Facing 'crisis of century', EU threatens ban on COVID vaccine exports to UK

[Pilotman]

46 minutes ago, david555 said:

So you go get same from our side ....  what else you would expect we go do...,let you <deleted> on our heads ????

Is the  same as " we go take control of our borders and laws "....sound familiar to you maybe ... ???? ?

Start making extra electricity plants  .... as you might need then very hard , remember Barnier words months ago to cut U.K. of from common market electricity way ...

Remember last Christmas when Macron let you feel  wat sitting on an Island means outside E.U. .....could become  longer this time ????

no idea what you are talking about mate.  

[vinny41]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Thanks for that.

Now what worries me is the statement "Despite the fact that all three British sites, as well as the Dutch and German subcontractors, are clearly included in the supply chain, it's not certain they all have been used for the EU, according to the company's submission to European regulators and officials familiar with AstraZeneca's supply chain".

Now this appears to be what the EU has an issue with. Namely vaccines are moving from the EU to the UK but not in the other direction.

The contract AstraZeneca has with the UK is that AstraZeneca is to supply UK 100 million doses ( enough for each person in the UK excluding anyone under the age of 18 to have 2 doses) and once that 100 million doses have been supplied. AstraZeneca is free to export the vaccine to anyone else

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The contract AstraZeneca has with the UK is that AstraZeneca is to supply UK 100 million doses ( enough for each person in the UK excluding anyone under the age of 18 to have 2 doses) and once that 100 million doses have been supplied. AstraZeneca is free to export the vaccine to anyone else

So the UK has a contract for vaccine nationalism from a British company and people are horrified at the thought the EU has a problem with this and has started to take steps to prevent this? 

[candide]

 

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Problem is that the EU Pfizer vaccine  requires UK ingredients

 

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

It is impossible right now, only 2 places on earth produce what they need and one is in the US, the other in the UK.

 

As someone else pointed out, the US may have already restricted exports so they may be relying entirely on the UK here.

 

Corda is not the only supplier. Merck is supplying the same ingredient to BioNtech and now also another German firm. 

There are other manufacturers in Europe which are suppliers of Moderna.

Preventing Corda from exporting would likely slow down Pfizer/BioNtech production on short term, though.

On top of it, are you sure AZ doesn't rely on any ingredient supplied by the EU?

[ukrules]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

On top of it, are you sure AZ doesn't rely on any ingredient supplied by the EU?

No, however I am very sure that enough of it (whatever it may be) will already be inside the UK before we open our mouths or act in any way at all.

Edited March 18, 2021 by ukrules

[vinny41]

12 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So the UK has a contract for vaccine nationalism from a British company and people are horrified at the thought the EU has a problem with this and has started to take steps to prevent this? 

The EU has a similar contract with Pfizer/BioNtech, so far Pfizer/BioNtech have meet all the orders that the EU has submitted and therefore they are only exporting vaccines that the EU hasn't place an order for.

The reason why the EU hasn't order more Pfizer/BioNtech vaccines is that it is more expensive than the AstraZeneca  vaccine which was done with a partnership with Oxford University which insisted that the vaccine should be developed and distributed on a non-profit basis

 

[vinny41]

15 minutes ago, candide said:

 

 

Corda is not the only supplier. Merck is supplying the same ingredient to BioNtech and now also another German firm. 

There are other manufacturers in Europe which are suppliers of Moderna.

Preventing Corda from exporting would likely slow down Pfizer/BioNtech production on short term, though.

On top of it, are you sure AZ doesn't rely on any ingredient supplied by the EU?

It does appear that the US is dependent on vaccine components from the EU

The protectionist move also risks angering Joe Biden, the president of the US, which imports vaccines and vaccine components from the EU. Brussels wants the US to release 30 million AstraZeneca doses, which are not being used because the US regulator has not approved the Oxford jab, for export to the EU. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/17/eu-may-trigger-little-used-emergency-article-122-clause-force/

[stuandjulie]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

The issue the EU has in dealing with the UK (signing treaties making and keeping commitments) is that we are being "nice and legal", thinking the UK will do the same and reciprocate "we send vaccines to you, you send vaccines to us..".

