1 minute ago, cmarshall said:

It's ironic that Britain's oppression of the Irish which created the Irish Diaspora during the Famine should at this late date produce such effect revenge as the Irish American block, which emphatically includes President-elect Biden, should be dictating the UK's internal borders.

 

But not to worry.  it won't be the UK for long.  Once the Celtic bits get trimmed off, it'll just be Little England.

 

   Would you like independence ?

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Yes, no need to state the obvious .

If it's so obvious, then why claim that the US has no business making an open border between North and South a condition for trade talks?

50 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Biden pretending to be Irish again.

 

He should mind his own business. He has enough domestic problems without sticking his nose into other people's affairs. 

Go back and read up on recent history. It was largely due to the efforts the POTUS, in the form of Bill Clinton, that the 'Good Friday Agreement' came into being at all. And there are many people in Northern Ireland who are very grateful for that. There is even a Peace Centre named after him in Enniskillen.

 

Nobody told him to keep his nose out back then!

 

The more pressure that is put on the UK government to keep the situation stable and calm in Ireland, both north and south, the better IMO and should be welcomed.

 

 

11 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

I think that would be news to the Indonesians whose memories of Dutch rule are not all that fond.

I know did some horrible things over there but i was taking about how we build our empire it was not with our own forces but with forces from local leaders manipulating them. We did not have the same power the UK did at that time. Does not mean the Dutch were any  "nicer"  then the Brits or any others who conquered others.

 

But it shows a different mindset, more thinking about benefits and trade then freedom and force. We never thought we were some kind of super power (we were not) we kept it all together by deals and manipulation. (and force of course). But we did not have the mindset of being able to do it all alone. 

 

There is no excusing what the Dutch did in Indonesia, I could find enough examples of Brit violence too but that was not my point. 

45 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

You talk as though you've been subjugated so long that you'll take orders from anyone now, even someone who isn't yet the leader of a country that makes thinly veiled economic threats. That ingrained deference will come in handy when Scotland joins the EU.

 

The UK on the other hand doesn't take orders from the US, we don't take orders from the EU and we don't respond well to blackmail.

 

Just like North Korea then ????

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Would you like independence ?

 

Enjoy it.  Your independent Little England won't be ruling any waves, for sure.

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I know did some horrible things over there but i was taking about how we build our empire it was not with our own forces but with forces from local leaders manipulating them. We did not have the same power the UK did at that time. Does not mean the Dutch were any  "nicer"  then the Brits or any others who conquered others.

 

But it shows a different mindset, more thinking about benefits and trade then freedom and force. We never thought we were some kind of super power (we were not) we kept it all together by deals and manipulation. (and force of course). But we did not have the mindset of being able to do it all alone. 

 

There is no excusing what the Dutch did in Indonesia, I could find enough examples of Brit violence too but that was not my point. 

 

   That was 100's of years ago , the World has moved on since then .

  The year is 2020 , the year isnt 1720 .

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

If you are happy for The Netherlands to be subjugated to the EU that's fine.

Belgium is also a member of the E.U..

No man in the street believe/experience they are subjugated by this E.U. thing.

 

Belgium has just decided that every pensioner should have a least a monthly income of 1500 Euro ( about 54000 ThB ).

Well the great majority believe it is a Belgian decision,

for the ones who are convinced that the E.U. interfere in the local  matters of its members, it will be of course, an E.U. decision.

2 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Enjoy it.  Your independent Little England won't be ruling any waves, for sure.

 A bit of hypocrisy there ?

Critical of UKs independence from the E.U , then championing the cause of Celtic (whoever they may be) independence from the UK  

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   That was 100's of years ago , the World has moved on since then .

  The year is 2020 , the year isnt 1720 .

 

This is how the peculiar British memory functions.  When it's about their monarchy then history starts with William the Conqueror.  When it's about the atrocities of Empire, then nothing prior to the 1960s is relevant.  

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   That was 100's of years ago , the World has moved on since then .

  The year is 2020 , the year isnt 1720 .

