if you're on a long-time visa, do you have to become a doormat?

[BananaBandit]

I specify 'long-time' visas because people on such visas (have usually spent/deposited a lot of money here and/or have loved ones here) typically have quite a bit to lose if they get in trouble in this country. 

 

I'm not old enough for retirement visa, and I'm thinking about maybe getting married officially in the future. But part of me hesitates for the reason that....i fear any little dispute with someone  (a person driving recklessly on sidewalks, blatantly cutting in line, etc.)  can risk a situation whereby there's police involvement and possible charges and expulsion...and then i might lose whatever i've spent/deposited here (along with my beloved). 

 

Is there a high chance of getting banished from this country over a two-bit fistfight? 

 

Or are you usually going to be able to avoid getting banished unless you're clearly up to no good (involved with criminal elements) ?

 

I have no interest in the places where trouble often happens (bars, clubs, snooker joints, etc).  But people (in all countries) are capable of acting like twerps at any location, and I don't want to have to be a doormat for people who choose to act in a distasteful way.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

Is there a high chance of getting banished from this country over a two-bit fistfight?

Over my years I've had 2 fights 1 helping a friend who was being attacked by ya-baa nutter and one at defending myself, I'm still here.

[mstevens]

I think this is a really excellent topic. There is no guarantee that any foreigner living in Thailand can remain there indefinitely unless they have acquired Thai nationality - which very few do.

 

My worry was always what would happen if I unwittingly got in to a dispute with a Thai would not back down. Let's say something simple like they backed their car in to yours, and then tried to say it was your fault and went all out to "get you". Thais know foreigners living in the country are vulnerable in this respect and given that the justice system does not work as one might expect, the risk is real. Sure, it's not likely to happen, but there IS a risk.

 

I lived in Thailand for some years before returning home. The problem I had is that I never felt entirely secure when I was living there. There was always that small voice in the back of my head telling me that if I had bad luck and someone decided they didn't like me then I could be shown the door. I just can't live that way. I know some people dismiss the idea but I prefer to be a realist. It is one of the main reasons I prefer to live in my own country and return to Thailand for a holiday every so often.

[rumak]

the easiest way to avoid physical confrontations is to stay home and spend all your time on internet forums.    also  limit interactions with humans to activities such as posting on Facebook , texting, sending emojis to express your superiority when challenged ,  etc.

i never actually talk to anyone , all "conversations"  are done by text .  keeps emotions simple and allows one to eat without ever looking at the person you might be with.  

Being in a foreign country is great as one can just feign not understanding anything ,  pass a few bucks baht around when in a pickle ,  and oh,  what a relief now to be able to wear a mask at

all times to hide our facial expressions. 

i have amazon, lazada, grab ,  dating sites, porn sites,  and google .   what's not to like ??

you silly complainers :   get  a life !

[n00dle]

This is really a ridiculous.

 

Why would you live in such fear?

[crowned]

as far as traffic issues are concerned, my suggestion is dash cams fitted front and back. That way, you hopefully have a video record to prove exactly what has happened, instead of just the other person's word against yours. Of course, if it's your fault......

[shy coconut]

1 hour ago, mstevens said:

I think this is a really excellent topic. There is no guarantee that any foreigner living in Thailand can remain there indefinitely unless they have acquired Thai nationality - which very few do.

 

My worry was always what would happen if I unwittingly got in to a dispute with a Thai would not back down. Let's say something simple like they backed their car in to yours, and then tried to say it was your fault and went all out to "get you". Thais know foreigners living in the country are vulnerable in this respect and given that the justice system does not work as one might expect, the risk is real. Sure, it's not likely to happen, but there IS a risk.

 

I lived in Thailand for some years before returning home. The problem I had is that I never felt entirely secure when I was living there. There was always that small voice in the back of my head telling me that if I had bad luck and someone decided they didn't like me then I could be shown the door. I just can't live that way. I know some people dismiss the idea but I prefer to be a realist. It is one of the main reasons I prefer to live in my own country and return to Thailand for a holiday every so often.

So you left Thailand because a voice inside your head told you something bad might happen......

[meechai]

6 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

if you're on a long-time visa, do you have to become a doormat?

 

What do you mean "become"?  You were always a person with zero rights living in a pseudo dictatorship

For most "visitors" they do not get used as said doormat but they were always available to be used. 

If or when Somchia decides to pull the trigger you will become what you always were ......a coconut girl in a high fashion world ????

