It's Getting Worse...More Shops Closing Down

[VBF]

On 9/2/2020 at 2:39 AM, Pattaya Spotter said:

Just as an example, I sat in a bar in Soi Made In Thailand for an hour between 8-9 p.m., and MAYBE there were 50-75 customers sitting at the bars or wandered through. At least half the bars were shuttered. 

 

Being a full-timer, I appreciate the drop in traffic and crowds as much as anyone, but it's too the point where it's eerie and there is a lot of undeserved pain out there.

I totally appreciate the difficulties that are being, and will continue to be faced due to CV, but I do feel that Soi Made In Thailand isn't the best example. I was in Patts in Jan-April 2019 and Jan-Mar 2020 and visited MIT several times on various times of the night.

 

In 2019, I remember thinking that the area was dying on its feet and was becoming boring; in 2020, before the effects of CV really hit, it was worse. One of the bar owners also has (had?) a bar on Soi Buakhao and he totally agreed with me - he said that when his lease was up in Soi MIT, he wouldn't be renewing it.

 

So SADLY, Soi MIT was, IMO, destined to become the way it is - CV has exacerbated the process.

 

@Pattaya Spotter I've "liked" many of your posts in this thread, but it might be interesting (and possibly more relevant) to get your take on Soi LK Metro. Clearly it's also been hit hard but I rather think it'll recover sooner.

Edited September 5, 2020 by VBF

[blackcab]

Off topic posts have been removed.

 

While I recognise that immigration matters do reflect on the reason why shops are closing, this topic is not the place for an in depth discussion about member's immigration status.

[newnative]

     Lovely, lovely evening tonight in north Pattaya.  Lots of people on the beach earlier;  the banana boats were getting some business.  Dark now and with the hotels in my view I see most of the rooms lit up at Holiday Inn, Grande Centre Point, Mytt, Cape Dara, Dusit, Mercure, A-01, Grand Palazzo, Brighton, and many of the smaller boutique hotels.  Hopefully, other areas are doing well, too.  

[Wongkitlo]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

Only Thai logic would see long term tourists, buy choice or otherwise, kicked out of the country when their tourism industry has been decimated here.  

 

They are not begging, they are not working, they are not stealing, and not scamming.  They are paying rent, buying food and other groceries, and attending bars etc. 

 

Yet, the Thai government wants them out.  How ridiculous?  

Sadly a large number of pensioners on TVF feel the same. They seem to have no compassion for their fellow humans and want to send them back home to catch Covid

Edited September 5, 2020 by Wongkitlo
Edit

[Wongkitlo]

57 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Lovely, lovely evening tonight in north Pattaya.  Lots of people on the beach earlier;  the banana boats were getting some business.  Dark now and with the hotels in my view I see most of the rooms lit up at Holiday Inn, Grande Centre Point, Mytt, Cape Dara, Dusit, Mercure, A-01, Grand Palazzo, Brighton, and many of the smaller boutique hotels.  Hopefully, other areas are doing well, too.  

Yes public holiday. Government is sure will pull lots of tourists. Was there on the weekend a few weeks back. Very quiet

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, Wongkitlo said:

Sadly a large number of pensioners on TVF feel the same. They seem to have no compassion for their fellow humans and want to send them back home to catch Covid

My comments are not based on compassion, they are based on economic reality. 

 

It makes no sense to kick out tourists, at a time when you have no tourists, and don't look like getting any tourists in the foreseeable future.

 

Is the Thai government really that worried about their lousy visa fees?

[BigStar]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

     Lovely, lovely evening tonight in north Pattaya.  Lots of people on the beach earlier;  the banana boats were getting some business.  Dark now and with the hotels in my view I see most of the rooms lit up at Holiday Inn, Grande Centre Point, Mytt, Cape Dara, Dusit, Mercure, A-01, Grand Palazzo, Brighton, and many of the smaller boutique hotels.  Hopefully, other areas are doing well, too.  

Agreed, lots of people on the beach and even a bit of a traffic jam on Beach & 2nd Rds. Also T21 was doing great, restos & shops. Foodland packed, long lines at the cashier . . . .

 

I must report the news that one of the forum's most Sacred Truths has now proven false: that only stupid farang tourists FOB go to Hooter's, with more money than sense. SHOCK! A lot of Thais were in Hooter's tonight. Wot? Yes, Thais. Thais can afford Hooter's and are going there! OH NO.

