Dual pricing in hospitals now ?

[EricTh]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My local hospital charges me 50bht extra per visit, same as for Thais not registered at that hospital, or Burmese using that hospital.

Which local hospital is this?

[Tarteso]

24 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Find your post strange, in 1998 i was taken to Pattaya memorial hospital, by 2 farang friends.

I was taken into the emergency room, then i was in ICU 4, asked if i had insurance, yes was the answer.

Insurance company sent a fax from the UK, saying i was fully covered, i was never asked for 1 baht, everything taken care of by insurance.

After i was back in the UK i received paperwork from insurance company, saying please check sign and return, everything sorted.

In my case, three years ago, I had 2 emergency  sirgeries at Bangkok Hospital (Chanthaburi).  the amount to be paid exceeded Bht-600,000.-... All paid by the insurance company. ????

[EricTh]

27 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I guess those who are working in Thailand are paying income tax and social security.  Foreign retirees are by definition not poor, as there is a financial requirement to get a retirement extension.

 

Not all workers pay income tax if their salaries are lower than taxable income. What is this social security?

 

Retirees also pay sales tax and are taxed on their Fixed Deposits with the bank.

 

In most countries, those who are working should pay more than retirees.

 

For those foreigners who earn 50,000-100,000 baht per month, it doesn't make sense for them to pay lower.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by EricTh

[mrmicbkktxl]

This is from a government hospital wenn there 3weeks ago

[Natai Beach]

Don’t let it worry you. 

Thais have to pay way more for treatment in Australian hospitals than Aussies with a Medicare card. 
 

What goes around comes around. 

 

And instead of cute nurses in high heeled sneakers wiping you up in Australia you usually get an old horror beefy nurse named Shiela or sometimes even a male nurse named Bruce giving you a bath who seems to enjoy it a bit too much. 
 

I have found the food much better in Thai hospitals also. Three tasty cooked meals per day. In Australia you get given a stale sหเt sandwich. 
 

Get well soon.
 

 

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

Nothing new! It has been going on for 1-2 years already. Before that they did it occasionly anyway.

[Ireland32]

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Hi there

had to go to hospital for some minor treatment that involved one or two nights stay

booked a private room in the state hospital, price 1,600 but a night 

turned up yesterday morning, got paperwork sorted and got a room organised 

while waiting for transport to room, lady tells me the price is now 2,000 baht because “ I’m a farang”

not happy and told her so, but not going to argue over it

gets settled into room, has first drip done, blood test and x ray , then wait for doctor to visit

when he comes , many hours later, he asks if I. Ok paying for room, and can I afford it, so I asked which price am I paying, 1,600, or 2, 000

to which he replied no, farang price is 3,200 now, and I want you to stay 5 nights now

i pointed out the room is old and dated, in an old section of the hospital, there is no soap or towels to wash my hands after toilet, no water to drink, you insist i have friend/ relative to help, and then want them to sleep on a 4 foot wooden settee , and you now want to double the price because I’m a farang ?

The treatment needed is only a hook up to a antibiotic drip for 10 minutes, twice a day, but he refused to allow me treatment without staying in the room 

even the nurse admitted it was bad, but the big boss had told them to double the price for farangs

Anyone else have this happens to them 

can’t fault the nurses, but the system stinks to high heaven 

 

I just got done paying 28,000 b a day for hospital  room , and that’s nothing I stayed in ICU that’s 80,000 b a day , unfortunately I gapped my insurance and no insurance 1.2 million baht  in cash for Appendix and Septic Shock , Thais not pay that , Surely 

[Ireland32]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Back in 2003 I had an accident and had broken ribs. I was taken into Pattaya Memorial and they took my passport until they had been paid. Although I had insurance, they weren't interested, had to be cash. Never been to a private hospital since.

I went there also but they not have the technology to fix my ruptured appendix, so I was transferred to Japanese Thai hospital in Sri Ratcha , they said cheaper than BkK Hospital Pattaya, I don’t really think cheaper but they saved me 

[natway09]

I found the same in thinking getting some elective eye surgery would be possibly discounted at this time when not so busy but typical style it has increased in my eye hospital by 40% +

since December last year. I would have had it done by now had it even stayed the same

Unbelievable. I will now shop around.

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Most foreigners I know do not have insurance due to cost and age

whichwould not be such a problem if dual pricing did not exist

we already pay much more for the treatments, so why rip us off for the room prices, it has no bearing on the running costs 

but it was more the fact that the price increased by 100% from being given a room number, to actually staying in it , and even worse, such a poor room

anyone know why, in a hospital, which promotes cleanliness and hygiene, , they will not provide you with the facility to wash and dry your hands after using the toilet, and no hot water either ?

 

Not meaning to come across condescending, but you are in a foreign country, you can't expect them to subsidise the costs for you, i.e. you are not a tax payer.

