MG Cars - a few facts

[HauptmannUK]

I've read quite a few comments on here about MG Cars, most of which are inaccurate.  Since some members may be considering buying an MG I though I might post a bit of factual information.

My credentials are working as a consultant to Rover back in the late 1980's (developing their MCS96-based MEMS engine management system) and in the early 1990's (on Project Thunder - the engine management system for the five cylinder Diesel engine used by Land Rover).  Later, since the early 2000's I worked as a technology specialist for the UK government, involved in international trade. I was involved when Rover folded in 2005.

 

Here is lowdown on MG cars - this is off the top of my head so some of the dates might be slightly adrift...

 

Rover got into difficulties in 2005.  The Chinese were very interested in acquiring Western automotive technology, and to a lesser extent the Rover company itself..

Nanjing Automobile and Shanghai Automotive SAIC) were both interested in the company.  SAIC fairly quickly bought rights to various technologies and the Rover 25 and 45 platforms.  Nanjing ended up with the company itself.  However the Rover name itself had already gone to Ford (to be used on 4x4's) so they ended up with the rights to the MG marque.

Nanjing did some re-engineering to the K-series engine (called it the N-series) and started making the MG TF sports car (briefly) and the MG6 (based on 75 - which wasn't bad given its BMW platform).

Couple of years later (2008?) SAIC took over Nanjing.  So now the MG marque belongs to SAIC.

 

SAIC are China's biggest car maker. Their marques include Roewe, Baojun, MG and GM-Wulan. Plus a few others.

 

Now, very crucially, in 1995 GM got into a joint venture with SAIC - GM-Wulan - to build various GM cars for the Chinese market.

 

In 1999 Daewoo cars of Korea was in trouble and was bought out by GM.  GM then used their Daewoo facilities to design and manufacture small cars for emerging markets (and a few mature markets).

 

In 2009 GM filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.  For various involved reasons the Daewoo operation couldn't be saved.  Crucially, SAIC decided to help support GM, in exchange for a controlling interest in the joint venture in China.

The upshot of this over the following few years is that SAIC-GM ended up as a Chinese-controlled JV using GM technology.  The GM technology rapidly made its way into the various stand-alone SAIC brands.

The GM-Daewoo small engines (which were not actually that good) began appearing in SAIC products, including MG cars.

 

Moving forward into the early 2010's are GM-SAIC becomes effectively GM's emerging markets small-car operation (after the loss of Daewoo).

GM-SAIC start developing a range of engines - these are developed with a lot of input from GM Germany (Opel).

There are essentially two petrol engines - up to 1.5 litre the SGE (Small Gasoline Engine) - three or four cylinders and a Mitsubishi turbocharger.

Over 1.5 litre is the MGE - medium gasoline engine. I think a Honeywell turbo on those?  These are used worldwide, inc. US-built GM cars I believe.

They also build the old Toyota 1ZZFE 1.8 litre engine under licence plus some Diesel engines (FIAT/GM Multijet design).

These engines are used across the SAIC brands - MG, Roewe, Baojun etc.  Many of these marques share common platforms and share components/platforms with other GM vehicles. For example the MG Hector SUV is actually the Chevrolet Captiva.

 

They have also developed 6- and 7-speed Dual Clutch automatic transmissions.  These are claimed to have been jointly developed in Detroit and Shanghai.  However I am pretty sure neither location has the necessary expertise and looking at the design I suspect it was mostly designed by FEV (Aachen, Germany) for GM.  SAIC also make use of a Bosch-developed CVT on certain models.

 

SAIC retains an 'engineering centre' in UK (largely for chassis tuning) and also a 'design centre' (aesthetics).

 

The only SAIC factory I have visited is the Baojun factory in Liuzhou - they were flat out making their version of the Opel Astra when I visited a couple of years ago.  It felt very much like the German Opel factory of the time. Same equipment (German and Japanese robots etc) and same procedures.

 

So what you have in an MG is basically a small GM car!  Its very much built down to a price. Some of the materials look a bit lightweight and some of the switchgear is previous generation GM, could be better.  However they are getting better with each release.

