Thai Banks now charging ATM fee, PLUS : A 5% transaction fee?

[Bradmeister]

Greetings and Salutations to all the Expats eking out an existence or trying to make ends meat! 

 

As of Today, November 3rd, 2020: The Bank of Ayutthaya (Did I spell that right?) D.B.A. Krungsri Bank, just attempted to hit me up an for additional transaction fee of 5%!  Ouch!

T.M.B. Bank, D.B.A. Thai Military Bank, initiated this policy change as of this past April, 2020 .  .....needless to say, I approached The Banks' Management who looked at me and said, that's the new policy for Ex Pats to Pay additionally to the 220 baht ATM use fee's. 

 

So, Now, 2 Banks that allow US Ex Pats to withdraw 30,000 Thai baht, (From a US Checking Account) are extorting an additional 5% Fee for the transaction....  I'm not a banker or an accountant: But this does affect my bottom line. Maybe it affects yours? 

 

Last week, 30k baht cost me about $986 USD.  Today at Krungsri, that same withdraw was $1036 UDS from the 5% fee. That's almost 50 bucks.  

 

Exchange Rate from last week to this week, even with the pending Election is nominal. 

 

Any comments, ideas or suggestions for approaching The Thai Central Bank, or shifting to a new way to receive funds (other than direct wire via swift code) would be helpful and appreciated. 

 

Sincerely,

 

Brad

 

 

[lopburi3]

Most of us use Transferwise to local account.  Easy/safe and good rates.  Also has option to use for immigration extension of stay proof.  

[richard_smith237]

How hard is it for a US citizen to open a Thai Bank Account here in Thailand ?

 

Op: You mentioned you don’t want to use SWIFT or Direct wire transfer. I’m curious why not, thats the simplest way to receive funds into a Thai Bank account. 

 

Failing that there is Western Union - but the exchange rates may not be great. 

 

There are also currency transfer sites such as TorFX which you can transfer to, then do the international transfer, and then transfer to your account. They’re reliable, I have used them from the middle east (once) but didn’t find them to be any cheaper than a regular bank transfer straight into my Thai account. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KannikaP]

11 minutes ago, Bradmeister said:

(Did I spell that right?)

Yes, but you spelt MEET wrong!

[Susco]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

How hard is it for a US citizen to open a Thai Bank Account here in Thailand ?

 

According to several threads on this forum, very hard at certain branches

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, Susco said:

 

According to several threads on this forum, very hard at certain branches

 

I wonder if thats the reason the Op doesn’t want to use a Wire Transfer is that he doesn’t have a local account. 

 

If thats the case, it would make sense to concentrate on securing a local account which makes things much easier.

 

 

-------

 

I recently got fed up with my Bank and decided to open a new account at a new bank. 

I don’t have a work permit (not working here) and was prepared to go to a few different branches until I found an accommodating branch. Fortunately, time wasn’t wasted and I opened the Bangkok Bank account at the first branch I stopped at (they wanted just a copy of my British Passport (and visa page), Yellow Tabien Baan and Marriage Certificate).

 

I did hear its a lot more difficult for folks from the US to open an account here - but I’ve also heard its possible and may require ’shopping around’.  

[madmitch]

22 minutes ago, Bradmeister said:

, ......that's the new policy for Ex Pats to Pay additionally to the 220 baht ATM use fee's. 

 

 

 

 

If you are drawing money from an overseas bank, how do they know you are an expat and not a tourist?

 

As other have said, you need to find a bank that will open an account for you.

[mtls2005]

20 hours ago, Bradmeister said:

Greetings and Salutations to all the Expats eking out an existence or trying to make ends meat! 

 

K.C. Burnt Ends fan here.

 

That said, can you describe your transaction in detail?

 

You withdrew X amount of THB at an ATM using a U.S.-based debit card, and your U.S. account was debited by Y amount of USD. Date?

