It's Getting Worse...More Shops Closing Down

[ChipButty]

11 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Paying no Thai taxes?  Unless an expat buys absolutely nothing he is paying Thai taxes living in Thailand.  He pays the 7% VAT.  He pays the petrol tax and the electricity tax. He pays a hefty auto tax when he purchases a vehicle.  Hefty liquor taxes.  Hotel taxes.  Last time I checked I am not exempt from paying tolls on the motorway and other roads that have tolls so expats are paying road taxes. 

    Every time I buy a condo I pay property taxes on the purchase.  So far I have paid these taxes on 22 condo purchases.  Every time I sell a condo I pay property taxes on the sale.  So far I have paid  these taxes on 20 condo sales.  Even just estimating low at 100,000 baht in condo taxes per condo (with my last condo sale it was 400,000 baht), that's over 4MB paid in property taxes.  Recently, expats who own condos in their name  or houses in company name have been marching themselves to City Hall to pay the  annual property tax.  

     I think it's clear the economic contributions of most expats into the Thai economy are by far a net benefit to Thailand.  No, of course we aren't as important as international tourists and Thailand's main focus is on them, and that's as it should be.  However, with international tourists numbers currently at zero, expats are making an important contribution locally in helping to keep businesses afloat.  Some places, it likely is, as you say, 'a drop in a large pond'.  But, in places like Pattaya, it's far more than a drop. 

Exactly what I was going to say, also the amount of maintenance work you have had done over the years like me we own some property it never stops only yesterday I needed some small jobs doing so a local guy gets a days work out me, is that not supporting the local community? even a bottle of HP sauce Im paying import duty, 

[ChipButty]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

3400 baht for a gardener and bug sprayer? I could get the same done at my GF's house for 800 baht tops. They certainly saw you coming. On ignore now.

Maybe he has a Ranch, I get the pest control company is 10,000 Baht per year and thats inside and outside

[Lacessit]

15 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

Maybe his garden is four times the size of your ladys garden ?

It's possible. It's also possible he is living in a 20 sqm room without aircon for 2000 baht a month.

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

Paying no Thai taxes?

You appear to be working here.... we were discussing Expats but really I was focussing on those who are retired here. This is certainly not you.

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

3400 baht for a gardener and bug sprayer? I could get the same done at my GF's house for 800 baht tops. They certainly saw you coming. On ignore now.

Is that how you handle all discussions, bury your head?

So I can openly say you are taking advantage of the locals by being cheap with what you pay them for services. Sort of supports my position really.....

Your girlfriend's house is the same as mine is it...?

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, ChipButty said:

Maybe he has a Ranch, I get the pest control company is 10,000 Baht per year and thats inside and outside

Of course they do inside and outside, inside walls, outside walls, quite comprehensive. I pay only a little more than you. It gets done every 2 months.

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[jacko45k]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

It's possible. It's also possible he is living in a 20 sqm room without aircon for 2000 baht a month.

And yet still have a garden eh........ pay attention now!

[petermik]

And MY gardens bigger than all of yours put together........

 

Any chance of getting back on topic chaps???

[AlfHuy]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Hell no... funny guy, his truck is 40+ years old and barely makes it up the street. Saw him wearing a crash helmet a while back and was pleased he was protecting his eyes while working, happy he had reacted to my concerns. Then he showed me his eye that had been hit a week prior... they can't be told but they can learn!

Bought his some safety glasses from HomePro.

his truck is 40 years old but he is a 25year old stallion. 555

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

his truck is 40 years old but he is a 25year old stallion. 555

Not really, an old guy trying to survive. Usually moonlighting on his day off, but now his regular job in a hotel has gone. That is on topic... a hotel closed!

[newnative]

20 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

You appear to be working here.... we were discussing Expats but really focussing on those who are retired here. This is certainly not you.