The engines are not bad - a little rough at high RPM, but good enough.

The DCT automatic, like all DCTs, is a bit rough and hesitant at times, but so long as you can accept that then its adequate.

 

 

[vinny41]

MG is launching a 2 two cars in October

one is all electric station wagon ( estate) MGe5 Station Wagon

the 2nd one is a petrol / electric phev similar shape to existing MGHS suv,  new model will be called MG eHS 0-100 km  in just 5.8 seconds

 

[HauptmannUK]

The Chevrolet Captiva sold in Thailand up until Chevrolet pulled out was actually developed as the Baojun 530 in China.  It is exported to various markets as the Chevrolet Captiva. To India as the MG Hector.  It is also locally built in Indonesia where it is sold as the Wuling Almaz.  Its is these cars (badged as Captiva's) that were being sold in Thailand.

Thailand will see the same vehicle again badged as an MG.

So you can see that Chevrolet pulling out of Thailand starts to make a bit more sense...

[madhav]

The Chinese car manufacturing industry is Gigantic. Most people are not aware how many cars they manufacture over there. Also the speed that the technology is improving. It makes Thailand look prehistoric. 

 

Now they are focused on EV tech. If they let in a few models it would really disrupt things over here.

 

Check our this video showcasing the top EV models at a recent car show to see what I am talking about.
 

 

The prices are what amaze me. I mean you can legitimately get so many cars for under 350k-400k baht. And some really amazing models like the BYD Han which rival Euro tech for about the 1 million baht price range. 

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

... I was involved when Rover folded in 2005.

Aha! So it was YOU, eh?!

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

... It is also locally built in Indonesia where it is sold as the Wuling Almaz.

So let's see, either the Aston Martin DBS Superleggera or the Wuling Almaz... choices, choices.

 

Very good topic by the OP. Most MG threads turn into China bashing and only gets the old codgers posting pictures of even older sports cars they didn't ever own. The GM tie-in may be reassuring to those die-hard local Chevy aficionados.

 

Thanks!

[transam]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

So let's see, either the Aston Martin DBS Superleggera or the Wuling Almaz... choices, choices.

 

Very good topic by the OP. Most MG threads turn into China bashing and only gets the old codgers posting pictures of even older sports cars they didn't ever own. The GM tie-in may be reassuring to those die-hard local Chevy aficionados.

 

Thanks!

I had a 1964 MGB Roadster with wire wheels........... ????

 

[stouricks]

Why do the prices on screen not coincide with those the presenter says? 

[Airalee]

9 hours ago, transam said:

I had a 1964 MGB Roadster with wire wheels........... ????

 

MG needs to reintroduce the MGB in an updated style where the basic shape doesn’t veer to far from the original, like Mazda did with the ugly new MX5 ND.  Build it here in Thailand, with a 1.8-2.0 engine, price it under a million baht and I think they would have a winner.
 

Currently, the MG is more like a Honda Jazz, or a comparable Nissan that looks like it was designed by Tom Peters (Pontiac Aztek)

 

it needs to look more like this....not the Aztek below.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Airalee

[mistral53]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:36 AM, vinny41 said:

MG is launching a 2 two cars in October

one is all electric station wagon ( estate) MGe5 Station Wagon

the 2nd one is a petrol / electric phev similar shape to existing MGHS suv,  new model will be called MG eHS 0-100 km  in just 5.8 seconds

 

Is there a place to find confirmation about your comment on the MG eHS? I am eagerly awaiting details on the car, specifically pricing and release date in Thailand?

I was close to pulling the trigger on the MG ZS EV, but once I checked into the charging network of Thailand, I realized it is just not (yet) a viable vehicle. The PHEV model eHs would alleviate the lack of charging stations in rural Thailand completely.

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, mistral53 said:

Is there a place to find confirmation about your comment on the MG eHS? I am eagerly awaiting details on the car, specifically pricing and release date in Thailand?

I was close to pulling the trigger on the MG ZS EV, but once I checked into the charging network of Thailand, I realized it is just not (yet) a viable vehicle. The PHEV model eHs would alleviate the lack of charging stations in rural Thailand completely.

