UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[transam]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And again your obsessions show.

Really, I thought history belonged to us all, unless you have something to be ashamed of....????

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, transam said:

1939 was a nightmare for the UK to begin with, but we prevailed, so stop worrying yourself.....

Hardly like for like.  In 1939 people weren't persuaded by a dodgy conman and his chums to walk to the cliff edge and then jump off.

[bannork]

We didn't invade Czechoslovakia, we didn't invade Poland or annex Austria. 

The nightmare of 1939 was none of our doing but the oncoming tragedy of loss of trade and jobs is entirely our own doing.

Stoooopid Brexit   

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Hardly like for like.  In 1939 people weren't persuaded by a dodgy conman and his chums to walk to the cliff edge and then jump off.

I think in 1939 some people were persuaded to do more than walk of the cliff edge DR.

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

I think in 1939 some people were persuaded to do more than walk of the cliff edge DR.

Just pointing out what a stupid comparison to make.  

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Just pointing out what a stupid comparison to make.  

I just don't think a dodgy metaphor about Boris is very comparable to the Third Reich.????

[stevenl]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

I just don't think a dodgy metaphor about Boris is very comparable to the Third Reich.????

Inevitable comparison at the moment someone compares Brexit to 1939.

[candide]

7 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Well, colour me shocked! I thought Brexit was all about taking back control - I didn't realise that the control was then to be handed over to big business. Well done Brexiteers, your corporate overlords thank you are laughing at you.

 

UK workers’ rights at risk in plans to rip up EU labour market rules

Worker protections enshrined in EU law — including the 48-hour week — would be ripped up under plans being drawn up by the government as part of a post-Brexit overhaul of UK labour markets. 

The package of deregulatory measures is being put together by the UK’s business department with the approval of Downing Street, according to people familiar with the matter. It has not yet been agreed by ministers — or put to the cabinet — but select business leaders have been sounded out on the plan.

It's been obvious from the start that ultra-liberal economics were at the centre of the Brexit project. Yet a large part of the working class voted for it. I wonder how they will react when they find out that they have been s€£%#& again.

[7by7]

15 hours ago, tebee said:

I also wonder  if those Brexiters can name one real benefit from Brexit, inspite of all that was promised   

 As you well know, these ardent supporters of Brexit have over the last four years plus been asked many times to name some of the benefits to the UK of Brexit.

 

So far, none of them can think of even one!

[7by7]

11 hours ago, transam said:

No, the word is "your", pointing at you.......????

 My country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; what's yours?

 

11 hours ago, transam said:

"Not posted a simple" word......Hmmmmm.....????

Correct; I've not posted anything simple to say in praise of Brexit; let alone anything complicated!

 

But that seems to have confused you; is English your first language?

 

11 hours ago, transam said:

So you want stuff handed to you on a plate before you will back your country, then you may post something positive, in other words, because the Brexit vote did not go your way you are going to just sit back and sulk until you see something positive, so in your opinion folk should all sit back and sulk until others work stuff out, crazy.

 

I can't speak for yours, but my country is a democracy and we citizens are allowed to criticise our government. We are also allowed to campaign to change legislation; even if that legislation came about as the result of a referendum. Ask those who started campaigning to reverse the 1975 result just a few months after the result; Brexiteer hero Nige was a Johnny Come Lately to that party!

 

I cannot provide something positive about the debacle of Brexit because, as I have previously stated many times, I do not believe there is anything about it which is positive for my country. Positive for certain Tory MPs moving their money into the EU and Brexiteers closing their Welsh factory and reopening it in France maybe, but for the country as a whole; nothing.

 

It is you who claims that there are positives to my country resulting from Brexit; it is up to you to provide an example of such. That you have to resort yet again to they same four years plus old Brexiteer dodges and insults in an effort to avoid the question proves only that you cannot do so.

[7by7]

11 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

He has been doing it for over 5 years..............I doubt that he will change now.

 

That's because for well over five years I've yet to see a single positive for the UK resulting from Brexit.

 

Can you name one?

 

Doubtful; I expect that, in common with those who 'liked' your post and many others who have been asked the same question many times; you will simply ignore it because you have no answer.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 My country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland; what's yours?

 

Correct; I've not posted anything simple to say in praise of Brexit; let alone anything complicated!

 

But that seems to have confused you; is English your first language?

