Chiang Mai US Consulate Visa Denials

[Rick Bechard]

My wife and I have been married 3 years. She lived with me in Australia from Sept 2107 to December 2018 when I retired and we came to Thailand. I am a dual US/Australian citizen. She applied for a visitor visa to accompany to visit family in the US. It was denied at the Chiang Mai consulate. Only reason given, she did not convince the officer she had "compelling reasons to return". This is basically an ignorant decision considering if she and I wished to permanently reside in the US, we would simply do a full immigration application. We could also simply return to Australia if there was a desire to get out of Thailand. The application was filed 1 month before the appointment, yet there was no attempt to contact me regarding the validity of the application or questions about it. I think the officer in Chiang Mai has a negative bias.

 

I am hearing Chiang Mai is a problem for visa approvals, whereas a new application in Bangkok is will be approved. 

 

Moderators note. I have edited this post by removing a sentence which is contrary to forum rules.
5) You will not use Thaivisa as a platform to gather support to effect changes on religious, political, or governmental issues.
 

[TheFishman1]

Sounds very weird to me

[Cory1848]

My Thai girlfriend (not wife) got a US tourist visa in 2015 by applying in Chiang Mai; she owns a bank account, a house, a car, and her own (small) business. She entered the US that year (via US customs in Abu Dhabi -- an interesting arrangement) and only had to show a return ticket to Thailand. She then entered the US a second time on the same visa last year (2019), at LAX, and was grilled for twenty minutes by the immigration officer, although was eventually allowed to enter the country. I had thought, on that trip, it might be fun to do a day trip to Mexico at a border town, but was told that there was no way she’d be allowed back into the US across the Mexican border, even with a perfectly valid visa, and would be stranded in Mexico.

 

It seems that, under the current administration, it’s just more difficult for foreigners to enter the US, period. I don’t know if it will be easier in Bangkok, but it’s worth a try, and if she gets the visa, be prepared for more questioning when entering the US. Good luck!

Edited October 27, 2020 by Cory1848
clarification

[rumak]

9 minutes ago, Cory1848 said:

It seems that, under the current administration, it’s just more difficult for foreigners to enter the US, period. I don’t know if it will be easier in Bangkok, but it’s worth a try, and if she gets the visa, be prepared for more questioning when entering the US. Good luck!

 

It has been difficult for a very long time.    Thirty years ago i was married in Thailand.. and wife would have been denied a tourist visa except that i was allowed to present our case.  

Even more troubling was that before i was married i made a few trips to Thailand ,  and the "grilling" i got each time i returned to the states was not pleasant at all.  Why did they always pick me out ?

I was dressed casually but clean .  They just did not want to accept that someone in his thirties could have some money and not look like a suit and tie guy .  Their attitude , even that far back, was

certainly not a respectful one.

Edited October 27, 2020 by rumak

[nobodysfriend]

22 hours ago, Rick Bechard said:

She applied for a visitor visa to accompany to visit family in the US. It was denied at the Chiang Mai consulate.

Later on , she may well be thankful for that ....

Edited October 27, 2020 by nobodysfriend

[Cory1848]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

 

It has been difficult for a very long time.    Thirty years ago i was married in Thailand.. and wife would have been denied a tourist visa except that i was allowed to present our case.  

Even more troubling was that before i was married i made a few trips to Thailand ,  and the "grilling" i got each time i returned to the states was not pleasant at all.  Why did they always pick me out ?

I was dressed casually but clean .  They just did not want to accept that someone in his thirties could have some money and not look like a suit and tie guy .  Their attitude , even that far back, was

certainly not a respectful one.

I’ve had various experiences reentering the US, with immigration officers sometimes a bit gruff, but maybe they’re just having a bad day. The bottom line is, if your US passport is valid and you’re not on some criminal checklist, they have to let you in as a US citizen.

 

I’ve worked at US embassies overseas; one of the biggest concerns of consular officers (State Department) who interview visa applicants is that their visa approval will later get overturned by an immigration officer (INS, now Homeland Security) at a border entry point. State and DHS of course are following the exact same guidelines, but one can argue that their cultures differ, which can lead to problems.

