Trump lawyer Giuliani claims voter 'fraud' in long-shot Pennsylvania challenge

[webfact]

Trump lawyer Giuliani claims voter 'fraud' in long-shot Pennsylvania challenge

By Jan Wolfe and Brad Heath

 

U.S. President Donald Trump plays golf at the Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Virginia, U.S., November 15, 2020. REUTERS/Joshua Roberts/Files

 

(Reuters) - Donald Trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani told a judge on Tuesday in the president's suit seeking to block President-elect Joe Biden from being certified as the victor in Pennsylvania that there was widespread national voting fraud but offered no evidence in the long-shot challenge to Trump's election loss.

 

Lawyers for Pennsylvania rejected Giuliani's fraud allegations and asked U.S. District Judge Matthew Brann in a federal court hearing in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, to throw out Trump's lawsuit.

 

A loss in the case would likely doom Trump's already-remote prospects of altering the election's outcome.

 

As the hearing unfolded, Pennsylvania's highest state court issued a ruling against Trump's campaign in a separate lawsuit that could hobble his case before Brann.

 

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that the elections board in Philadelphia, the state's largest city, acted reasonably in keeping Trump campaign observers behind barricades and 15 feet (4.5 meters) away from counting tables, rejecting an appeal from Trump's campaign.

 

During the federal court hearing, Giuliani, a former New York City mayor and senior federal prosecutor who has not been a courtroom regular for decades, told Brann there was "widespread, nationwide voter fraud" in the Nov. 3 election, but provided no evidence to back up that claim.

 

Daniel Donovan, a lawyer for Pennsylvania's top election official, said Trump's campaign did not allege irregularities that would change the outcome in the state. Donovan called the state's handling of the election during a pandemic a success. Donovan argued that Trump's campaign was asking a federal court to "micromanage" routine differences in county practices.

 

Giuliani said there was a history of voter fraud in large U.S. cities, adding, without offering evidence, that the expansion of mail-in voting in 2020 allowed officials to take advantage of a public health crisis, the coronavirus pandemic.

 

Donovan said the Trump campaign's alleged injuries are "speculative" and "cannot give them standing in federal court."

 

The Trump campaign on Sunday narrowed the case to focus on a claim that voters in the state were improperly allowed to fix ballots that had been rejected because of technical errors such as missing a "secrecy envelope."

 

Pennsylvania officials have said a small number of ballots were fixed. Trump's campaign, however, is asking Brann to halt certification of Biden's victory in the state. Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar is due to certify the election results next Monday, meaning Brann is expected to rule quickly.

 

Trump's campaign said Democratic-leaning counties unlawfully identified mail-in ballots before Election Day that had defects so that voters could fix, or "cure," them. Pennsylvania officials said all of the state's counties were permitted to inform residents if their mail-in ballots were deficient, even if it was not mandatory for them to do so.

 

Biden, due to take office on Jan. 20, is projected to have won the state by more than 70,000 votes, giving him 49.9% of the state's votes to 48.8% for Trump.

 

Hours before the hearing, Brann allowed Giuliani to formally appear in the case. Trump wrote on Twitter on Saturday that Giuliani was spearheading a new team to pursue the campaign's legal fight.

 

Trump, the first U.S. president to lose a re-election bid since 1992, has called the election "rigged," has made unsubstantiated claims of widespread voting fraud and has falsely claimed victory. State election officials around the country have said they have found no such fraud.

 

Biden clinched the election by winning Pennsylvania to put him over the 270 state-by-state electoral votes needed. Biden, a Democrat, won 306 Electoral College votes overall to the Republican Trumps 232, Edison Research said on Friday.

 

Brann at one point paused the hearing due to technical problems with an audio feed by telephone of the proceedings.

 

The Trump campaign has had difficulty retaining legal counsel to take on its post-election challenges including the Pennsylvania case. On Monday, three lawyers representing the campaign asked to withdraw from the case, saying the campaign consented to the move but offering little explanation. Brann allowed two of the three to drop out.

 

The campaign and Trump supporters have filed lawsuits in multiple states that legal experts have said stand little chance of changing the election outcome. A senior Biden legal adviser has dismissed the litigation as "theatrics, not really lawsuits."