 

For a Thai bank to charge 5%, they would have to dispense 28,500 THB on a 30,000 THB request. Is that what happened?

 

U.S. Bank name?

 

Based on what little info you've provided, my best guess is that your U.S. bank is charging the extra fee. In the U.S. a Cash Advance can incur a 5% fee, or a one0time fee of $10.

 

Not seeing any mention of a 5% fee on the most recent Krungsri (8 Sep 2020) service fee schedule. Just seeing the 220 Baht ATM fee.

[ChipButty]

I heard a while ago it got more difficult for US citizens to open bank accounts here in Thailand, maybe the way round this if you have a friend who is lawyer or an accountant they usually have good connections with a bank manager and will more than likely know where to open for you, and after that start to use Transferwise it's quicker and cheaper I used last week it took 30 minutes to land in my bank account, I can send you a link to PM for you to look at

[steven100]

Why don't you open a Citibank account .... I know from Citibank Australia there are no charge ATM withdrawals,  0% transfer fee ,  and no transaction fee for international transfers.  You could check if CB US is the same ...

Good rates,  only downfall is there are not many Citibank locations within Thailand, only a few in Bangkok. 

 

[mtls2005]

14 minutes ago, steven100 said:

You could check if CB US is the same ...

It's not.

 

 

34 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

I heard a while ago it got more difficult for US citizens to open bank accounts here in Thailand

I inferred that the OP has a local bank account as they mention 

 

21 hours ago, Bradmeister said:

shifting to a new way to receive funds (other than direct wire via swift code

 

but, yeah. If you don't have a local account get one. A Thai friend who is a customer may also be able to vouch/reference you to their bank/branch for an account opening. Again, many good threads on bank account opening here. Obviosuly sharing one's location would be good.

 

Transferwise, many informative threads here (Jobs, Economy sub-forum too), seems pretty good (good rate/low fees), based on all the reports here and on FB. If the OP is knocking out $1,000-ish per week at 220 a pop, definitely better to do one monthly TW transfer.

 

Some also arrange direct deposit/transfer of monthly pension payments.

 

Periodic ATM withdrawals are OK if you get the local ATM fee (150 - 220 THB) refunded.

 

If on a ext stay/ret-inc, then that requires additional planning re: monthly qualifying foreign transfers.

 

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Why don't you open a Citibank account .... I know from Citibank Australia there are no charge ATM withdrawals,  0% transfer fee ,  and no transaction fee for international transfers.  You could check if CB US is the same ...

Good rates,  only downfall is there are not many Citibank locations within Thailand, only a few in Bangkok. 

 

"Initial account opening balance is THB 1,000,000 or equivalent."

"Citi has 3 Retail Banking branches" which all appear to be in Bangkok.

AFAIK they are also not a member of the Thailand ATM pool so any use of ATM's other than their own would be charged.  

 

For most personal account users perhaps not a great option. 

[EricTh]

If the purpose is to transfer money from abroad, you should use Transferwise or Instarem.

 

If the purpose is to withdraw money from your local bank account, go to the teller.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

On 11/4/2020 at 9:14 AM, lopburi3 said:

"Initial account opening balance is THB 1,000,000 or equivalent."

"Citi has 3 Retail Banking branches" which all appear to be in Bangkok.

AFAIK they are also not a member of the Thailand ATM pool so any use of ATM's other than their own would be charged.  

 

For most personal account users perhaps not a great option. 

You are correct about the minimum opening amount and having few branches, but the use of Citibank Thailand's ATM card here in Bangkok does not attract a fee, at least not in my experience. Citibank Thailand has also recently changed their method of transferring funds locally and now it is done instantly instead of taking at least one working day.

 

Decades ago, when SCB and other Thai banks routinely held on to incoming wire transfers for 30 days or more before crediting them to an account, having an account at Citibank Thailand was handy as Citibank Thailand did not follow this practice.

