I still don't think the sky is falling ......but

[ozimoron]

34 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Here's the statement that was in reply to:

 

What is ignored by the naysayers is that there is no economy without eliminating the virus.  The majority of people won't ignore the virus.

 

Which is hysterical fear mongering.  The virus isn't wrecking the economy.  The response to the virus is.

 

 

Utter nonsense. The response (lock downs) are a direct response to the virus. Ergo, the virus is wrecking the economy. Except that it isn't. What is wrecking the economy is people and governments which refuse(d) to lock down. When economies lock down they get to open up again free of the virus. Then the economy booms. The Australian economy is a case in point. Probably never been better.

 

 

[ozimoron]

Eradication of the virus is the only feasible option UNTIL the bulk of the population is vaccinated and the harm reaches a low (acceptable) level.

 

Plenty of viruses have been eradicated, not just smallpox. MERS and SARS have been eradicated without a vaccine. The UK govvy has admitted that lock downs have halted the virus, not vaccines.

[cdemundo]

7 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

And what about the the potential deaths (and long term health issues) from non-Covid patients not being treated? A good example of this is the NHS in the UK reaching a 14 year high of 4.7 million people on the waiting list for treatment, and a lack of cancer screening causing predictions of a cancer 'timebomb'. 

 

The negative effects of lockdowns really should be a factor as they are significant.

 

The hospitals are not overwhelmed because of lockdowns.  It is treating COVID patients that causes other health problems to be neglected.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Misleading stats. You should be quoting the percentage of people who contracted the virus. That would be the virus which is now spreading out of control at a faster rate then ever before with an increasing death rate.

The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital.

More people died in the 1918 flu epidemic- google tells me 50 million, yet the world carried on and was able to even have another world war 21 years later.

If lockdowns destroy the economy and the amount of money borrowed cripples future generations, the effects could be worse than the aftermath of the Spanish flu, IMO.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

google tells me 50 million, yet the world carried on

Yes.....but the World carried on without those 50 million poor souls......great if you happen not to be one of them........with a mortality rate of 0.5% covid could still kill 40 million.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital.

 

Millions of people have died. Are these people somehow dispensable?

 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

More people died in the 1918 flu epidemic- google tells me 50 million, yet the world carried on and was able to even have another world war 21 years later.

 

The world will carry on if 5 billion die. That's not any kind of argument.

 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If lockdowns destroy the economy .

 

The lock downs helped the economy. The MCG will be full this weekend precisely because we lock down whjjen cases get found in the wild. The Australian economy is booming because we eradicated the virus from our community. I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating this but it seems that some just don't want to listen to the facts when it doesn't fit their agenda.

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital.

More people died in the 1918 flu epidemic- google tells me 50 million, yet the world carried on and was able to even have another world war 21 years later.

If lockdowns destroy the economy and the amount of money borrowed cripples future generations, the effects could be worse than the aftermath of the Spanish flu, IMO.

Since this is a new virus, and research is pointing to long term effects, we have NO idea what the future holds for those who've had the virus and recovered.  Impossible to predict what the outcome will be years down the road.

 

Lockdowns won't destroy the economy.  A raging virus that kills a good portion of the population will.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Millions of people have died. Are these people somehow dispensable?

I never said that, so stop trying to make out that I implied it.

I said right at the start that I was likely to die if the virus gets into the NZ population- everybody dies sooner or later. It's not possible to eliminate death and it happens by all sorts of reasons before people get old- car accidents, famine, illness etc. Death is part of life and before the 20th century people died unnecessarily by the millions.

My point is that we might save some by lockdowns, only for many to have a terrible life after.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Millions of people have died. Are these people somehow dispensable?

 

 

The world will carry on if 5 billion die. That's not any kind of argument.

 

 

The lock downs helped the economy. The MCG will be full this weekend precisely because we lock down whjjen cases get found in the wild. The Australian economy is booming because we eradicated the virus from our community. I don't know how many times I need to keep repeating this but it seems that some just don't want to listen to the facts when it doesn't fit their agenda.

