No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19

[jerolamo]

3 minutes ago, lavezzi said:

so do you think that with 90/95% effectivemess thailand gov will remove quarantine and allow 5% of infected in the country?

forget about it.

Did you suggest indirectly that they will not test more their own population to find this much more than 5% infected already there ?

Sure, they did not, because they have no interest to do that.

[onthedarkside]

More false info posts have been removed, including one with misinformation about U.S. CV statistics, and another with misinformation about vaccine testing and development. Please do not attempt to repost information that has already been removed.

 

[Brian Hudson]

Qantas needs to be careful with banning people from using their planes because of Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine. If this vaccine is not made mandatory worldwide then I can see Human Rights issues coming into play and unless every airline has the same attitude then people will choose to fly with another airline 

 

And I believe the same applies to individual countries if this vaccine is not mandatory worldwide then people will choose other countries to visit if Thailand makes having this vaccine as a condition of entry then people will spend their money somewhere else 

[sezze]

SARS outbreak from WHO :

An epidemic of SARS affected 26 countries and resulted in more than 8000 cases in 2003.

 

Covid 19 :

current and going nearly 60 million cases 1.4 million deaths .

So , how about that comparison ...

 

Now talking a bit more , SARS was/is very related to Covid , both corona virus , very similar in build , and jumped species , like with all new virus . When a virus jumps species , things happen as the virus wants to reproduce and it mutates . In most cases of that species jump , the mutation gives way in such that we arent affected anymore and it just dies off . Covid hit the jackpot and infected a large amount of people .making it difficult not to spread further ( since it does spread very easy also ) . This way it adapts itself in a way to bypass our own defences . The virus now is not the same like the 1 in the beginning of the pandemic , it evolved in a higher infection rate , in a way that it prob will never go away , but it might up being much softer ( common cold ). Lucky ( sometimes we are lucky also ) , it did not at the moment mutate in a different way like flu virus does . The markers on which the vaccines are supposed to work are still there .

How come they are so fast with a vaccine , indeed SARS is a big reason for it ( and a few other reasons also ) , big research had been done on SARS , but it did not come to the point where Covid is now . However being so similar , that research is the 1 used to adapt the new vaccine  towards covid instead of sars . Like it is for example flu vaccine which is new every year also .

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[VBF]

1 hour ago, onthedarkside said:

 

The U.S. has not given emergency use authorization to ANY CV vaccine, as yet. The federal agency that decides such things is scheduled to meet around mid-December to discuss applications.

 

What the U.S. govt. has done is advance order supplies of different vaccine candidates, in the event they're approved, and has funded development and manufacturing of vaccine candidates, so supplies would be available if the vaccines end up getting the green light.

 

I believe the UK is doing similar, with similar reasoning

[VBF]

33 minutes ago, P100 said:

<snip>

 Vaccinated people can still be carrier of the virus even if they don't become seriously sick. It is too early to predict...

Are you quite sure about that?  Or did you mean to say "Vaccinated people might still be carrier of the virus......"?

I agree with "It is too early to predict..."

 

Do you have a link, perhaps?

Edited November 24, 2020 by VBF

[mike787]

Just when Thai immigrations xenophobia was too much to manage, the bar is raised beyond impossible. 

[xkkpafi]

2 hours ago, chilli42 said:

The current process is working like a charm

Hear hear! Just look at the mess that Europe is in. Level 3 then level 4 then level 2 except in areas with a <deleted> postcode which have level 3 and a half,  then level 5 except on odd numbered fridays.

[Traubert]

34 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The irony in some of these posts speculating about retirees in Thailand refusing the jab and getting picked up/flagged at their next visa renewal is if they won't have the jap and are therefore refused an extn or are blatantly deported how do the authorities think they are going to get them home?

On an aeroplane.

 

Via IDC,

[Time to grow]

The decision to accept the vaccine or not largely comes down to your trust or mistrust of the government, corporations and other key figures. Speaking for myself, my government lies to me regularly as acknowledged by even some of its supporters. As just one example; First they told me masks don't work then they mandated them. Corporations including some of the vaccine manufactures may not have a legal requirement to maximize revenue but I think we can agree that it is typically the goal.

