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UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal


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Sadly amusing to see that the "debate" has not altered much !

Well done Boris for achieving a deal  with a  Sunday to  spare!

Now that (as a previous poster put it) the end of the beginning is done and the term "Brexit" is redundant no doubt the customary wrangles of opinion will surface yet as to the impact but hopefully under a new title!

Four years of  media bashing needs the change.

My prediction is that UK defenders and dissenters will find some common ground in the rough ride ahead as the pinch is applied !

Good Luck and Seasons Greetings .

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, vogie said:

Not too sure about that, it seems when they found a way to get Mr Macron out of the precedings and his attempt to steamroller the talks things started to go a little smoother. He was released from quarentine yesterday just in time for Christmas, coincidence......we may never know.

Could be.

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But... but... the Eurovision Song Contest? We had to stay in order to take part as a full and equal member. Now we'll be optional. We won in 1967, 1969, 1976, 1981 and 1997 and we could have won again! I admit that the past 20 years have been rocky, but we were coming back! We were contenders! We were... were... macro-biotic... vegan... ISO-9000... were...$%#@(&#... were...

 

I'm sorry. My Auto-Sarcasm emitter has malfunctioned. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible... NURSE! More medication please!

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7 minutes ago, Narratio said:

But... but... the Eurovision Song Contest? We had to stay in order to take part as a full and equal member. Now we'll be optional. We won in 1967, 1969, 1976, 1981 and 1997 and we could have won again! I admit that the past 20 years have been rocky, but we were coming back! We were contenders! We were... were... macro-biotic... vegan... ISO-9000... were...$%#@(&#... were...

 

I'm sorry. My Auto-Sarcasm emitter has malfunctioned. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible... NURSE! More medication please!

The U.K. wasn’t in EEC, never mind a “full member”, in 1967 or 1969...

 

Ho Ho Ho 

Edited by Bluespunk
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6 hours ago, Hi from France said:

this is not my understanding

 

what I believe is that EU EEZ quota is the same now as before (let's call it 100%) and will be progressively phased out by -25% (lets call it 75%) in 5 1/2 years.

 

After that date the deal will be renegotiated each year. So "il va y avoir du sport", it will be Brexit all over again, with arbitration, tariffs, the EU threatening retaliations..

 

 

 

UE fishermen keep access to the 6-12 miles (this are territorial waters not just EEZ) until 2026.

 

 

 

 

Belgian fishermen for example have a very small fishing zone: 80% of their catches originate in british zones, so you can imagine what getting from a 75% quota to 0% would do

 

 

to get back and hopefully agree on the interpretation of the deal for fishing you answered 

Quote

25% of EU boats' fishing rights in UK waters will be transferred to the UK fishing fleet, over a period of five-and-a-half years

EU fishing quota in UK waters will be reduced by 15% in the first year and 2.5 percentage points each year after.

After the transition ends, the UK will have the right to withdraw EU boats' access to UK waters.

https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558

 

right now

  • a rule of thumb is that 50% of the fish from UK waters is caught be the EU (and goes to the EU market, not the british market)
  • now lets call the present share of the EU 100%
  • EEZ quota is 100% and will be progressively phased out by -25% (lets call it 75%) in 5 1/2 years

 

in 5 1/2 years

  • 75% is the "normal EU share" it's here to stay,
  • BUT the UK is, as always sovereign 
    • if the sovereign UK decides to cut back a little on the EU share, the arbitration committee decides what the EU can do in return (i.e. raise tariffs to compensate) so that there is no benefit for the UK as a result
    • if the sovereign UK decides to cut back a lot on the 75% the termination clause kicks in and we have a not deal-brexit, I do not see that happening for obvious reasons

 

I take it that we are in agreement for the interpretation this chapter now?

 

 

 

Now the problem for me is still to find what big prize the UK got in return for this major concession: no access to the energy market, no Erasmus (we'll get back on Erasmus), access to the Schengen criminal/terrorist database is lost...

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

 

 

to get back and hopefully agree on the interpretation of the deal for fishing you answered 

 

right now

  • a rule of thumb is that 50% of the fish from UK waters is caught be the EU (and goes to the EU market, not the british market)
  • now lets call the present share of the EU 100%
  • EEZ quota is 100% and will be progressively phased out by -25% (lets call it 75%) in 5 1/2 years

 

in 5 1/2 years

  • 75% is the "normal EU share" it's here to stay,
  • BUT the UK is, as always sovereign 
    • if the sovereign UK decides to cut back a little on the EU share, the arbitration committee decides what the EU can do in return (i.e. raise tariffs to compensate) so that there is no benefit for the UK as a result
    • if the sovereign UK decides to cut back a lot on the 75% the termination clause kicks in and we have a not deal-brexit, I do not see that happening for obvious reasons

 

I take it that we are in agreement for the interpretation this chapter now?

