thank you anyway. I will look into it this very minute.

 

 

 

 

I was going to say the same as my mail was returned,I assumed the typo....so sent if off again. 

[hashmodha]

26 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Might also be worth mentioning in any submission to the APPG the disproportionately bureaucratic nonsense of Life Certificate witnessing.

Yes I agree with this... what a carry on? One would think they would accept our passports copies as ID.... They have all our records..My doctor refused,our Insurance agent who is a registered lawyer refused.... finally the K Bank staff knew about this.....so they just asked the Manager to sign....UK is applying rules which are not working here.... especially when here they don't understand English language... when I was living in Greece they always communicated in English/Greek language and no problems..

[Old Dissenter]

1 hour ago, DaLa said:

Not being picky about your spelling poster, you appear to have hit  the 'v' character when typing the 'b'.  Address is 

 

frozenbritishpensions.org

 

Thank you anyway. I will look into it this very minute.

 

 

 

 

Sorry about that. My keyboard has a life of its own. Thanks for the correction.

[bert bloggs]

I really hate to be a wet blanket ,but most retiries here are native British people who claim nothing from the Thai govt ,are given nothing by the Thai govt and paid into the British system all their lives , so our hopes of getting anything from the British govt are nil.

now if we were all ex immigrants to Britain and of different faiths or colours there would be mayhem in the streets of the UK about "our rights"

sorry if that sounds any sort of racism or whatever ,but in your hearts you know its true.

[NanLaew]

42 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I really hate to be a wet blanket ,but most retiries here are native British people who claim nothing from the Thai govt ,are given nothing by the Thai govt and paid into the British system all their lives , so our hopes of getting anything from the British govt are nil.

now if we were all ex immigrants to Britain and of different faiths or colours there would be mayhem in the streets of the UK about "our rights"

sorry if that sounds any sort of racism or whatever ,but in your hearts you know its true.

Maybe in your heart 'or whatever' but not mine.

[bert bloggs]

12 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Maybe in your heart 'or whatever' but not mine.

then you are very lucky ,i wish i lived in your lovely world.

[OJAS]

18 hours ago, hashmodha said:

Yes I agree with this... what a carry on? One would think they would accept our passports copies as ID.... They have all our records..My doctor refused,our Insurance agent who is a registered lawyer refused.... finally the K Bank staff knew about this.....so they just asked the Manager to sign....UK is applying rules which are not working here.... especially when here they don't understand English language... when I was living in Greece they always communicated in English/Greek language and no problems..

We can, I think, be forgiven for concluding that the witnessing requirements have been deliberately engineered so that, in practice, only those with a minimal (at best) grasp of the English language here in Thailand can perform this onerous responsibility if done properly*. Yet DWP, for reasons best known only unto themselves, steadfastly refuse to provide Thai-language versions of the witnessing forms to assist us and our witnessers in this task.

 

* By which I mean if performed literally face-to-face with your witnesser rather than remotely by snail mail with a Thaivisa member falling within the eligible witnessing categories - a service which 1 or 2 of whom on here have offered providing.

 

Apparently, DWP's rationale for these onerous witnessing requirements is that they are identical to those required for new passport applications. As if life certificates had the same intrinsic value as passports - really??

 

And then they insist on witnessed life certificates being returned to them in hard copy form by snail mail by a specified deadline - which, if missed by even a nanosecond, will result in the plug being immediately pulled on your State Pension payments!

 

About 6 months ago my occupational pension provider requested a similar life certificate - for which I got my mother-in-law to perform the witnessing honours (which, despite her lack of grasp of the English language, she was happy to do without the need for any long-winded explanation) and which I subsequently scanned and returned by email with no further problem. So why on earth can't DWP make the witnessing process similarly straightforward for State Pension life certificates - particularly since the amounts involved with our (perpetually frozen) State Pensions tend to be considerably less than those involved with our occupational pensions?

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by OJAS

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

I really hate to be a wet blanket ,but most retiries here are native British people who claim nothing from the Thai govt ,are given nothing by the Thai govt and paid into the British system all their lives , so our hopes of getting anything from the British govt are nil.

now if we were all ex immigrants to Britain and of different faiths or colours there would be mayhem in the streets of the UK about "our rights"

sorry if that sounds any sort of racism or whatever ,but in your hearts you know its true.

Not a question of racism IMHO, Bert, but more one of fundamental economics. HMRC are more than happy to clobber us expat pensioners for tax on our UK-derived income - yet we don't receive any freebies in return from UK plc as our UK counterparts do (in the form of bus passes, heating allowances, etc) - not to mention the State Pension as uprated, of course. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the burden for plugging the hole in UK plc finances resulting from Rishi Sunak's COVID-19 spending spree were eventually to fall disproportionately on our shoulders so as to keep all 'em voters back in Blighty happy.

Edited July 26, 2020 by OJAS

[jesimps]

18 hours ago, hashmodha said:

Yes I agree with this... what a carry on? One would think they would accept our passports copies as ID.... They have all our records..My doctor refused,our Insurance agent who is a registered lawyer refused.... finally the K Bank staff knew about this.....so they just asked the Manager to sign....UK is applying rules which are not working here.... especially when here they don't understand English language... when I was living in Greece they always communicated in English/Greek language and no problems..

My doctor refused also, despite speaking good English. They don't understand the concept of witnessing your signature here, they think that they're vouching for what's contained on the form. I first got the manager of the local post office to agree to sign and stamp it, when he left my wife got the owner of the school where she teaches to do it. My wife is retiring next year so I'll be stuck again. 

I'll send my details to that email address even though I don't hold out much hope. Our case has been as far as the EU and was turned down, but you never know.

