2 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

My question is this.How can Trump pardon himself and all his cronies BEFORE they are convicted. None of them will be convicted until after Biden is sworn in.

The President has the power to pardon people of any crimes they may have convicted. He doesn't have to wait for a trial and verdict.

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

Nixon didnt pardon himself. Nor did ford pardon him for anything after his presidency.

 

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Apparently, the president can grant a federal pardon for any federal things that have occurred up to the point of the pardon, even if criminal charges were only brought later.

 

Understood, but my question was to the point posted re "...he has to pardon specific crimes." Which I guess is open to interpretation.

 

Other than the time period (and arguably nature of any crime) I don't see his pardon actually stating a "specific crime":

 

Quote

Now, THEREFORE, I, GERALD R. FORD, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9, 1974.

 

 

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

Surely Trump would never pardon anyone for money, considering that he's the greatest president of all times. 555

He will do anything for money. That is why he is the greatest president of the no.1 Capitalistic country in the world. 555

2 hours ago, Salerno said:

 

 

Understood, but my question was to the point posted re "...he has to pardon specific crimes." Which I guess is open to interpretation.

 

Other than the time period (and arguably nature of any crime) I don't see his pardon actually stating a "specific crime":

 

 

 

The problem is how does a President pardon himself without placing himself above the law?

 

And, if a President has been found to corruptly issue pardons what is the legal standing of his pardons?

 

l

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The problem is how does a President pardon himself without placing himself above the law?

 

I doubt even Trump would try that but as you know there's ways round it.

 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And, if a President has been found to corruptly issue pardons what is the legal standing of his pardons?

 

That I would like to see tested. Personally, I don't get this "pardon" thing at all, just seems like mocking the justice system. Although losing the 5th could be an interesting byproduct but given plea deals are already available ...

49 minutes ago, oompie69 said:

He will do anything for money. That is why he is the greatest president of the no.1 Capitalistic country in the world. 555

I think the following should be his epitaph:

He turned the Whitehouse into a profit center

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So much for draining the swamp.

 

But credit given where credit is due, the heat on Trump has caused his most ardent supporters to evaporate.

 

  If you're referring to his most ardent supporters on this forum? Almost none of them seem to be American citizens. Presumably, their paymasters have read the writing on the wall, and the rubles are no longer flowing...

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

I think the following should be his epitaph:

He turned the Whitehouse into a profit center

And given his track record in business, it may be his first success.

 

 

Another dry hole for anti-Trumpers. Guaranteed.

20 hours ago, webfact said:

The U.S. Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court documents unsealed in federal court.

i say it again: with trump, the usa have become a banana republic! 

Off-topic post removed.

 

22 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Wait for the clown Trump to echo the clown Nixon "I'm not a crook"! Stormy Daniels has more integrity than the Donald!

Stormy Daniels never lied about who she is or what she does.

45 can't say the same thing.

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

3 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

Because the country is in such good shape after 4 years of trump. ????

49 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

Accepting money for pardons is not swamp behaviour?

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Because the country is in such good shape after 4 years of trump. ????

No. It's back to the same old slogan you 've been repeating over and over again. You don' have much use for evidence, do you? 

And yours is quite a statement coming from someone who claimed he doesn't like Trump.

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

Getting Trump's corporate lobbyists turned political appointees out of office should make the swamp considerably smaller.

18 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

In reading the NY Times on that general subject, the explanation seems pretty confusing and contradictory. For example:

 

On one hand:

 

 

And there's no sign there that Trump's pardon of Flynn had to elaborate on what other legally questionable things Flynn may have been involved in...

 

But, on the other hand:

 

 

So, which is it???  I'm confused...

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/01/us/politics/rudy-giuliani-pardon.html

 

The difference is that Flynn was only accused/charged/convicted of specific crimes (all of which are naturally detailed) and he had been in the administration for just some days, not long enough to commit other crimes whereas Giuliani's situation is open to investigation and he has been in Trump's orbit for a significant period of time thereby giving rise to a higher possibility of crimes as yet unspecified, depending on what various investigations uncover.

 

The question is whether there is such a thing as a blanket pardon, ie for all matters to do with Trump's presidency. I believe there is not. But there is the possibility of pardoning someone who has not yet been charged - this precedent was opened by President Ford's pardoning of Richard Nixon before he was charged/indicted. But, as I argue, the potential charge has to be specified in the pardon. Therefore all those pardoned have to "fess up" to whatever they want to be pardoned of.

