Why do people say mandatory OA visa insurance is not worth it?

[yuiop]

I'm thinking about getting an OA visa next time before going to Thailand, but I remember reading somewhere about people saying that the mandatory insurance is <deleted>...why is that?

No good coverage, expensive...?

I'm 54yo if that matters.

 

Thank you

[DrJack54]

This guy can advise and provide info re non O-A

@Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

Hi @yuiop > I did PM you a Guideline document on how to meet the mandatory 400K/40K health-insurance requirement when applying for the Non Imm O-A Visa at the Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country.

To access your PM-messages just click the letter-icon next to your profile when logged in to the Forum.

[Pedrogaz]

Because the minimum insurance is 40,000 for out patient visits and 400,000 for inpatient. The cost of insurance will exceed this indemnity for people over 70 with pre-existing conditions. I would prefer to self insure. If I got a hospital bill for 5 million I could cope with it....and having insurance would be of almost no help at all,.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Pedrogaz

[chilly07]

Because pre existing conditions are not covered and stastically that is when you need it most. Better off putting the equivalent of the premiums in a bank account and use that to pay for treatment when you need it so that you don't have to pay twice. Better alternative is travel insurance which will cover emergency pre existing conditions but will insist on repatriation for follow up treatment. However the deal and profit share struck between Insurance companies and immigration is that they don't have to pay too many claims if any.

[condobrit001]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Because the minimum insurance is 40,000 for out patient visits and 400,000 for inpatient. The cost of insurance will exceed this indemnity for people over 70 with pre-existing conditions. I would prefer to self insure. If I got a hospital bill for 5 million I could cope with it....and having insurance would be of almost no help at all,.

Self insurance is not an option for OA visa extension. Thats why they call it mandatory.

[rwill]

Pacific Cross offers several different plans that qualify for the O-A visa.  The insurance offered thru Thaivisa is Pacific Cross too..

As others have mentioned they will exclude preexisting conditions.  If you are relatively healthy that should not be an issue though.

 

Our insurance covers up to 5 million baht per incident, not year.  It covers inpatient and outpatient with no deductible.  My wife is 70.  She has 4 exclusions.  Her premium is a little over 100k baht/year.  I still think it is worth it because she will be covered for anything accidental or major health issues like cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc.

 

I should note that Pacific Cross will increase your premium based on your BMI level too, up to 40% more.

 

[jingjo01]

For me the mandatory 40,000 OPD cover is DEFINITELY not worth it. I am now 77 and have had a 1 million baht IPD Cover here in Thailand for nearly 20 years. In order to renew your one year extension of stay for retirement visa you must have this cover for the Immigration Dept if your arrived in a NON O-A visa. I had to upgrade my policy to include the 40,000 OPD cover as no other company would insure me because of age. The premium last year for this was 32,000 baht with exclusions based on existing conditions. This year the premium will no doubt be more. As I have cash in the bank I would rather just pay for my outpatient treatments ( if any) rather than pay a compulsory charge for something I don’t want or need. 

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, jingjo01 said:

For me the mandatory 40,000 OPD cover is DEFINITELY not worth it. I am now 77 and have had a 1 million baht IPD Cover here in Thailand for nearly 20 years. In order to renew your one year extension of stay for retirement visa you must have this cover for the Immigration Dept if your arrived in a NON O-A visa. I had to upgrade my policy to include the 40,000 OPD cover as no other company would insure me because of age. The premium last year for this was 32,000 baht with exclusions based on existing conditions. This year the premium will no doubt be more. As I have cash in the bank I would rather just pay for my outpatient treatments ( if any) rather than pay a compulsory charge for something I don’t want or need. 

I did PM you a Guideline document on how to switch from your current Non Imm O-A based extension for reason of retirement, to a Non Imm O based extension.  The requirements/conditions are exactly the same, with the one exception that the Non Imm O based extension does NOT require the mandatory Thai IO-approved 400K/40K health-insurance. 

Please note that such a switch requires exiting and re-entering Thailand which with current border restrictions is not convenient.  But once borders are open again a simple border-run (can be done same day), will allow you to return Visa Exempt and then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa at your local Imm Office, subsequently followed by a 1-year extension based on that new Non Imm O Visa.  Doing so you would have effectively dumped the mandatory 400K/40K health-insurance requirement.

The Guideline I PM-ed you describes the process in full detail.

[Tuvoc]

46 minutes ago, rwill said:

Pacific Cross offers several different plans that qualify for the O-A visa.  The insurance offered thru Thaivisa is Pacific Cross too..

As others have mentioned they will exclude preexisting conditions.  If you are relatively healthy that should not be an issue though.

 

Our insurance covers up to 5 million baht per incident, not year.  It covers inpatient and outpatient with no deductible.  My wife is 70.  She has 4 exclusions.  Her premium is a little over 100k baht/year.  I still think it is worth it because she will be covered for anything accidental or major health issues like cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc.

 

I should note that Pacific Cross will increase your premium based on your BMI level too, up to 40% more.