 

(Reporting by Jan Wolfe abd Brad Heath; Additional reporting by Tom Hals and Nate Raymond; Editing by Will Dunham, Lincoln Feast, Howard Goller and Noeleen Walder)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-18

 

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[Scott]

Trolling graphic removed.   It is a discussion forum.  

 

[Credo]

He knows full well he will lose and the strategy is to appeal and get it in front of the Supreme Court.  

 

[ezzra]

Grasping at straws, the die is cast and only fools and horses  would think that there's a any hope for trump to "win" the election, maybe this Giuliani guy need to meet Borat again to explain to him that all IS lost...

[Boon Mee]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

He knows full well he will lose and the strategy is to appeal and get it in front of the Supreme Court.  

 

Where he'll win! ???? 

[bendejo]

Giuliani Is Said to Seek $20,000 a Day Payment for Trump Legal Work

 

So let's see, 65 days to inauguration, that's $1.3 million (minus holidays, and plus expenses, filing fees, paralegals, baksheesh, etc). 

Getting DT to pay up, well, he may have to hold Barron hostage or something.

 

Maybe he should start in Georgia, or South Carolina, where there is a US senator attempting to upset the ballots in other states.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by bendejo

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Where he'll win! ???? 

I very much doubt they'll even hear the case.

[Chomper Higgot]

This is going beyond comedy and borders on finding laughs out of mocking the afflicted.

 

Grown men putting their already tattered reputations up for ridicule by making pleas to the courts without evidence.

 

Other adults backing this transparent lunacy in an attempt to prop up the whining loser.

 

63 more days of this, then comes the reckoning.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

Right after election night, the Trumpkins were furiously posting four videos:

 

1) Someone was supposedly looking at ballots, checking if they were Trump, and tossing them in the trash.
2) Distraught Trump supporters with flashlights were sneaking into election office dumpsters, and fishing these ballots out.
3) Observation windows to the counting areas were being covered.
4) Poll workers were going over ballots with markers, supposedly changing votes to Biden.

None of these were substantiated. The last one was debunked. They were ballots rejected by the machines, unclear votes being gone over again in marker. Were they changed to Biden? No evidence.

 

So now, what is Trump's $20k/day lawyer Mr. Giuliani going to court with, claiming "widespread fraud"? None of the above. The only thing he's got are the observers.

 

Were they allowed in the room? Yes. Could they see the ballots being counted? Yes. The only complaint is distance. How close do they want them? They cannot be breathing down the workers' necks. The cases are being dismissed.

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Where he'll win! ???? 

It's already been said that the supreme court wants no part in this farce. How can you dare go to the supreme court without evidence on the word of a man devoid of all sense of reality fearing that he will soon end up in court himself when he finally loses office.

[Dumbastheycome]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Where he'll win! ???? 

How? If there is no evidence on which to make a ruling? I doubt any Justice would risk impeachment .

[TopDeadSenter]

Am I the only one noticing a change in narrative?

 

 Straight after the election the establishmentarian stance was, there is no voter fraud. PERIOD.

 

 Now the stance is, OK there was some isolated fraud and many irregularities but it is not enough to change the election result, and should not be investigated more.

 

31 minutes ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

Right after election night, the Trumpkins were furiously posting four videos:

 

3) Observation windows to the counting areas were being covered.
 

None of these were substantiated. 

 

 

Small correction to this. Nobody is denying the observation windows were covered up. They were. The contentious issue is whether they were covered up to stop legal observers from doing their job because dodgy practises were occurring(the conservative's stance), or whether the windows were covered because the vote counters felt "intimidated" by observers who were trying to do their job, of observing the ballot count(the left's stance).

[kamahele]

At this point, Rudy is far past the laughable point. How can he beat his press conference in front of Four Seasons Landscaping and next to the adult book store (sex shop)

[Katipo]

There are many adjectives that have already been used to describe Donald Trump. We can now add 'pathetic' to that list.

[Salerno]

Why so much hate for the noble art of landscaping and a healthy sexual appetite?  

[kamahele]

1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Am I the only one noticing a change in narrative?