 

I understand that one advantage of having a Citibank Thailand account is that having in excess of the IRS threshold ($200k at year-end or $300k at any time for most Americans resident abroad) for filing form 8938 with your tax return is not triggered because Citibank Thailand is a branch of the US parent company and therefore not a foreign financial institution. Still need to file FBAR of course.

 

But I agree. It would be more convenient to use a Thai bank for local banking services.

[moose7117]

thats Fonking unbelievable if i could get back that 5% i could pay for new shocks, preferably OHLINS, for my motorcycle.

[Pib]

OP,

   As mtls2005 already pointed out/asked, you left out key details like which foreign/US bank your card is issued by...does the card have a foreign transaction fee.   A fee of 3% is common among many banks.  This fee is charged by your card-issuing bank and not by Visa/Mastercard or the Thai bank....it's just a fee charged by your foreign bank; not the card network (i.e., Visa/Mastercard) and not the Thai bank.

 

   But I'm more leaning towards you were offer a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) transaction during your ATM withdraw which means the owner of that ATM is offering you their exchange rate which is usually 3 to 6% lower than the card-network rate.   

 

    If you saw any ATM screen during that transaction that showed/offered a specific "exchange rate/dollar amount" then that was a DCC transaction.  On that same ATM screen you should have been offered a selection to accept that offered conversion rate or you could select to continue without conversion (i.e., decline the offered rate).   

 

     If accepting the offer you get the rip-off DCC rate from that ATM owner...Krungsri in your case.   This can occur at ATMs in many countries....it's not just limited to Thai banks.   If you decline the offer then the transaction continues and you get the card network rate (i.e., Visa/Mastercard rate) minus any foreign transaction fee your card issuing bank may apply.  Remember many banks charge approx 3% foreign transaction fee but then there are some that do not....one bank that does not and often mentioned is Schwab Bank.  And Schwab Bank will also refund the Thai ATM fee of Bt220 for a foreign card. 

 

 And some of the more fee-evil banks like Bank of America and USBank for example which charge a foreign transaction fee of around 3%, that fee will still be charged even for a DCC transaction where the exchange occurred with the ATM owner.  That is, the ATM owner converted your dollars to baht using their DCC rate and then a dollar charge is forwarded to your US bank.  So, even thou a dollar charge arrives your foreign/US bank your foreign bank will still apply their foreign transaction fee "simply because it was a transaction done in a foreign bank regardless of currency...dollars or baht."  It's like getting hit twice with a fee.  Don't blame this on the Thai bank....this was all  done by your foreign card-issuing bank.

 

I have personally used two of my US Visa debits cards in an Krungsri ATM about a month ago to get Bt60K...Bt30K for each card...I received the full Visa exchange rate....this was my Schwab debit card and another US bank.   And also just a few weeks ago I used my Cap1 Mastercard debit card to do a counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance) at a Krungsri Bank branch.....once again I received the full Mastercard exchange rate.    None of this 5% fee stuff you are talking.

 

Your post was almost like a drive-by post missing key details and I expected you simply got offered a DCC transaction and accepted it (NEVER ACCEPT A DCC TRANSACTION because it will be a rate 3 to 6% lower than the Visa/Mastercard rate).....and/or your foreign bank charges a healthy foreign transaction fee. 

 

 

[Jeffrey346]

I use Chime Bank [US]  They do not charge any ATM fees and refund the B220 if your bank charges that fee.

BUT.. You must have the US bank do the conversion or you will be charged 3-5%

[rwill]

I am a US citizen.  I have accounts with SCB and KTB.  KTB however will not pay interest to a US citizen.  They don't want to deal with the reporting requirements.

 

Charles Schwab International(need 25K to open an account)  and State Department Federal Credit Union both allow you to use a foreign address and foreign phone number for your account.

Charles Schwab refunds fees on Debit cards with no limit, so you get the 220 baht back immediately, and charges no other fees.  They even rebate the fee they charge me for a wire transfer, so I can wire money for free.  

