Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[KevT]

I mean if someone were to have 95/100 of the possible points (PhD, 200K/month salary, fluent in Thai, Thai wife and kids) and 53/100 (no Thai wife and kids, 80K/month salary, no bachelor's degree, etc.) equal?

 

They both qualify, but the first (Thai wife and kids, salary, education) would normally have a better chance of getting citizenship, no? Or are both of them only worth 1 tick box each and are viewed exactly the same?

 

@GarryP

Edited December 5, 2017 by KevT

[GabbaGabbaHey]

21 minutes ago, KevT said:

I mean if someone were to have 95/100 of the possible points (PhD, 200K/month salary, fluent in Thai, Thai wife and kids) and 53/100 (no Thai wife and kids, 80K/month salary, no bachelor's degree, etc.) equal?

 

They both qualify, but the first (Thai wife and kids, salary, education) would normally have a better chance of getting citizenship, no? Or are both of them only worth 1 tick box each and are viewed exactly the same?

 

@GarryP

I think your question can be rephrased to ‘is there some competition between applicants?’ This would be the case if there was somethink like quotas and a ranking of people, but I haven't read there is for naturalization, at least officially. Now the truth is that people who apply at the same time won’t necessarily obtain citizenship at the same time, and this means each application has its own pace.

[KevT]

2 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I think your question can be rephrased to ‘is there some competition between applicants?’ This would be the case if there was somethink like quotas and a ranking of people, but I haven't read there is for naturalization, at least officially. Now the truth is that people who apply at the same time won’t necessarily obtain citizenship at the same time, and this means each application has its own pace.

No, not competition, but more a hierarchy of who they want as citizens. Surely someone who scores 95/100 points, can speak Thai fluently and has a Thai wife and kids should be given more weight than someone who has 53/100 points with no Thai wife or children and can't speak Thai?

[yankee99]

3 minutes ago, KevT said:

No, not competition, but more a hierarchy of who they want as citizens. Surely someone who scores 95/100 points, can speak Thai fluently and has a Thai wife and kids should be given more weight than someone who has 53/100 points with no Thai wife or children and can't speak Thai?

Thought it is pass or fail so once you have 50 points they dont need to keep counting. 

 

 

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Thought it is pass or fail so once you have 50 points they dont need to keep counting. 

 

 

That is my understanding too. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

38 minutes ago, yankee99 said:

Thought it is pass or fail so once you have 50 points they dont need to keep counting. 

I agree this is the general understanding in this thread, and mine too. For this specific reason I decided to not wait for my 5-year of PR and applied earlier at 4+ years PR, losing 10 points but starting almost one year earlier. There was also a mistake in the translation of my degree which said bachelor instead of master degree (to be precise: my actual original degree is the equivalent of master without saying it), and I was sad about losing 5 more points and wanted to have it translated again: SB officers told me to not worry on that, since I already passed the 50 points, they clearly emphasized it wouldn't make any difference in my application trying to get more points.

Edited December 5, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, VIBE said:

Had the meeting at the NIA.  Decided to wear full suit, but no tie.  Was in a small room with two ladies.  They were very friendly to me and my wife, and even commented that I looked handsome in my suit....haha.  It was them checking all original certs of me and my wife, then filling out a form for us both.  The lady asking me spoke Thai that was a bit over my ability, so she asked my wife to translate, then I answered in Thai.  It was very stress free and only took about 15mins.  But they could not confirm if I need to sing at the MOI meeting, so will learn the songs just incase.  Anyways, happy that after just 2 weeks of me submitting my application in Chiang Mai, I was called for the first interview.   

 

Thanks everyone for your help with my questions.

 

Best...

Well done,I hope I can get mine as quick, if they allow me to apply.

[skippybangkok]

Had the meeting at the NIA.  Decided to wear full suit, but no tie.  Was in a small room with two ladies.  They were very friendly to me and my wife, and even commented that I looked handsome in my suit....haha.  It was them checking all original certs of me and my wife, then filling out a form for us both.  The lady asking me spoke Thai that was a bit over my ability, so she asked my wife to translate, then I answered in Thai.  It was very stress free and only took about 15mins.  But they could not confirm if I need to sing at the MOI meeting, so will learn the songs just incase.  Anyways, happy that after just 2 weeks of me submitting my application in Chiang Mai, I was called for the first interview.   
 
Thanks everyone for your help with my questions.
 
Best...

Congrats - you have a few years to practice your signing if it comes to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jujus]

22 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

For this specific reason I decided to not wait for my 5-year of PR and applied earlier at 4+ years PR, losing 10 points but starting almost one year earlier.

