UK PM Johnson could lose his seat and majority at next election - poll

[natway09]

When in the next 5 months it becomes evident that the Brexit deal will hurt just about every man in the street 

& his bumbling lack of intestinal fortitude of the virus  handling as the song says "he'll will have to go "

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

The fishermen made a big deal out of it and the die hard brexiteers on the forum said they would never accept the EU rules for fair play. But he gave in on both issues and dressed it up as a victory (not strange all politicians do that not just BJ)

 

In the UK papers the fishermen were really angry about this (just look it up)

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/

 

Read the whole grisly story about UK fishing quotas. Most sold into foreign hands by UK fishermen themselves. It's complete nonsense such a tiny industry should have dominated brexit talks. The whole industry is, or was, a mess. But it was a typical heist by the likes of Farage and co to seize on this emotive issue (British waters, white cliffs of Dover etc etc) and start the BS fest. Just Google UK fishing quotas.

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, JoePai said:

What a stupid article, 3 years is a millennium in politics, heck lets over this Covid thing first before worrying who will get into number 10 next

 

Agreed - who can possibly foretell with any accuracy at this stage the issues which will be at the forefront of voters' minds as they troop to their polling stations in December 2024? There was certainly no inkling even this time a year ago that COVID-19 would have become the major issue it has!

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So there we have it, Brexit is over but most Remainers aka Rejoiners can only talk about brickbats and butt hurt instead of pondering why Johnson's political future may be open to question. On the other side of the tent, we have the No-dealers who somehow feel more betrayed and aggrieved than the other lot. Meanwhile, the vast majority of sane and moderate Leavers are probably still celebrating (while remaining within the safe social distancing rules).

 

"There's nowt queerer than fowk" as granny would say.

OK, so you do didn’t read the OP.

[KhaoYai]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

UK PM Johnson could lose his seat and majority at next election - poll

And so he should.  He was widely described as a buffoon before he was elected and he has proved to be just that.  the man is a proven liar, has gone back on several election promises and 'railroaded' his policies through.

 

On several occasions he shown that he doesn't know what's going on, got his facts wrong and had to u-turn on many items - not the qualities required of a Prime Minister.  His cabinet consists of people given their positions because they supported him on Brexit, not because of their ability to do the job. Watch them on TV - bunch of dithering idiots!

 

I am ashamed to say that I voted for him but I did so because at the time, the alternative was to put Labour in power and endure many more years of arguing about Brexit.

 

I just hope that at the next election we have some credible alternatives.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

Like, the UK can pass anti covid vaccinations using our own standards, we dont need to wait for the E.Us approval

You mean: an emergency procedure, and simply skip all scrutiny by UK health officials

Bye-the-way: as every EU member state was and is allowed to do.

Big chance however, these vaccins are o.K. 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   I do recall that "people on the forum" had the opinion that they would prefer to have no deal, rather than a bad deal that favoured the E.U .

   Rather than straight forward not wanting a deal 

A number of Brexiteers on this forum categorically stated they wanted no deal.

[RuamRudy]

5 hours ago, transam said:

And why not, even the new lefty leader represented terrorists in court, just a job...

 

I don't recall you being so upset that £1 billion of taxpayers' money was given to terrorist supporters in return for their backing for Brexit. Are you happy to throw your weight behind those terrorist supporters with whom you have common goals?

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, Sujo said:

so you dont like democracy as well. That figures.

I don't think we've found a better system yet but democracy has its flaws.  Perhaps the biggest of which is that governments make decisions based on their effect on future votes - rather than whether they will be good for the country or not.  Sometimes democratic governments need to introduce policies that are likely to be very unpopular - they rarely do though. Johnson proposes policies then retracts them if people start shouting.

 

On the face of it communism should provide Utopia but it fails because of greed and/or laziness. Socialism is much the same.

 

But are any of these systems actually what they claim to be?  For example, does Thailand have true democracy? Is everyone in North Korea equal?

[adammike]

5 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

The Daily Telegraph is a conservative centre-right ( for some, right wing ) newspaper.

 

Many believe it write biased stories, read by right wingers who want to read stories that match their beliefs.