 

As others have mentioned never accept the exchange rate offered at the ATM.  You are paying far more than the 220 baht if you do.

[Enzian]

So I assume this OP post describes what is an anomaly for most of us here. I took 30K out of citi Bangkok at Asoke on Oct. 28 with a debit card from the US which cost about $968, the citi ATM charge here is only 200, which my bank in the US credits to me within a couple of days. But I agree we should always be on the lookout for what is going on month to month in this regard.

That citi bank branch at the Interchange bldg I like because there are always a lot of people around in the inner office in regular hours, and one two security guys at the ATMs in the outside hall 24 hours it looks like. And their machines do not take the card all the way in-you can always see it.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I use Chime Bank [US]  They do not charge any ATM fees and refund the B220 if your bank charges that fee.

BUT.. You must have the US bank do the conversion or you will be charged 3-5%

 

Unless we are talking different Chime Banks, they do not charge a foreign transaction fee like you said, but they do charge an ATM withdrawal fee of $2.50 if not using a MoneyPass ATM/Visa Plus Alliance ATM and they do "not" reimburse ATM Use Fees like the Thai bank ATM Bt220 fee for a foreign card.   I couldn't find any mention of reimbursing ATM Use Fees.

 

 

https://www.chime.com/policies/bancorp/deposit-account-agreement/

 

https://chime.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/221405228-What-are-the-fees-

[Jeffrey346]

9 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Unless we are talking different Chime Banks, they do not charge a foreign transaction fee like you said, but they do charge an ATM withdrawal fee of $2.50 if not using a MoneyPass ATM/Visa Plus Alliance ATM and they do "not" reimburse ATM Use Fees like the Thai bank ATM Bt220 fee for a foreign card.   I couldn't find any mention of reimbursing ATM Use Fees.

 

 

https://www.chime.com/policies/bancorp/deposit-account-agreement/

 

https://chime.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/221405228-What-are-the-fees-

I believe I said they do not charge an ATM fee. You are correct about using the in network ATMs which my bank [SCB] is.

The first time used the card here in Thailand I was charged B220. Chime automatically reimbursed me. Sorry for the confusion.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I believe I said they do not charge an ATM fee. You are correct about using the in network ATMs which my bank [SCB] is.

The first time used the card here in Thailand I was charged B220. Chime automatically reimbursed me. Sorry for the confusion.

 

The reimbursement is what I'm questioning as nowhere in the Chime terms of agreement/fee schedule (like I partially quoted earlier) that I can find talks anything about reimbursing ATM fees....Chime simply says when any ATM User fee occurs it will be charged to your account.   Also, this is the first time I've seen anywhere that Chime reimburses foreign ATM use fees.

 

The several debit cards that I have that do reimburse "all" ATM use fees (like the Schwab card) clearly state such in their terms of agreement/fee schedule that they will reimburse....in fact, it a big selling point for them, but I can't find such wording in the Chime terms of agreement/fee schedule.    

 

The Chime docs/website just says when you use an "out of network" ATM that Chime will charge a $2.50 fee and other ATM use fees will be charged to your acct---no mention of reimbursement.  

 

Now Chime says the Money Pass and Visa Plus Alliance ATM networks are "fee-free" with Chime.  I expect SCB (your Thai bank) interfaces with the Visa Plus Alliance and probably all Thai bank do.   

 

So, maybe where Chime says ATM use on those two networks is "fee-free" means the bank that owns that ATM may still charge a use fee (like the Bt220 fee) but we will reimburse fee.   But I can only assume that based on your experience because their terms of agreement/fee schedule does not say that.

 

And your experience in getting that reimbursement was that a one time thing....or do you regularly use your Chime debit card in Thailand and you are automatically reimbursed without having to bug Chime for reimbursement?