Wait, does that mean that once you are a PR, you can apply anytime but just lose some points for not waiting 5 years after receiving your PR? Could someone please tell me where to find the official points system for naturalization? Thanks!

[GabbaGabbaHey]

47 minutes ago, Jujus said:

Wait, does that mean that once you are a PR, you can apply anytime but just lose some points for not waiting 5 years after receiving your PR? Could someone please tell me where to find the official points system for naturalization? Thanks!

Correct. This was my draft table few months ago:

 

- Security of Profession 25pts (Married with more than 60K/month => 25. Others: I haven't checked)

- Educational Level 15pts (Bachelor degree=>5 Master degree=>10, PHD=>15)
- Age 10pts (41-50=>10, 51-60=>8, 31-40 or more than 60=>4, less than 30=>2)
- Residence in Thailand 20 pts (5years of PR=>10, 7years of PR=>15, 10years of PR=>20, 5 years on yellow tabian bann =>5)

- Knowledge of Thai Language 15pts (Speak/understand=>8, Sing anthems=>2, Read=>2, Write=>3)
- General Knowledge about Thailand 10pts
- Personality 5 pts

Total: 100 pts

[THAIJAMES]

21 hours ago, VIBE said:

Had the meeting at the NIA.  Decided to wear full suit, but no tie.  Was in a small room with two ladies.  They were very friendly to me and my wife, and even commented that I looked handsome in my suit....haha.  It was them checking all original certs of me and my wife, then filling out a form for us both.  The lady asking me spoke Thai that was a bit over my ability, so she asked my wife to translate, then I answered in Thai.  It was very stress free and only took about 15mins.  But they could not confirm if I need to sing at the MOI meeting, so will learn the songs just incase.  Anyways, happy that after just 2 weeks of me submitting my application in Chiang Mai, I was called for the first interview.   

 

Thanks everyone for your help with my questions.

 

Best...

Great news!

The previous advice had always been to move your tabien baan to Bangkok as officers in the provinces would not know what to do with your application.  And wow 2 weeks after application.  Really gives those in the provinces and specifically in Chiang Mai hope.

[THAIJAMES]

1 hour ago, Jujus said:

Wait, does that mean that once you are a PR, you can apply anytime but just lose some points for not waiting 5 years after receiving your PR? Could someone please tell me where to find the official points system for naturalization? Thanks!

Only if you are married.  Single persons must wait 5 years.

So it's usually best for married persons to apply directly for citizenship than go the PR route as it adds no value to your citizenship application unless you are willing to wait the additional  5 years for 10 points.

Edited December 6, 2017 by THAIJAMES

[GabbaGabbaHey]

21 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Only if you are married.  Single persons must wait 5 years.

So it's usually best for married persons to apply directly for citizenship than go the PR route as it adds no value to your citizenship application unless you are willing to wait the additional  5 years for 10 points.

Thanks for this precision, I forgot that.

[GarryP]

44 minutes ago, THAIJAMES said:

Only if you are married.  Single persons must wait 5 years.

So it's usually best for married persons to apply directly for citizenship than go the PR route as it adds no value to your citizenship application unless you are willing to wait the additional  5 years for 10 points.

There is also the cost of PR. The official fees are very high compared to citizenship. I don't believe there is any benefit if you are married, with the exception of possible divorce or death of your wife.

[SWW]

1 hour ago, GarryP said:

There is also the cost of PR. The official fees are very high compared to citizenship. I don't believe there is any benefit if you are married, with the exception of possible divorce or death of your wife.

If I had applied for PR two years ago, I would be that much closer - but two years ago I applied for citizenship, got all the documents together and submitted my application, which was accepted about the middle of 2016. Now, I am in the process of a (somewhat messy) divorce, and I have not yet been called for the MoI interview.

 

My understanding of things is that even if I were called tomorrow (which is not all that likely), I would be pretty much screwed because I would need to take my wife to the MoI interview, and she would not have a good word to say about me. My divorce is dragging, and will not be before February (the current court date).

 

So it looks like I should apply for PR, but since I don't have all the required documents together (or the funds required) right now, I would not be able to apply for another year anyway.

 

That "possibility of divorce" can hit us all. And it wasn't even because of something I did myself! Sometimes life just throws you a curveball (or a wife who decides that since you applied for citizenship you would not do anything stupid like divorce her just because she was sleeping with some other dude for three months).

 

Wish me luck in my endeavours, it looks like I will be needing it.

[GarryP]

12 minutes ago, SWW said:

If I had applied for PR two years ago, I would be that much closer - but two years ago I applied for citizenship, got all the documents together and submitted my application, which was accepted about the middle of 2016. Now, I am in the process of a (somewhat messy) divorce, and I have not yet been called for the MoI interview.