 

 Straight after the election the establishmentarian stance was, there is no voter fraud. PERIOD.

 

 Now the stance is, OK there was some isolated fraud and many irregularities but it is not enough to change the election result, and should not be investigated more.

 

Small correction to this. Nobody is denying the observation windows were covered up. They were. The contentious issue is whether they were covered up to stop legal observers from doing their job because dodgy practises were occurring(the conservative's stance), or whether the windows were covered because the vote counters felt "intimidated" by observers who were trying to do their job, of observing the ballot count(the left's stance).

I think that "the left" and quite frankly, everyone in a position of authority that are dealing with vote counting in both parties agree there was no substantial fraud other than the isolated incidents such as the guy who tried to vote for Trump under his dead mother's name. In regards to the covered windows, we know what happened as it was filmed live. Pro Trump protesters, many with guns were trying to intimidate vote counters. Observers from both parties were there to observe. There was no fraud and attempt at fraud.

[Katipo]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Where he'll win! ???? 

 

lol, it'll never make it that far. His case is far to weak. Each challenge has either been thrown out for lack of evidence, of the potential numbers involved are so small it will not make any difference to the result, even in Georgia. 

[bendejo]

31 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

It's already been said that the supreme court wants no part in this farce. How can you dare go to the supreme court without evidence on the word of a man devoid of all sense of reality fearing that he will soon end up in court himself when he finally loses office.

Partisan loyalty.

I'm sure that the three he put on SCOTUS can feel his breath on the back of their necks.

This could be where we see what Roberts is really made of.

 

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Am I the only one noticing a change in narrative?

 

 Straight after the election the establishmentarian stance was, there is no voter fraud. PERIOD.

 

 Now the stance is, OK there was some isolated fraud and many irregularities but it is not enough to change the election result, and should not be investigated more.

 

Small correction to this. Nobody is denying the observation windows were covered up. They were. The contentious issue is whether they were covered up to stop legal observers from doing their job because dodgy practises were occurring(the conservative's stance), or whether the windows were covered because the vote counters felt "intimidated" by observers who were trying to do their job, of observing the ballot count(the left's stance).

They weren't officially sanctioned observers. Just a bunch of Trump supporters who showed up to protest.

 'Stop the count' protesters push toward door of Detroit ballot counting place

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/524532-stop-the-count-protesters-push-toward-door-of-detroit-ballot-counting

[tonray]

If Rudy were smart...he'd get payment up front...as Trump is very likely to stiff him on the bill

Edited November 18, 2020 by tonray

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Am I the only one noticing a change in narrative?

 

 Straight after the election the establishmentarian stance was, there is no voter fraud. PERIOD.

 

 Now the stance is, OK there was some isolated fraud and many irregularities but it is not enough to change the election result, and should not be investigated more.

 

Small correction to this. Nobody is denying the observation windows were covered up. They were. The contentious issue is whether they were covered up to stop legal observers from doing their job because dodgy practises were occurring(the conservative's stance), or whether the windows were covered because the vote counters felt "intimidated" by observers who were trying to do their job, of observing the ballot count(the left's stance).

The official  observers were inside  doing their job ! The windows were  covered to stop the distraction caused  by protesters , not  "observers",outside hammering on the windows. What reports by "Conservative" official observers inside that facility have there been of dodgy events? There is very clear  video evidence of the actions of the  mob outside and the very real risk of interference.

[Dumbastheycome]

Why is it that in Republican strongholds where the count  has been officiated by GOP affiliates that even those Officials have clearly stated no fraud was committed ?

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Am I the only one noticing a change in narrative?

 

 Straight after the election the establishmentarian stance was, there is no voter fraud. PERIOD.

 

 Now the stance is, OK there was some isolated fraud and many irregularities but it is not enough to change the election result, and should not be investigated more.

 

Small correction to this. Nobody is denying the observation windows were covered up. They were. The contentious issue is whether they were covered up to stop legal observers from doing their job because dodgy practises were occurring(the conservative's stance), or whether the windows were covered because the vote counters felt "intimidated" by observers who were trying to do their job, of observing the ballot count(the left's stance).

There is always a minimal amount of fraud in every election, about 200 cases on average, not by officials but by John Doe who spuriously thinks that his dead mothers vote will change things.

