Income method

[Taccos]

I want to change from the 800k deposit to the 65k income method. My question is whether the incoming payments need to come directly from the source (e.g. pension fund pays directly to my Thai account) or whether I can mirror those payments?

Option 1 (preferred): I receive 65k from my pension fund to my home country bank account and I mirror the payment by transferring 65k from my other account (TransferWise) to my Thai account. This would allow me to save on transaction/conversion fees.

Option 2:  pension fund pays the 65k directly to my European TransferWise account and I then transfer the funds on to my Thai account.

Would any of these options be accepted by IO? 

[mtls2005]

Option #1 (mirroring) works for most, incl. me.

Some have it directly transferred and deposited to a Bank in Thailand.

Option #2 would work as well. 

Some offices might ask for "the source" of the funds, I've never been asked for this (CW), but I do carry supporting documentation showing the provenance of, and the path taken, of the funds.

Perhaps best to mention your office to get a feel for practices there?

Funds do not have to come from a pension. A pension can be but one source, in part or in total. 

[ubonjoe]

Immigration don't care how it is transferred into the country.

The most important thing needed is proof it was transferred from abroad. 

[DrJack54]

36 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Option #1 (mirroring) works for most, incl. me.

Some have it directly transferred and deposited to a Bank in Thailand.

Option #2 would work as well. 

Some offices might ask for "the source" of the funds, I've never been asked for this (CW), but I do carry supporting documentation showing the provenance of, and the path taken, of the funds.

Perhaps best to mention your office to get a feel for practices there?

Funds do not have to come from a pension. A pension can be but one source, in part or in total. 

Very precise clear post.

Slightly off topic question. I have often read (even current threads)  of various problems with income method regarding timing of the transfers in case of pensions. Why don't folk have those funds placed into their home country bank account and do the transfer themselves eg using Wise. Is it a cost thing?

I use money in bank method just curious.

Edited March 17, 2021 by DrJack54

[xylophone]

39 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Perhaps best to mention your office to get a feel for practices there?

That's a good suggestion I do believe, and there is a reason I say this......... 

Every month my monies were transferred from my pension in the UK and from one in NZ to my Thai account here, and I occasionally topped it up with money directly from my New Zealand bank account, thereby effecting the 65K required.

One thing I didn't take into consideration was exchange rates, so I had to work all of these out for the immigration officer and he also got his offsider to do exactly the same after wading through every page of printouts from my bank account.

After checking page upon page of my application and stapling it together, he looked up at me with an angry frown on his face and more or less barked, "next time money in bank".

Seems he was unhappy with having to spend time checking my paperwork, so not wanting any problems with immigration, I deposited the 800 K in my bank, and that's where it stays.

I could have challenged that because the 65 K per month was all in order, but if I want to stay here, I have to be the subservient farang.

So I refer back to the comment of mtls2005 with regards to checking it with the office.

[KeeTua]

When switching between methods like that or vice versa, 65k/month to 800k, I haven't seen any clear info on what is acceptable. In your case to be on the safe side you would need to follow the rules for the 800k method, no balance below 400k for the year etc, and at the same time have 12 months of 65k international transfers next time you go to extend permission to stay.

If you show up to immigration having fulfilled the requirements for both methods will immigration be friendly to your request, which is ultimately going to cause them more work, or will they 'force' you to stay on the 800k method?

I'd be curious if anyone has solid info on doing this.

[mtls2005]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

I could have challenged that because the 65 K per month was all in order, but if I want to stay here, I have to be the subservient farang.

 

Twelve (12) Credit Advice Receipts + an official bank cover/summary letter documents EVERYTHING, incl. foreing fund amount, and gross/net deposit in THB.

[xylophone]

10 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Twelve (12) Credit Advice Receipts + an official bank cover/summary letter documents EVERYTHING, incl. foreing fund amount, and gross/net deposit in THB.

Yes I had all of that..............

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

If you show up to immigration having fulfilled the requirements for both methods will immigration be friendly to your request, which is ultimately going to cause them more work, or will they 'force' you to stay on the 800k method?

Only if had the 800k baht in the bank for 2 months when you apply. Just keep the 400k baht minimum up to the day you apply.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Slightly off topic question. I have often read (even current threads)  of various problems with income method regarding timing of the transfers in case of pensions. Why don't folk have those funds placed into their home country bank account and do the transfer themselves eg using Wise. Is it a cost thing?