 

My understanding of things is that even if I were called tomorrow (which is not all that likely), I would be pretty much screwed because I would need to take my wife to the MoI interview, and she would not have a good word to say about me. My divorce is dragging, and will not be before February (the current court date).

 

So it looks like I should apply for PR, but since I don't have all the required documents together (or the funds required) right now, I would not be able to apply for another year anyway.

 

That "possibility of divorce" can hit us all. And it wasn't even because of something I did myself! Sometimes life just throws you a curveball (or a wife who decides that since you applied for citizenship you would not do anything stupid like divorce her just because she was sleeping with some other dude for three months).

 

Wish me luck in my endeavours, it looks like I will be needing it.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It looks like the best way forward for you would be PR, which will add another long wait to the whole process. 

 

Hope things work out for you.

[SWW]

5 hours ago, GarryP said:

Sorry to hear about your troubles. It looks like the best way forward for you would be PR, which will add another long wait to the whole process. 

 

Hope things work out for you.

Thanks, it sounds like at least another 7 years or more before I can even apply again. And then another couple of years until the MoI interview. So after waiting for five years, I’m looking at at least another ten. And I’ve lived in Bangkok for fourteen years already.

 

Always look on the bright side of life!

[KevT]

14 hours ago, GarryP said:

15 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

Only if you are married.  Single persons must wait 5 years.

So it's usually best for married persons to apply directly for citizenship than go the PR route as it adds no value to your citizenship application unless you are willing to wait the additional  5 years for 10 points.

There is also the cost of PR. The official fees are very high compared to citizenship. I don't believe there is any benefit if you are married, with the exception of possible divorce or death of your wife.

Obtaining PR is minimum 3 years, but to apply for citizenship, you need to have had PR for 5 years, correct?

 

For costs, could you please give a rough estimate of the total cost of citizenship vs. PR?

Edited December 6, 2017 by KevT

[greenchair]

17 hours ago, SWW said:

If I had applied for PR two years ago, I would be that much closer - but two years ago I applied for citizenship, got all the documents together and submitted my application, which was accepted about the middle of 2016. Now, I am in the process of a (somewhat messy) divorce, and I have not yet been called for the MoI interview.

 

My understanding of things is that even if I were called tomorrow (which is not all that likely), I would be pretty much screwed because I would need to take my wife to the MoI interview, and she would not have a good word to say about me. My divorce is dragging, and will not be before February (the current court date).

 

So it looks like I should apply for PR, but since I don't have all the required documents together (or the funds required) right now, I would not be able to apply for another year anyway.

 

That "possibility of divorce" can hit us all. And it wasn't even because of something I did myself! Sometimes life just throws you a curveball (or a wife who decides that since you applied for citizenship you would not do anything stupid like divorce her just because she was sleeping with some other dude for three months).

 

Wish me luck in my endeavours, it looks like I will be needing it.

You know you get more flies with honey. 

The easiest course for you, is swallow your pride. Drop the divorce proceedings. Have a very nice chat to that lovely lady that you really want to remain friends. 

A nice bridge of gold should pave the way. I'm sure you could get this lady to see through what you started. My husband has been living with another for years. I don't care I got my citizenship, he got his wants. Don't worry about that. Call her up for a nice chat. 

[yankee99]

1 minute ago, greenchair said:

You know you get more flies with honey. 

The easiest course for you, is swallow your pride. Drop the divorce proceedings. Have a very nice chat to that lovely lady that you really want to remain friends. 

A nice bridge of gold should pave the way. I'm sure you could get this lady to see through what you started. My husband has been living with another for years. I don't care I got my citizenship, he got his wants. Don't worry about that. Call her up for a nice chat. 

Never happen with any women i know!! Unfortunately the best cut is a clean cut

[MrPatrickThai]

21 hours ago, SWW said:

If I had applied for PR two years ago, I would be that much closer - but two years ago I applied for citizenship, got all the documents together and submitted my application, which was accepted about the middle of 2016. Now, I am in the process of a (somewhat messy) divorce, and I have not yet been called for the MoI interview.

 

My understanding of things is that even if I were called tomorrow (which is not all that likely), I would be pretty much screwed because I would need to take my wife to the MoI interview, and she would not have a good word to say about me. My divorce is dragging, and will not be before February (the current court date).

 

So it looks like I should apply for PR, but since I don't have all the required documents together (or the funds required) right now, I would not be able to apply for another year anyway.

 

That "possibility of divorce" can hit us all. And it wasn't even because of something I did myself! Sometimes life just throws you a curveball (or a wife who decides that since you applied for citizenship you would not do anything stupid like divorce her just because she was sleeping with some other dude for three months).