 

this is the wrong approach

 

we are bringing a knife to a gunfight ????

 

.

Well except that the EU were ready to break the N Ireland agreement at the drop of a hat until the Irish complained of course. As to the vaccines, Astra Zeneca is a UK SWEDISH company NOT owned by the UK. The vaccine is made all over the world including India which now has a supply problem which will affect the UK. Eu supplies were to mainly come from an Eu plant which has had re-commissioning issues and so the Eu wants the vaccine to come from elsewhere to make up for their problem in not ordering earlier. In the meantime they say they don't want it and Italy banned a shipment from going to Australia which was all legal.

I wanted to stay in EU so am not into Brexit but in this case it is an EU ++++show and they are desperately scratching around for people to blame. They are so messed up even the French Pres and PM can't agree with each other and the rest can't agree with your own Medical regulators !! 

Edited March 18, 2021 by stuandjulie

[onebir]

13 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Treacherous Albion comes to mind.

(More often rendered "Perfidious Albion" mon cher.)

[CG1 Blue]

13 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Treacherous Albion comes to mind.
Everyone should know that the English engagements are worth only the price of the paper and that this habit was accentuated with Johnson.
I regret that the EU did not prefer to contract with the Russians and China.
I hope that the lesson has been learned to avoid such a waste during the next calls for tenders, for these vaccines, for other products and services as well.

You do realise that the EU contract is with a company called Astra Zeneca, not with the UK or UK government? ????‍♂️

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The EU has a similar contract with Pfizer/BioNtech, so far Pfizer/BioNtech have meet all the orders that the EU has submitted and therefore they are only exporting vaccines that the EU hasn't place an order for.

The reason why the EU hasn't order more Pfizer/BioNtech vaccines is that it is more expensive than the AstraZeneca  vaccine which was done with a partnership with Oxford University which insisted that the vaccine should be developed and distributed on a non-profit basis

 

I have no idea about the Pfizer vaccine. It does not appear much in the news other than the fact the radical technology used may very well hold promise in the future for curing other viruses. 

However getting back to what we were discussing. It would appear that the EU signed a contract which included UK manufacturing sites in the supply chain but so far no vaccine is seen to have made its way from the UK to the EU.

The EU obviously has an issue with this.

Do you not find it odd that today Matt Hancock was suddenly telling UK vaccination facilities that no further vaccine will be available for a month? Astra Zeneca released a statement saying there was no issues regarding manufacture.

So where do you think that vaccine currently being processed is heading?

[candide]

17 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

Eu supplies were to mainly come from an Eu plant which has had re-commissioning issues and so the Eu wants the vaccine to come from elsewhere to make up for their problem in not ordering earlier. In the meantime they say they don't want it and Italy banned a shipment from going to Australia which was all legal.

The contract doesn't specify that supply should come from EU-27 plants. Now Let's have a look at AZ's behaviour. One the one hand, it says it cannot supply the expected quantities because of problems in EU plants, but on the other hand it exports to Australia (which ordered later than the EU and also approved the vaccine later than the EU) from EU plants which don't have any production issues.

Edited March 18, 2021 by candide

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I have no idea about the Pfizer vaccine. It does not appear much in the news other than the fact the radical technology used may very well hold promise in the future for curing other viruses. 

However getting back to what we were discussing. It would appear that the EU signed a contract which included UK manufacturing sites in the supply chain but so far no vaccine is seen to have made its way from the UK to the EU.

The EU obviously has an issue with this.

Do you not find it odd that today Matt Hancock was suddenly telling UK vaccination facilities that no further vaccine will be available for a month? Astra Zeneca released a statement saying there was no issues regarding manufacture.

