Retirement visa, 65000 baht transfer method

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Never seen claims of receiving Wise transfers in 'seconds', not to their Thai branch account anyhow.

Hours, rather than days, but seconds is an exaggeration.

Since Bangkok Bank now use set times to process the transfers, the fasted transfer I made took 16 hours, which was just 57,600 seconds. ????

My fastest transfer from my Belgian bank-account to my Kasikorn Thai bank-account took 7 seconds.  The SMS from Kasikorn with receipt confirmation pinged almost immediately after having hit GO on the Wise website.

I did had such 'almost instant' transfers twice (end 2020), but lately it takes approx 1 business day (when no holidays in Thailand) before I receive funds transferred.

[KannikaP]

9 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Never seen claims of receiving Wise transfers in 'seconds', not to their Thai branch account anyhow.

Hours, rather than days, but seconds is an exaggeration.

Since Bangkok Bank now use set times to process the transfers, the fasted transfer I made took 16 hours, which was just 57,600 seconds. ????

There have been several posts in another thread about Wise, where the poster insists the transfer took seconds. I do not believe them either.

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

The transfers always arrive in Bkk Bank as FTT. My IO has never asked me the source of my money, only interested that it comes from abroad. He also accepts the combo method ie THB 50k per month plus the equivalent of THB 200k in a Foreign Currency bank account

Thanks for your clarification that transferring the THB balance from your Wise borderless-account to your personal Bangkok Bank account will show up as FTT (when marking the 'funds for long-stay' option as reason for your transfer).

What is your Imm Office?  You are lucky that your local Imm Officer does not ask to provide evidence of the source of the money.  Of course if the money comes from a pension you receive, or other source of income like from rental or interests received, you won't have a problem providing evidence of its source.

[Peter Denis]

12 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

There have been several posts in another thread about Wise, where the poster insists the transfer took seconds. I do not believe them either.

See my earlier post, copied again below.

>> My fastest transfer from my Belgian bank-account to my Kasikorn Thai bank-account took 7 seconds.  The SMS from Kasikorn with receipt confirmation pinged almost immediately after having hit GO on the Wise website.

I did had such 'almost instant' transfers twice (end 2020), but lately it takes approx 1 business day (when no holidays in Thailand) before I receive funds transferred.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

There have been several posts in another thread about Wise, where the poster insists the transfer took seconds. I do not believe them either.

In the past possibly, but not recently since the Thai banks changed how they process overseas transfers. As your aware, all overseas transfers first go through the HQ of each Thai bank (not direct to a local branch) as the HQ's are the only branch with a SWIFT code.

The HQ now don't process the overseas transfer until midnight, then transfer to your local branch around 2pm that day.

The exception may be if you have an account at the HQ branch.

[DPKANKAN]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

Slower than what, 4-5 seconds or 2pm that or next day please?

Later that day or next day if done in the afternoon/evening

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

The HQ now don't process the overseas transfer until midnight, then transfer to your local branch around 2pm that day.

As far a I know Wise maintains a balance in a account at one of their partner banks and does a online transfer to a person's account when it is done in matter of seconds.

Bangkok Bank apparently does the transfer as a international transfer that gives the FTT code that takes longer than the other banks.

[Tanoshi]

@KannikaP

I've just been reviewing the Wise site.

In the review section you have an option to 'schedule' transfers.

This message is displayed when selecting the 'scheduling' transfers option.

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

As far a I know Wise maintains a balance in a account at one of their partner banks and does a online transfer to a person's account when it is done in matter of seconds.

Wise transfer it from their partner branch account through the HQ account, to your branch account.

Although it's an inhouse transfer as such it's still classed as International.

When you initially set up an account you have to give the SWIFT code details of your Thai bank and only the HQ's have a SWIFT code.

 

Wise cannot transfer direct to a branch with no SWIFT code.

[DPKANKAN]

20 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

There have been several posts in another thread about Wise, where the poster insists the transfer took seconds. I do not believe them either.