 

 

I can't speak for yours, but my country is a democracy and we citizens are allowed to criticise our government. We are also allowed to campaign to change legislation; even if that legislation came about as the result of a referendum. Ask those who started campaigning to reverse the 1975 result just a few months after the result; Brexiteer hero Nige was a Johnny Come Lately to that party!

 

I cannot provide something positive about the debacle of Brexit because, as I have previously stated many times, I do not believe there is anything about it which is positive for my country. Positive for certain Tory MPs moving their money into the EU and Brexiteers closing their Welsh factory and reopening it in France maybe, but for the country as a whole; nothing.

 

It is you who claims that there are positives to my country resulting from Brexit; it is up to you to provide an example of such. That you have to resort yet again to they same four years plus old Brexiteer dodges and insults in an effort to avoid the question proves only that you cannot do so.

 

Farage was 11 then. As a UK citizen he was quite rightly entitled to late entry into the fray. If you look at his stance on the EU it has been consistent and unwavering. 

 

I think you joined these Brexit chats way after the referendum, so I will update you, any insults in here were all instigated by remainers and it took some time for leavers to respond in kind.

  

[7by7]

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Well I haven't seen Senator Abetz make any invitations to the UK only to the EU regarding CPTPP I assume you have no issues with the EU accepting Senator Abetz  invitation

 

From 21/9/20: Brexit breakthrough: Australian Senator exposes stunning trade deal waiting for Johnson

Quote

AUSTRALIAN Senator Eric Abetz has exposed an incredible trade deal sitting on Prime Minister Boris Johnson's lap in an exclusive interview with Express.co.uk.

 

Though as I said in reply to the following post

On 1/13/2021 at 3:28 AM, transam said:

Well it is your daily duty it seems to trash anything your country voted for, so it would be nice to hear something from you in a positive light, for the simple reason, you or I cannot change anything, so can you give me your opinion on this below, just for a change...????

 

 

this is old news; and nothing is certain. Yet another attempt by Truss to pretend all in the garden is rosy!

 

On 1/13/2021 at 12:14 PM, 7by7 said:

So the UK may send a request to join the CPTTP within months!

 

No guarantee, of course, that such a request would be granted.

 

From Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP)

Quote

What would the UK have to do in order to join the CPTPP?

A state that wants to join has to inform the New Zealand government (the depositary of the agreement), which will then inform the other members. The CPTPP Commission then decides whether or not to start an accession process. If it decides to start the process, a working group would be formed. The UK would have to explain to the working group how it was going to comply with the CPTPP rules.

Expand  

 

Comply with the CPTPP rules! Don't Brexiteers tell us that we left the EU so we could make our own rules?

 

There's more

Quote

What would the UK get out of CPTPP membership?

The government has still not conducted an assessment of the economic impact of joining CPTPP. Its most recent policy paper on the subject just gives figures for how much trade the UK does in the region already and what percentage of tariffs would be eliminated under the agreement – which says little about what benefits would actually accrue to the UK.

The benefits of joining the CPTPP are also likely to depend on how successful the UK is at replacing, or ‘rolling over’, the existing FTAs it enjoys as an EU member state. The EU has signed FTAs with all of the CPTPP countries except Malaysia, Brunei, Australia and New Zealand, which the UK is therefore party to until the transition period ends. If the UK is able to roll over these existing EU–CPTPP agreements – admittedly far from guaranteed given the cool responses to the suggestion from Canada, Japan, Mexico, Singapore and Vietnam – the benefits of CPTPP membership could become quite limited.

Expand  

 

That article is from last July; but the latest official HMG policy paper on the matter is dated 17th June! 

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

2 hours ago, transam said:

1939 was a nightmare for the UK to begin with, but we prevailed, so stop worrying yourself.....

And again your obsessions show.

 He is not alone. Many Brexiteers appear to believe that VE day was the 23rd June 2016, not the 8th May 1945!

 

That and the faded dreams of Empire are all they have to sustain them as their dreams of a UK post Brexit paradise crumble into reality.

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Farage was 11 then. As a UK citizen he was quite rightly entitled to late entry into the fray. If you look at his stance on the EU it has been consistent and unwavering. 

 Where did I say differently?

 

The fact remains; criticism of the 1975 result began virtually as the polls closed. But as we are a democracy, such criticism is a fundamental right all citizens here enjoy.