So where do you think that vaccine currently being processed is heading?

There are delays for 5 million doses from India

Five million UK-bound AstraZeneca vaccine doses being held up 'by Indian government'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/18/10m-uk-bound-indian-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses-held-indian-government/

As to the EU contract with Astra Zeneca maybe they weren't aware or didn't ask or assumed that they would get preferential treatment regarding  vaccines from the UK sites and that Astra Zeneca would simply redirect vaccines that were meant for the UK market to the EU

[david555]

18 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

You do realise that the EU contract is with a company called Astra Zeneca, not with the UK or UK government? ????‍♂️

So dont cry then about the blocked vaccin .......as it is the A.Z.one not the U.K. ones .....(using your own statement ....) ????

Edited March 18, 2021 by david555

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vinny41 said:

There are delays for 5 million doses from India

Five million UK-bound AstraZeneca vaccine doses being held up 'by Indian government'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/18/10m-uk-bound-indian-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses-held-indian-government/

As to the EU contract with Astra Zeneca maybe they weren't aware or didn't ask or assumed that they would get preferential treatment regarding  vaccines from the UK sites and that Astra Zeneca would simply redirect vaccines that were meant for the UK market to the EU

Or more likely they were unaware of a vaccine nationalism clause built into the UK's contract.

As for the vaccines currently in India. That could be down to any number of reasons but I suspect the two most likely are either vaccine nationalism in India or Astra Zeneca is now trying to redirect those to the EU.

Ultimately the EU has a massive sword of Damocles hanging over Astra Zeneca. Its license to operate. Now given the EU market for the company is worth many times more in the EU than the UK how do you think that would work out? 

[CG1 Blue]

23 minutes ago, stuandjulie said:

Well except that the EU were ready to break the N Ireland agreement at the drop of a hat until the Irish complained of course. As to the vaccines, Astra Zeneca is a UK SWEDISH company NOT owned by the UK. The vaccine is made all over the world including India which now has a supply problem which will affect the UK. Eu supplies were to mainly come from an Eu plant which has had re-commissioning issues and so the Eu wants the vaccine to come from elsewhere to make up for their problem in not ordering earlier. In the meantime they say they don't want it and Italy banned a shipment from going to Australia which was all legal.

I wanted to stay in EU so am not into Brexit but in this case it is an EU ++++show and they are desperately scratching around for people to blame. They are so messed up even the French Pres and PM can't agree with each other and the rest can't agree with your own Medical regulators !! 

Add to this the damage that Macron and other leaders in the EU have done by putting doubts in their citizens' heads about the AZ vaccine, meaning that many will probably refuse to take it. 

Some on the continent seem intent on screwing up the vaccination process across the EU, which is a real shame for their people. A total shambles. 

[candide]

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It does appear that the US is dependent on vaccine components from the EU

The protectionist move also risks angering Joe Biden, the president of the US, which imports vaccines and vaccine components from the EU. Brussels wants the US to release 30 million AstraZeneca doses, which are not being used because the US regulator has not approved the Oxford jab, for export to the EU. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/17/eu-may-trigger-little-used-emergency-article-122-clause-force/

Biden is a nice guy, but for the time being, it's him who is banning exports to other countries. ????

[Patong2021]

It is obvious the EU screwed up big time. How can anyone take the EU seriously when it says the  AZ vaccine is bad, inferior and   suspends its use and then  says the UK is not giving it vaccine? Van der Leyen  is incompetent with capital I.  Such BS from EU.  Now Italy says the ban on AZ vaccine was political, and Germany officials admit that the  ban was a mistake., but still the EU push their  vindictive  UK bashing.  All that this does is prove the Brexit supporters right. The UK would not be  getting vaccinated as quickly as it is now if it was in the EU.

13 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Treacherous Albion comes to mind.
Everyone should know that the English engagements are worth only the price of the paper and that this habit was accentuated with Johnson.
I regret that the EU did not prefer to contract with the Russians and China.
I hope that the lesson has been learned to avoid such a waste during the next calls for tenders, for these vaccines, for other products and services as well.