• Pfizer agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, (https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history).
• AstraZeneca, agreed to pay $355 million in what was among the largest settlements in a heath care fraud cases but they have a long list of convictions, (https://www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca#:~:text=The%20company%20agreed%20to%20pay,relating%20to%20state%20Medicaid%20programs.).
• Merck with it's tens of billions in revenue is not without it's own controversy; "Dr David Graham described the outcome of Vioxx as “a disaster,” one that is “unparalleled in the history of the United States” and that “constituted an unprecedented failure of the nation’s system of drug approval and oversight. https://www.drugwatch.com/vioxx/. And the list goes on.

Traditional vaccine development is a long, complex process, often lasting 10-15 years and involving a combination of public and private involvement, (https://www.historyofvaccines.org/index.php/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation). Considering that some of these proposed vaccines are mRNA based vaccines, a new class of vaccine not previously tested on humans over an extended period of time, would seem to justify greater scrutiny from my perspective.

 

My intent is to wait and watch as long as I have the freedom to do so. If that makes me an "anti-vaxer", then so be it. My government, the medical and health industry has too compromised it's credibility to be trusted at this point.

[Thorgal]

26 minutes ago, sezze said:

SARS outbreak from WHO :

An epidemic of SARS affected 26 countries and resulted in more than 8000 cases in 2003.

 

Covid 19 :

current and going nearly 60 million cases 1.4 million deaths .

So , how about that comparison ...

 

Now talking a bit more , SARS was/is very related to Covid , both corona virus , very similar in build , and jumped species , like with all new virus . When a virus jumps species , things happen as the virus wants to reproduce and it mutates . In most cases of that species jump , the mutation gives way in such that we arent affected anymore and it just dies off . Covid hit the jackpot and infected a large amount of people .making it difficult not to spread further ( since it does spread very easy also ) . This way it adapts itself in a way to bypass our own defences . The virus now is not the same like the 1 in the beginning of the pandemic , it evolved in a higher infection rate , in a way that it prob will never go away , but it might up being much softer ( common cold ). Lucky ( sometimes we are lucky also ) , it did not at the moment mutate in a different way like flu virus does . The markers on which the vaccines are supposed to work are still there .

How come they are so fast with a vaccine , indeed SARS is a big reason for it ( and a few other reasons also ) , big research had been done on SARS , but it did not come to the point where Covid is now . However being so similar , that research is the 1 used to adapt the new vaccine  towards covid instead of sars . Like it is for example flu vaccine which is new every year also .

 

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

MERS, SARS and SARS-CoV-2 are zoonotic in nature as they originated from animals and were transmitted to humans.

 

Most relevant difference is their genetic code and their immunity or strength (protein synthesis) which is determinant for the host. 

 

Next to that you have to consider the impact of the morbidity index that can speed up the process contamination. The morbidity index is logically higher with the age.

[mbenson]

13 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

And does that mean their own Thai Nationals as well, since currently a pre-flight Covid test is not needed.

Interesting. If they were to shorten the quarantine for vaccinated visitors, would they make unvaccinated Thais stay in quarantine longer than visitors? My feeling is no.

 

Imposing a quarantine for vaccinated individuals is crazy anyway. Either the vaccine works or it doesn't. What miniscule number of vaccinated people for whom the vaccine proved ineffective, AND who are currently infected, do they think the will find?

[KhaoYai]

49 minutes ago, sezze said:

How come they are so fast with a vaccine , indeed SARS is a big reason for it ( and a few other reasons also ) , big research had been done on SARS , but it did not come to the point where Covid is now . However being so similar , that research is the 1 used to adapt the new vaccine  towards covid instead of sars . Like it is for example flu vaccine which is new every year also .

I have no doubt you are correct but in addition - there was a very graphic and verbal explanation of how the vaccine has been speeded up without cutting any corners, on TV last week. 