 

The fact that you had already organised to be admitted to the hospital is good, however your admin skills a little lacking, i.e. you should have had them print off a total cost for the room, nights required and medicines, I think the hospital could have done this quite easily for you as a preliminary had you asked.

 

I understand you don't have private cover, I do, but only for emergency cover and when I do go into a hospital for treatment, I always ask what the cost is going to be and to have a print out so as to avoid any differences, I also understand that at most times one cannot have a print out unless staying overnight, that said, it isn't to hard to work it out, i.e. it is going to be far cheaper than back in the old country.

 

Put it down to a bad experience, your bad, don't blame the Thai's because if they were in your country they would have to pay farang prices too, i.e. the government wouldn't subsidise them unless they were a PR. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Hi there

had to go to hospital for some minor treatment that involved one or two nights stay

booked a private room in the state hospital, price 1,600 but a night 

turned up yesterday morning, got paperwork sorted and got a room organised 

while waiting for transport to room, lady tells me the price is now 2,000 baht because “ I’m a farang”

not happy and told her so, but not going to argue over it

gets settled into room, has first drip done, blood test and x ray , then wait for doctor to visit

when he comes , many hours later, he asks if I. Ok paying for room, and can I afford it, so I asked which price am I paying, 1,600, or 2, 000

to which he replied no, farang price is 3,200 now, and I want you to stay 5 nights now

i pointed out the room is old and dated, in an old section of the hospital, there is no soap or towels to wash my hands after toilet, no water to drink, you insist i have friend/ relative to help, and then want them to sleep on a 4 foot wooden settee , and you now want to double the price because I’m a farang ?

The treatment needed is only a hook up to a antibiotic drip for 10 minutes, twice a day, but he refused to allow me treatment without staying in the room 

even the nurse admitted it was bad, but the big boss had told them to double the price for farangs

Anyone else have this happens to them 

can’t fault the nurses, but the system stinks to high heaven 

 

Safe trusted Thailand.

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, sandyf said:

Back in 2003 I had an accident and had broken ribs. I was taken into Pattaya Memorial and they took my passport until they had been paid. Although I had insurance, they weren't interested, had to be cash. Never been to a private hospital since.

Avoid private hospitals if possible. They charge for every band aid and qtip. I usually use government hospitals as my wife is a civil servant so can claim back some costs. 

[digger70]

4 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Well I’m out now, and the bill for one nights stay, plus 2 I’ve drips came to around 5,950 baht

no option for reducing drips, nor for having them as an outpatient, no room, no drips as the doctor kept telling us

lesson learnt, don’t rust even doctors. Or nurses unless it’s in writing .

just been to the private hospital, same drips, but as an outpatient is fine, so cost each day is half that of the state hospital, but with better service too.

for anyone who thinks I’m wrong, please feel free to ask at Sakon Nakhon main hospital for farang prices on private rooms .

I also liked the cold mushroom soup and the frozen burger for tea last night, all I had to do was hobble down the corridor and join the queue for the microwave oven in the corridor , almost as good as the cold corn soup and dry cornflakes this morning 

Don't complain I had a cut on my hand  outpatient 4 stitches with 2 follow up dressings at Bangkok hospital and I took the stitches out Myself  Just under THB 20,000   ????

[Paul DS]

8 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Of course Thailand isn't the only country that charges foreigners a higher price for treatment in a taxpayer funded hospital.

 

In the UK, for instance, foreigners and UK Citizens living overseas, are charged 150% of the actual cost of treatment, however these charges are transparent and not, seemingly, made up on the hoof.

Actually sorry but you are wrong.  Anyone requesting treatment in a NHS facility within the UK are charged the private treatment price, its the same for UK residents or Non UK etc. The difference you get with private treatment is that there is generally little or no waiting list.

 

There is no 150% price.

[Oldie]

It is very simple. Doctors and hospitals are not much different than a plumber for instance. They want to make money. Not even the church is for free... If you use their services then imagine that they don't do all this to help you ... they want to survive too. There is a lot of fraud everywhere. 

[bkk6060]

As much as some seem to  hate this place I question anyone who claims a Doctor or hospital here says to their face "Falang price".  

I have gone to the hospital a few times and possibly charged more but never ever said to my face I pay more because I am Falang.

Whatever, maybe next time record it for evidence until then....

 

 

 

[Susco]

5 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

As much as some seem to  hate this place I question anyone who claims a Doctor or hospital here says to their face "Falang price".  

I have gone to the hospital a few times and possibly charged more but never ever said to my face I pay more because I am Falang.

Whatever, maybe next time record it for evidence until then....

 

 

 

Seems you missed this post on the previous page.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1205466-dual-pricing-in-hospitals-now/?do=findComment&comment=16240528

 

You think it could be more clear than that?