 

Now we know that these Thais can't be tourists, as TAT: TVF doesn't recognize domestic tourism and holds that Thais only buy som tam and Sangsom, with what little money they have. So it may be that these were not really Thais but merely farang disguised as Thais. Perhaps our sleuths can investigate before some of our experts lose the will to live. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by BigStar

[Susco]

9 minutes ago, BigStar said:

Agreed, lots of people on the beach and even a bit of a traffic jam on Beach & 2nd Rds. Also T21 was doing great, restos & shops. Foodland packed, long lines at the cashier . . . .

 

I must report the news that one of the forum's most Sacred Truths has now proven false: that only stupid farang tourists FOB go to Hooter's, with more money than sense. SHOCK! A lot of Thais were in Hooter's tonight. Wot? Yes, Thais. Thais can afford Hooter's and are going there! OH NO.

 

Now we know that these Thais can't be tourists, as TAT: TVF doesn't recognize domestic tourism and holds that Thais only buy som tam and Sangsom, with what little money they have. So it may be that these were not really Thais but merely farang disguised as Thais. Perhaps our sleuths can investigate before some of our experts lose the will to live. 

 

It is an extra long weekend, with tollways free at al, so it quite normal that Pattaya is busy.

 

In case you are not aware, there are 7 days in a week, and 52 weekends in a year, of which only few are long holiday weekends.

 

Please report back, with pictures, from the very same place on Wednesday 9 September, if they are still so busy

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

Yes public holiday. Government is sure will pull lots of tourists. Was there on the weekend a few weeks back. Very quiet

It's all very well for the economy of Pattaya, but how does giving everyone a couple of days off help the overall economy. Is the nett sum beneficial?

[Oldie]

Yesterday evening I walked around in Central Pattaya. In the Food Hall area of the Central Mall were many Thais eating. On the beach were many Thais sitting in groups and eating and drinking. And then I went to the Walking Street - haven't been there for years but I wanted to see how many people are there. It was a completely new experience. I would say much more than half of all businesses were closed. New was that you had to be careful since there is traffic now. Not much but there is some traffic. New was also that instead of bar girls standing left and right you have there now parked cars. I didn't see very many people walking around. Most were Asians - hard to say if Thais or not. Most were young. Perhaps 20 to 30 years old. I didn't go into one of the Go-Go bars. But the bars were I could have a look from outside were mostly empty. Then the Tourist Police. 2 Thais and 3 foreigners. The Thais used masks the foreigners not. It just confirmed that foreigners don't want to use masks. Their Thai colleagues should have arrested them...

[petermik]

8 hours ago, Oldie said:

Yesterday evening I walked around in Central Pattaya. In the Food Hall area of the Central Mall were many Thais eating.

I must concur as I saw the same mid afternoon....normally the place is dead and will be again tuesday onwards...just as a footnote as I passed through the checkouts in Tops I noticed the price of the vegetable omelette with rice (very tasty) had gone up from 19 baht to 45...ouch

[newnative]

8 hours ago, Susco said:

 

It is an extra long weekend, with tollways free at al, so it quite normal that Pattaya is busy.

 

In case you are not aware, there are 7 days in a week, and 52 weekends in a year, of which only few are long holiday weekends.

 

Please report back, with pictures, from the very same place on Wednesday 9 September, if they are still so busy

     No, if you are a regular reader of T-V, it is NOT 'quite normal that Pattaya is busy'.  It is quite abnormal, indeed, and needs to be looked at.  How many countless times have we been told by T-V posters, most not actually in Pattaya, of course, that Pattaya has absolutely nothing to offer anyone except sex.  Why, they ask, would non-sex tourists go to Pattaya since it has nothing else to offer at all.   At this point they almost always mention (and show their ignorance) how awful and trash-filled Pattaya Beach is--when it hasn't been completely washed away by the last rainfall.  

     A few of us who actually live here have mentioned from time to time that there's a lot on offer in Pattaya besides sex but it has mostly fallen on deaf ears.  No, no, no, Pattaya was only barely surviving on sex tourists and Chinese who had no idea where the tour was taking them.  Nobody else in their right mind would set foot in Pattaya--and certainly not FAMILIES, god forbid.  Certainly not THAIS, who wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near it.

     Happily, Thai tourists ARE coming to Pattaya in fairly large numbers on weekends, and not just holiday weekends.  Some have always been coming to their Pattaya getaway condos and others may be new and discovering how much Pattaya has changed since maybe they were last here.  I think Pattaya is likely getting good word of mouth now from people who visit (even Pilotman had a few kind words, if I recall) and that will maybe translate into more Thai and other visitors.