[Lacessit]

Can't say I have had any serious problems in Thailand. I drive defensively, keep 80% of my assets in Australia, don't own anything apart from an elderly car and scooter, both bought secondhand. Cash I have here can be converted to other currencies in a day or two, or wired out.

I really don't care if other people consider me a doormat, I enjoy life here. Money talks here just as well as anywhere else, perhaps better.

[scammed]

definitely truths in what OP is on to

[pagan1]

As someone once said ' There is nothing to fear except fear itself'.  I would suggest that those deported from Thailand fall into those that commit a crime or abuse immigration laws. You can probably count the number of 'innocent' deportees on one hand over the past 10 yrs. Some people are just not able to live in any country and spend their 'life' in hiding and fear. i knew an American guy who spent 3 yrs in Brazil who never went out except to be driven to work daily........ if you want to live your life in fear then do it but don't scaremonger and suggest the probability of an incident is higher than it is. You are more likely to be struck by lightning or win the lottery than be deported or harmed 

[Saltire]

I see where the OP is coming from.

 

In any 'dispute' the odds are stacked in favour of the Thai I have no doubt. I don't live in fear but am more careful than I would be back home regards sticking my head above the parapet.

 

If a neighbour or someone has it in for you and makes false accusations against you, there is indeed a chance of it escalating. Unlikely but I am sure this thread will show a few examples, such as being accused of 'working' on a retirement extension.

 

It's not just foreigners in the farang sense, as neighbouring migrant workers also have this issue. I ive in a village that is 70% non-Thai, and as the wife says about this, 'No Thai, never win'.

 

 

 

 

[mstevens]

7 hours ago, shy coconut said:

So you left Thailand because a voice inside your head told you something bad might happen......

 

Putting it like that is simply being smart-assed and lacks nuance. I am at a stage i my life when peace of mind and security are more important, which was one of many reasons I chose to move back home.

[BritManToo]

13 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

I'm not old enough for retirement visa, and I'm thinking about maybe getting married officially in the future. But part of me hesitates for the reason that....i fear any little dispute with someone  (a person driving recklessly on sidewalks, blatantly cutting in line, etc.)  can risk a situation whereby there's police involvement and possible charges and expulsion...and then i might lose whatever i've spent/deposited here (along with my beloved). 

They tend not to deport married foreigners.

But single guys are fair game.

 

Why the need to spend loads of dosh here?

Rent or get her to buy with a 90% mortgage then your exposure is a minimum.

My entire investment in Thailand, about 600kbht (300k as deposit on the house, 150k rusty pickup, + 3 m/cs) plus running expenses over the past 11-12 years (total 50k/year 'investment' plus 40k/month living costs).

 

I can walk away from that, it's no big deal.

As for marriage and relationships, never value a woman higher than 1,500bht a go.

Edited October 25, 2020 by BritManToo

[donnacha]

14 hours ago, BananaBandit said:

i fear any little dispute with someone  (a person driving recklessly on sidewalks, blatantly cutting in line, etc.)  can risk a situation whereby there's police involvement and possible charges and expulsion

I noticed pretty quickly that the expats who get into those sorts of situations always have entirely reasonable explanations for why they happened, and I have no reason to doubt their sincerity ... except that it always seems to happen, again and again, to the same guys, while most of us have drifted through decades here with no such experiences.

Part of that is realizing that it is not our job to make other people behave a certain way. If someone behaves like a dick, you avoid them and get on with all the far more interesting things you need to do that day. If someone cuts in line, consider that you are probably looking at someone with serious problems, possibly even just waiting for the excuse to get into a fight. Do you, with your comparatively wonderful life, really want to get dragged down into their Hell? 

Unless you put yourself in situations where friction is likely to arise, the vast majority of people here are obliging and surprisingly decent. Frankly, you have to be a bit of a dick to get into a bad situation OR have a poor ability to recognize when someone else is mentally troubled, and that includes romantic partners. Crazy can be entertaining and fun but, past your twenties, you need to grow up a bit, start to think longer term, and realize that the risks simply aren't worth it.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by donnacha

[finnsk]

If you want to stay in a third world country, you can not expect the same safenes as in the western world. That you had to understand and live with, if you want your life here.

 

You shall not be a doormat, but you had to show good behaviour and respect to the local culture.