It is correct. 80% of my transfers take 4-6 seconds. It depends on what Thai bank you are with. I get an SMS ping from Kasikorn almost instantly, then an email from wise to say how many seconds it took!!!

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Wise transfer it from their partner branch account through the HQ account, to your branch account.

Wise does not do SWIFT transfers as far as I know from reading dozens of posts about it.

They do a domestic transfer from a account they have at one of the partner banks. Then they do a swift transfer to that account to keep enough funds in it for transfers.

[mtls2005]

For my most recent traditional SWIFT international wire transfers from the U.S. to BBL, I have been initiating the transfer ~ 19:30 BKK time, and receive the SMS from Bangkok Bank the next day ~ 09:40. This has been consistent for the last ~ 4 months.

 

Previously the local posting was ~ 14:30. Not sure what changed?

 

I usually pick up the Credit Advice Receipt the next business day.

 

This assumes weekday transfers, no holidays on either end of course.

 

Regarding the "source" of the funds, and whether it comes from a "pension", the order states...

 

On 4/6/2021 at 8:48 PM, Tanoshi said:

3. Evidence showing income such as pension or interest received or dividend received and/or;

 

"such as"

 

Not limited to just a pension. Believe "Income" is the key word. A pension is but one source of qualifying income.

 

Further descriptions (procedures) are limited to use of the word pension, but believe that's just for brevity?

 

Not many pensions available at age 50, yes, I know some (military, public service) are.

 

For us U.S. citizens, Social Security is not a "pension".

 

That's my read. Yes, I know some officers, and offices, may interpret the "order" differently. Thankfully, to date, CW does not.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

I usually pick up the Credit Advice Receipt the next business day.

Why do you get that since your bank book and/or statement will show it as a FTT transfer to your account at Bangkok Bank.

I have only needed my bank book and a one year statement to to apply for 2 extensions using the income option.

[polpott]

My preferred method of transferring funds from my UK bank to my Thai bank was always to walk into any branch of Bangkok bank, hand over my UK credit card and withdraw the rquired amount in cash, re depositing whatever amount I chose into my Bangkok bank account. No fees and doesn't take seconds, instant. Unfortunately, IO won't accept that method of transfer to qualify for the 65k/ month, so I only use it now in addition to the 65k.

[polpott]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Why do you get that since your bank book and/or statement will show it as a FTT transfer to your account at Bangkok Bank.

I have only needed my bank book and a one year statement to to apply for 2 extensions using the income option.

Plus bank letter confirming your account and, in Jomtien, evidence that the money has come from a pension.

 

I have found it easier to use 2x6 month statements which are available in branch rather than sending to head office for 1x12 month statement.

 

.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by polpott

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Why do you get that

 

Easy, simple, free, and shows source of funds quite clearly.

 

BBL also provides a cover letter/summary for the twleve CARs, which Immigration seems to like, in my experience.

 

What works for me, works for me.

 

What works for you, works for you.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Wise does not do SWIFT transfers as far as I know from reading dozens of posts about it.

As someone who uses Wise, I can assure you that when setting up the transfer details, you have to give details of your Thai bank account. Name of bank, account number and SWIFT code. (BKKBTHBK) for Bangkok Bank.

 

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They do a domestic transfer from a account they have at one of the partner banks. Then they do a swift transfer to that account to keep enough funds in it for transfers.

To prove my point at hand, using Kasikorn as an example.

The transfers show as a 'local/domestic' transfer in the Passbook and local Statements, hence the requirement to obtain a 'credit receipt' as proof of overseas transfer.

However if you request a 12 month statement from Kasikorn HQ, the transfers will be noted as 'International'.

 

If as you falsely believe, 'Wise' transfer direct to your local branch, then the HQ would have no record of the transfer, or be able to supply a 12 month statement. The fact they can is because the transfer is paid from Wise's local account through the HQ account (using the SWIFT code detailed), who then forward it to the local branch.

Kasikorn HQ simply do not notify the branch of the FTT coding, whereas Bangkok Bank do.

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, polpott said:

No fees and doesn't take seconds, instant.