As far as the UK is concerned it's mainly a home country bank attitude issue. UK banks generally frown on UK non-residents holding accounts with them, and have been known to arbitrarily close accounts which, in particular, have been allowed to fall into disuse principally as a result of pension payments being directly credited to Thai bank accounts. Thankfully I've been able to keep my UK account going by getting my 3 UK monthly income payments (State Pension, occupational pension plus UK property rental) paid into it, with subsequent Wise transfers making a total of 4 transactions per month, which are occasionally supplemented by UK credit card payments & tax payments to HMRC. As the old maxim goes, "use it or lose it"!

Edited March 17, 2021 by OJAS

[KannikaP]

43 minutes ago, xylophone said:

One thing I didn't take into consideration was exchange rates, so I had to work all of these out for the immigration officer and he also got his offsider to do exactly the same after wading through every page of printouts from my bank account.

Does your bank account, book or statement, not show how much IN BAHT was deposited in the account, regardless of exchange rate. Mine does.

[xylophone]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Does your bank account, book or statement, not show how much IN BAHT was deposited in the account, regardless of exchange rate. Mine does.

Yes it does, and I'm trying to remember why I used the exchange rates, however I think it was because every so often I had to top the amount up because I was getting a fixed amount in UK pounds and NZ dollars and when the exchange rate differed, sometimes it fell short, so a top up was necessary and I think my exchange rate calculations were to try and show him why I was doing it.

It wasn't the exchange rate calculations that seemed to p!ss him off, just the fact that he had a lot of checking to do, so perhaps caught him on a bad day?

The other thing he wanted, as he had done on several occasions previously, was a copy of every page of my bank book, irrespective of the letter from the bank, so it's not hard to see why when the dreaded yearly date came round again, I never looked forward to it, and still don't for that matter – – it's a bit like the Forrest Gump saying, only altered slightly to read, "Phuket immigration is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get".

[UKresonant]

When I was practicing for a potential application by income transfer, I just used SWIFT transfer from the Halifax UK, to a £FCD account in Thailand.  The only drawback at that time it had to be initiated manually online, no Standing Order facility. I would transfer say on the 2nd of March 2019, the value of one of my pensions from March 2018 say. (so if any question, could show that historical amount as legitimate source).

The funds would hit the bank in Thailand about <3-4 days latter. Bank could run twelve month transactions from their in Branch Terminal. 

The thing is that that pension does now cover the 40k THB /month for a marriage extension, if I required the higher amount for the retirement extension, the monthly date cycle to catch my multiple income sources would be something like 25th of the month to the 24th of the next month, so not really practical to direct credit anyway even if I wanted to! 

The SWIFTing was £9.50 at the UK end, then 0.25% deposit fee in Thailand (min 250THB) , Then you got TT rate to withdraw THB. 

Succeeded with smooth transfers for 7-8 months, potentially complied..(then I was back in the UK so transfers on hold, probably until the wee boy completes High School)

Also does not transfer in year income in the same Thai Tax year Just in case.

 

[LawrenceN]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, ubonjoe said:

Immigration don't care how it is transferred into the country.

The most important thing needed is proof it was transferred from abroad. 

Except in Chiang Mai, apparently. Last year, because of a change Bangkok Bank made in their requirements for funds transfer protocol, one of my sources was unable to use the correct transfer format. It resulted in my monthly transfers from that source showing something other than FTT. CM Immigration would accept nothing other than FTT as the code for those transactions in my passbook. No amount of supporting documentation was acceptable, though I had it with me that day. One of my sources of income was enough to meet the 40,000 baht requirement for marriage visa, so I just switched to that. Immigration seem to prefer retirement visas because less paperwork and bureaucracy is involved, but their refusal to look at my sources of income makes both sides jump through more hoops. 

[khunPer]

On 3/17/2021 at 6:37 AM, xylophone said:

That's a good suggestion I do believe, and there is a reason I say this......... 

Every month my monies were transferred from my pension in the UK and from one in NZ to my Thai account here, and I occasionally topped it up with money directly from my New Zealand bank account, thereby effecting the 65K required.

One thing I didn't take into consideration was exchange rates, so I had to work all of these out for the immigration officer and he also got his offsider to do exactly the same after wading through every page of printouts from my bank account.

After checking page upon page of my application and stapling it together, he looked up at me with an angry frown on his face and more or less barked, "next time money in bank".