 

There has been no relaxation of the testing and trial requirements, certainly not in the case of the 'Oxford Vaccine' in the UK.  What they have done is to overlap the 3 phases of the trials and to begin production of the vaccine based on early results on an 'at risk' basis. So, with volunteer's agreement, Phase 2 began as soon as the early results for Phase 1 proved favourable. Likewise Phase 3 began around halfway through Phase 2.  All the usual requirements have been met - nothing has been missed out.

 

To the detractors:

 

Do you still use a starting handle on your car or do you use one of those dangerous modern electric starters?  Do you travel to Thailand in a Jet aircraft or do you play it safe and fly through several continents using multiple local shorthaul, propellor driven planes/camels? When I was a kid, the train from Leeds to London took over 5 hours, the same journey today can be as short as 2 1/4 hours. Its called progress and as sezze points out - much of the science necessary to make the Covid vaccines has already been covered through the production of vaccines for other similar diseases.

Edited November 24, 2020 by KhaoYai

[SiSePuede419]

You need to get vaccinated 3 weeks before travel. 

 

Can the gap year and Pattaya bar stool alcoholics plan that far in advance? ????

[jerolamo]

8 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have no doubt you are correct but in addition - there was a very graphic and verbal explanation of how the vaccine has been speeded up without cutting any corners, on TV last week. 

 

There has been no relaxation of the testing and trial requirements, certainly not in the case of the 'Oxford Vaccine' in the UK.  What they have done is to overlap the 3 phases of the trials and to begin production of the vaccine based on early results on an 'at risk' basis. So, with volunteer's agreement, Phase 2 began as soon as the early results for Phase 1 proved favourable. Likewise Phase 3 began around halfway through Phase 2.  All the usual requirements have been met - nothing has been missed out.

 

To the detractors:

 

Do you still use a starting handle on your car or do you use one of those dangerous modern electric starters?  Do you travel to Thailand in a Jet aircraft or do you play it safe and fly through several continents using multiple local shorthaul, propellor driven planes/camels? When I was a kid, the train from Leeds to London took over 5 hours, the same journey today can be as short as 2 1/4 hours. Its called progress and as sezze points out - much of the science necessary to make the Covid vaccines has already been covered through the production of vaccines for other similar diseases.

from which time the TV is talking the true ?

Can you please show us something more serious so we can trust ?

 

The next story you wrote are just rhetoric exercise it will be easy (but a bit long there) to demonstrate how it works. There is no demonstration on your answer my friend. Just read it back.

Edited November 24, 2020 by jerolamo

[VBF]

16 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have no doubt you are correct but in addition - there was a very graphic and verbal explanation of how the vaccine has been speeded up without cutting any corners, on TV last week. 

 

There has been no relaxation of the testing and trial requirements, certainly not in the case of the 'Oxford Vaccine' in the UK.  What they have done is to overlap the 3 phases of the trials and to begin production of the vaccine based on early results on an 'at risk' basis. So, with volunteer's agreement, Phase 2 began as soon as the early results for Phase 1 proved favourable. Likewise Phase 3 began around halfway through Phase 2.  All the usual requirements have been met - nothing has been missed out.

 

To the detractors:

 

Do you still use a starting handle on your car or do you use one of those dangerous modern electric starters?  Do you travel to Thailand in a Jet aircraft or do you play it safe and fly through several continents using multiple local shorthaul, propellor driven planes/camels? When I was a kid, the train from Leeds to London took over 5 hours, the same journey today can be as short as 2 1/4 hours. Its called progress and as sezze points out - much of the science necessary to make the Covid vaccines has already been covered through the production of vaccines for other similar diseases.

Indeed - another analogy - the wheel was only invented once - but upon that invention there have been many refinements made....but none of them required the total reinvention.

And yet, I'm still a little cautious about taking something so new...in case one of the axle bearings is faulty as it were.????

Edited November 24, 2020 by VBF

[daejung]

6 hours ago, VBF said:

Without "crowing" any UK-based  members (especially we old gits!) will almost certainly get it free on the NHS ????