Your delusional if you think it incurs no fees. You also only get the BKK exchange rate which is typically at least 2-3 baht less than 'Wise'.

If you forget to pay the balance off on your credit card at the end of the month, you'll also be charged interest, which is more for 'cash withdrawals' than the purchase of goods.

 

Not acceptable to Immigration as you state.

[polpott]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

Your delusional if you think it incurs no fees.

It incurs no fees No additional fees on my CC Halifax Clarity, none from Bangkok Bank.

 

I also get the mastercard exchange rate which is comprable to Transferwise.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by polpott

[Tanoshi]

39 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

For my most recent traditional SWIFT international wire transfers from the U.S. to BBL, I have been initiating the transfer ~ 19:30 BKK time, and receive the SMS from Bangkok Bank the next day ~ 09:40. This has been consistent for the last ~ 4 months.

Different than a transfer through 'Wise'.

Why do you need a credit advice receipt. Wire transfer US bank to BKK should be coded FTT in Passbook and International on local statement.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, polpott said:

It incurs no fees No additional fees on my CC, none from Bangkok Bank.

You think Bangkok Bank exchange your foreign currency to Thai baht for free.

If BKK are exchanging the currency, you'll get their rate.

[Pib]

I have seen a fair amount of posts over the last year where folks sending money via Wise from certain countries like the UK do see the money post to their Thai bank account within seconds of the transfer being funded.  Just the laws/regulations polices for money transfer in certain countries, like those using the Faster Payment System, allow the immediate settlement of the transfer.

 

Now in other countries like the U.S. which uses the Automated Clearing House (ACH) transfer system  which is basically a batch, overnight transfer system being able to transfer funds between bank/companies typically takes overnight or a few business days.   The ACH system is slowing progressing to a same-day settlement system but that's still in it's early phases.

 

Now it's been six months or so since I last used Wise for but for me sending from from the U.S. using Wise, if I initiate the transfer before 9:30am Thailand time with immediate funding from my Wise Borderless acct the funds post to my Bangkok Bank acct same business day just a few minutes pas 2pm....this is based on numerous transfers....not just one.   Bangkok Bank just seems to "post" Wise transfers right around 2pm...or at least for me they do..  Now if sending to other Thai banks and initiating & funding from my borderless acct before 9:30am Thailand time the transfer posts in the 1 to 3pm same business day ballpark. 

 

I only get these same day transfers when I immediately fund the transfer from my Wise borderless acct; if I fund via an Bank Debit (ACH transfer) where Wise needs to "pull" the funds from my U.S. bank acct it will be next business day or longer for the transfer to post....most of that time is Wise waiting for the overnight ACH clearing process on the U.S. end.

 

Speed of a Wise transfer can depend on the country sent from and currency being used for funding.

 

[polpott]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

You think Bangkok Bank exchange your foreign currency to Thai baht for free.

If BKK are exchanging the currency, you'll get their rate.

No, Mastercard do. Bangkok bank just give me the cash. no involvement with my account or exchanging currencies

 

.

Edited April 9, 2021 by polpott

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, polpott said:

No, Mastercard do. Bangkok bank just give me the cash. no involvement with my account.

Whatever method your comfortable with, but for many using the income method (which is what the topic is about) for annual extensions, it would be a method to avoid.

[polpott]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

Whatever method your comfortable with, but for many using the income method (which is what the topic is about) for annual extensions, it would be a method to avoid.

Which is what I said. Used to use that method when embassy letters were available (still available for many countries) but now I just use it for a top up during the month.

[Pib]

For a person walking into a Thai bank branch with their no foreign transaction debit card to do a counter withdrawal (a.k.a., cash advance) there "may" be a Thai bank fee of around Bt200....but that may also depend card logo (i.e., Visa, Mastercard, etc).   Varies from Thai bank to bank as to if they charge a foreign card counter withdrawal fee....some do; some don't.  