Sorry for mistakenly thinking that we still had Indonesia and tried to get it back just after the second world war (that was when the war crimes were committed) . Same like the Brit empire we were in decline before that time.

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Belgium is also a member of the E.U..

No man in the street believe/experience they are subjugated by this E.U. thing.

 

Belgium has just decided that every pensioner should have a least a monthly income of 1500 Euro ( about 54000 ThB ).

Well the great majority believe it is a Belgian decision,

for the ones who are convinced that the E.U. interfere in the local  matters of its members, it will be of course, an E.U. decision.

Yea all those Brexiteers always complaining about the EU deciding things..  I don't get it at all. Most things get decided by local government and when deals like extra loans for covid were discussed all member states could argue and even Veto. As i recall the Dutch and some others held firm did give in a bit at the time but got a rebate in return (so much for not having any influence)

 

However I have read quite often that part of the reason there was so much hatred against the EU in the Uk was that their politicians (on both sides) blamed all wrongs on the EU instead of taking their own responsibility. 

Just now, cmarshall said:

 

This is how the peculiar British memory functions.  When it's about their monarchy then history starts with William the Conqueror.  When it's about the atrocities of Empire, then nothing prior to the 1960s is relevant.  

 

  Its about moving forward and NOT living in the past .

All this talk about rebuilding the British Empire is ridiculous .

The UK just wants independence from the E.U. and we arent about to invade India or start sending our prisoners to Australia ????

31 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Oh and I thought you were going to offer something vague like unspecified "past posts" to support your point. It's nonsense. Please stop making things up.

Surely you can remember when the Euros thought that they were being two timed by the US and all the snide remarks about the US, and they thought, how dare the Brits cheat on us.

I would put your memory lapse down to selective memory rather than claiming I made it up, I didn't.

 

6 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 A bit of hypocrisy there ?

Critical of UKs independence from the E.U , then championing the cause of Celtic (whoever they may be) independence from the UK  

They were not vocal about leaving before the UK left the EU. They just did not want to leave the EU and think its better to be under the EU then UK (cant blame them when someone like BJ is in power).

 

Its a direct result from Brexit, if the Irish and Scots really leave the UK then its a direct result from nationalistic Brexiteers. The fun part is nationalists in a way are responsible for the UK falling appart.

 

And no I wont say like BJ that it will be easy for the Scots or Irish to do so and that it will be a fast easy deal without any drawbacks. 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

I don't want to see a border between the US and Mexico but it has got nothing what so-ever to do with me, and just because the President Elect has 1 ounce of Irish blood in him, Ireland has zippo to do with him.

But a trade deal between UK-US does. If Biden wants to make honouring the Good Friday agreement a condition of the trade deal, he can. Up to him. Trash the Good Friday Agreement and trash the UK-US trade deal, up to Johnson.

1 minute ago, polpott said:

But a trade deal between UK-US does. If Biden wants to make honouring the Good Friday agreement a condition of the trade deal, he can. Up to him. Trash the Good Friday Agreement and trash the UK-US trade deal, up to Johnson.

Exactly, but not all of us would sell our grandmother just to get an extra kipper.

Just now, vogie said:

Exactly, but not all of us would sell our grandmother just to get an extra kipper.

OK. No kipper (trade deal with US) for the UK then.

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

They were not vocal about leaving before the UK left the EU. They just did not want to leave the EU and think its better to be under the EU then UK (cant blame them when someone like BJ is in power).

 

Its a direct result from Brexit, if the Irish and Scots really leave the UK then its a direct result from nationalistic Brexiteers. The fun part is nationalists in a way are responsible for the UK falling appart.

 

And no I wont say like BJ that it will be easy for the Scots or Irish to do so and that it will be a fast easy deal without any drawbacks. 

 

   You are re writing history , Ireland isnt part of the UK (so it cannot leave the UK ) and there has always been calls for Scottish independence  

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Exactly, but not all of us would sell our grandmother just to get an extra kipper.