Some info can be found here 

http://www.headlightmag.com/mg-hs-plug-in-hybrid-coming-soon-thailand/

https://www.autodeft.com/defthint/mg-ehs-plug-in-hybrid-suv-coming-soon-thailand-2020

 

I have read there is a bkk mg dealer taking pre-orders (1200) bit naughty as no pricing or offical announcement has been made by MG yet pricing is expect between 1.3-1.4 electric range is 75km car so i would see using the electric in slow traffic and switching to petrol  once your clear of slow traffic

[Jack Hna]

The history was interesting but if your that well schooled on cars you should be doing blogs about what not to and what to be looking at here for car buyers.

 

I am sure many would be interested in your views.

 

Mitsubishi Xpander?

[Don Mega]

On 8/28/2020 at 12:38 AM, HauptmannUK said:

The Chevrolet Captiva sold in Thailand up until Chevrolet pulled out was actually developed as the Baojun 530 in China.  It is exported to various markets as the Chevrolet Captiva. To India as the MG Hector.  It is also locally built in Indonesia where it is sold as the Wuling Almaz.  Its is these cars (badged as Captiva's) that were being sold in Thailand.

Thailand will see the same vehicle again badged as an MG.

So you can see that Chevrolet pulling out of Thailand starts to make a bit more sense...

And the Captiva was utter <deleted>, it comes as no surprise the Chinese connection !!

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, Airalee said:

MG needs to reintroduce the MGB in an updated style where the basic shape doesn’t veer to far from the original, like Mazda did with the ugly new MX5 ND.  Build it here in Thailand, with a 1.8-2.0 engine, price it under a million baht and I think they would have a winner.
 

Currently, the MG is more like a Honda Jazz, or a comparable Nissan that looks like it was designed by Tom Peters (Pontiac Aztek)

 

it needs to look more like this....not the Aztek below.

 

 

Dammit transam! Look what you've gone and done now?

 

My eyes!!!... my eyes!!!...

[transam]

11 hours ago, Airalee said:

MG needs to reintroduce the MGB in an updated style where the basic shape doesn’t veer to far from the original, like Mazda did with the ugly new MX5 ND.  Build it here in Thailand, with a 1.8-2.0 engine, price it under a million baht and I think they would have a winner.
 

Currently, the MG is more like a Honda Jazz, or a comparable Nissan that looks like it was designed by Tom Peters (Pontiac Aztek)

 

it needs to look more like this....not the Aztek below.

 

You can still buy a new MGB....

 

 

[mistral53]

6 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Some info can be found here 

http://www.headlightmag.com/mg-hs-plug-in-hybrid-coming-soon-thailand/

https://www.autodeft.com/defthint/mg-ehs-plug-in-hybrid-suv-coming-soon-thailand-2020

 

I have read there is a bkk mg dealer taking pre-orders (1200) bit naughty as no pricing or offical announcement has been made by MG yet pricing is expect between 1.3-1.4 electric range is 75km car so i would see using the electric in slow traffic and switching to petrol  once your clear of slow traffic

Thanks for the links - sounds very promising, 16,6 Kwh battery is perfect, it will allow for good electric range in town, and for longer trips the gasoline engine gives it range anxiety free operation. If MG prices this vehicle right, this could really put them on the map as supplier of attractive BEV and PHEV vehicles.

And I am more than happy that MG is not manufactured in England anymore - just have a look at the pictures of the original MG's on this thread, and the horror memories are rushing back - this time around MG is not the laughing stock of the automotive landscape anymore.

 

[mistral53]

21 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So let's see, either the Aston Martin DBS Superleggera or the Wuling Almaz... choices, choices.

 

Very good topic by the OP. Most MG threads turn into China bashing and only gets the old codgers posting pictures of even older sports cars they didn't ever own. The GM tie-in may be reassuring to those die-hard local Chevy aficionados.

 

Thanks!

You have to read between the lines - 99% of China basing on TVF is just good old jealousy by butt hurt old geezers...........

[transam]

1 hour ago, mistral53 said:

You have to read between the lines - 99% of China basing on TVF is just good old jealousy by butt hurt old geezers...........

