'Brexit carnage': shellfish trucks protest in London over export chaos

[Surelynot]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Cadbury's Smashmen advert?

No....but I do love the Cadbury's chocolate one with the gorilla.

[Stupooey]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

David Cameron was probably the best person to manage our way out of the EU...... shame that he batted for "the other side" of the Brexit vote.

 

 

I am not against referendums per se, you cannot argue that they are not democratic (although a General Election may have the same effect if the main parties are polarised) - one thing I have learned is that something like a 60% "yes" vote should be required.  I would apply that to a Scottish independence vote as well.

 

Probably agree with you on the 60/40 split, no arguments there. The 50%+1 method is hardly democratic (which requiressome sort or a consensus), except maybe when choosing the colour of the toilet paper in the Ladies at the golf club.

[hotandsticky]

5 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

Probably agree with you on the 60/40 split, no arguments there. The 50%+1 method is hardly democratic (which requires some sort or a consensus), except maybe when choosing the colour of the toilet paper in the Ladies at the golf club.

 

 

.... or the winner of a horse race !   ????

 

 

First past the post has always the democratic way in UK politics so we cannot argue at 52/48. However, for something fairly radical, that is determined by a referendum, then I think that "a clear majority" is preferable. 60/40 IMO is a clear majority.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

David Cameron did say many stupid things, but that was because he didn't believe for one moment that the vote would go the way it did

Have you got evidence for this or is it just your opinion.

 

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

As for 'one winner one loser', what has that to do with democracy

Well if you don't know whats the point. It was a simple stay or leave not lets stay in for 48% of the way.  Binary win or lose. Everyone had the opportunity to make an informed choice

and we get the constant whining, well not all the population voted.

 

Its a democracy to have a choice to vote or not. If you don't put your vote in you can't complain.

 

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

I hope it means we never again have a nationwide referendum.

I totally disagree. It was a democratic decision. Too many Wokes who can't accept a straight answer in or out. I am convinced if it was remain that won you would be happy with the referendum.

 

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

There are very good reasons we have only had three since the time of Simon de Montfort!

Yes dictators say that when they don't want to change.  How ironic it is, fine to have a referendum to take us into the EU but we shouldn't have one to take us out. Do you see the hypocrisy.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Laughing Gravy

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

.... or the winner of a horse race !   ????

 

 

First past the post has always the democratic way in UK politics so we cannot argue at 52/48. However, for something fairly radical, that is determined by a referendum, then I think that "a clear majority" is preferable. 60/40 IMO is a clear majority.

Then you will have to face the music when 59% of the electorate are denied something because 41% don't want it!

 

I suppose you could always fall back on: " too old to vote, you clearly didn't understand what you voted for, the situation has changed, you are not sufficiently educated to decide" and so on.

 

I'm sorry, but if you are to claim that you are a democracy, and you employ referendums to decide specific areas of national endeavour ( we do both in the UK) then you have to accept a simple majority. Once you start "qualifying the electorates decision" then you simply aren't a democracy any more.

 

It's a b*st*rd if you are on the losing side, but there you are!

The price you pay for living in a democracy!

Edited January 20, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[youreavinalaff]

19 hours ago, Sujo said:

Its strange that brexiteers laud the leaving of the eu, but dont want scotland having a vote to leave the uk.

 

much hipocracy.

Scotland has already had a vote. It was the Scots that voted against independence, not Brexiteers.

 

[pacovl46]

22 hours ago, transam said:

You don't know that, your click doesn't know that, all you know is, you can't stop smarting, and it hurts. 

But, chin up chap, you never know, one of the EU minnows may one day match the cash you lost from the UK...

All the indicators say it wasn’t good!  
 

The cash the EU lost from the UK?! You gotta be kidding me! How about the 1.6 trillion the UK lost alone due to the banks that moved from London to Frankfurt?! 
 

Also, the UK is tiny in comparison to the EU! So what are you talking about? I think it’s time you need to take off your blinders and have a good look at the reality! 

Edited January 20, 2021 by pacovl46

[Stupooey]

2 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

.... or the winner of a horse race !   ????

 

 

First past the post has always the democratic way in UK politics so we cannot argue at 52/48. However, for something fairly radical, that is determined by a referendum, then I think that "a clear majority" is preferable. 60/40 IMO is a clear majority.

 

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which means that we elect people better informed than ourselves (if they aren't, then it's our fault for electing them!) to make the important decisions on our behalf. In 2015 the UK voting public elected MPs, over 75% of whom thought it was in the Country's best interest to remain in the EU (including 97% of Labour MPs, unfortunately not including Corbyn, which proved decisive), who one year later were expected to abandon their convictions and principles, and support the result of a poorly organised plebiscite. This is not at all what I understand by 'the democratic way in UK politics'.