Like my flu shot which I had 2 weeks ago

Same in France

[Time to grow]

It cracks me up that so many argue so vehemently over an "experimental" new technology in the form of an mRNA vaccine. So little is known about the mRNA vaccines and nothing is known about the long term consequences yet people will go to the mat to defend this new technology. Some even go so far as to propose national or global mandates. I think science would view that approach as irresponsible to the extent that one might consider ulterior motives are driving the narrative.

[nkg]

14 hours ago, sweetserenity said:

I really hope it wont be mandatory to be vaccinated in order to visit thailand the first year at least... 

 

Hopefully they will give you a choice - get vaccinated, or pay for a 14 day quarantine. ????

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, daejung said:

Same in France

Same in Australia, free to all citizens, and all permanent resident holders, all folks in Australia at the time on visas for fruit picking etc., etc. 

 

And Australia is providing the serum to all the island nations near Australia no charge. 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by scorecard

[onthedarkside]

1 hour ago, Time to grow said:

It cracks me up that so many argue so vehemently over an "experimental" new technology in the form of an mRNA vaccine. So little is known about the mRNA vaccines and nothing is known about the long term consequences yet people will go to the mat to defend this new technology. Some even go so far as to propose national or global mandates. I think science would view that approach as irresponsible to the extent that one might consider ulterior motives are driving the narrative.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/what-mrna-how-pfizer-moderna-tapped-new-tech-make-coronavirus-n1248054

 

Quote

What is mRNA? How Pfizer and Moderna tapped new tech to make coronavirus vaccines

If the experimental coronavirus vaccines win approval from the Food and Drug Administration, they will be the first-ever authorized vaccines that use mRNA.

 

 

 

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccine candidates are based on mRNA. The AstraZeneca vaccine candidate is not.

 

Quote

How does Astra’s vaccine differ?

Oxford and Astra are using a harmless virus to carry some of the pathogen’s genetic material into cells to generate an immune response. The so-called viral vector vaccine is made from a weakened version of a common cold virus that’s genetically changed to make it unable to grow in humans. The vaccines developed by Pfizer and Moderna employ messenger RNA technology. When injected, the mRNA instructs cells to make SARS-CoV-2’s spike protein, which the virus normally uses to invade cells.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-23/astra-delivers-but-can-t-match-rivals-here-s-what-we-know

 

 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, jerolamo said:

from which time the TV is talking the true ?

Can you please show us something more serious so we can trust ?

It was on the BBC - the details were given by the government's chief scientific and medical officers. The companies involved have also stated the same, as have the WHO. I'm quite satisfied with the explanations I've been given and I'll be at the front of the queue when the vaccine is offered to my age group.

 

You choose to believe whatever you want - if you choose to believe the conspiracy theorists or general doubters over scientists and other experts, that is of course your right but don't complain if you refuse the vaccine and get the virus - that is of course, if you are alive to complain.

 

I find this whole conspiracy theory thing laughable - its often the same people who seem to believe every conspiracy theory going. When they are given proof or justification that their theories are false, they then claim the TV companies or newspapers are spreading fake news etc. etc. Its much the same way as when Trump asked his expert to check the election count, then fired him when he came back and said the result was correct.  That's the thing with conspiracy theorists, no matter what evidence is presented to them, they will not accept it and change their views.

 

The problem is that they are often spreading very dangerous information.  A couple of months ago I was talking to a close friend on Whatsapp - she'd been 'contaminated' by a conspiracy theorist and sent me a genuine looking news report that stated that the woman who was the first volunteer on the Oxford vaccine trial had died. My friend was adamant that she would not be having the vaccine because of that.  Being quite used to the lies that are being spread on the internet these days, I did a simple Google check on the story. It was a total fake, the woman was alive and kicking and appeared on a video hosted by a major UK newspaper.  There were several other reports on the fake 'death'.