Edited July 26, 2020 by jesimps

[Mutt Daeng]

#PenshionersLivesMatter

[condobrit001]

Those Brits receiving the state pension should also be aware that they can have their pensions restrored to  the current UK rate when they return to the UK. This applies to those currently stranded in the UK or even on a temporary visit. One phone call to HMRC will restore your pensions to the current level, but remember to inform them when you come back. This is an easy process with no forms required.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

then you are very lucky ,i wish i lived in your lovely world.

I read an interesting article, in reuters I think, about due to the bad demographics in all western nations (not enough children being born, a huge number of old people who live longer) it won't be too long before the pension and healthcare systems start to collapse, the writer of the column could imagine western nations soon fighting each other to get the most immigrants.

[soalbundy]

The pension freeze has been done to death, it was even brought before the European court to no avail so I can't see another attempt working out any better especially as the UK's coffers are now empty due to covid. Face reality, we don't matter, we aren't, for the most part, voters and the general public living in cloudy rain swept Britain aren't exactly full of sympathy for those who have escaped merry England to live in the sun.

As for life certificates, I go to the mayor for the stamp and signature, despite the fact that I go three times a year (British pension, German pension, German company pension) I've never had any trouble or refusal. The first time I needed my yellow book and Passport but now they don't even look at them as they are so used to seeing me. 

[pennine]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

We can, I think, be forgiven for concluding that the witnessing requirements have been deliberately engineered so that, in practice, only those with a minimal (at best) grasp of the English language here in Thailand can perform this onerous responsibility if done properly*. Yet DWP, for reasons best known only unto themselves, steadfastly refuse to provide Thai-language versions of the witnessing forms to assist us and our witnessers in this task.

 

* By which I mean if performed literally face-to-face with your witnesser rather than remotely by snail mail with a Thaivisa member falling within the eligible witnessing categories - a service which 1 or 2 of whom on here have offered providing.

 

Apparently, DWP's rationale for these onerous witnessing requirements is that they are identical to those required for new passport applications. As if life certificates had the same intrinsic value as passports - really??

 

And then they insist on witnessed life certificates being returned to them in hard copy form by snail mail by a specified deadline - which, if missed by even a nanosecond, will result in the plug being immediately pulled on your State Pension payments!

 

About 6 months ago my occupational pension provider requested a similar life certificate - for which I got my mother-in-law to perform the witnessing honours (which, despite her lack of grasp of the English language, she was happy to do without the need for any long-winded explanation) and which I subsequently scanned and returned by email with no further problem. So why on earth can't DWP make the witnessing process similarly straightforward for State Pension life certificates - particularly since the amounts involved with our (perpetually frozen) State Pensions tend to be considerably less than those involved with our occupational pensions?

 

The last letter I got asking to confirm my existence took 12 weeks to arrive, but wanted a confirmation within 8 weeks!

[izod10]

31 minutes ago, condobrit001 said:

Those Brits receiving the state pension should also be aware that they can have their pensions restrored to  the current UK rate when they return to the UK. This applies to those currently stranded in the UK or even on a temporary visit. One phone call to HMRC will restore your pensions to the current level, but remember to inform them when you come back. This is an easy process with no forms required.

Why not just purchase a Skype UK telephone number (others available,PH too)

[pennine]

2 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I really hate to be a wet blanket ,but most retiries here are native British people who claim nothing from the Thai govt ,are given nothing by the Thai govt and paid into the British system all their lives , so our hopes of getting anything from the British govt are nil.

now if we were all ex immigrants to Britain and of different faiths or colours there would be mayhem in the streets of the UK about "our rights"

sorry if that sounds any sort of racism or whatever ,but in your hearts you know its true.

I believe that this issue has been rejected several times by Parliament and even by the International Court.

[gamini]

The financial requirements for an extension of a retirement Visa haven't changed in the last 20 years.  It's the poor performance of the UK pound is causing the problem. And of course if there is a no deal brexit the pound will plummet

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

then you are very lucky ,i wish i lived in your lovely world.

But it's the very same world as yours. It's up to you how you choose to live in it.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Not a question of racism IMHO, Bert, but more one of fundamental economics. HMRC are more than happy to clobber us expat pensioners for tax on our UK-derived income - yet we don't receive any freebies in return from UK plc as our UK counterparts do (in the form of bus passes, heating allowances, etc) - not to mention the State Pension as uprated, of course. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if the burden for plugging the hole in UK plc finances resulting from Rishi Sunak's COVID-19 spending spree were eventually to fall disproportionately on our shoulders so as to keep all 'em voters back in Blighty happy.

At the risk of invoking the old "if you don't like it here" mantra, that makes perfect sense to me.

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, gamini said:

The financial requirements for an extension of a retirement Visa haven't changed in the last 20 years.  It's the poor performance of the UK pound is causing the problem. And of course if there is a no deal brexit the pound will plummet

What do you mean "if" ?

[condobrit001]

28 minutes ago, izod10 said:

Why not just purchase a Skype UK telephone number (others available,PH too)

This has nothing to do with the discussion. If fraud is detected you will lose all of your pension.

[JusticeGB]

Crazy but if you lived in the Philippines you would get an inflation linked pension. Must admit have no idea why the Philippines is one of the very few countries that has the inflation proofed pensions. 

[chilly07]

Thailand has notaries who perform this function. Unfortunately they charge for it normally 1000bht a time but you can use the same declaration for all who request a Life Certificate. Yes DWP should do it on line!

[izod10]

9 minutes ago, condobrit001 said:

This has nothing to do with the discussion. If fraud is detected you will lose all of your pension.

Just pressed the quote button,think your response deserves a slight "once over",..please supply your information source

[chilly07]

The debate on frozen pensions is still very much alive with the UK all party parliamentary group gathering evidence. Also the UK is negotiating 27 reciprocal agreements with EU countries and Trade Agreements around the world that also cover reciprocal rights