 

[theoldgit]

28 minutes ago, Paul DS said:

Actually sorry but you are wrong.  Anyone requesting treatment in a NHS facility within the UK are charged the private treatment price, its the same for UK residents or Non UK etc. The difference you get with private treatment is that there is generally little or no waiting list.

 

There is no 150% price.

No I’m not wrong, I’m not on about private treatment, I’m on about treatment on the NHS in a NHS facility, legal residents in the UK can obtain treatment free of charge, whereas visitors from overseas, including taxpaying British expats are charged 150% of the actual cost of treatment.

[Fairynuff]

10 hours ago, Joinaman said:

Hi there

had to go to hospital for some minor treatment that involved one or two nights stay

booked a private room in the state hospital, price 1,600 but a night 

turned up yesterday morning, got paperwork sorted and got a room organised 

while waiting for transport to room, lady tells me the price is now 2,000 baht because “ I’m a farang”

not happy and told her so, but not going to argue over it

gets settled into room, has first drip done, blood test and x ray , then wait for doctor to visit

when he comes , many hours later, he asks if I. Ok paying for room, and can I afford it, so I asked which price am I paying, 1,600, or 2, 000

to which he replied no, farang price is 3,200 now, and I want you to stay 5 nights now

i pointed out the room is old and dated, in an old section of the hospital, there is no soap or towels to wash my hands after toilet, no water to drink, you insist i have friend/ relative to help, and then want them to sleep on a 4 foot wooden settee , and you now want to double the price because I’m a farang ?

The treatment needed is only a hook up to a antibiotic drip for 10 minutes, twice a day, but he refused to allow me treatment without staying in the room 

even the nurse admitted it was bad, but the big boss had told them to double the price for farangs

Anyone else have this happens to them 

can’t fault the nurses, but the system stinks to high heaven 

 

It seems you weren’t in an emergency situation, so why didn’t you just find somewhere else instead of a place that sounds more like a clip joint than a hospital.

[scubascuba3]

Hospitals will take advantage of the sick and vulnerable, sad but true

[connda]

9 hours ago, theoldgit said:

Of course Thailand isn't the only country that charges foreigners a higher price for treatment in a taxpayer funded hospital.

 

In the UK, for instance, foreigners and UK Citizens living overseas, are charged 150% of the actual cost of treatment, however these charges are transparent and not, seemingly, made up on the hoof.

I would bet you that if I was married to a UK citizen and was living in the UK, I'd be covered by the NHS. 
Here? Married to a Thai citizen and living in Thailand.  Oh, hell, that right.  I'm just a "temporary visitor" after 13 years of marriage and will always be nothing but a "temporary visitor".
 
If I ever have a health problem that becomes so expensive that the now three tiered pricing scheme (of which I, as a married farang, will pay the maximum) pulls the capital reserves I have set aside for my wife below a threshold I've set that will allow my wife to live comfortably for the rest of her life - then I'll simply "check out".  With sound mind, cold, and calculated.
If they want to charge me three times what a Myanmar worker would pay, or two times what a foreigner with a work permit would pay - even after supporting a Thai family for well over a decade (don't tell me I don't contribute to the Thai tax base - that's BS).  Screw it.  I'll just end it so my wife and family have the funds to continue to live on. 
It's a sad state of affairs that there isn't a more equitable allocation of healthcare globally, but it is what it is - and life ain't fair.  Get over it.  I have.
Before 2019 I was relying on having affordable care through the Thai government hospital system. Then they changed the rules. Pretty much tripling the prices for a guy like me married to a Thai woman.  So, not anymore. I've planned for the contingency.  Got a living will"  No ICU.  DNR.  If my funds drop below my threshold - send me home - I'll take care of the rest.  I've lived a full enough live.  I need to make sure my wife can continue to live a comfortable life until she dies.  It's my responsibility.  The Thai government can't take care of their elderly.  I'm not going to allow my wife to fall into poverty due to me eventually getting sick prior to dying. I won't let it happen. 
I can see it now.  Cause of death: economic responsibility for a Thai wife. Yeah, that would sum it up. 

[Stevemercer]

51 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

No I’m not wrong, I’m not on about private treatment, I’m on about treatment on the NHS in a NHS facility, legal residents in the UK can obtain treatment free of charge, whereas visitors from overseas, including taxpaying British expats are charged 150% of the actual cost of treatment.

 

In Australia, hospitals will charge the same schedule of fees whether you are a public patient (paid by the government), private patient (paid by insurance company or in cash by the patient) or foreigner on a temporary visa (paid by insurance company or in cash by the patient).

 

Hospitals don't have a different schedule of fees for foreigners, or depending upon who pays. The government does not have an announced policy of charging more fees for foreigners or other groups. If they did, I think those forced to pay more would complain and the policy would be reversed because it is patently unfair and discriminatory.