 

I had one experience with the police, in an traffic accident. I must brake hard for a young thai on a little motorbike, who was playing on the bike and then was falling just in the front of my car, I blocked the brakes and get 4 sleeping thai cars up in my ash. All the thai drivers think I was driving wrong, I did not go in to any discussions, I said to them lets wait the police and the insurance. The insurance guy was fair, but the police would not talk anything, it was clear that they waited that the farrang should accept to pay what the assurance would not pay. Then I suggest to go to the policestation and write a report for court use, then we moved to the policestation and the police was not happy to begin to write, but they can not denie it even you are a farrang, after two-three hours talk the police began to write the report, and began to talk about who was guilty in the accident. After three hours they began to talk that the farrang was not guilty in the accident, it was clear they where not happy about this and they would have being much more happy if I had taken the blame for the accident without writing any thing.

 

My point is: You can not expect fairness from the police as a farrang. Do not get upset but be patient and persistent in talks with the police. Have some minimum knowledge about how law, court and police works in the country you live in. Have control over what you are doing and avoid stupid situations with Thais, some times better to look the other way or give the other cheek.

[1FinickyOne]

You are being a bit paranoid... general rule I have seen is that if you don't get in fights or trouble in other countries, you won't here either... 

 

I have been here a long time and never known anyone to run into the type of problems you mention... relax and enjoy. 

[Leaver]

OP, the 1 year visa gives you no more rights than a tourists entering Thailand for their first time on a 30 day visa exemption stamp.

 

You could be married here, have 2 kids, a business that employs Thai staff, a house, a car etc, but you have no more rights than a tourists entering for their first time on a 30 day exemption stamp.  What does that tell you about the stability a 1 year visa offers here?

 

Indeed, this matter was raised some time ago in a different thread, and after some debate, it was agreed that the only thing a 1 year visa gives you over a 30 day visa exemption stamp was you could get a 5 year driving license over a 1 year license.  Such luxury, for all the hoops for a 1 year license.  

 

Keep your assets and cash in your home country and transfer to Thailand monthly living expenses.  Also, explore the region and have a Plan B as an alternative to Thailand.  You very well may need it in the future.  

 

You will only be a doormat if you allow yourself to be.

 

I make Thailand work for me, not the other way around.     

[thaibeachlovers]

I spent many decades visiting and living in LOS. However I always understood that I was running a risk that something would go wrong and I could end up in the slammer or worse. It was a risk I understood and accepted.

 

Many times I did something and realised later that it could have gone very wrong for me.

 

However, life's a risk wherever we are, and LOS was a lot more fun than anywhere else I'd been, so worth it.

 

If I have to regret anything about living in LOS, it's only that I passed up on a few chances with really cute girls, and married the wrong one.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

You could be married here, have 2 kids, a business that employs Thai staff, a house, a car etc, but you have no more rights than a tourists entering for their first time on a 30 day exemption stamp.  What does that tell you about the stability a 1 year visa offers here?

and yet........................

So many posters that think because they spend a few thousand in LOS that it makes them somehow special and Thailand should be about THEM.

[Jack Hna]

I wonder why the poster thinks he will become a doormat. 

 

If you regularly get sparked out in your home country and treated like a door mat. Expect much worse here.

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

If I have to regret anything about living in LOS, it's only that I passed up on a few chances with really cute girls, and married the wrong one.

I have no cause to regret the relationship I am currently in with my Thai GF of 7 years.

OTOH, I have a lot of reasons with dollar signs on them, and more, to regret my two long-term relationships in Australia.

It is what it is, swings and roundabouts.

Cute works with me, also honesty. Although BMT says it's an oxymoron.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I have no cause to regret the relationship I am currently in with my Thai GF of 7 years.

OTOH, I have a lot of reasons with dollar signs on them, and more, to regret my two long-term relationships in Australia.

It is what it is, swings and roundabouts.

Cute works with me, also honesty. Although BMT says it's an oxymoron.

I don't know if my Thai ex wife lied to me about everything, but it was certainly a lot.

She was quite cute, when she was nice, though those periods became less as time went by.

 

BTW, my regrets with certain girls wasn't with an eye to the long term, if you know what I mean, as I was not interested in getting married to a Thai when I had to work elsewhere.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know if my Thai ex wife lied to me about everything, but it was certainly a lot.

She was quite cute, when she was nice, though those periods became less as time went by.

 

BTW, my regrets with certain girls wasn't with an eye to the long term, if you know what I mean, as I was not interested in getting married to a Thai when I had to work elsewhere.

I came to Thailand thinking only in terms of very short-term relationships, my GF convinced me otherwise.