      Will 9 September be less busy?  Of course it will.  When I look out at the hotels I mentioned in my earlier post I won't see all the rooms lit up on 9 September--I'll see scattered rooms lit up here and there in the hotels--hopefully enough to get them through to the next weekend.  When I go to my favorite restaurants during the week I'll see enough Thai families and enough expats dining to keep the restaurants open.  And, that's the same for many other businesses that cater to both Thais and expats.  Of course, with covid things are still dire with Pattaya and other tourist towns around the world.  But, do allow me a few glimmers of hope--and one is certainly the nice turnout of Thais coming to Pattaya on both holiday and non-holiday weekends, and some during the week, as well.  

[Peterw42]

10 minutes ago, newnative said:

     No, if you are a regular reader of T-V, it is NOT 'quite normal that Pattaya is busy'.  It is quite abnormal, indeed, and needs to be looked at.  How many countless times have we been told by T-V posters, most not actually in Pattaya, of course, that Pattaya has absolutely nothing to offer anyone except sex.  Why, they ask, would non-sex tourists go to Pattaya since it has nothing else to offer at all.   At this point they almost always mention (and show their ignorance) how awful and trash-filled Pattaya Beach is--when it hasn't been completely washed away by the last rainfall.  

     A few of us who actually live here have mentioned from time to time that there's a lot on offer in Pattaya besides sex but it has mostly fallen on deaf ears.  No, no, no, Pattaya was only barely surviving on sex tourists and Chinese who had no idea where the tour was taking them.  Nobody else in their right mind would set foot in Pattaya--and certainly not FAMILIES, god forbid.  Certainly not THAIS, who wouldn't be caught dead anywhere near it.

     Happily, Thai tourists ARE coming to Pattaya in fairly large numbers on weekends, and not just holiday weekends.  Some have always been coming to their Pattaya getaway condos and others may be new and discovering how much Pattaya has changed since maybe they were last here.  I think Pattaya is likely getting good word of mouth now from people who visit (even Pilotman had a few kind words, if I recall) and that will maybe translate into more Thai and other visitors.

      Will 9 September be less busy?  Of course it will.  When I look out at the hotels I mentioned in my earlier post I won't see all the rooms lit up on 9 September--I'll see scattered rooms lit up here and there in the hotels--hopefully enough to get them through to the next weekend.  When I go to my favorite restaurants during the week I'll see enough Thai families and enough expats dining to keep the restaurants open.  And, that's the same for many other businesses that cater to both Thais and expats.  Of course, with covid things are still dire with Pattaya and other tourist towns around the world.  But, do allow me a few glimmers of hope--and one is certainly the nice turnout of Thais coming to Pattaya on both holiday and non-holiday weekends, and some during the week, as well.  

You should know by now your observations, no matter how factual, will fall on deaf ears.

There is only one true and reliable economic indicator for Pattaya, "the empty barstools in soi sexpat" indicator.

 

Like you, I see it everyday, Pattaya/Jomtien is actually very busy with Thai tourists. This long-weekend and pockets full of stimulus money, incredibly so.

[Peterw42]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

It's all very well for the economy of Pattaya, but how does giving everyone a couple of days off help the overall economy. Is the nett sum beneficial?

A couple of days off combined with the 40% hotels and food package benefits all of Thailand. I went on a trip last week with 3 Thais, spending the stimulus money, we stayed in hotels that were full of other thais doing the same, dined out in busy restaurants. That was midweek and away from Pattaya.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

A couple of days off combined with the 40% hotels and food package benefits all of Thailand. I went on a trip last week with 3 Thais, spending the stimulus money, we stayed in hotels that were full of other thais doing the same, dined out in busy restaurants. That was midweek and away from Pattaya.

It is bloody awful in Pattaya right now, roads all snarled up and people driving round and round looking for parking.

[Leaver]

5 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You should know by now your observations, no matter how factual, will fall on deaf ears.

There is only one true and reliable economic indicator for Pattaya, "the empty barstools in soi sexpat" indicator.

 

Like you, I see it everyday, Pattaya/Jomtien is actually very busy with Thai tourists. This long-weekend and pockets full of stimulus money, incredibly so.

We have all seen the build up, the crowds, and the exodus before.  It's good for business here,  but are you suggesting they can survive on it? 

 

If so, that's great for some businesses catering for Thai's, but what about businesses catering for westerners?  How does domestic tourism help them?     

[Oldie]

7 minutes ago, Leaver said:

We have all seen the build up, the crowds, and the exodus before.  It's good for business here,  but are you suggesting they can survive on it? 