[rumak]

Just now, Cory1848 said:

I’ve had various experiences reentering the US, with immigration officers sometimes a bit gruff, but maybe they’re just having a bad day.

 

That would be fine......... if the person receiving the "gruff"  could act in the same way .   

"You know, you are being a real jerk for treating me this way.   i know i should not say that, but you see,  I am having a bad day.    Made all the worse by having to put up with your BS "

 

just another case of us subjects having to buckle under to authority.     i assure you that i was always polite....but in a few cases they kept pushing.    the privilege of power

 

[1FinickyOne]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Rick Bechard said:

she did not convince the officer she had "compelling reasons to return"

This is not just for you - this is the standard for everyone... 

[bkk6060]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Rick Bechard said:

whereas a new application in Bangkok is will be approved. 

It is very rare I know of 20 guys who have tried with gf's or wives all rejected. This was within the past year.

The reason I have been advised is because historically, too many have gone, overstayed and never returned.

Of course, some will report how easy it was for their bargirl gf to get one.  Sure.

 

[chuang]

Many have complained about the thai immigration...they don't realize US is worse...

[moe666]

The first time I tried for my then girlfriend  no was the answer. Two years later and married and a different  agent doing the asking, welcome to america enjoy your trip

[khwaibah]

32 minutes ago, moe666 said:

The first time I tried for my then girlfriend  no was the answer. Two years later and married and a different  agent doing the asking, welcome to america enjoy your trip

 They are NOT agents never have been they are US Government employees that do ALL interviewing at the consult and they are US Citizens. Star Visa about 100 meter down  from the consulate is very good and reasonable and do not lie to you on your chance.

Edited October 27, 2020 by khwaibah

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, rumak said:

 

It has been difficult for a very long time.    Thirty years ago i was married in Thailand.. and wife would have been denied a tourist visa except that i was allowed to present our case.  

Even more troubling was that before i was married i made a few trips to Thailand ,  and the "grilling" i got each time i returned to the states was not pleasant at all.  Why did they always pick me out ?

I was dressed casually but clean .  They just did not want to accept that someone in his thirties could have some money and not look like a suit and tie guy .  Their attitude , even that far back, was

certainly not a respectful one.

Most trips returning to the USA as a citizen the Immigration Officer voiced comment was, “next”. I do remember the times when the Immigration Officer commented, “Welcome Home”. Little things go a long way ... sad observing the USA Today.

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

It is very rare I know of 20 guys who have tried with gf's or wives all rejected. This was within the past year.

The reason I have been advised is because historically, too many have gone, overstayed and never returned.

Of course, some will report how easy it was for their bargirl gf to get one.  Sure.

 

Maybe the difference was the bg status. Ex gf, nope not a bg, first trip 2013 (one year US Visa, Schengen VISA, Turkey Visa, India Visa). Second trip 2015 (10 Year US Visa). Circumstances are certainly taken into account and everyone’s circumstances vary. No trip planned until 2023 with new family (we will be married couple traveling with her Daughter). I anticipate no problems.

Edited October 27, 2020 by wwest5829

[rumak]

Just now, wwest5829 said:

Most trips returning to the USA as a citizen the Immigration Officer voiced comment was, “next”. I do remember the times when the Immigration Officer commented, “Welcome Home”. Little things go a long way ... sad observing the USA Today.

If that is you in your avatar,  i can see why you get such a nice greeting.  after i was late 40's,  travelling with my sweet family,  i had no problems. 

but looking a little "hippie ish  in my 30's ....... oh boy.    So much for the self proclaimed greatest democracy on earth,  where all men are judged equally.   I was treated like cรap 

 

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, moe666 said:

The first time I tried for my then girlfriend  no was the answer. Two years later and married and a different  agent doing the asking, welcome to america enjoy your trip

Not sure what you are talking about.

What is the "agent" reference?