Florida.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I never said that, so stop trying to make out that I implied it.

I said right at the start that I was likely to die if the virus gets into the NZ population- everybody dies sooner or later. It's not possible to eliminate death and it happens by all sorts of reasons before people get old- car accidents, famine, illness etc. Death is part of life and before the 20th century people died unnecessarily by the millions.

My point is that we might save some by lockdowns, only for many to have a terrible life after.

 

You said "The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital. "

 

You couldn't have tried harder to minimize the problem. Own it.

[Surelynot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

It's not possible to eliminate death and it happens by all sorts of reasons before people get old

Think of all that money wasted on organ transplants, cancer research and treatments, medicines for diabetes .......all that could all be ploughed back into the economy.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 

You said "The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital. "

 

You couldn't have tried harder to minimize the problem. Own it.

I didn't even mention those dying in that quote. You were trying to imply something nasty and I suggest you don't.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Think of all that money wasted on organ transplants, cancer research and treatments, medicines for diabetes .......all that could all be ploughed back into the economy.

Deflecting much?

[Surelynot]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

Deflecting much?

555....trying

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Millions of people have died. Are these people somehow dispensable?

I certainly am, but I survived with no after effects.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I certainly am, but I survived with no after effects.

Ditto, except I never had corona infection. If I do I doubt I'll be on here again, given my existing health defects.

I must be entirely dispensible, judging by the governmental interest in me, which is zero. Other than depositing the pension in my bank account they have zero concern for my life, and certainly do nothing to enhance it. On the contrary, they have allowed rents to rise to such an astronomical level that anyone living alone and trying to live on a pension may have to live in a cardboard box under a bridge just to be able to eat proper food and afford to see a Dr.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The world will carry on if 5 billion die. That's not any kind of argument.

The world would certainly be better off if there were only 3 billion humans on it. We are fast trying to pollute ourselves to extinction with 8 billion and rising, not to mention the destruction we are wreaking on the environment.

I was saying that long before corona made an appearance on this forum. In fact I was saying that if humans didn't do something to reduce numbers Gaia might do it instead.

Edited April 20, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[BritManToo]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

We are fast trying to pollute ourselves to extinction with 8 billion and rising, not to mention the destruction we are wreaking on the environment.

I don't believe I am wrecking the environment, and deny any part of your 'we', maybe they should concentrate on getting rid of those that are?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe I am wrecking the environment, and deny any part of your 'we', maybe they should concentrate on getting rid of those that are?

Sorry, but if you use aeroplanes and a car, you are contributing. Aeroplanes are polluting the atmosphere and cars use roads that are destroying vast amounts of land.

Then there is factory farming to put produce in supermarkets, which is destroying vast amounts of land as is happening in Brazil, SEA and Africa.

[Excel]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The world would certainly be better off if there were only 3 billion humans on it. We are fast trying to pollute ourselves to extinction with 8 billion and rising, not to mention the destruction we are wreaking on the environment.

I was saying that long before corona made an appearance on this forum. In fact I was saying that if humans didn't do something to reduce numbers Gaia might do it instead.

The world population when I was borne was round 2.3 billion. The earths oceans, agricultural land mass, supply of fresh water has not increased since then just the draw on those resources by this burgeoning mass of humanity of now 8 billion. Just a matter of time.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sorry, but if you use aeroplanes and a car, you are contributing. Aeroplanes are polluting the atmosphere and cars use roads that are destroying vast amounts of land.

Scooter and walking for me, and I generate half my household electricity with solar panels.

No heating, and an electric bill of 400bht/month.

 

I'd generate all my electricity if the PEA allowed me.

Edited April 20, 2021 by BritManToo

[Excel]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe I am wrecking the environment, and deny any part of your 'we', maybe they should concentrate on getting rid of those that are?