 

When my friend presented the newspaper report and video to the conspiracy theorist, they claimed the video was a fake, performed by an actor - which is what I expected to be honest.  Its about time that spreading total lies that could be detrimental to people's health was made a crime - that might shut these story tellers up.  Some people are easily taken in by 'professional' looking reports - no matter how irrational the information may be - its bloody dangerous!

Edited November 24, 2020 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, jerolamo said:

from which time the TV is talking the true ?

Can you please show us something more serious so we can trust ?

 

The next story you wrote are just rhetoric exercise it will be easy (but a bit long there) to demonstrate how it works. There is no demonstration on your answer my friend. Just read it back.

I think you should read it back - it seems quite clear to me.

 

You might also want to read the report below - although you'll probably cry fake.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371

 

I'm guessing you're either in Thailand or like me, travel there often. What are you going to do if the OP turns out to be correct and Thailand imposes a 'no vaccine, no entry' rule?  If you're there already - never leave? If you travel to Thailand - stop going?

Edited November 24, 2020 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, VBF said:

And yet, I'm still a little cautious about taking something so new...in case one of the axle bearings is faulty as it were.

As you will know if you travel in Bangkok taxis - axle bearings can be noisy for years, they rarely collapse ????

[pokerface1]

If I get vaccinated then you can stick the $100,000 Covid insurance where the sun doesn’t shine. Once the Covid insurance is removed With no quarantine  I would say it’s full steam ahead for travel to Thailand Just normal travel insurance should be enough. 

[sezze]

31 minutes ago, pokerface1 said:

If I get vaccinated then you can stick the $100,000 Covid insurance where the sun doesn’t shine. Once the Covid insurance is removed With no quarantine  I would say it’s full steam ahead for travel to Thailand Just normal travel insurance should be enough. 

I think you are right about it . Does Thailand do that ... who knows , i think they don't know it themselves .It wouldn't be fair to expect people to get vaccine ( any normal thinking should take it imho , but thats beside the point ) , and expect quarantine or extra insurance for something in which you took action . Any normal travel insurance should cover it , because it would be unexpected in that case .

We still got a difficult year ahead , since not all can have the vaccine even if they want to , and how airlines and countries gonna react on it is difficult to say .But for me, as soon as you got a vaccine , travel is back to normal and any normal travel insurance should cover it .

[joecoolfrog]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Absolutely. 

Free to be an anti vaccer.

Just better accept the consequences!

 

 

This.

[Don Chance]

What about China? China has 6 vaccines in phase 3 now.

 

Picture this, you fly into a Chinese city where everyone is already vaccinated. So you get vaccinated and no quarantine because everyone around you is already vaccinated and can not catch it from you. After a week you head on to Thailand or your choice destination.

[joecoolfrog]

8 hours ago, chilli42 said:

It continues to amaze me how much freedom people will give up out of fear. So to participate in society you are willing to let governments tell you what vaccines you must have?  Where does that end?  

Unless you live under a draconian dictatorship I seriously doubt that anybody will force you to be vaccinated.

If you choose to hold tight to your ' freedom ' , dont whine if others ( individuals , corporations , governments) see things differently .

It's your choice not to take a vaccine, it's also the gift of others to impose restrictions on those of your ilk.

[kiwikeith]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

No vaccine, no entry – the next challenge of Covid-19
The Thaiger
 

OPINION

 

 

With the announcements this week about several vaccine candidate trials, either being completed or at the end of their Phase 3 testings, and the applications to government bodies for ‘emergency approval’, we now have to face the next question.

 

What restrictions will be imposed on those people who don’t have the vaccine, or even actively choose not to have the vaccine?

And more locally…

 

Will Thailand allow people to enter Thailand without first having the Covid-19 vaccine?

 

Given the Thai Government’s low-risk strategy, well almost zero-risk strategy, and reluctance to take any chances with a second wave of Covid 19, it is highly likely there will be a stipulation that anyone entering Thailand will need a vaccine certificate or stamp in their passports.

Couple this with the Thai population’s continued fear of allowing foreigners back into the country at this time, in poll after poll, and it’s a safe bet there will be a “no vaccine, no entry” restriction imposed.