[wwest5829]

41 minutes ago, rumak said:

If that is you in your avatar,  i can see why you get such a nice greeting.  after i was late 40's,  travelling with my sweet family,  i had no problems. 

but looking a little "hippie ish  in my 30's ....... oh boy.    So much for the self proclaimed greatest democracy on earth,  where all men are judged equally.   I was treated like cรap 

 

Yep, for better or worse, me at age 70. Arrived in retirement in 2011 At 66 kilos. Doctor off ice this week weighed in at 82 kilos. No doubt the scales are off ... 555. Back in my 30s I took a year to travel. Coming back into the US from Mexico in an aged VW Camper, I was disappointed at being waved through without questioning. I mean I had a beard, disheveled look ... I thought I looked sketchy! Guess they saw through it ...

Edited October 27, 2020 by wwest5829

[The Theory]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:07 AM, Rick Bechard said:

Only reason given, she did not convince the officer she had "compelling reasons to return".

 
Is she in 20s ?

[GinBoy2]

This issue comes up time after time.

 

Tourist visa's for Thai's are notoriously hard, mainly because they have a habit of overstaying, you only have to look at South Korea!

 

Then you get into a host of other issues that the CO grapples with, and of course age, especially for females plays a pretty big part.

 

Their greatest fear is the applicant will arrive and simply disappear into the Thai diaspora.

 

What I think is lost on many is that the US is home to the largest Thai expat population, over 300K, the next is South Korea, where the official figure is around 200K, although there are many more illegals.

 

I think we've had the discussion here too, that the total farang population in Thailand is only at best 200K.

 

So it's confused, probably not totally rational, but if I was a CO in an embassy or consulate I think I would understand the caution

[Rick Bechard]

On 10/27/2020 at 9:15 AM, Cory1848 said:

I’ve had various experiences reentering the US, with immigration officers sometimes a bit gruff, but maybe they’re just having a bad day. The bottom line is, if your US passport is valid and you’re not on some criminal checklist, they have to let you in as a US citizen.

 

I’ve worked at US embassies overseas; one of the biggest concerns of consular officers (State Department) who interview visa applicants is that their visa approval will later get overturned by an immigration officer (INS, now Homeland Security) at a border entry point. State and DHS of course are following the exact same guidelines, but one can argue that their cultures differ, which can lead to problems.

In reality, the Geneva Convention guarantees a citizen right of return, no matter the circumstances. I would suggest there is a common view that single men going often to Thailand do so on a sex holiday. But then.........

[Rick Bechard]

On 10/27/2020 at 5:07 PM, The Theory said:

 
Is she in 20s ?

40. Has a motel business, two cars and a 4 bedroom house. Never married before me and no kids. I probably didn't do a very complete job on the first application. This one is fully loaded and she will have all translated documents for her Bachelor and Masters degrees, her 6+ years working for the Bangkok Narcotics Bureau, business registration along with photos. Also photos of her and I while she lived with me in Australian from 2017 to 2019. Hoping that is enough.

[Rick Bechard]

59 minutes ago, Rick Bechard said:

40. Has a motel business, two cars and a 4 bedroom house. Never married before me and no kids. I probably didn't do a very complete job on the first application. This one is fully loaded and she will have all translated documents for her Bachelor and Masters degrees, her 6+ years working for the Bangkok Narcotics Bureau, business registration along with photos. Also photos of her and I while she lived with me in Australian from 2017 to 2019. Hoping that is enough.

Further to the story, as I pointed out to the consulate, I have dual US/Australian citizenship. If my wife had wanted to remain out of Thailand, we would have stayed in Australia and she would have gotten citizenship there in 1 more year. As for staying in the US, if we wanted to stay there, I would simply do an immigrant visa and be done with it. 

[Rick Bechard]

On 10/27/2020 at 2:04 PM, bkk6060 said:

Not sure what you are talking about.

What is the "agent" reference?

Agent was easier to type than consular officer.  ????

[Rick Bechard]

On 10/27/2020 at 7:51 AM, nobodysfriend said:

Later on , she may well be thankful for that ....

Yeah As I told a few people, there are more "compelling reasons to leave the US" than there are to stay. I lived in Australia from 2002 to 2019. I have been into emergency room a few times, admitted for bowel infection, lower leg infection and chest pains. Also had doctor ordered surgery for knee and cancer surgery at the top cancer research center. I never got a bill for any of those. Much better places to live than the US.