 

I would be surprised if the UK or USA had different schedules of hospital fees based on immigration categories or ethnicity. 

 

In Thailand, official government policy is to charge foreigners up to 150% of the approved fee schedule. I don't know if this also applies to foreigners who are also residents or citizens (e.g. based on immigration status or ethnicity).

 

I'm covered by my wife's pubic sector insurance (spouse of ex=public servant) so I assume the government has to pay the 150% fees when I go to a public hospital.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Stevemercer

[sanuk711]

1 hour ago, Paul DS said:

Actually sorry but you are wrong.  Anyone requesting treatment in a NHS facility within the UK are charged the private treatment price, its the same for UK residents or Non UK etc. The difference you get with private treatment is that there is generally little or no waiting list.

 

There is no 150% price.

Paul he is correct --it is all dual pricing now in the UK. As from end of last year---not only for foreigners. But for UK citizens who are no longer residents of the UK---That's worse then Thailand. Of Course A & E , are taken in without question as they are here. Australians Kiwi's  etc  are exempt under the reciprocal agreement.

 

Within England, free NHS hospital treatment is provided on the basis of someone being ‘ordinarily resident’. Being ordinarily resident is not dependent upon nationality, payment of UK taxes, National Insurance contributions, being registered with a GP, having an NHS number or owning property in the UK. Those who are not ordinarily resident in the UK, including former UK residents, are overseas visitors and may be charged for NHS services.

 

They will be charged at 150% of the NHS national tariff, unless an exemption applies to them or the service they are accessing, or they are covered by a reciprocal healthcare agreement between the UK and their country

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care/how-the-nhs-charges-overseas-visitors-for-nhs-hospital-care

 

 

 

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I would bet you that if I was married to a UK citizen and was living in the UK, I'd be covered by the NHS. 

If you’re legally resident in the UK either as a British Citizen or someone with Indefinite Leave to Remain, in prison or Immigration Detention, or come from a country with reciprocal health care arrangements, then yes you’d be entitled to free ongoing treatment from the NHS.

 

Being married to a UK Citizen doesn’t automatically entitle to free NHS Cover though if your were in the UK with Leave to Remain then you would be covered as you would have paid a NHS Surcharge.

 

Life saving treatment is free as are a few other conditions.

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Stevemercer said:

I would be surprised if the UK or USA had different schedules of hospital fees based on immigration categories or ethnicity. 

If you care to read the NHS Charging Regulations, all 124 pages of them, you will find that those not legally resident in the UK, are charged 150% of the actual cost of ongoing NHS Treatment.

 

it doesn’t apply to those receiving emergency life saving treatment, certain other specific conditions, those from countries with reciprocal agreements or those in prison or immigration detention.

 

Those in the UK on a Settlement Visa are entitled as they would have paid a NHS Surcharge.

[Alotoftravel]

Do we also have dual pricing for insurance premium since as foreigners we are changed higher more than Thai patients / Thai insurerd?

[Stevemercer]

59 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

If you care to read the NHS Charging Regulations, all 124 pages of them, you will find that those not legally resident in the UK, are charged 150% of the actual cost of ongoing NHS Treatment.

 

it doesn’t apply to those receiving emergency life saving treatment, certain other specific conditions, those from countries with reciprocal agreements or those in prison or immigration detention.

 

Those in the UK on a Settlement Visa are entitled as they would have paid a NHS Surcharge.

 

Thank you for the correction (and in being polite about it)! I must admit I am surprised that illegal aliens in the UK must pay 150%. Maybe Thailand got the idea from the UK.

 

I assume it is not a revenue raising stream in the UK (as most illegals couldn't afford to pay anything and would be deported regardless) so there must be some political, or deterrent, rationale behind the indexation. 

 

I assume the rationale behind Thailand's 150% is revenue  rather than deterrent.

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

6000 baht for one night stay is ridiculous.

 

Even though there is double pricing in all hospitals but some hospitals charge a much lower fee.

 

Can you tell us which hospital is this? so we can avoid in the future.

 

 

 

Sakon Nakhon state hospital, next to the lake

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Choose another hospital.

Thanks for that advice. Bit late after they have increase your charges by 100% while your in your room receiving treatment 

but have changed hospitals, now gone private, saving over 3,300 a day 

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, wprime said:

 

This is pretty normal around the world. I go to a hospital in Australia and it's free, my partner does and she pays $300 minimum. Any treatment and that goes into 4-5 figures very quickly.

 

Governments subsidise treatment for local patients. Foreign patients are more likely to skip town to avoid paying the bill so they need to factor this in.

 And how exactly can we ex pats skip without paying ?

they have our passport numbers, our addresses, and most of the time, they almost frogmarch you to the cashiers desk 

how many ex pats actually skip without paying ? 
tourists maybe .