Perhaps I am the personality type that prefers permanency. Others might say I'm a glutton for punishment.

[Old Croc]

If you decide to live long term in any country where you don't qualify for citizenship, you will always be at some risk of being ejected if you become involved in a serious police or civil situation or if Immigration rules change drastically.

 If you cannot abide even the small likelihood that such an event may happen, you really should stay safely in home country and never try to live permanently in any country on a temporary visa.  Thailand makes it easier to stay long term than almost any other relatively attractive and civilized country. That's why we flock here. Virtually all other similar countries will not allow de-facto residence on tourist visas. Look at the rules in your own country. Most problems here can be solved with the ubiquitous backhander. Cheap at half the price.

 

I consider Thailand to be one of the safest countries I've spent time in, and don't feel unsafe virtually anywhere. Of course, I never get on a motorbike. If you are scared of what may happen with your personal safety, don't risk it, stay at home.

If you are careless or naïve with your money just bring enough to get by here and leave the rest at home for your family to enjoy when you kick the bucket.

If you consider yourself to be a doormat, welcome to the male gender. You'll be treated much the same anywhere.

[n00dle]

On 10/25/2020 at 4:30 AM, meechai said:

 

If or when Somchia decides to pull the trigger you will become what you always were ......a coconut girl in a high fashion world ????

 

<deleted> does that even mean?

[BananaBandit]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

They tend not to deport married foreigners.

But single guys are fair game.

 

I currently have a Thai wife, married by village ceremony.  Might that carry any clout?   Or do you need the official amphur marriage?

[richard_smith237]

The Op makes a valid point, but based on fear of unlikely hyperbolic consequences....

 

Fist fights, accidents etc no one cares. 

 

That said, I’m sure there are circumstances whereby ones longevity in Thailand could be compromised - usually such actions also involve severe penalties and perhaps jail time before deportation. 

 

 

It's so easy to avoid any conflict here in Thailand. Not beach we are ‘doormats’ but because we do not over react in a juvenile manner. 

 

-------

 

I know of a couple of guys here who’ve been kicked out. 

One guy sent a death thread (via e-mail) to another who reported it to the police. 

The police checked out the guy who’d sent the threat and found he was on overstay. He reacted very aggressively when the police visited his house. He was arrested, placed in IDC for a day or two before being deported. 

 

Another guy was a complete tool, pinched the ‘wrong girls’ bottom. She filed charges with the Police. The case went to court. The guy was charged, by the time his case came to court he was on overstay and was deported immediately after the case. 

 

 

IMO: Getting kicked out is usually the result of ‘visa abuse’ (for whatever reasons, forced or otherwise) - the BiB and Immigration use visa issues for a quick result when ‘undesirables’ misbehave. 

 

For those on long term visas there is less to worry about when dealing with minor offences. Certainly not enough to worry about to make it something I’ve ever considered until this post. 

 

 

 

[Tagged]

On 10/25/2020 at 2:55 AM, mstevens said:

 

 

My worry was always what would happen if I unwittingly got in The problem I had is that I never felt entirely secure when I was living there. There was always that small voice in the back of my head telling me that if I had bad luck and someone decided they didn't like me then I could be shown the door. I just can't live that way. I know some people dismiss the idea but I prefer to be a realist. It is one of the main reasons I prefer to live in my own country and return to Thailand for a holiday every so often.

If you feel so, it is either one out of three or maybe all three. 

 

1. You are among wrong people And wrong places

2. You can not adopt and behave

3. You are getting paranoid. 

 

If my missus trow me out, It have to be I made a mistake choosing her, or I did not behave and been a good boy. 

 

The most important is, never to invest more than you can leave, as nr one rule. It not so complicated to have a good life here, but it takes some common sense and pink glasses to survive in a dysfunctional country like Thailand. However the best dictatorship in the world as far I know. 

 

[Ventenio]

YES!!!  You are a doormat.  This will never be your country, and anyone can record you and destroy all good deeds you have ever done!!!  You will be the worst farang ever, and you will be soo bitter about a country that really hates you!!!  What a way to live.  

 

get married, buy a house, and you can be kicked out immediately and lose it all.  and nobody will care, except you.

 

oh, it can happen...and these people never post on TV...they are back home broke and mad

 

how to avoid this?????

 

do what i do....  bring only 10 million to LOS, keep another 60 million baht back home, and then you have money to lose....

 

if poor in a country not your own....OMG....OMG........