 

 

 

Now the problem for me is still to find what big prize the UK got in return for this major concession: no access to the energy market, no Erasmus (we'll get back on Erasmus), access to the Schengen criminal/terrorist database is lost...

 

 

 

The other question that needs answering is how much of the catch does the UK actually eat, and how much of it is shipped to the EU market.   i.e. if there was no deal with the EU on fishing, how much of that fish would rot on the docks or get transformed into processed fish (at a much lower market value overall).

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14 minutes ago, david555 said:

 

I donot see anything about agricultural levies, the KILL for every fresh fish, meat and dairy, wheat + sugar holding foods ( = confectionary, cookies) . This "protected" the EU for decades against imports of these products.

 

"details, details, details"

Edited by puipuitom
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31 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The other question that needs answering is how much of the catch does the UK actually eat, and how much of it is shipped to the EU market.   i.e. if there was no deal with the EU on fishing, how much of that fish would rot on the docks or get transformed into processed fish (at a much lower market value overall).

 

About 80% is exported to the EU.

 

All fish imports into the EU MUST be accompanied with a certificate under the EU fish allowances. Without.. forget it. Ask all Thai, Vietnamese etc fish + shrimp +.. exporters to the EU. Also how long it lasts till they got it...

 

Without this, the UK fishery industry will be bankrupt in 6 months. 

 

"details, details,  details"

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9 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

 

About 80% is exported to the EU.

 

All fish imports into the EU MUST be accompanied with a certificate under the EU fish allowances. Without.. forget it. Ask all Thai, Vietnamese etc fish + shrimp +.. exporters to the EU. Also how long it lasts till they got it...

 

Without this, the UK fishery industry will be bankrupt in 6 months. 

 

"details, details,  details"

Those "details"  shall be now be  scrutinized by the ERG  's " Star Chamber "  (Conservatives' lawyers ) ......

Edited by david555
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29 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

 

About 80% is exported to the EU.

 

All fish imports into the EU MUST be accompanied with a certificate under the EU fish allowances. Without.. forget it. Ask all Thai, Vietnamese etc fish + shrimp +.. exporters to the EU. Also how long it lasts till they got it...

 

Without this, the UK fishery industry will be bankrupt in 6 months. 

 

"details, details,  details"

don't  know where you got your 80% figure from I have noticed that pro-eu supporters don't like to back up their claims with a verifiable source. as you state details details details one must assume no verifiable source means no details

In 2019, the UK fishing industry exported more than 333,000 tonnes of fish to the EU. That accounts for nearly half of the total catch of the UK fishing fleet and roughly three quarters of total fish exports from the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558

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For any that are wondering...

Statement on Gibraltar future relationship

Quote

A statement on Gibraltar future relationship.

 

And here's yesterday's 'full monty' from Boris including a video clip...

Prime Minister's statement on EU negotiations: 24 December 2020

Quote

Prime Minister Boris Johnson gave a statement on the outcome of negotiations with the European Union.

 

Edited by evadgib
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Difficult to believe posters on this forum actually expect from 'far apart on major issues' to 'a deal' will include hard and fast detail, the agreement is the concept, the details will be revised and adjusted for years!!!

 

Just like those intimating people in the UK are not expecting change, are also wrong. Too many too quick to insult the intelligence of the British, based on the fact the decision to leave the EU was made

 

Lets see if the EU has garnered a deal all member states will accept, or actually agreed the principle, but the hard and fast details can is hoofed down the road.

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1 hour ago, puipuitom said:

 

I donot see anything about agricultural levies, the KILL for every fresh fish, meat and dairy, wheat + sugar holding foods ( = confectionary, cookies) . This "protected" the EU for decades against imports of these products.

 

"details, details, details"

Did you read your own attachment as clearly states "No tariffs"

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Education and Universities is big business in the UK, a whole industry has developed over this for international students admissions and fees, so the immediate consequences would mean pricing out the "middle class" in favor of a richer elite (usually from Eastern Europe authoritarian states and other African nations)

 

For asia, a big market the UK education industry, losing the benefit for free movement in Europe for UK international students is definitely a loss of value for them.

Edited by GrandPapillon
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4 hours ago, Narratio said:

But... but... the Eurovision Song Contest? We had to stay in order to take part as a full and equal member. Now we'll be optional. We won in 1967, 1969, 1976, 1981 and 1997 and we could have won again! I admit that the past 20 years have been rocky, but we were coming back! We were contenders! We were... were... macro-biotic... vegan... ISO-9000... were...$%#@(&#... were...

 

I'm sorry. My Auto-Sarcasm emitter has malfunctioned. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible... NURSE! More medication please!

Sorry your post gets 'No Points'

????????

And from Macron

Pas de points.

Edited by overherebc
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