Seems he was unhappy with having to spend time checking my paperwork, so not wanting any problems with immigration, I deposited the 800 K in my bank, and that's where it stays.

I could have challenged that because the 65 K per month was all in order, but if I want to stay here, I have to be the subservient farang.

So I refer back to the comment of mtls2005 with regards to checking it with the office.

Agree that the most convenient method is 800k in a fixed 12-month deposit, if one can afford it.

And yes, do check locally, there might be important small differences from one IO to another IO. It's been posted that just one monthly transfer less than 65k baht is enough to give one serious headache, i.e. not being accepted for extension of stay.

 

[gmmarvin]

How do you know what system you are under?  I have over 800,000 in the bank, and 65,000 baht coming in every month.  Nothing on my extension page of my passport says anything.

[chilly07]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:37 PM, xylophone said:

That's a good suggestion I do believe, and there is a reason I say this......... 

Every month my monies were transferred from my pension in the UK and from one in NZ to my Thai account here, and I occasionally topped it up with money directly from my New Zealand bank account, thereby effecting the 65K required.

One thing I didn't take into consideration was exchange rates, so I had to work all of these out for the immigration officer and he also got his offsider to do exactly the same after wading through every page of printouts from my bank account.

After checking page upon page of my application and stapling it together, he looked up at me with an angry frown on his face and more or less barked, "next time money in bank".

Seems he was unhappy with having to spend time checking my paperwork, so not wanting any problems with immigration, I deposited the 800 K in my bank, and that's where it stays.

I could have challenged that because the 65 K per month was all in order, but if I want to stay here, I have to be the subservient farang.

So I refer back to the comment of mtls2005 with regards to checking it with the office.

Just need the funds converted to baht before depositing them in Thai bank then no problem

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, gmmarvin said:

How do you know what system you are under? 

Which of the two did you prove when you applied for the extension.

Proof of 800k baht in a Thai bank for 2 months or 12 months of bank statements showing 65k baht transferred every month.

[chilly07]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:43 PM, mtls2005 said:

 

Twelve (12) Credit Advice Receipts + an official bank cover/summary letter documents EVERYTHING, incl. foreing fund amount, and gross/net deposit in THB.

13 if it's a marriage extension covering the under consideration period

[chilly07]

24 minutes ago, LawrenceN said:

Except in Chiang Mai, apparently. Last year, because of a change Bangkok Bank made in their requirements for funds transfer protocol, one of my sources was unable to use the correct transfer format. It resulted in my monthly transfers from that source showing something other than FTT. CM Immigration would accept nothing other than FTT as the code for those transactions in my passbook. No amount of supporting documentation was acceptable, though I had it with me that day. One of my sources of income was enough to meet the 40,000 baht requirement for marriage visa, so I just switched to that. Immigration seem to prefer retirement visas because less paperwork and bureaucracy is involved, but their refusal to look at my sources of income makes both sides jump through more hoops. 

Just do everything through Transferwise (now Wise) and all transfers will be FTT at Bangkok Bank 

[lopburi3]

28 minutes ago, gmmarvin said:

How do you know what system you are under?  I have over 800,000 in the bank, and 65,000 baht coming in every month.  Nothing on my extension page of my passport says anything.

Had same happen - but officer did ask which system I wanted to use and replied income - but have no proof of that.  Expect if using deposit details of the 800/400k requirements would have been commented on.  Plan to keep it below 800k in that account this year.

[OJAS]

On 3/17/2021 at 12:37 PM, xylophone said:

That's a good suggestion I do believe, and there is a reason I say this......... 

Every month my monies were transferred from my pension in the UK and from one in NZ to my Thai account here, and I occasionally topped it up with money directly from my New Zealand bank account, thereby effecting the 65K required.

One thing I didn't take into consideration was exchange rates, so I had to work all of these out for the immigration officer and he also got his offsider to do exactly the same after wading through every page of printouts from my bank account.

After checking page upon page of my application and stapling it together, he looked up at me with an angry frown on his face and more or less barked, "next time money in bank".

Seems he was unhappy with having to spend time checking my paperwork, so not wanting any problems with immigration, I deposited the 800 K in my bank, and that's where it stays.

I could have challenged that because the 65 K per month was all in order, but if I want to stay here, I have to be the subservient farang.

So I refer back to the comment of mtls2005 with regards to checking it with the office.