 

On a positive note, the Thai government may drop the 14 day quarantine for people that have had the vaccine (but not in the early days).

 

At this stage we know that most of the vaccine trials have had a 95% efficacy. We also know that the leading BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine needs an original jab plus a booster and has to be transported at extremely low temperature.

To complicate matters, there is not yet sufficient evidence that having had a bout of Covid-19, whether asymptomatic or not, guarantees you immunity. Or, if it does, for how long?

 

All these factors will mean that some level of quarantine will probably be in force as the Thai government slowly re-opens its borders to a wider groups of vaccinated travellers. This would remain in force until the world has a better knowledge of both the proven efficacy of the vaccine, or vaccines, and the re-infection rates.

 

So, even if we start getting groups of the world’s populations vaccinated before the end of the year, and that’s still a very big IF, there’s a lot more water to pass under the bridge until a coherent, reliable vaccine strategy can be understood and implemented.

 

Then there will be a rump of people, either hard core anti-vaxxers, or others who are at least skeptical of a new vaccine, who will want to wait or not want the vaccine at all. Public education, some strong science and a successful roll out of the early vaccines will be a key to winning over a lot of the world’s population.

 

Somehow governments and health authorities are going to have to wind back much of the disinformation floating around the internet about vaccines that is so factually out of whack with reality, it’s going to be one of the greatest public health challenges of all time, to reassure people about the science of vaccines and vaccination.

 

All this, in the middle of a pandemic that, for now, is still on the ascendency as far as new cases and deaths are concerned.

 

But there is little doubt rejoining the world of international travel, even local travel, could become restricted to only those who are vaccinated. The rest will be stuck roaming around their own countries, or states, for… years with a raft of restrictions on their lives. Who knows.

 

Will shopping centres or public buildings also impose a “no vaccine, no entry” policy? Hotels? Public buildings? Job applications?

 

On top of the economic stress which has fallen on a lot of the world, with so many governments now facing the headwinds of deep recession, the vaccine ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’ will add even more public disquiet.

 

At this stage nobody is sure how the vaccine will be rolled out in Thailand. The Thai government has already signed up for several of the leading vaccine candidates and will most likely provide the vaccine for free to citizens under its public health system.

 

What does that mean for foreigners living here? If you are covered, with a work permit, under the country’s public health, are you able to get the vaccine for free too? Will the thousands of foreigners on private health insurance be covered?

 

Surely the insurers will want its customers to be vaccinated. Sick customers cost them money. So, will insurance renewals be limited to only people who have been vaccinated? Will visas be renewed only if you have been vaccinated?

 

At this stage there are no firm answers to any of these questions.

 

And then there is the SARS Cov2 virus (Covid-19) itself, a living virus which has the ability to mutate and adapt. Will these new vaccines be effective against all mutations? Again, this is all ahead of us.

 

We’re certainly now entering a new phase of this pandemic. New challenges, new questions. The rising numbers of cases throughout 2020 is only the first chapter of a book that will be many more years in the making.

 

Source: https://thethaiger.com/news/national/no-vaccine-no-entry-the-next-challenge-of-covid-19

 

-- © Copyright The Thaiger 2020-11-24

 

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I have said the above b4. 

I even suspect that the STV Chinese entering at present are vaccinated with the Sino vaccine and all will return to China after their 90 day sprees, testing negative when they leave The land of the no more smiles. 

Thailand has been offered the Sino vaccine and offered priority from China for the supply. It's a no brainer, a done deal, China has vaccinated their military and that vaccine looks like a winner. 

 

So, which way will Prayut fly, my guess is China, and Europeans will need to have a shot of Pfizer or Astra zenca b4 being allowed in to Los, this will apply to all international flights and Billy bad boy Gates will cash in. 

Butttttt, don't forget the Russians they will enter on Sputnik 5,all the RT media staff have had a shot already, and that vaccine, similar to Astra Zenca seems to be doing very well,. So follow the yellow brick road, China first, Russia 2nd, Astra Zenca 3rd followed by Pfizer. I would bet a dollar each way.