[transam]

21 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

All the indicators say it wasn’t good!  
 

The cash the EU lost from the UK?! You gotta be kidding me! How about the 1.6 trillion the UK lost alone due to the banks that moved from London to Frankfurt?! 
 

Also, the UK is tiny in comparison to the EU! So what are you talking about? I think it’s time you need to take off your blinders and have a good look at the reality! 

I don't need to do anything, and reality is a long way off for the UK, a fact that you or I don't know at this time. But, one fact I do know is, you EU guys will carry on doing the same.."Tow the Line"...Enjoy..

[Stupooey]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Have you got evidence for this or is it just your opinion.

 

Well if you don't know whats the point. It was a simple stay or leave not lets stay in for 48% of the way.  Binary win or lose. Everyone had the opportunity to make an informed choice

and we get the constant whining, well not all the population voted.

 

Its a democracy to have a choice to vote or not. If you don't put your vote in you can't complain.

 

I totally disagree. It was a democratic decision. Too many Wokes who can't accept a straight answer in or out. I am convinced if it was remain that won you would be happy with the referendum.

 

Yes dictators say that when they don't want to change.  How ironic it is, fine to have a referendum to take us into the EU but we shouldn't have one to take us out. Do you see the hypocrisy.

 

Cameron? One example would be the refusal to adapt the electoral roll to the circumstances for the reason that it would be "too expensive", although a drop in the ocean compared to what Brexit has already cost and may (or may not) cost in the future. Why on earth were UK nationals who had been resident in the EU for 15 years denied the vote when their jobs might well depend on the result? Too expensive! To (probably) increase the Remain vote he could also have lowered the voting age to 16 (as was recommended by the House of Lords and done in the Scottish Referendum), and also hold it on a Sunday rather than a Thursday, when (almost) everyone would have had the opportunity to vote and it would not have been decided by the votes of the retired.

If the vote had gone the other way of course I would have had no reason to gripe, but no doubt others would have - remember, it was Farage who said that he would not accept 52-48 as being decisive.

Dictators? They love the notion of referenda. Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher who dismissed them as being "devices of dictators and demagogues"? For once I agree with her, they have no place in UK politics.

[herfiehandbag]

56 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which means that we elect people better informed than ourselves (if they aren't, then it's our fault for electing them!) to make the important decisions on our behalf. In 2015 the UK voting public elected MPs, over 75% of whom thought it was in the Country's best interest to remain in the EU (including 97% of Labour MPs, unfortunately not including Corbyn, which proved decisive), who one year later were expected to abandon their convictions and principles, and support the result of a poorly organised plebiscite. This is not at all what I understand by 'the democratic way in UK politics'.

Those people better informed than ourselves chose, in passing the legislation which enabled a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU, to hand the responsibility for making that important decision to the electorate themselves.

 

Now why did they make that choice? In part (a very substantial part) because they realised that a very significant part of the electorate simply did not trust their judgement, or the reasons behind that judgement, when it came to the UK's membership of the EU. Hence the majority ( slim but nonetheless clear) in favour of leaving.

 

I am no particular fan of referendums, but they are a recognised ( if rarely used) part of the UK democratic progress.

Edited January 20, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[hotandsticky]

2 hours ago, Stupooey said:

 

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which means that we elect people better informed than ourselves (if they aren't, then it's our fault for electing them!) to make the important decisions on our behalf. In 2015 the UK voting public elected MPs, over 75% of whom thought it was in the Country's best interest to remain in the EU (including 97% of Labour MPs, unfortunately not including Corbyn, which proved decisive), who one year later were expected to abandon their convictions and principles, and support the result of a poorly organised plebiscite. This is not at all what I understand by 'the democratic way in UK politics'.

 

 

Democracy rests with those who vote....not their 650 representatives.

[Laughing Gravy]

10 hours ago, Stupooey said:

 

Cameron? One example would be the refusal to adapt the electoral roll to the circumstances for the reason that it would be "too expensive", although a drop in the ocean compared to what Brexit has already cost and may (or may not) cost in the future. Why on earth were UK nationals who had been resident in the EU for 15 years denied the vote when their jobs might well depend on the result? Too expensive! To (probably) increase the Remain vote he could also have lowered the voting age to 16 (as was recommended by the House of Lords and done in the Scottish Referendum), and also hold it on a Sunday rather than a Thursday, when (almost) everyone would have had the opportunity to vote and it would not have been decided by the votes of the retired.

If the vote had gone the other way of course I would have had no reason to gripe, but no doubt others would have - remember, it was Farage who said that he would not accept 52-48 as being decisive.

Dictators? They love the notion of referenda. Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher who dismissed them as being "devices of dictators and demagogues"? For once I agree with her, they have no place in UK politics.

So no evidence then????