So you walked to Thailand from the UK although clearly to  do that you swum the English channel.  No you flew here just like millions of others. You are no differant to anybody else so don't try to kid yourself or us. You know we all have done our bit to create these environmental concerns. Reading some of your posts you appear to be taking medication. How do you think they were produced ? zero energy factories ?  Get real we are all contributors.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Excel

[CG1 Blue]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

When economies lock down they get to open up again free of the virus. Then the economy booms. The Australian economy is a case in point.

Lockdowns only supress the virus. Nowhere is 'free' of the virus. Economies may have a temporary boom after lockdowns, but only until the next lockdown. 

Australia is still along way from pre-pandemic GDP levels. 

 

 

 

[impulse]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Utter nonsense. The response (lock downs) are a direct response to the virus. Ergo, the virus is wrecking the economy. Except that it isn't. What is wrecking the economy is people and governments which refuse(d) to lock down. When economies lock down they get to open up again free of the virus. Then the economy booms. The Australian economy is a case in point. Probably never been better.

 

You're confusing a direct result of the virus with an unintended consequence of the reaction to the virus.

 

Then you go on to prove my point...  The virus isn't gone.  Yet, there is an economy.  Can you see how that contradicts the statement I disagreed with, calling it hysterical fear mongering?

 

What is ignored by the naysayers is that there is no economy without eliminating the virus.  The majority of people won't ignore the virus.

[ozimoron]

 

48 minutes ago, impulse said:

Then you go on to prove my point...  The virus isn't gone.  Yet, there is an economy.  Can you see how that contradicts the statement I disagreed with, calling it hysterical fear mongering?

 

Nope. The virus is gone. Nil, nada, wala. There is no virus currently in the community in Australia. Tomorrow is another day but for today there is NO virus.

[Danderman123]

15 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The vast vast majority of people that get the virus recover and carry on, just like that other respiratory virus- flu. The vast majority don't even go to hospital.

More people died in the 1918 flu epidemic- google tells me 50 million, yet the world carried on and was able to even have another world war 21 years later.

If lockdowns destroy the economy and the amount of money borrowed cripples future generations, the effects could be worse than the aftermath of the Spanish flu, IMO.

You are minimizing the impact of Covid-19 because you oppose lockdowns. 

 

Did you know that in the US, Covid-19 fatalities may have surpassed those from the Spanish Flu? 

 

Most Covid Deniers ignore the large numbers of Covid survivors who have long term symptoms. 

 

Better to eradicate the virus once and for all, as opposed to trying to live or die with it, like in Brazil. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/20/2021 at 7:28 PM, BritManToo said:

Scooter and walking for me, and I generate half my household electricity with solar panels.

No heating, and an electric bill of 400bht/month.

 

I'd generate all my electricity if the PEA allowed me.

Good for you, but I bet you don't walk to Vietnam etc ( I think you said you like Vietnam, or was it Cambodia? ).

Edited April 21, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are minimizing the impact of Covid-19 because you oppose lockdowns. 

 

Did you know that in the US, Covid-19 fatalities may have surpassed those from the Spanish Flu? 

 

Most Covid Deniers ignore the large numbers of Covid survivors who have long term symptoms. 

 

Better to eradicate the virus once and for all, as opposed to trying to live or die with it, like in Brazil. 

 

 

What makes you think it can be eradicated? I very much doubt it can be.

 

Most Covid Deniers ignore the large numbers of Covid survivors who have long term symptoms. 

You need some stats / link with that or it's just your opinion.

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

 

Nope. The virus is gone. Nil, nada, wala. There is no virus currently in the community in Australia. Tomorrow is another day but for today there is NO virus.

Only till international travel resumes, IMO.

[Danderman123]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What makes you think it can be eradicated? I very much doubt it can be.

 

Most Covid Deniers ignore the large numbers of Covid survivors who have long term symptoms. 

You need some stats / link with that or it's just your opinion.

Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery.
 

These people sometimes describe themselves as "long haulers" and the conditions have been called post-COVID-19 syndrome or "long COVID-19." These health issues are sometimes called post-COVID-19 conditions. They're generally considered to be effects of COVID-19 that persist for more than four weeks after you've been diagnosed with the COVID-19 virus.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Danderman123