I wonder whether what provoked the officer's negative reaction was that you were making a couple of transfers each month and even 3 in some months. I personally make only one 65k+ transfer each month into my Thai account which I then highlight in bank statements and passbook copies for the sake of clarity. Assuming that your primary "farang" bank account is your NZ one you might, should you ever be minded to revert back to the 65k monthly method, wish to consider getting your UK pension paid into your NZ account to enable you to follow suit (maybe by using . True doing things this way would mean a double-whammy in the case of your UK pension (GBP to NZD followed by NZD to THB), which might, of course, be a material consideration, particularly if the amount of your UK pension is sizeable in relation to your NZ pension and other income going into your NZ account.

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, OJAS said:

I wonder whether what provoked the officer's negative reaction was that you were making a couple of transfers each month and even 3 in some months. I personally make only one 65k+ transfer each month into my Thai account which I then highlight in bank statements and passbook copies for the sake of clarity. Assuming that your primary "farang" bank account is your NZ one you might, should you ever be minded to revert back to the 65k monthly method, wish to consider getting your UK pension paid into your NZ account to enable you to follow suit (maybe by using . True doing things this way would mean a double-whammy in the case of your UK pension (GBP to NZD followed by NZD to THB), which might, of course, be a material consideration, particularly if the amount of your UK pension is sizeable in relation to your NZ pension and other income going into your NZ account.

You make a couple of good points, and I had thought of something along these lines with getting my UK pension paid into my NZ bank, and then getting that transferred to my Thai bank.......the problem was that due to the strict New Zealand money-laundering laws, my bank will not allow automatic payments to my Thai bank account, so I would have to do it manually every month.

My problem with that is that I could forget to do it (I am getting on a bit now) or of course I could be ill or in hospital when the time comes to get the transfer done and it doesn't get done – – and we know what that means with a very inflexible I/O!

Now that I've made the switch to having the 800 K in the bank, I've learned to live with it and if necessary I can drawdown 400 K of that for a few months of the year, and it also gives me peace of mind, inasmuch as I don't start worrying when the yearly visit to the I/O comes round.

Thank you for your suggestion all the same.

[Carrbhoy]

On 3/17/2021 at 5:58 AM, ubonjoe said:

Only if had the 800k baht in the bank for 2 months when you apply. Just keep the 400k baht minimum up to the day you apply.

This is the first I've picked up on the 400k baht minimum requirement. Can you please clarify what Visa this applies to & when. Any documents / links I can read up on this would be appreciated.

One Option I'm seriously looking at is the Non Imm 0 using 800k parked funds and then moving to 65k Monthly transfers after the 1st Year Renewal. I was hoping at that point to be able to release the 800k to avoid the Investment return losses over the longer term.

Will I only be able to release 400k THB as I always need to keep a 400k THB minimum balance in my Thai bank account & the 65k Monthly transfers?

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Carrbhoy said:

This is the first I've picked up on the 400k baht minimum requirement. Can you please clarify what Visa this applies to & when. Any documents / links I can read up on this would be appreciated.

It is required when applying for a extension of stay based upon retirement.

Since march of 2019 you must have the 800k baht in the bank for 2 months before the day apply, then for 3 months after and for the remainder of the year have a minimum balance of 400k baht.

Download. Police Order 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22

[Carrbhoy]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is required when applying for a extension of stay based upon retirement.

Since march of 2019 you must have the 800k baht in the bank for 2 months before the day apply, then for 3 months after and for the remainder of the year have a minimum balance of 400k baht.

Download. Police Order 35/2562 Changing 327/2557 Clause 2.22

Thanks for the response and additional info. Much appreciated.

Think I'll be parking the 800k in a Bangkok Bank account for the first couple of years and if I decide to stay longer term, look to move to 65k Monthly transfers & 400k. Keep it as simple as possible first couple of years.

[gmmarvin]

3 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Had same happen - but officer did ask which system I wanted to use and replied income - but have no proof of that.  Expect if using deposit details of the 800/400k requirements would have been commented on.  Plan to keep it below 800k in that account this year.

Same for me but no proof

[Jackson B]

On a related issue, is it acceptable to have, say, 200k deposited every 3 months? This would be instead of 65k per month.

[ubonjoe]

5 hours ago, Jackson B said:

On a related issue, is it acceptable to have, say, 200k deposited every 3 months? This would be instead of 65k per month.

No

The rules state 12 months of transfers in the amount of 65k baht or more.