    No, I am not working here.  I am a retired expat.  My partner and I like to buy a condo, fix it up, buy furniture for it, live in it for awhile, get bored, and then sell it and move on to the next one.  What we mostly do is shop, which isn't work.  Shop and buy a condo--and pay taxes.  Shop and buy a car--and pay taxes.  Shop and buy a refrigerator, tv, microwave, sofa, and so on--and pay taxes.  Etc., etc.  We also bought five condos to rent out over the years, never owning more than one at a time, so not really a business there, either.  But, all that's beside the point.  Let's focus, as you say, on retired expats.  Most retired expats in Thailand, certainly all I know, are paying some, if not all the taxes that I mentioned--the taxes you didn't address in your response.  To claim, as you did, that '...many expats pay no Thai taxes...' just doesn't make any sense. 

[jacko45k]

40 minutes ago, newnative said:

No, I am not working here. 

That is a different argument and as far as I perceive, you are working here.

I suppose we all pay small amounts of local taxes that are unavoidable...  but it is a small fraction of what I would be subjected to in the UK. I should have spoken more exactly. I reclaim witholding tax, and take interest from the bank. I pay my bug sprayer and gardener too much too, apparently. I have only ever bought one car and one motorcycle here in many years.  Electricity tax, loose change, booze is a luxury and that can be avoided if I wanted, I rarely pay tolls, fuel is cheap and I feel I save every time I buy some, I am taking advantage of the low fuel taxes without contribution. If you are making profit on your condo sales you are taking out more than you put in and should be taxed. 4MB on sales tax, how much did you take out of the country in profit? Perhaps I can simplify my position, I feel gratitude to Thailand for allowing me to live in Thailand quite cheaply and easily....( although that is being eroded). I feel negatively to those who feel Thailand owes them something.

Edited September 8, 2020 by jacko45k

[newnative]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

And if you got on a plane tomorrow the only people who would miss your small input would be those you live with and perhaps support.

Re-read my post, it doesn't say ALL Expats. Tax on bank interest is 15/100x0.5/100 p.a. and I am surprised you found it worth mentioning, along with the other little buttons! You forgot property tax .

 

Comparing yourself to a Thai is a diversion, they were born here and are citizens and have a right of abode. As I said, a claim I read on this forum ad naseum.

You spend 50,000 a month for your own benefit not the Thai people's.

Anyhow, this morning I got the gardener coming, 1600 baht, and the bug sprayer, 1800 baht, (better examples for you). Must dash.

     Well, there you go.  You've got the gardener coming and the bug sprayer.  So, you alone are keeping two Thai workers in employment today--and all the other days you employ them.  Those two workers, thanks to you, will have enough money to, perhaps, stop and have their hair cut, thus helping another Thai worker stay in business.  They may buy dinner on their way home, helping another Thai food worker.  The hair stylist and the food worker will now also have money in their pockets to spend, helping other Thais.  And so on, and so on. 

      That 1600 baht you spent and the 1800 baht you spent did not just benefit you--it also directly benefited the two workers and other Thai workers indirectly.  The same goes for the 50,000 baht Lacessit spends each month.  That's 50,000 baht pouring into the local economy each and every  month.  Yes, Lacessit benefits, but many Thais benefit, as well.  Multiply that by the number of expats and, for many local businesses, the contributions of expats can be the difference between staying in business or having to close up.  A tourist doesn't hire a gardener or a bug sprayer.  You do.

[newnative]

2 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

That is a different argument and as far as I perceive, you are working here.

I suppose we all pay small amounts of local taxes that are unavoidable...  but it is a small fraction of what I would be subjected to in the UK. I should have spoken more exactly. I reclaim witholding tax, and take interest from the bank. I pay my bug sprayer and gardener too much too, apparently. I have only ever bought one car and one motorcycle here in many years.  Electricity tax, loose change, booze is a luxury and that can be avoided if I wanted, I rarely pay tolls, fuel is cheap and I feel I save every time I buy some, I am taking advantage of the low fuel taxes without contribution. If you are making profit on your condo sales you are taking out more than you put in and should be taxed. 4MB on sales tax, how much did you take out of the country in profit? Perhaps I can simplify my position, I feel gratitude to Thailand for allowing me to live in Thailand quite cheaply and easily....( although that is being eroded). I feel negatively to those who feel Thailand owes them something.