 

 

Cigna covered my pre-existing conditions at no extra premium, and also no extra premium for my BMI. A very good outcome from the underwriters.  The policy would not qualify for the Non-O however (no outpatient for example)  but for me it doesn't have to, I have a normal "O".

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Tuvoc

[NancyL]

The 400,000 baht max requirement for inpatient cover is ridiculous.  It's very easy to have a bill well in excess of this.  Also, the need for outpatient cover is also ridiculous.  Most outpatient visits are cheap.  

 

Hubby has an O-A visa and also a very good international health insurance plan that he's had since age 59.  He's now age 73 and this past year was going to bounce outside Thailand to switch to an O visa, but Covid changed all that.  So, he bought the cheapest Immigration-approved plan he could find (something like 7000 baht) with no intention of every using it, keeping his good international health insurance, of course.  Think of it as a type of tax needed to get an extension, not an insurance policy.

[Andrew Dwyer]

25 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I did PM you a Guideline document on how to switch from your current Non Imm O-A based extension for reason of retirement, to a Non Imm O based extension.  The requirements/conditions are exactly the same, with the one exception that the Non Imm O based extension does NOT require the mandatory Thai IO-approved 400K/40K health-insurance. 

Please note that such a switch requires exiting and re-entering Thailand which with current border restrictions is not convenient.  But once borders are open again a simple border-run (can be done same day), will allow you to return Visa Exempt and then apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa at your local Imm Office, subsequently followed by a 1-year extension based on that new Non Imm O Visa.  Doing so you would have effectively dumped the mandatory 400K/40K health-insurance requirement.

The Guideline I PM-ed you describes the process in full detail.

Peter,

I believe also changing to an extension based on marriage, rather than retirement, will mean that the mandatory 40k/400k insurance is not required for extensions based on an OA visa.

 

Is that still the case ?

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Peter,

I believe also changing to an extension based on marriage, rather than retirement, will mean that the mandatory 40k/400k insurance is not required for extensions based on an OA visa.

 

Is that still the case ?

Yes, it is.  A Thai IO-approved 400K/40K health-insurance policy is ONLY required when applying for the 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of RETIREMENT. 

When applying for any other reason (e.g. marriage to a Thai national, Thai dependant children, other...) that insurance is NOT required.

Note: When residing and applying in Phuket and over 75 years of age or already staying long-term on your Non Imm O-A Visa there, the insurance requirement can be waved.  But afaik Phuket is the only province that has such a regulation.

Edited April 18, 2021 by Peter Denis

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When applying for any other reason (e.g. marriage to a Thai national, Thai dependant children, other...) that insurance is NOT required

Could you clarify what is required for that change. If money in bank then simple. Have the 400k in bank for 2 months + under consideration period.

If income method, my understanding is that would need plan ahead and be able to show 12 or 13 monthly transfers prior to switch?

[Peter Denis]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Could you clarify what is required for that change. If money in bank then simple. Have the 400k in bank for 2 months + under consideration period.

If income method, my understanding is that would need plan ahead and be able to show 12 or 13 monthly transfers prior to switch?

Yes, that's correct, except that there is no need for planning the switch.  Because when you met the conditions for maintaining your Non Imm O-A Visa for reason of retirement by using 

- Funds-in-Bank method (+800K for first 3 and last 2 months and minimum of +400K in between), or

- Monthly income transfer method (+65K transferred each and every month with foreign origins proven), or

- Embassy-issued income letter (evidence of having +65K monthly foreign income);

there would not be any financial issue when switching to a 1-year extension for reason of marriage, as in all 3 cases the requirements for such a marriage-extension are LOWER than what you are required to do anyway when on a retirement-extension.

More specifically for a marriage-extension application:

- Funds-in-Bank method (+400K seasoned for 2 months prior to applying for the extension), or

- Monthly income transfer method (+40K transfered each and every month with foreign origins proven), or

- Embassy-issued income letter (evidence of having +40K monthly foreign income).

 

Obviously for a marriage-extension there are additional documentation requirements to be met, basically to provide evidence that you are still married to your Thai wife and are living together at a joint address.

Note: For those that intend to SWITCH from a retirement-extension to a marriage-extension, be aware that you cannot do that mid-term.  The 1-year extension application process consists of 2 steps.

In step 1 the Imm Officer will check whether you met the conditions under which your current 1-year extension of stay for reason of retirement, was provided (see higher).

And it is ONLY when those conditions are met that in step 2 the Imm Officer will check whether you meet the requirements for your marriage-extension.

So it is not because you intend to switch to a marriage-extension that you can stop meeting the financial conditions under which your current 1-year retirement-extension was provided.  

Edited April 18, 2021 by Peter Denis

[wwest5829]

at your age, it may be worthwhile for you. Since you ask why some say it is not worth it, let me explain why it is useless for myself. First, I am 74 with pre-existing heart issues. So, insurance companies will not cover my greatest risk. At my age the premiums, without covering the pre-existing conditions is out of my ability to pay so ... I and others opt for the 200,000 baht deductible. Given the above the annual premium is 11,400 baht. I rationalize it as an additional tax to be allowed to stay retired in Thailand as a retired working middle class US citizen (you understand, I cannot afford to live in my own country so I came to a lower cost country). There may be other Thai Visa Retirement options but Covid blocked some of the options.