 

Wish me luck in my endeavours, it looks like I will be needing it.

It's worth just offering her a sum of money to turn up. How much, you will know.

 

Is there no way you can do the interview without the wife? Say she is sick or been certified or something?

[GarryP]

43 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

It's worth just offering her a sum of money to turn up. How much, you will know.

 

Is there no way you can do the interview without the wife? Say she is sick or been certified or something?

You would need written evidence from the hospital. I was interviewed twice by MOI and my wife did not attend either interview. At the time of the first interview she was in hospital and by the time of the second interview she had already died. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

You would need written evidence from the hospital. I was interviewed twice by MOI and my wife did not attend either interview. At the time of the first interview she was in hospital and by the time of the second interview she had already died. 

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess you were applying based on marriage, did this extreme situation eventually have consequences on your application?

Edited December 7, 2017 by GabbaGabbaHey

[GarryP]

33 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I'm sorry to hear that. I guess you were applying based on marriage, did this extreme situation eventually have consequences on your application?

It made things slightly more stressful, but ultimately I still got Thai citizenship.

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, GarryP said:

It made things slightly more stressful, but ultimately I still got Thai citizenship.

Well exactly. I think the guy should continue with the process and see what happens. 

[SWW]

14 hours ago, greenchair said:

Well exactly. I think the guy should continue with the process and see what happens. 

You have never met my wife.

 

Sadly, this is not an option. She is suing me for divorce and asking for an amount of money that would make your eyes water, and a monthly "living allowance" that is more than her monthly salary. Add to that the fact that we have no kids, and that the house and condo are in her name only, and I have basically walked away from the ten-year marriage with nothing, you begin to see how reasonable she is likely to be if I ask her for a favour.

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, SWW said:

You have never met my wife.

 

Sadly, this is not an option. She is suing me for divorce and asking for an amount of money that would make your eyes water, and a monthly "living allowance" that is more than her monthly salary. Add to that the fact that we have no kids, and that the house and condo are in her name only, and I have basically walked away from the ten-year marriage with nothing, you begin to see how reasonable she is likely to be if I ask her for a favour.

I'm really sorry that has happened. 

But with all of that, I imagine you must have been quite angry. 

I think you must really sit down and see if you can't butter this up a bit. Like you say you have lost that stuff. Citizenship will cost her nothing. I would start with chatting to a good friend of hers or family member that speaks English. At least you might get one good thing out of this. Beg. Because it sounds like you want to stay here. 

Best wishes mate. 

[yankee99]

8 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I'm really sorry that has happened. 

But with all of that, I imagine you must have been quite angry. 

I think you must really sit down and see if you can't butter this up a bit. Like you say you have lost that stuff. Citizenship will cost her nothing. I would start with chatting to a good friend of hers or family member that speaks English. At least you might get one good thing out of this. Beg. Because it sounds like you want to stay here. 

Best wishes mate. 

Sounds like he has a better chance of winning the Powerball...

 

Get remarried and sign a ironclad prenuptial.

[samran]

2 hours ago, SWW said:

You have never met my wife.

 

Sadly, this is not an option. She is suing me for divorce and asking for an amount of money that would make your eyes water, and a monthly "living allowance" that is more than her monthly salary. Add to that the fact that we have no kids, and that the house and condo are in her name only, and I have basically walked away from the ten-year marriage with nothing, you begin to see how reasonable she is likely to be if I ask her for a favour.

I’d also suggest reading section 19 of the citizenship act. People who are advising you to fudge your application a little a giving you potentially shonky advice. 

[qualtrough]

So I have all the docs from the checklist and went down to the Special Branch only to have them get through the first one or two and then tell me I need to go to the Provincial Police in my province neighboring Bangkok. Somehow the fact that I live in an outlying province never came up the first time I visited them. After going to the wrong Provincial Police branch I finally obtained a number for the right place and made an appointment. Arriving on time I waited 30 minutes only to have a very junior, but nice, officer talk to me in a moldy unused room. He apparently had dealt with applications from China before but never the US, and he has trouble wrapping his mind around why someone would do that :) Anyway, he said he would have to set up a meeting with different poohbahs to accept the documents and that would be next year. I pressed him if that could be January and he said yes, don't hesitate to call and check. A bit disappointing,  but the upside is we had a long conversation and got along swimmingly. Interestingly he told me not to worry so much about the documents, the most important thing was the impression I create when interviewed, etc. Is that true? While I am sure it is good to create a good impression, it seems odd that they would say never mind documents X, X. and X, we like you so it's all good.