 

If so, that's great for some businesses catering for Thai's, but what about businesses catering for westerners?  How does domestic tourism help them?     

Below some interesting lines from Pattaya Mail - link below. It confirms what I see too - not many bars care about any regulations. But there are still no customers. And now some bar owners want to extend the opening times (legally - not all bars care anyway). But I doubt that this will bring much more business if a bar has been almost or even completely empty the whole night. Bars are not the only ones suffering. But how do you want to change this? You can't force Thais to go to places that are made for foreigners. 

 

"Amporn Kaewsang, a Walking Street bar owner, is urging the government to lift the legal requirement that bars close and end alcohol sales at midnight, arguing it will help operators.

 

But Pattaya police – despite claims by police chief Pol. Col. Khemmarin Pissamai to be enforcing the government’s list of 21 disease-control measures – already are letting bars stay open until 2 a.m. and ignoring nearly all of the 21 items, so it’s unclear how changing the wording of the law would change the reality on the ground."

 

https://www.pattayamail.com/news/pattaya-bar-owners-wonder-how-long-they-can-survive-313856

[Leaver]

2 minutes ago, Oldie said:

But how do you want to change this? You can't force Thais to go to places that are made for foreigners. 

I never suggested to force anything.  Merely asked the question, how does a busy Thai BBQ restaurant on the weekend, help an Italian restaurant next door, for example.

 

Any revenue coming in at the moment is good, but how does busy Thai establishments on weekends help businesses catering for westerners, which in turn gives expats choice and variety?    

[Oldie]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I never suggested to force anything.  Merely asked the question, how does a busy Thai BBQ restaurant on the weekend, help an Italian restaurant next door, for example.

 

Any revenue coming in at the moment is good, but how does busy Thai establishments on weekends help businesses catering for westerners, which in turn gives expats choice and variety?    

The busy restaurant catering for Thais has nothing to do with the Italian restaurant. But what do you want to do change? If there are not enough customers liking Italian, Indian or whatever foreign food - what do you want to change? And massage is suffering, tailors are suffering, dentists are suffering, hospitals are suffering, hotels are suffering and, and. An endless list. It is impossible for the government to support everyone suffering. 

[ChipButty]

3 minutes ago, Oldie said:

 dentists are suffering, hospitals are suffering, 

You are right but I guess people dont think of these kind of business's I do know a dentist in Udon Thanni had to close down and a doctor we know was saying the same no work coming from the private hospitals only government and no overtime

[Peterw42]

43 minutes ago, Leaver said:

We have all seen the build up, the crowds, and the exodus before.  It's good for business here,  but are you suggesting they can survive on it? 

 

If so, that's great for some businesses catering for Thai's, but what about businesses catering for westerners?  How does domestic tourism help them?     

Not suggesting its a replacement for foreign tourists or helps the western catering places but its better than no tourism. In conjunction with the 40% off thing, its bringing some money into the local economy. And its money into the street level economy, food vendors, beach massage, small guesthouses etc. 

Its just that many expats dont even see it or acknowledge it. If its not soi 6 its not happening.

 

[Leaver]

7 minutes ago, Oldie said:

The busy restaurant catering for Thais has nothing to do with the Italian restaurant. But what do you want to do change? If there are not enough customers liking Italian, Indian or whatever foreign food - what do you want to change? And massage is suffering, tailors are suffering, dentists are suffering, hospitals are suffering, hotels are suffering and, and. An endless list. It is impossible for the government to support everyone suffering. 

Sure, most businesses around the world are suffering.  Nothing new there.  

 

As for what to change, I have commented on the importance of Thai landlords recognising the need for rent reductions, to keep their tenant, which keeps the Italian restaurant open for us all, for example.  

 

Time will tell if Thai landlords offer assistance.  

[Leaver]

31 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Not suggesting its a replacement for foreign tourists or helps the western catering places but its better than no tourism. In conjunction with the 40% off thing, its bringing some money into the local economy. And its money into the street level economy, food vendors, beach massage, small guesthouses etc. 

Its just that many expats dont even see it or acknowledge it. If its not soi 6 its not happening.

 

I agree with you 110%.  Any cash injection into the local Pattaya economy is a good thing. 

 

I suppose we are seeing the divide between domestic Thai tourism and western tourism, financially, and culturally.

 

Unfortunately, domestic tourism will not do much for businesses catering for western tourists and expats, which means many of the place expats frequent see no cash injection from domestic tourism, except for a few farang moving about the country.  