The governors, Republican and Democrats, as well as impartial international observers say the election was fair and above board. Massive fraud would be easily detectable. If Democrats were using fraud they would be sure to raise their numbers in 'the house' (they lost seats) and to control the senate (they haven't) which will make governing more difficult for Biden.

The only reason that most GOP senators are humouring Trump by not telling him to concede is because of the run off voting to take place in Georgia, when that is done and dusted Donald gets the boot.

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Partisan loyalty.

I'm sure that the three he put on SCOTUS can feel his breath on the back of their necks.

This could be where we see what Roberts is really made of.

 

 

Even his judges can't call black is white, if there is no proof (and there is none) then the case has to be dismissed although I doubt it will be accepted in the first place, these judges, however partisan, have a sense of their own dignity. 

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

these judges, however partisan, have a sense of their own dignity.

 

Or at least their career.

[bendejo]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Even his judges can't call black is white, if there is no proof (and there is none) then the case has to be dismissed although I doubt it will be accepted in the first place, these judges, however partisan, have a sense of their own dignity. 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/justice-brett-kavanaugh-parrots-trump-in-ominous-anti-mail-in-ballot-ruling-in-wisconsin-decision-footnote

 

 

[Lacessit]

5 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Why is it that in Republican strongholds where the count  has been officiated by GOP affiliates that even those Officials have clearly stated no fraud was committed ?

Trump has just fired Chris Krebs, the cybersecurity head, saying his comments were "highly inaccurate"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-18/us-election-live-joe-biden-names-senior-staff/12893176

His vindictiveness and pettiness are on full display.

In Pennsylvania, Judge Matthew Brann has asked the Trump legal team why they are asking the court to invalidate 6.3 million votes, thereby disenfranchising every single voter. He's asking them to justify the result. The legal challenges have descended into farce.

I can only think Trump's lawyers are getting paid in advance, it's the only way the damage to their reputations can be rationalised. If they are not, it proves not only the law is an ass.

[Credo]

10 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

You see isolated incidents such as the guy voting in his dead mother's name. Totally irrelevant. How about-

 

I see 6,000 votes in Antrim co,MI being swapped somehow from Trump to Biden. (incredibly can't find an msm link for this)

 

I see votes favouring Trump mysteriously uncounted.

"On Monday evening Georgia Secretary of State's Office election official Gabriel Sterling announced 2,600 ballots were not counted during the 2020 election.

In a virtual press conference Sterling said the Floyd County ballots were not scanned properly. "It'll change the margin by around 800 votes," said Sterling."

https://www.cbs46.com/news/ga-secretary-of-states-office-says-2-600-floyd-county-ballots-were-uncounted/article_36299cee-285a-11eb-b679-1f6fe2722a90.html

 

I see 8,000 fraudulent votes here.

"Montenegro, 53, allegedly submitted more than 8,000 fraudulent voter registration applications between July and October, as well as allegedly falsifying names, addresses and signatures on nomination papers under penalty of perjury to run for mayor in Hawthorne."

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/pair-charged-with-voter-fraud-allegedly-submitted-thousands-of-fraudulent-applications-on-behalf-of-homeless-people/2464168/

 

If we were having an open discussion I would give a few dozen links like the above to prove beyond doubt that voter irregularities happened, and on a reasonable scale well worth further investigation.

I'd say your post is bordering on false.   You make one claim that you can't back up with a reputable source and then you post about ballots that were not counted.   Please explain how this is fraud.  Was it deliberate?   Was it investigated?   Was it corrected?   I suspect it was NOT deliberate, it was investigated and it has been corrected.   So, no fraud.

 

As for the attempt to register homeless people, it was stopped.  They didn't vote, so again, hardly voter fraud.   

 

 

[Susco]

13 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I see 6,000 votes in Antrim co,MI being swapped somehow from Trump to Biden. (incredibly can't find an msm link for this)

 

You can't find a msm link, obviously you can't find any other link as well, and you are posting fake news?

[Susco]

Let him have all of Pennsylvania, 100% of the votes for Trump, and he still loses the election, because he was born as a loser and will be remembered as a loser