    I am taxed on each condo sale and I pay what is owed in taxes.  I haven't taken any of the profits out of Thailand; I have used the money to buy other condos here in Thailand and the rest of it is in savings here.  Certainly some taxes are lower here, and some are higher--I wasn't arguing tax rates in my posts.  I was simply saying that retired expats do pay taxes in Thailand and most expats provide a net benefit to Thailand by being here.  Like you, I do feel gratitude to be allowed to live here.

[AbeNormal]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You spend 50,000 a month for your own benefit not the Thai people's.

You are missing the point

 

Every baht I spend in this country is brought in from outside of Thailand, it is actually a form of export since it is foreign currency buying Thai goods and services in Thailand

 

Thais generally spend money they earn in Thailand, the benefits are through taxation and to businesses that employ people and provide products and services, basic economics 101, we also contribute to this in the same way  

[AbeNormal]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Granted, I may not be spending as much as a two week tourist

over a year you are spending a lot more, economics doesn't operate over 2 weeks

[AbeNormal]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

They have 8 trillion plus to fall back on.

and if they decide to use it they will flood the economy with baht, it will cause instability and dilution of baht pushing down its value, too much foreign currency reserves can often be detrimental especially if a country relies heavily on exports, IMO Thailand is holding far to much FCR, they should have been managing it over time

[jacko45k]

6 minutes ago, AbeNormal said:

You are missing the point

There is little choice but to spend money and for it to be imported. Same same every tourist too ....

But at just 50,000 in a whole month, a few short term tourists is far superior.

It is a different point.

[AbeNormal]

3 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Maybe his garden is four times the size of your ladys garden ?

maybe he lives in a 4k a month condo, who knows

 

my garden is massive

 

honest

[jacko45k]

Just now, AbeNormal said:

and if they decide to use it they will flood the economy with baht, it will cause instability and dilution of baht pushing down its value, too much foreign currency reserves can often be detrimental especially if a country relies heavily on exports, IMO Thailand is holding far to much FCR, they should have been managing it over time

Err, it is held in foreign reserves. It once seemed excessive but now will likely cushion the problems their Covid isolation is causing.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, AbeNormal said:

maybe he lives in a 4k a month condo, who knows

 

my garden is massive

 

honest

Do 4k condos have gardens in your experience?

[ExpatDraco]

On 9/2/2020 at 1:17 PM, Susco said:

In the same fridge you would have daily made Vol au vent - lasagne - 3 types of mashed potatoes - stuffed tomatoes and aubergines, and a few other dishes I don't recall as I didn't buy them frequently.  It is all gone indefinitely.

 

I really miss those stuffed tomatoes. I used to buy 4 or 5 boxes at the same time when they were available. ????

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Well, there you go.  You've got the gardener coming and the bug sprayer. 

And here we are some hours later, the garden all neat and tidy, bugs all dead, and I now watch the pool-boy cleaning the gardener's mess off the pool. Another Thai worker....well.....actually not, he is Cambodian!???? I am keeping 2 countries afloat.

[Chelseafan]

7 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Maybe his garden is four times the size of your ladys garden ?

Thats a big ladygarden...

 

[rott]

I hate to be the one to get back on topic but in the midst of so many closures Soi 16 is still bustling. Not a tourist Soi and seems to be to some extent a local Indian community place. 

 

That was yesterday, today I was on the Klang (not been there for a while either) which seems to be having mixed fortunes. Still lively enough but more than a few closures. 

 

Sorry to have interrupted, please carry on. 

[ChipButty]

Yesterday I went out at 4-30pm you could see a big difference on the roads even driving home around 7pm it was dead I have to drive past a local market and that looked quiet is that it now? until the next holiday this is not looking good

[jacko45k]

Read elesewhere of a rumour the PBG might have closed....  anybody regularly in town might take a look please.

[johng]

What is PBG ?

[jacko45k]

Just now, johng said:

What is PBG ?

Apologies, Pattaya Beer Garden.

[johng]

Well I drove past there on Sunday and the entrance was still open there was a woman standing there maybe a welcomer ? didn't see any signs posted about closing down the open air beer bars nearer to walking street where most certainly closed.