 

Such a pardon alone can give rise to further legal complications for a pardoned person. It can and probably will give rise to investigation as to what they actually did. They cannot plead the fifth because they have effectively confessed. It can also give rise to a State investigation which is never covered by a presidential pardon.

 

The trouble with working for Trump is that he walks everyone into breaking the law. He tried to walk Comey into breaking the law (an FBI director declaring loyalty to the President is breaking the law - this is what Trump wanted Comey to do and fired him for not so doing). He got his personal lawyer to pay off the porn stars and then declared that he knew nothing about it, thereby allowing his lawyer to go to jail. Everyone goes under the bus except Trump. What would be interesting is if the FBI went after Trump AND his family - would he throw members of his family under the bus too?

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

You can't move back something that never left. What's changed is that one by one the slimiest bottom dwellers have slunk out of the swamp and on Jan 20th, 2021 the swamp king and his entourage will be ceremoniously booted out making DC a whole lot less stinky. 

3 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

.....meanwhile, back to the swamp come January. Same old, same old ....

 

But but but trump drained the swamp so I think we'll be starting off with a dry swamp? Right?

 

Still plenty of time for trump to build the wall, repeal and replace, lock her up, bring manufacturing jobs back, blah blah blah.

 

I'm sure he'll spend all his time remaining working hard for the American people. I mean after a round or two each day.
 

 

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

But but but trump drained the swamp so I think we'll be starting off with a dry swamp? Right?

 

Still plenty of time for trump to build the wall, repeal and replace, lock her up, bring manufacturing jobs back, blah blah blah.

 

I'm sure he'll spend all his time remaining working hard for the American people. I mean after a round or two each day.
 

 

 

 

 

 

Perhaps your sarcasm is being missed by a few folk mtls!

I am sure it's all a misunderstanding and its part of Trumps draining of the swamp ! 

Not sure which swamp though! 

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

No. It's back to the same old slogan you 've been repeating over and over again. You don' have much use for evidence, do you? 

And yours is quite a statement coming from someone who claimed he doesn't like Trump.

The sarcasm radar needs tuning.

17 minutes ago, Sujo said:

The sarcasm radar needs tuning.

Actually in this case it's yours. His tweets because of their particularly flagrant pro trump flavor and lack of any evidence I have long paid particular attention to. But I can understand how you might easily construe otherwise. Before the election he was claiming that he didn't like Trump but he liked Biden less. Somehow that doesn't square with swamp-draining.

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Actually in this case it's yours. His tweets because of their particularly flagrant pro trump flavor and lack of any evidence I have long paid particular attention to. But I can understand how you might easily construe otherwise. Before the election he was claiming that he didn't like Trump but he liked Biden less. Somehow that doesn't square with swamp-draining.

I know, hence my sarcasm.

20 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

My question is this.How can Trump pardon himself and all his cronies BEFORE they are convicted. None of them will be convicted until after Biden is sworn in.

As stated in my other answer, President Ford opened the door for the possibity of pardoning someone before conviction or even charging by pardoning former president Nixon before he was charged. Since no one thought to challenge that at the time, that created legal precedence.

 

So it does not even matter if they are ever convicted.

 

4 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

As stated in my other answer, President Ford opened the door for the possibity of pardoning someone before conviction or even charging by pardoning former president Nixon before he was charged. Since no one thought to challenge that at the time, that created legal precedence.

 

So it does not even matter if they are ever convicted.

 

Thanks for clarifying that for me. I wrongly assumed it was inherent in the Constitution. Actually, I doubt that's what the writers of the Constitution had in mind. But I don't know the history of pardons before the Constitution.

Seems for one thing or another the whole crime family will be going down. 

30 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

As stated in my other answer, President Ford opened the door for the possibity of pardoning someone before conviction or even charging by pardoning former president Nixon before he was charged. Since no one thought to challenge that at the time, that created legal precedence.

 

So it does not even matter if they are ever convicted.

 

Just because it wasn't challenged back then, doesn't mean it couldn't be challenged now. I don't think that a precedent without Supreme Court backing is much of a precedent.

1 hour ago, pegman said:

Seems for one thing or another the whole crime family will be going down. 

Ivanka just testified and The Third Lady will testify later this week. These are criminal offenses that cannot be brushed away with a presidential pardon. I wonder how well they are sleeping, now that the walls are closing in?