 

Despite your and your mates' wish to deny it to us.

 

16 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I think you joined these Brexit chats way after the referendum, so I will update you, any insults in here were all instigated by remainers and it took some time for leavers to respond in kind.

You are wrong; on both counts.

 

I was being called a traitor for arguing for remain on here during the campaign!

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 He is not alone. Many Brexiteers appear to believe that VE day was the 23rd June 2016, not the 8th May 1945!

 

That and the faded dreams of Empire are all they have to sustain them as their dreams of a UK post Brexit paradise crumble into reality.

 

Nah. 2016 was VB day.

[Hi from France]

11 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The EU to change their approach on agriculture and standards make get rid of the common agricultural policy that will go down like a lead balloon with the French

It's not a French issue : the whole geography of Europe is inadapted to compete against the massive agriculture you find in the USA or Brazil.

 

An interesting thing to do will be to follow up on Brexiteers promises on the "fantastic deals" with Brazil or the USA.

The UK will be asked to give/sacrifice something if they want to export their Services.

 

@vinny41"You can sacrifice your agriculture or your NHS. Which one do you choose? Both?" 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Where did I say differently?

 

The fact remains; criticism of the 1975 result began virtually as the polls closed. But as we are a democracy, such criticism is a fundamental right all citizens here enjoy.

 

Despite your and your mates' wish to deny it to us.

 

You are wrong; on both counts.

 

I was being called a traitor for arguing for remain on here during the campaign!

 

Of course there was immediate criticism in 1975. So what?

 

I'm not wrong. Insults were the property of remainers and your TV ID was not prominent in the Brexit threads, if present at all.

 

 

[7by7]

More news on the 'benefits' of Brexit to the UK!

 

Irish Sea Border: Mixed food loads pose problems for traders

Quote

"Groupage" is a type of haulage where goods from different companies for different customers are grouped together on one lorry........

One NI business has had nine haulage firms refuse to collect groupage loads of meat from GB suppliers........

Food products such as meat, milk and fish now need to be certified by vets when moving from GB to NI.......

When the certificates are issued the lorry trailer is supposed to be sealed.

That is relatively straightforward when one company in GB is sending a load directly to another company in NI.

However, a groupage movement could involve picking up goods from several different warehouses with loads potentially moving from one lorry to another along the way.

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Of course there was immediate criticism in 1975. So what?

Indeed, as I have repeatedly said; criticism is part of democracy. Nice to see that you agree with me on that.

 

Can you try and convince @transam? His constant "you should back your country" type of remarks prove he doesn't agree with you and are what prompted my original remark about criticism of 1975's result.

 

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'm not wrong. Insults were the property of remainers and your TV ID was not prominent in the Brexit threads, if present at all.

You are wrong; on both counts.

[vinny41]

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

It's not a French issue : the whole geography of Europe is inadapted to compete against the massive agriculture you find in the USA or Brazil.

 

An interesting thing to do will be to follow up on Brexiteers promises on the "fantastic deals" with Brazil or the USA.

The UK will be asked to give/sacrifice something if they want to export their Services.

 

@vinny41"You can sacrifice your agriculture or your NHS. Which one do you choose? Both?" 

Not sure why you are mentioning Brazil or the USA as The CPTPP is a high-quality free trade agreement which binds together Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, Singapore, Vietnam, Mexico, Malaysia, Peru, Chile and Brunei.

Brazil and the USA are not members of the CPTPP trade agreement

 

Here was the French response when the EU suggested budget cuts to CAP

But France, by far the largest beneficiary of the CAP, said the proposals were unacceptable and stressed they were only a starting point for negotiations.

“For Stephane Travert, the Agriculture and Food Minister, such a drastic, massive and blind cut is simply unthinkable,” the ministry said in a statement.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-budget-agriculture/eu-proposes-to-cut-farm-subsidies-france-says-unacceptable-idUSKBN1I31XB

[7by7]

There's more: UK industry bids farewell to EU's Galileo system

Quote

Britain left the project on its departure from the EU.

Its "third country" status means home companies can no longer be involved in the way they once were. Galileo is regarded by the Union as a security programme and only firms in its 27 member states can take on sensitive work - such as payload integration.

 

Current negotiations mean we may still be able to participate in the Copernicus project; but at a cost

Quote

It would see Britain pay a subscription of roughly €800m (£710m) over seven years, which would give it full access to Copernicus services and the ability for its companies to bid for industrial work.