Not really, it's just that stuff that is a bit cheaper and doesn't last very long is usually from China.

You can even buy brand named items that are exact Chinese copies that fail early. 

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Not really, it's just that stuff that is a bit cheaper and doesn't last very long is usually from China.

You can even buy brand named items that are exact Chinese copies that fail early. 

Well it wouldn't be hard to cite the British car industry with making its fair share of "dogs" now would it!

[transam]

3 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well it wouldn't be hard to cite the British car industry with making its fair share of "dogs" now would it!

Absolutely, but at least they were their own dogs created by B.M.C....????

[Airalee]

2 hours ago, transam said:

You can still buy a new MGB....

 

 

No you can’t.  From watching the video, Heritage only produces shells that the buyer of the shell can then install all their old parts.

[transam]

17 minutes ago, Airalee said:

No you can’t.  From watching the video, Heritage only produces shells that the buyer of the shell can then install all their old parts.

Yes, and the buyer ends up with a new MGB on the road, with original parts OR modern upgrades....?...........????

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by transam

[Airalee]

20 minutes ago, transam said:

Yes, and the buyer ends up with a new MGB on the road, with original parts OR modern upgrades....?...........????

 

 

That is a far cry from what I was referring to in my original post.  I believe that you, as a self professed car aficionado with “Transam” as a nickname and “The Driver” as your pic should know that.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

That is a far cry from what I was referring to in my original post.  I believe that you, as a self professed car aficionado with “Transam” as a nickname and “The Driver” as your pic should know that.

Think what you like, but you can own a new MGB...... 

 

My username relates to a car I owned for 23 years.

My Avatar is James Taylor, I sing his songs and I like his only film.....????

[Airalee]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Think what you like, but you can own a new MGB...... 

 

My username relates to a car I owned for 23 years.

My Avatar is James Taylor, I sing his songs and I like his only film.....????

If a person could walk into an MG dealership and purchase a new MGB then yes...you can own a new MGB...well...a modern reinterpretation as I referred to in my original post.  Just like a person could have walked into a Ford dealership and purchased a Ford GT which was the modern interpretation of the original GT40 from the 60s.

 

Cobbling together an MGB does not constitute “purchasing a new MGB”

[transam]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

If a person could walk into an MG dealership and purchase a new MGB then yes...you can own a new MGB...well...a modern reinterpretation as I referred to in my original post.  Just like a person could have walked into a Ford dealership and purchased a Ford GT which was the modern interpretation of the original GT40 from the 60s.

 

Cobbling together an MGB does not constitute “purchasing a new MGB”

????..........Keep digging.........????

 

Oh, the Ford GT does not have a Ford GT40 body shell, it is wider and longer to just look like a GT40....????

[Airalee]

Just now, transam said:

????..........Keep digging.........????

 

Oh, the Ford GT does not have a Ford GT40 body shell, it is wider and longer to just look like a GT40....????

I believe you’re the one digging and showing your lack of reading comprehension.

 

From my original post...

 

”MG needs to reintroduce the MGB in an updated style where the basic shape doesn’t veer to far from the original, like Mazda did with the ugly new MX5 ND.  Build it here in Thailand, with a 1.8-2.0 engine, price it under a million baht and I think they would have a winner.”

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I believe you’re the one digging and showing your lack of reading comprehension.

 

From my original post...

 

”MG needs to reintroduce the MGB in an updated style where the basic shape doesn’t veer to far from the original, like Mazda did with the ugly new MX5 ND.  Build it here in Thailand, with a 1.8-2.0 engine, price it under a million baht and I think they would have a winner.”

OK................????

[twocatsmac]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

Think what you like, but you can own a new MGB...... 

 

My username relates to a car I owned for 23 years.

My Avatar is James Taylor, I sing his songs and I like his only film.....????

I loved Transams and James Taylor. 

Are you single?????

[JeffersLos]

On 8/27/2020 at 11:54 PM, HauptmannUK said:

Their marques include Roewe, Baojun, MG and GM-Wulan.

impressive.