 

[Jeffrey346]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

The reimbursement is what I'm questioning as nowhere in the Chime terms of agreement/fee schedule (like I partially quoted earlier) that I can find talks anything about reimbursing ATM fees....Chime simply says when any ATM User fee occurs it will be charged to your account.   Also, this is the first time I've seen anywhere that Chime reimburses foreign ATM use fees.

 

The several debit cards that I have that do reimburse "all" ATM use fees (like the Schwab card) clearly state such in their terms of agreement/fee schedule that they will reimburse....in fact, it a big selling point for them, but I can't find such wording in the Chime terms of agreement/fee schedule.    

 

The Chime docs/website just says when you use an "out of network" ATM that Chime will charge a $2.50 fee and other ATM use fees will be charged to your acct---no mention of reimbursement.  

 

Now Chime says the Money Pass and Visa Plus Alliance ATM networks are "fee-free" with Chime.  I expect SCB (your Thai bank) interfaces with the Visa Plus Alliance and probably all Thai bank do.   

 

So, maybe where Chime says ATM use on those two networks is "fee-free" means the bank that owns that ATM may still charge a use fee (like the Bt220 fee) but we will reimburse fee.   But I can only assume that based on your experience because their terms of agreement/fee schedule does not say that.

 

And your experience in getting that reimbursement was that a one time thing....or do you regularly use your Chime debit card in Thailand and you are automatically reimbursed without having to bug Chime for reimbursement?

 

Y have to look closer next time.. It may have been a $2.50 fee that they reimbursed me tho I used an in network ATM.. Kinda strange

[patman30]

if you are limited to using an ATM
FYI
when the 150 baht fee was first introduced (which is now stated as 220 baht)
Aeon bank were the last bank to implement this
i was using their ATMs for about a year without any 150 baht fee
not even sure when they might have started to charge it
as like most here i soon just eneded up do trnafer to local account
might be worth a try if you can find an AEON ATM

[mtls2005]

On 11/7/2020 at 8:42 PM, patman30 said:

might be worth a try if you can find an AEON ATM

AEON ATMs still charge 150 THB, they present this message which requires you to accept/reject.

 

I did an AEON ATM WD last week, using a U.S.-based Debit Card.

 

Some U.S. FinServ companies reimburse this fee. For me it takes a day or three (weekend) for credit.

 

 

[Pib]

Yeap...Bt150 access fee when using a foreign card when using an AEON ATM.  And unless something has changed the max withdrawal amount per transaction is Bt20K....need more than that and you must do another transaction and incur another Bt150 fee. 

 

https://www.aeon.co.th/aeon/fees-payment/aeon-atm-access-fee/

[eyup]

Sent you a private message Brad 

[berrec]

[patman30]

On 11/10/2020 at 8:02 AM, mtls2005 said:

AEON ATMs still charge 150 THB, they present this message which requires you to accept/reject.

still beats 220 baht fee PLUS 5%
even if you can withdraw 30k a time
many UK banks are limited to 12k withdraws due to exchange rate
that was why i stopped using ATMs years ago as xe rate got worse

[Dick Warberg]

Have had similar experience with both Krungsri and SCB. Spoke with people at Krungsri and was told it was all my US bank. Did a trial at the ATM there to withdraw 1,000B and study the screens on the ATM thinking at any point I could cancel the transaction. Got to the screen that told me about the 5% exchange rate mark-up being offered, a choice of currencies, and currency conversion provided by Bank of Ayudhya PLC

At the bottom of this screen a choice was offered: Bottom RH button to accept this rate; bottom LH button to not accept. For my previous experience with this I had just automatically hit the RH button since I wanted the cash. This time I hit the LH button thinking I would get a screen asking me if I wanted another service or wished to cancel the transaction. Out pops 1000 B and a transaction slip of old showing just the 1000B and the 220 B fee. Currently awaiting the transaction to be show up on my account but fully expect it to be at the usual, no mark-up, exchange rate.