Indeed, not all of us are politicians.

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

But a trade deal between UK-US does. If Biden wants to make honouring the Good Friday agreement a condition of the trade deal, he can. Up to him. Trash the Good Friday Agreement and trash the UK-US trade deal, up to Johnson.

 

   Just hope that he will treat the E.U. the same way as he treats the UK , after all it would be jointly the E.U.s fault if the GFA is reversed 

3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  Its about moving forward and NOT living in the past .

All this talk about rebuilding the British Empire is ridiculous .

The UK just wants independence from the E.U. and we arent about to invade India or start sending our prisoners to Australia ????

Really you should listen to yourself sometime.  You regard the normal negotiations between nations each of whom is pursuing its own agenda with as disdain that can only be called "imperial."  The UK cannot dictate terms to anyone anymore.   There is no complete independence in the world.

 

But the British are unable to consider themselves as an ordinary nation dealing with other ordinary nations.  It's either the British Empire back again or else they feel the jackboot of the foreigners on their neck.  Good luck with the future as a trading nation that has cancelled its 700 most important trading agreements all at once.  Maybe you can make a virtue of poverty.

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Just hope that he will treat the E.U. the same way as he treats the UK , after all it would be jointly the E.U.s fault if the GFA is reversed 

Completely untrue. Johnson alone has reneged on the agreed deal between EU-UK regarding NI border arrangements. His action has even been deemed illegal under international law.

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

OK. No kipper (trade deal with US) for the UK then.

What Biden says in theatre may be entirely different to what he says behind closed doors, but either way he should keep his nose out of other countries business.

I find it amazing that  there would be people  who think that Biden has no place to  give opinion on the  Irish /Brexit/ border issue as if it were not relevant to trade policy position of his upcoming Administration.

Trump had his  opinion, Biden has his.

 

 

1 minute ago, polpott said:

Completely untrue. Johnson alone has reneged on the agreed deal between EU-UK regarding NI border arrangements. His action has even been deemed illegal under international law.

 

   Could you post a link ?

1 minute ago, vogie said:

What Biden says in theatre may be entirely different to what he says behind closed doors, but either way he should keep his nose out of other countries business.

You mean like Obama did when he warned Brits not to vote leave? Or when Trump warned the UK that anything less than a hard Brexit would result in no trade deal?

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Belgium is also a member of the E.U..

No man in the street believe/experience they are subjugated by this E.U. thing.

 

Belgium has just decided that every pensioner should have a least a monthly income of 1500 Euro ( about 54000 ThB ).

Well the great majority believe it is a Belgian decision,

for the ones who are convinced that the E.U. interfere in the local  matters of its members, it will be of course, an E.U. decision.

 

Of course they don't set every policy. Yet. For now it is things on a larger scale that you may not see every day, things like your countries state aid rules. Who they can do trade deals with. Whose waters they can fish. Who you can and cannot let into your country. Oh and make sure you don't break the rule of law mechanism.

 

This is the new mechanism in which the EU can withhold money from member states if they don't like your government's policies, which is essentially a tool for the unelected EU commission to force their ideology on the democratically elected governments of member states. And when I say withhold money, you should remember that this "EU money" is actually the money that YOUR country paid into the EU via your taxes. 

 

So it's kind of like you give me some money to manage something for you, and then I refuse to pay any of it back unless you agree to my ideas and ideologies.

 

If you like that, fine. I don't want that for the UK's future. And this is just the start, if you can't see the direction that the EU federalist project is going then I can't really help you.

 

Your attitude seems to be that as long as I get a decent pension then I don't care. I take a less blinkered approach. Still, you can lead a horse to water...

 

 

1 minute ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Could you post a link ?

Yes I could. Hundreds.

18 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its a direct result from Brexit, if the Irish and Scots really leave the UK then its a direct result from nationalistic Brexiteers. The fun part is nationalists in a way are responsible for the UK falling appart.

 

 

To be precise it is the English nationalists who will destroy the UK, not the Scots or the Irish nationalists.