 

However both newspapers contain very interesting articles,  to fully appreciate them, one has to read them without a prejudiced approach.

Trouble is the Telegraph is behind a paywall,so you need to pay to read the "interesting articles" . There's no way I am paying them.I will stick with my Guardian and Independent subscriptions.

Did the guardian conduct the poll in question or just report it? A mate wants to know.

[Loiner]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A number of Brexiteers on this forum categorically stated they wanted no deal.

Plenty said that, me included. At some points it looked like there would only be a bad deal for the UK, in which case No Deal was infinitely better. Remember the slogan: No Deal is better than a bad deal. It was all true.

 

In the end, the deal is acceptable in many areas on which the UK will now thrive and prosper. 

[CorpusChristie]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A number of Brexiteers on this forum categorically stated they wanted no deal.

 

   Yes, the "Heavy mob"

Quite beneficial and important to have them in the background, when negotiating with the E.U

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Plenty said that, me included. At some points it looked like there would only be a bad deal for the UK, in which case No Deal was infinitely better. Remember the slogan: No Deal is better than a bad deal. It was all true.

 

In the end, the deal is acceptable in many areas on which the UK will now thrive and prosper. 

What was the bad deal and how has the EU given in that you now all of a sudden think its a good deal ?

 

I mean you did not get your fishing rights as you wanted and you still have to follow EU standards for access to the market. Those where things you seemed to dislike a lot. But the EU did not really give in on the fair playing field principle. The fishing was a compromise on both sides.

What made you change your mind from no deal to this is a good deal ?

Edited January 3, 2021 by robblok

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

   Yes, the "Heavy mob"

Quite beneficial and important to have them in the background, when negotiating with the E.U

Why then did you before pretend that you did not know them ? Ask me to name them.

[adammike]

33 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

Agreed - who can possibly foretell with any accuracy at this stage the issues which will be at the forefront of voters' minds as they troop to their polling stations in December 2024? There was certainly no inkling even this time a year ago that COVID-19 would have become the major issue it has!

Anniversaries of deaths of family members,The pressure that's been put upon health care workers.The stress about mums and dads and grandparents in care homes.The disaster that's been education.Not forgetting any problems that may arise now that the UK is actually out.The upcoming row about the Billions the government have given to their mates,may focus minds come the next election.Feel free to add to the list. 

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, andyg75 said:

Why do they read about British things,if I saw. a thread about Holland or France I wouldn’t bother reading it.British things to them is like some sort of magnet,

First of all: Holland is the strip in the west of the nation called since 1815: Netherlands.

2) The well-being of our trade/neighbours DOES interest me, as it influences my own life. Especially the nation on the other side of the herring & mackerel pool.

[Kadilo]

Just now, puipuitom said:

First of all: Holland is the strip in the west of the nation called since 1815: Netherlands.

2) The well-being of our trade/neighbours DOES interest me, as it influences my own life. Especially the nation on the other side of the herring & mackerel pool.

I think you can see a noticeable difference just in one present discussion, and previous ones on this subject between how a European thinks/attitude vs an Englishman. 

 

Maybe only a snapshot on here but in my experience pretty typical. 

 

[CorpusChristie]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Why then did you before pretend that you did not know them ? Ask me to name them.

 

  We were talking about "people on the forum" , some people out there in real life exist as well .

"People on the forum" seemed to want a deal , but prefeed a no deal to a bad deal .

It got to a stage after about two/three years of negotiations , that "people on the forum" and in real life, just wanted to leave , stop the negotiations and just leave .

   Yes, a deal would have been preferable , but no deal seemed like the only solution (at the time)

[Chivas]

Johnson will certainly lose his seat he's been simply catastrophic but I suspect the Tories will cling on to power though.

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

This is impressive.

I counted 50+.

As these papers exist, they must have readers.

Which mean there are a lot of "left" sympathizers in the U.K..

Look at the titles though. These aren't on new stands all over the country.Most of them are either subscription or  bundled with a Union membership. Hardly the stuff to taint the minds of the young and the restless. More like weekend couch reading for the old and and bitter.

[BritManToo]

If they sacked any world leader that didn't handle COVID well, they'd all be gone tomorrow.