 

10 hours ago, Stupooey said:

Why on earth were UK nationals who had been resident in the EU for 15 years denied the vote when their jobs might well depend on the result?

The same as those who were outside of the EU for example in Thailand. What a weak argument.

 

So when are you going to act like an adult and accept the result after nearly 5 years have passed.

 

Whats your nationality?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Laughing Gravy

[pacovl46]

15 hours ago, transam said:

I don't need to do anything, and reality is a long way off for the UK, a fact that you or I don't know at this time. But, one fact I do know is, you EU guys will carry on doing the same.."Tow the Line"...Enjoy..

Just like you Brexiteers keep singing blindly the same song! ????????????

[transam]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Just like you Brexiteers keep singing blindly the same song! ????????????

Yes, correct, the song is........"Freedom"......

[GrandPapillon]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:11 AM, Stupooey said:

 

Probably agree with you on the 60/40 split, no arguments there. The 50%+1 method is hardly democratic (which requiressome sort or a consensus), except maybe when choosing the colour of the toilet paper in the Ladies at the golf club.

I love it how Brexiteers with Farage were asking for 2nd referendum if the 1st referendum had a win for Remain with less 52% of the vote ????

 

clearly not an honest approach to the whole debate of Brexit ????

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

I love it how Brexiteers with Farage were asking for 2nd referendum if the 1st referendum had a win for Remain with less 52% of the vote ????

 

clearly not an honest approach to the whole debate of Brexit ????

 

Back that up?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

 

Back that up?

 

[GrandPapillon]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Back that up?

did you miss that part? actually it was anything less than 54%

 

that was during the ref debate, Brexiteers were pre-empting and asking for ref2 if the votes was not a clear win above 52%

 

Maybot could have asked for ref2 and caught the hard brexiteers in their bluff, but she was being stupid and full hot of air, and therefore completely dysfunctional

Edited January 21, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[transam]

51 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

I love it how Brexiteers with Farage were asking for 2nd referendum if the 1st referendum had a win for Remain with less 52% of the vote ????

 

clearly not an honest approach to the whole debate of Brexit ????

Again, we read the words of a vote loser..look, isn't it time folk like you stop fluffing around with past voting history, the UK has left the EU, I repeat, has left the EU.....

 

DO YOU understand the UK has left the EU....?

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Again, we read the words of a vote loser..look, isn't it time folk like you stop fluffing around with past voting history, the UK has left the EU, I repeat, has left the EU.....

 

DO YOU understand the UK has left the EU....?

Did Farage lose, after all he was the one that said this.

[GrandPapillon]

21 hours ago, transam said:

Again, we read the words of a vote loser..look, isn't it time folk like you stop fluffing around with past voting history, the UK has left the EU, I repeat, has left the EU.....

 

DO YOU understand the UK has left the EU....?

You read me wrong, I was all for Brexit, I was actually for Hard Brexit ????

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by onthedarkside
trolling comment removed

[vogie]

21 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

You read me wrong, I was all for Brexit, I was actually for Hard Brexit ????

 

There were a lot on here wishing for an hard Brexit, the Euros because they were so sad to see us leave and not because they liked us, but just because we were a major contributor to their federal fund. And of course let's not forget our own home grown remainers who were praying for a no deal and hoping it would go wrong so they could have said "we told you so"

 

[transam]

21 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

You read me wrong, I was all for Brexit, I was actually for Hard Brexit ????

 

You were trolling...?

[GrandPapillon]

I think "we told you so" has just started, and will haunt UK politics for the next 20 years, until you rejoin the CM ????

Edited January 21, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, transam said:

You were trolling...?

no, I still think Brexiteers are idiots and are shooting themselves in the foot, that's the amusing part. They are doing it for the wrong reasons and were ill prepared.

 

The UK should have never joined in the first place,

[Sujo]

Brexiteers. Cutting ones face off to spite their nose.

 

UK is worse off out of the eu  but somehow that means its better.

 

So funny. No use me renewing my british passport.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Sujo

[transam]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

no, I still think Brexiteers are idiots and are shooting themselves in the foot, that's the amusing part. They are doing it for the wrong reasons and were ill prepared.

 

The UK should have never joined in the first place,

So you are a Brexiteer and calling yourself an idiot...?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

Brexiteers. Cutting ones face off to spite their nose.

 

UK is worse off out of the eu  but somehow that means its better.

 

So funny. No use me renewing my british passport.

It's British passport, and you do not know at this stage if the UK will be worse off.

 

Tell me, is the EU going to be worse off without the UK's huge cash input gone....?

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

It's British passport, and you do not know at this stage if the UK will be worse off.

 

Tell me, is the EU going to be worse off without the UK's huge cash input gone....?

I have 3 passports so its ok to let one go. 

 

What i do know is uk is worse off now. And i know its a british passport, thats what i said.