 

Like me...every few months I go to my local Krungsri banch and do a cash advance using one of my U.S. no foreign transaction fee debit cards.  Since the card I typically use due to higher withdrawal limit is a Mastercard there is no fee charged by the branch....but if it was a Visa logo they would charge a Bt200 fee.   The exchange rate given is "not" a Krungsri" rate, but the card network rate....Mastercard in this case....and the card network no-fee rate is a very good rate...typically plus or minus a hair the Thai bank TT Buying Rate used for incoming SWIFT transfers.  

 

I have the cash advance/counter withdrawal deposited into my Krungsri acct....but I could walk out with cash if desired.   So, in this case there are no fees charged by my U.S. bank, no fees charged by Krungsri, and I get the funds immediately in-hand.   When the exchange rate and fee dust settles a person gets more baht in-hand than using any money transfer service (like Wise), a bank SWIFT transfers, etc.   But the key for this working so well is to have a "no foreign transaction/no cross borders" fee card. 

 

Now don't worry about Krungsri not making any profit  in such a transaction since they did not use one of their exchange rates or charge a fee----they "did" make a profit from the "interchange fee" where the card-issuing bank (i.e., your card issued from bank XYZ) must pay a fee to the bank disbursing the cash. 

 

This cash disbursement interchange fee is strictly between the card-issuing bank and the cash dispensing bank....it is not a fee "direct" to you unless your card issuing bank has a policy to pass along the interchange fee.  If you have a no foreign transaction fee card that means your card issuing bank does not pass along the fee to you...the bank absorbs it....like the Schwab debit card (among others) which is a well known no foreign transaction fee debit card that also reimburses any ATM fee.     

 

So, when I walk into Krungsri or other Thai banks with my no foreign transaction fee foreign card to do  counter withdrawal (cash advance) and say the bank does not charge a foreign card counter fee then the Thai bank receives a cash disbursement interchange fee of $1.75 equivalent + 0.33% of amount disbursed from my card-issuing bank. 

 

See below Visa manual cash disbursement interchange fee table....Mastercard and other card networks use a very similar rate.   If withdrawing say Bt150K that equates to approx Bt54 + Bt495 totaling Bt549 which I consider a nice little interchange fee (profit) earned by the Thai bank.  Please note there are some Thai banks which may try to use their DCC rate for the cash disbursement vs the card-network rate...SCB use to and may still try this....DO NOT  accomplish any money withdrawal with a bank that uses their DCC rate as it's a much lower exchange rate....maybe up to almost 6% lower.  DCC great for the bank; terrible for the customer.

 

Although I talk Krungsri in above example, I've used Bangkok Bank  branches the same way in the past....it's just my Krungsri branch is more convenient for me.   And keep in mind if you have the funds deposited into you acct its "not" coded as an international transfer....it's just a local deposit of funds.

 

It's a great way of getting funds if you have a no foreign transaction fee card in that you get more baht than any other method after all the exchange rate and fee dust settles and you have the funds in-hand immediately, but it's no good for proving the funds came from outside Thailand if needing to use a monthly transfer method for extension of stay renewal purposes.

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Pib

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Of course if the money comes from a pension you receive, or other source of income like from rental or interests received, you won't have a problem providing evidence of its source.

I have been receiving UK State Pension WEEKLY for 8 years now, into my UK account. I have never had any notification from DWP, or from the Norwegian Pension people who send me a monthly pension. I guess that, if the IO asked, I could show him my UK bank statement which says DWP.

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, DPKANKAN said:

It is correct. 80% of my transfers take 4-6 seconds. It depends on what Thai bank you are with. I get an SMS ping from Kasikorn almost instantly, then an email from wise to say how many seconds it took!!!

I am with Bangkok Bank, one of Wise's partners. ALWAYS 2pm same or next day. 

As I have said previously, it matters not to me whether it takes 2 seconds or 2 days.

[polpott]

Just now, KannikaP said:

I have been receiving UK State Pension WEEKLY for 8 years now, into my UK account. I have never had any notification from DWP, or from the Norwegian Pension people who send me a monthly pension. I guess that, if the IO asked, I could show him my UK bank statement which says DWP.

I use the statement and original notification from DWP of my pension award.