Oh sure you have great faith in Russia and China vaccine. Great. Where are the clinical trial results that are as comprehensive as the AZ , Pfizer, Moderna, J&J vaccine  data? Where are the adverse event reports for China and Russia. You have no idea if Russia and China vaccine have side effects or if they even work and here you come to say how much better they are. Yours is not an opinion but a repeat of Russian and China disinformation campaign meant to sabotage the free world. Given the option of free choice no one in the free world wants the unproven and unknown China or Russia products.  If Russia vaccine is so great why is Russia still in such bad shape? Why is China not releasing any information on safety of its vaccines?

[Patong2021]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Biden is a nice guy, but for the time being, it's him who is banning exports to other countries. ????

Yes. And it will come back to bite USA on its backside. Already Mexico and Canada are moving to bring back pharmaceutical industry that moved to USA.  Both countries were very stupid to let pharma companies transfer assets and investment out of country.  Australia has made same mistake with the loss of its auto manufacturing capability.  I can understand USA position, and had it been managed better than it was with Trump who nearly started trade retaliation with Canada, there wouldn't be crisis today. What EU is doing is absolute madness and seems to be driven by political panic. However, it looks like the voters in Germany and France have had enough and will throw their governments out next election.

 

[CG1 Blue]

10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Or more likely they were unaware of a vaccine nationalism clause built into the UK's contract.

As for the vaccines currently in India. That could be down to any number of reasons but I suspect the two most likely are either vaccine nationalism in India or Astra Zeneca is now trying to redirect those to the EU.

Ultimately the EU has a massive sword of Damocles hanging over Astra Zeneca. Its license to operate. Now given the EU market for the company is worth many times more in the EU than the UK how do you think that would work out? 

Can you show us this clause built into the UK's contract? Nah didn't think so. 

And India are not redirecting supplies to the EU, despite you hoping that is the case. Their ministers have already explained it's due to the rising need in their country. 

And then you suggest the EU might take away AZ's license. AZ are clearly not concerned about this so far. Only you are concerned it seems.

P.S. have you forgotten you're British? You seem very keen to justify vaccine supplies to your own Scottish brethren being stopped 

[Rookiescot]

11 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

It is obvious the EU screwed up big time. How can anyone take the EU seriously when it says the  AZ vaccine is bad, inferior and   suspends its use and then  says the UK is not giving it vaccine? Van der Leyen  is incompetent with capital I.  Such BS from EU.  Now Italy says the ban on AZ vaccine was political, and Germany officials admit that the  ban was a mistake., but still the EU push their  vindictive  UK bashing.  All that this does is prove the Brexit supporters right. The UK would not be  getting vaccinated as quickly as it is now if it was in the EU.

Oh sure you have great faith in Russia and China vaccine. Great. Where are the clinical trial results that are as comprehensive as the AZ , Pfizer, Moderna, J&J vaccine  data? Where are the adverse event reports for China and Russia. You have no idea if Russia and China vaccine have side effects or if they even work and here you come to say how much better they are. Yours is not an opinion but a repeat of Russian and China disinformation campaign meant to sabotage the free world. Given the option of free choice no one in the free world wants the unproven and unknown China or Russia products.  If Russia vaccine is so great why is Russia still in such bad shape? Why is China not releasing any information on safety of its vaccines?

The EU has not said the AZ vaccine is bad. Quite the contrary actually.

[Hi from France]

55 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/17/eu-may-trigger-little-used-emergency-article-122-clause-force/

The ERG is not happy, so it is probably a step in the right direction 

Quote

Speaking to The Telegraph, David Jones, the deputy chairman of the European Research Group of Conservative MPs, said: "This is the kind of conduct you expect from racketeers, not respectable international organisations such as the EU."

Can you believe it? The chairman of the European Research Group calling the EU "respectable"?