[CorpusChristie]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

You mean before he sold his fishermen out and accepted EU standards ? Things he said he would not. 

 

  He got a better deal for the fisherman , the French have to reduce their fishing fleet in UK waters and UK fishermen are still allowed to fish in French waters .

  The UK fishermen didnt get what they fully wanted, but what they have now is better than what they had under E.U rules

[Eloquent pilgrim]

2 hours ago, bradiston said:

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2018/10/11/fishing-quota-uk-defra-michael-gove/

 

Read the whole grisly story about UK fishing quotas. Most sold into foreign hands by UK fishermen themselves. It's complete nonsense such a tiny industry should have dominated brexit talks. The whole industry is, or was, a mess. But it was a typical heist by the likes of Farage and co to seize on this emotive issue (British waters, white cliffs of Dover etc etc) and start the BS fest. Just Google UK fishing quotas.

Hi … not sure if you are from the UK, or what knowledge you have of the history of the UK’s fishing industry, but it certainly was not tiny before we joined the EEC (later to morph into the EU) We are an island nation, surrounded by some of the richest fishing seas in the world and our decimated fishing industry will now hopefully be able to regenerate, as will the waters, particularly the North Sea, that has been all but emptied by huge industrial trawlers from EU member states.

 

 

When we joined the EEC, and now with the release of Government papers under the 30 year rule, we know that Geoffrey Rippon, fisheries minister at the time, told Ted Heath, Prime Minister at the time, "If we want to enter the EEC (as it was then known) we will have to sacrifice Britain's fishermen” ……… Determined to join at all costs, that is exactly what the traitor did.

 

The Common Fisheries policy was hastily introduced by the original 6 members at the instigation of France, at the time that Britain was negotiating membership. It was a simple ploy by the member states to give all members equal fishing rights to UK territorial waters, reducing the protection zone of our fishermen’s rights to 12 miles from the coastline from its previous 200.

 

It also introduced an absurd quota system that has not only seen millions upon millions of fish thrown back into the sea for gulls to feed on, but has resulted in our fishing industry, that was the largest in all of Europe, being completely decimated, leaving huge unemployment and poverty in towns like Hull and Grimsby, the latter once being the largest fishing port in the world, yes indeed, the largest fishing port in the ???? ……

 

…. thanks

Edited January 3, 2021 by Eloquent pilgrim
typo

[Thingamabob]

Far too early to be holding polls. It will be more interesting to do so in 3 years or so. Boris has won an 80 seat majority in parliament having survived a near death illness, and more recently a 300 plus majority in parliament for the Brexit deal. He still appears to be popular, and I doubt he'll be ousted any time soon.

[Chomper Higgot]

26 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Hi … not sure if you are from the UK, or what knowledge you have of the history of the UK’s fishing industry, but it certainly was not tiny before we joined the EEC (later to morph into the EU) We are an island nation, surrounded by some of the richest fishing seas in the world and our decimated fishing industry will now hopefully be able to regenerate, as will the waters, particularly the North Sea, that has been all but emptied by huge industrial trawlers from EU member states.

 

 

When we joined the EEC, and now with the release of Government papers under the 30 year rule, we know that Geoffrey Rippon, fisheries minister at the time, told Ted Heath, Prime Minister at the time, "If we want to enter the EEC (as it was then known) we will have to sacrifice Britain's fishermen” ……… Determined to join at all costs, that is exactly what the traitor did.

 

The Common Fisheries policy was hastily introduced by the original 6 members at the instigation of France, at the time that Britain was negotiating membership. It was a simple ploy by the member states to give all members equal fishing rights to UK territorial waters, reducing the protection zone of our fishermen’s rights to 12 miles from the coastline from its previous 200.

 

It also introduced an absurd quota system that has not only seen millions upon millions of fish thrown back into the sea for gulls to feed on, but has resulted in our fishing industry, that was the largest in all of Europe, being completely decimated, leaving huge unemployment and poverty in towns like Hull and Grimsby, the latter once being the largest fishing port in the world, yes indeed, the largest fishing port in the ???? ……

 

…. thanks

At the time of the UK joining the ‘common market’ UK fishing ‘catches’ were in sharp decline due to over fishing.