 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Leaver

[blackcab]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

If so, that's great for some businesses catering for Thai's, but what about businesses catering for westerners?  How does domestic tourism help them?

Saw a Thai family having dinner in the hungry hippo yesterday.

[ChipButty]

13 hours ago, Leaver said:

Sure, most businesses around the world are suffering.  Nothing new there.  

 

As for what to change, I have commented on the importance of Thai landlords recognising the need for rent reductions, to keep their tenant, which keeps the Italian restaurant open for us all, for example.  

 

Time will tell if Thai landlords offer assistance.  

Where I live some have, most have not

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:12 AM, Leaver said:

My comments are not based on compassion, they are based on economic reality. 

 

It makes no sense to kick out tourists, at a time when you have no tourists, and don't look like getting any tourists in the foreseeable future.

 

Is the Thai government really that worried about their lousy visa fees?

Thai immigration policy isn't set with the benefit to farangs in mind. Perhaps they treat us badly because western countries make it so hard for Thai women to holiday there with their boyfriends.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Leaver said:

I never suggested to force anything.  Merely asked the question, how does a busy Thai BBQ restaurant on the weekend, help an Italian restaurant next door, for example.

 

Any revenue coming in at the moment is good, but how does busy Thai establishments on weekends help businesses catering for westerners, which in turn gives expats choice and variety?    

It's not up to the Thai restaurant to help the Italian restaurant. Either the Italian restaurant changes to attract the customers there are around, or it goes broke. If anyone doesn't like that, move to a socialist country.

[Peterw42]

Jomtien Beach yesterday afternoon (06//09)

 

 

[BigStar]

On 9/5/2020 at 11:54 PM, Susco said:

It is an extra long weekend, with tollways free at al, so it quite normal that Pattaya is busy.

Excellent progress! And it's a long weekend owing to substitution days. Now for extra credit: substitution for which holiday?????‍????

 

No, TAT: TVF has determined that ABSOLUTELY FINALLY DEAD Pattaya is never busy nowadays, as Thai tourists do not and cannot exist.

 

Lemme remind you. Any Thais you quite inadvertently happen to stumble upon outside a beer bar are merely eating som tum and drinking Sangsom. Oh, and noodles from street vendors. They never, ever eat in restos where any Western food is served. Having no money—only the beneficent Golden Egg Layers, those pillars of the Thai economy, have money—they go to shopping malls only to enjoy free aircon. Hence no shoppers have ever been seen in Thai mall: malls exist only to launder money.

 

Thais can’t possibly afford to stay in hotels such as the luxurious fan rooms on Soi Buakhao with our Big Spenders, either. Definitely not in their own apartments & condos. Inconceivable.

 

So: no Thai tourists. Ever. Now, back in the West, of course, domestic tourism IS a thing as everybody well knows and it DOES generate economic development. Otherwise, where would Blackpool be, one our treasures. But NOT in Thailand. That would imply the Golden Egg Layers aren't the pillars of the Thai economy they need to believe they are.

Hence I dunno why you’ve not expressed SHOCKED indignation at how incredibly desperate Hooters has become owing to the INSANE Thai Immigration policies. This is truly a new low in marketing: hiring a lot of farang to disguise themselves as Thais while eating in Hooters!

 

As I noted, since it opened, TVF has allowed only stupid farang tourists FOB with more money than sense to eat that horrible vastly overpriced "food." They wouldn't know to take advantage of the beer discounts, either.

 

Shrewd, street-savvy, self-respecting farang know to eat & drink only at TVF Poster Approved™ places like Beer Garden. Ah!

 

On 9/5/2020 at 11:54 PM, Susco said:

In case you are not aware, there are 7 days in a week, and 52 weekends in a year, of which only few are long holiday weekends.

Whilst I can sympathize with such righteous pride in one’s own scholarly accomplishment, recent and hard-won perhaps, it’s just plain bad manners to go around tooting your own horn like that and schoolmarming, innit? Where’s the vaunted Brit understatement & self-deprecation when needed? Might be one o' them posh habits, though.

 

On 9/5/2020 at 11:54 PM, Susco said:

Please report back, with pictures, from the very same place on Wednesday 9 September, if they are still so busy

The usual whataboutism is just as a fallacious a form of argument here as it is elsewhere. The funniest application on TVF, however, is seen in the defense of farang criminals—well, “our lads,” not Americans—in the contention that farang crime in Thailand is quite OK and should be ignored as long as the Red Bull heir is out there.????

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by BigStar