 

He must be very afraid ????

Edited March 18, 2021 by Hi from France

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Can you show us this clause built into the UK's contract? Nah didn't think so. 

And India are not redirecting supplies to the EU, despite you hoping that is the case. Their ministers have already explained it's due to the rising need in their country. 

And then you suggest the EU might take away AZ's license. AZ are clearly not concerned about this so far. Only you are concerned it seems.

P.S. have you forgotten you're British? You seem very keen to justify vaccine supplies to your own Scottish brethren being stopped 

Ah thank you for your usual courteous interjection into what was a reasonable discourse. 

I suggest you read back on the thread as to where the clause for the UK's vaccine nationalism was demonstrated. 

So India has now started to engage with vaccine nationalism? Where is your faux outrage at them?

The EU is a powerful entity. If you believe that Astra Zeneca's license to operate has not been mentioned in conversations then you are knave. 

But then again you did believe in meaningless slogans and stuff painted on the side of a bus so perhaps I should show a little compassion.

No. I have not forgotten my roots as being Scottish. What I do believe in is fairness. If Astra Zeneca signed a contract with the UK government giving it preferential supply then that is wrong. Allowing a vaccine nationalist clause is pure stupidity and will always be challenged by others.

Wait. This is a Johnson government. Why would I expect anything other than nationalistic stupidity?

[GrandPapillon]

The EU really missed the boat when it comes to the distribution to vaccine, another sad example of why EU countries can't work together

at least the Brits got the message and left, smart

[Hi from France]

19 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

The EU really missed the boat when it comes to the distribution to vaccine, another sad example of why EU countries can't work together

nope no one regrets us buying together instead of separately, even if the contract sucked and there was a lack of anticipation.

But it's quite a proof we are being too naive with the UK and that from now, the we need to review and set up our critical supply chains without dependence on the UK

Edited March 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
content from foreign language news source removed

[Hi from France]

super happy

This is the 3rd appointment we get this week and all for the Pfizer-BioNTech. All our 75+ will be back with the kids for the Easter holidays.

Edited March 19, 2021 by onthedarkside
foreign language content removed

[cocoonclub]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

It is obvious the EU screwed up big time.

Actually it’s quite the opposite. If anyone “screwed up big time” it seems to be AZ and some countries. 

Quote

How can anyone take the EU seriously when it says the  AZ vaccine is bad, inferior and   suspends its use

Except that it did the exact opposite. But who cares about facts, right? 

Quote

still the EU push their  vindictive  UK bashing.  All that this does is prove the Brexit supporters right. The UK would not be  getting vaccinated as quickly as it is now if it was in the EU.

You sound like the dumped ex-girlfriend who even years later still feels the need to tell everyone about her ex. And Brexit must be an even bigger disaster than it already is when you have to try so desperately to make things up  

 

[Hi from France]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/18/covid-vaccine-shortage-supply-boris-johnson-lockdown-roadmap/

Ok bring it on, pal!

Quote

But the Health Secretary noted that respect for contract law was "the basis of international trade".

good news: the UK actually cares about international treaties 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/03/18/covid-vaccine-shortage-supply-boris-johnson-lockdown-roadmap/

 

Ok bring it on, pal!

 

 

 

good news: the UK actually cares about international treaties 

Mrs von der Leyen has spoken to Boris Johnson, who played down the idea that the UK could retaliate to an EU vaccine export ban by blocking the export of vaccine components. 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/18/european-medicines-agency-investigation-clears-astrazeneca-vaccine/

Makes you wonder why this is being discussed unless Boris informed VDL any  EU vaccine export ban to the UK could result in UK blocking the export of vaccine components to the EU

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Makes you wonder why this is being discussed unless Boris informed VDL any  EU vaccine export ban to the UK could result in UK blocking the export of vaccine components to the EU

Well as I said: "bring it on", I just hope Ursula checked with the other components providers ????