[simple1]

33 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Hi … not sure if you are from the UK, or what knowledge you have of the history of the UK’s fishing industry, but it certainly was not tiny before we joined the EEC (later to morph into the EU) We are an island nation, surrounded by some of the richest fishing seas in the world and our decimated fishing industry will now hopefully be able to regenerate, as will the waters, particularly the North Sea, that has been all but emptied by huge industrial trawlers from EU member states.

 

 

When we joined the EEC, and now with the release of Government papers under the 30 year rule, we know that Geoffrey Rippon, fisheries minister at the time, told Ted Heath, Prime Minister at the time, "If we want to enter the EEC (as it was then known) we will have to sacrifice Britain's fishermen” ……… Determined to join at all costs, that is exactly what the traitor did.

 

The Common Fisheries policy was hastily introduced by the original 6 members at the instigation of France, at the time that Britain was negotiating membership. It was a simple ploy by the member states to give all members equal fishing rights to UK territorial waters, reducing the protection zone of our fishermen’s rights to 12 miles from the coastline from its previous 200.

 

It also introduced an absurd quota system that has not only seen millions upon millions of fish thrown back into the sea for gulls to feed on, but has resulted in our fishing industry, that was the largest in all of Europe, being completely decimated, leaving huge unemployment and poverty in towns like Hull and Grimsby, the latter once being the largest fishing port in the world, yes indeed, the largest fishing port in the ???? ……

 

…. thanks

 

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

At the time of the UK joining the ‘common market’ UK fishing ‘catches’ were in sharp decline due to over fishing.

 

The member's history recap is 'so what' as Brexit did not resolve UK fishing operators grivances to their satisfaction; n fact they are 'furious' at the outcome.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/28/betrayed-uk-fishing-industry-says-brexit-deal-threatens-long-term-damage

[candide]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

It also introduced an absurd quota system

I don't see why it was absurd as stock of several species (i.e. cod) was heading towards extinction. The quota system allowed replenishing stock.

https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/ICES_ASC/state-of-fish-stocks-in-the-northeast-atlantic-the-north-sea-and-the-baltic-sea-50507457

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2016/05/28/dont-blame-the-eu-for-the-troubles-of-the-fishing-industry-in-the-uk/

[Loiner]

35 minutes ago, candide said:

I don't see why it was absurd as stock of several species (i.e. cod) was heading towards extinction. The quota system allowed replenishing stock.

Very definitely an absurd EU system. 

Some estimates have 1 million tonnes of fish and sea life thrown back each year. EU member states - including the UK - were required to throw some fish back into the water, as pollution. 

This controversial practice was known as "discarding" and involved returning unwanted catches back to sea (dead or alive) because they were too small or because the crew had exceeded their quota - the amount of fish they were allowed to catch.

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

 

The member's history recap is 'so what' as Brexit did not resolve UK fishing operators grivances to their satisfaction; n fact they are 'furious' at the outcome.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/28/betrayed-uk-fishing-industry-says-brexit-deal-threatens-long-term-damage

Barry Deas wanted

Control over access to fish within the EEZ

Access negotiated as part of annual fisheries agreements

12-mile exclusive limit

Quota shares that reflect the resources in UK waters

Access to market without surrendering fishing rights

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1376153/brexit-news-fishing-uk-eu-boris-johnson-michel-barnier-trade-deal-fisheries

 

So he wanted access to eu markets  without surrendering fishing rights

That was never going to happen he is  living in  cloud cuckoo land

[adammike]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Far too early to be holding polls. It will be more interesting to do so in 3 years or so. Boris has won an 80 seat majority in parliament having survived a near death illness, and more recently a 300 plus majority in parliament for the Brexit deal. He still appears to be popular, and I doubt he'll be ousted any time soon.

It was a survey of more than 22,000 people, conducted by the research data company Focaldata,using the multilevel regression and post-stratification (MRP) method.I copied that from the independent.It was first published in the Sunday times and then the Guardian and others.

Tories 284 seats, Labour 282 the SP winning 57 of the 59 Scottish seats.The LibDems down to 2 seats.Light at the end of the tunnel maybe.

Who is going to be first to put up a 10k wager on the result ?come on MGDN.