[The Theory]

1 hour ago, Rick Bechard said:

40. Has a motel business, two cars and a 4 bedroom house. Never married before me and no kids. I probably didn't do a very complete job on the first application. This one is fully loaded and she will have all translated documents for her Bachelor and Masters degrees, her 6+ years working for the Bangkok Narcotics Bureau, business registration along with photos. Also photos of her and I while she lived with me in Australian from 2017 to 2019. Hoping that is enough.

Perhaps next next time. 
good luck. 

[Rick Bechard]

48 minutes ago, The Theory said:

Perhaps next next time. 
good luck. 

Thanks. Thursday morning for both her visa and me a new passport. 

[Rick Bechard]

On 10/27/2020 at 10:39 AM, kenk24 said:

This is not just for you - this is the standard for everyone... 

Yeah I didn't feel special at all. But then having lived outside the US since 2002, I found no one else in the world thinks we are either.

 

The pointless point of the "compelling reason" argument is that as I understand it, what the embassy will grant is a 10 year visa/permit to appear at an immigration check point and request permission to enter. That permission and length of stay being at the discretion of the immigration officer. Now, it seems to me that somewhere between 1 and 10 years, those compelling reasons can disappear in a whiff of I don't know....a pandemic perhaps. A person can decide they no longer wish to be a business owner in Thailand and sell it, the house, the car. But the person can still fly to the US and most likely enter without immigration knowing they no longer have compelling reasons to return. 

 

Maybe it's just age, but I find the lack of deeper thinking on such things needing my attention.  ????

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

10 minutes ago, Rick Bechard said:

A person can decide they no longer wish to be a business owner in Thailand and sell it, the house, the car. But the person can still fly to the US and most likely enter without immigration knowing they no longer have compelling reasons to return. 

Not sure I get this? Who is 'the person' - is it a Thai person?

 

Before another visa is granted, they will need to go through the process again... maybe depending on type of visa... my GF came with me a couple of times on a tourist visa.. and yes, the length of stay is decided in USA, and we were given 6 months each time.. but not knowing made it difficult to buy a RT tkt... I just asked for 6 months when we arrived.. it can be frustrating as it is not an exact science... some of the process is discretionary... 

 

 

[thailand49]

Not ignorant nor do they have a bias against you I know this first hand whether you apply in Bangkok or not! 

 

As noted it is easier if time permits to just apply for a resident instead of a Tourist I was this point blank myself. See these agents are on a tight rope to follow the guidelines and that is review the application rarely unless you present contrary evidence at the interview the decision has already been made!

 

Based on your own posting there is already a contradiction the application is reviewed straight forward no left or right and most likely your wife said the same thing to confirm? In my opinion no indication should be given that you plan to move to the U.S. in the future!  From my I see you are the sole supporter of your wife, they are looking yes what will make her return to Thailand why because you are asking for a Tourist! 

 

They have a profile that majority applying are in the sex business once inside the U.S. it is impossible to track them down if they overstay and it funds are available all one has to do is get a lawyer and the case is held up for years and years cost to the courts which is to the citizens.

 

Now that the cat is out of the bag it will be pretty hard to reverse the decision when you apply again even in Bangkok.  At best you can and play dumb and say not understand but you mentioned that you live in Thailand now depending on your age if you already obtained a Retirement Extension and made Thailand your home normally this should be good a reason that she will return it did for my brother case. 

 

They don't need to know what your future holds you are applying for a Tourist the less you say the better. If you need a good Immigration lawyer just across from the BKK U.S. Embassy who has a reputation done number of cases for me family and friends. They are Thais but raised and school in the U.S. most like for cheap on the phone or email can give you a good indication as to how to go about getting your problem solved just PM me if not good luck!

[fordguy61mi]

I think they assume from the beginning that you’re trying to get to the US and never return and it’s up to you to convince them otherwise. It seems who they’re accompanied with or going to visit has no bearing.