Hmmm. From free access when we were a member, to paying over £100* million a year! Aint Brexit wonderful?

 

*Edited to correct poor maths. See @stevenl's post below.

My bad, and thanks, Steve.

Edited January 15, 2021 by 7by7

[stevenl]

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

There's more: UK industry bids farewell to EU's Galileo system

 

Current negotiations mean we may still be able to participate in the Copernicus project; but at a cost

Hmmm. From free access when we were a member, to paying over £10 million a year! Aint Brexit wonderful?

Should be 100 million per year.

[nauseus]

Just now, stevenl said:

Should be 100 million per year.

 

We get GPS for free. Why worry?

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

We get GPS for free. Why worry?

 

Two reasons to worry.

 

Companies like Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd have lost a lot of business. Loss of business leads to redundancies and unemployment.

 

Plus the £100 million a year we UK taxpayers will have to pay to remain in Copernicus. Hardly free!

 

But you've got your free GPS, so you're all right, Jack!

 

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

We get GPS for free. Why worry?

 

You don't get accurate GPS - as fine pinpointing would be very useful in battlefield conditions, the US reserves the highest GPS accuracy for it's own troops. Similarly this is why the UK (of all people) insisted that non-EU members could not be part of Galileo,

 

But it's not this the UK wants accurate GPS for, but for road pricing, to be able to charge people more for using the busiest roads     

[CG1 Blue]

10 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Well, colour me shocked! I thought Brexit was all about taking back control - I didn't realise that the control was then to be handed over to big business. Well done Brexiteers, your corporate overlords thank you are laughing at you.

 

UK workers’ rights at risk in plans to rip up EU labour market rules

Worker protections enshrined in EU law — including the 48-hour week — would be ripped up under plans being drawn up by the government as part of a post-Brexit overhaul of UK labour markets. 

The package of deregulatory measures is being put together by the UK’s business department with the approval of Downing Street, according to people familiar with the matter. It has not yet been agreed by ministers — or put to the cabinet — but select business leaders have been sounded out on the plan.

I can't read the article because it's behind a pay wall. 

 

Presumably it's all speculation at this point? I'm sure any changes made will be to the benefit of UK companies and the UK economy. A lot of EU directives were designed to stop hard working Brits from outperforming lazier workers in certain EU countries. 

 

Besides, going forward if changes to workers' rights are not popular with the British public the party in power will be booted out at the next election. That's the beauty of Brexit ????

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I can't read the article because it's behind a pay wall.

 

Try UK workers’ rights at risk in plans to tear up EU labour market rules from Yahoo.

 

16 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Presumably it's all speculation at this point?

Informed speculation; so informed that newly appointed business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng has had to issue a statement defending them.

 

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I'm sure any changes made will be to the benefit of UK companies and the UK economy.

Shareholders of UK companies? For sure.

 

UK economy? Maybe.

 

UK workers? No.

 

19 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

A lot of EU directives were designed to stop hard working Brits from outperforming lazier workers in certain EU countries.

Now that is pure, ill informed speculation. Unless you can back it up with some facts?

 

20 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Besides, going forward if changes to workers' rights are not popular with the British public the party in power will be booted out at the next election. That's the beauty of Brexit ????

The Tories may win the next election; but it won't be with Boris in charge.

 

Bookies have Starmer at 2/1 for next PM, with Sunak at 9/4. My money's on Sunak as the Tories know they have to ditch Boris before the next election if they want to hold onto any chance of winning it.

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

“For Stephane Travert, the Agriculture and Food Minister, such a drastic, massive and blind cut is simply unthinkable,” the ministry said in a statement.

it is, not just for France.

 

Now I do not think this EU-CPTPP hypothesis is serious anyway

 

 

 

@7by7 thanks for the article on Galileo/Copernicus

 

.

 

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Hi from France

[Hi from France]

On the visa nightmare for musicians the uk government and the EU have been blaming one another 

 

Now if you look it up and check the documents, who is lying? 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/michel-barnier-brexit-touring-artists-work-permit-visa-free-travel/

 

 

Now the UE seems willing to give another chance 

Quote

Barnier said he had hoped the British side would eventually agree on new mobility arrangements as the EU had proposed, but that they had refused. "I regretted that British people did not have more ambition on mobility between us," Barnier said.