Edited April 18, 2021 by wwest5829

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

at your age, it may be worthwhile for you. Since you ask why some say it is not worth it, let me explain why it is useless for myself. First, I am 74 with pre-existing heart issues. So, insurance companies will not cover my greatest risk. At my age the premiums, without covering the pre-existing conditions is out of my ability to pay so ... I and others opt for the 200,000 baht deductible. Given the above the annual premium is 11,400 baht. I rationalize it as an additional tax to be allowed to stay retired in Thailand as a retired working middle class US citizen (you understand, I cannot afford to live in my own country so I came to a lower cost country). There may be other Thai Visa Retirement options but Covid blocked some of the options.

Hi,  can you please share with what insurance company are you with fit your 200K deductible. 

Thanks in advance 

Warmest 

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

Hi,  can you please share with what insurance company are you with fit your 200K deductible. 

Thanks in advance 

Warmest 

He mentioned 11.400 THB annual premium at age 74, so must be LMG Insurance Plan-1 (with 200K deductible). 

I did PM you a guideline document on how to apply for that cheapest Non Imm O-A compliant health-insurance policy, including tips and caveats when subscribing.

[wwest5829]

11 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

He mentioned 11.400 THB annual premium at age 74, so must be LMG Insurance Plan-1 (with 200K deductible). 

I did PM you a guideline document on how to apply for that cheapest Non Imm O-A compliant health-insurance policy, including tips and caveats when subscribing.

Correct.

[wwest5829]

15 minutes ago, KaputtAlreadyNa said:

Hi,  can you please share with what insurance company are you with fit your 200K deductible. 

Thanks in advance 

Warmest 

LMG

[Jen65]

6 hours ago, rwill said:

Pacific Cross offers several different plans that qualify for the O-A visa.  The insurance offered thru Thaivisa is Pacific Cross too..

As others have mentioned they will exclude preexisting conditions.  If you are relatively healthy that should not be an issue though.

 

Our insurance covers up to 5 million baht per incident, not year.  It covers inpatient and outpatient with no deductible.  My wife is 70.  She has 4 exclusions.  Her premium is a little over 100k baht/year.  I still think it is worth it because she will be covered for anything accidental or major health issues like cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc.

 

I should note that Pacific Cross will increase your premium based on your BMI level too, up to 40% more.

 

I have my Health / Covid insurance with Pacific Cross and all in compliance with obtaining my O-A visa and CofE when coming back into Thailand last October .   Just turned 70 , two pre-existing conditions but annual medical shows in perfect health .   Premiums are reasonable ,especially as compared with what you would pay in Europe and if you agree to good excess / deductible , this also reduces the premiums but just keep a lump sum in the bank/invested to cover that and the unexpected !!

[DividendGuy]

Hi Peter Denis.

 

If applicable, could you PM me the same information as you sent to Jingo01? I have a yearly "O" visa based on retirement extension and 800K in a bank account to qualify for the yearly extension. I am 73 years old, and would like to continue with self-insuring or understand my options regarding the 400K/40K insurance policy the Thai government is trying to push on foreigners here. I don't mind a big deductible as I would have no plans to use the Thai policy, but only to show it to the IO when applying for my yearly "O" retirement extension. 

[NZAMBOY]

7 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

at your age, it may be worthwhile for you. Since you ask why some say it is not worth it, let me explain why it is useless for myself. First, I am 74 with pre-existing heart issues. So, insurance companies will not cover my greatest risk. At my age the premiums, without covering the pre-existing conditions is out of my ability to pay so ... I and others opt for the 200,000 baht deductible. Given the above the annual premium is 11,400 baht. I rationalize it as an additional tax to be allowed to stay retired in Thailand as a retired working middle class US citizen (you understand, I cannot afford to live in my own country so I came to a lower cost country). There may be other Thai Visa Retirement options but Covid blocked some of the options.

My health, age, and financial situation seems to be about the same a yourself...i have recently  gotten a quote from Pacific Cross of 78k baht/year with 300k baht deductible and 5m limit...so my question is how have you been able to get a quote of 11,400 baht...

cheers

[DrJack54]

5 hours ago, DividendGuy said:

I would have no plans to use the Thai policy, but only to show it to the IO when applying for my yearly "O" retirement extension. 

Insurance is not required to obtain extension to non O based on retirement.

[Peter Denis]

6 hours ago, DividendGuy said:

Hi Peter Denis.

 

If applicable, could you PM me the same information as you sent to Jingo01? I have a yearly "O" visa based on retirement extension and 800K in a bank account to qualify for the yearly extension. I am 73 years old, and would like to continue with self-insuring or understand my options regarding the 400K/40K insurance policy the Thai government is trying to push on foreigners here. I don't mind a big deductible as I would have no plans to use the Thai policy, but only to show it to the IO when applying for my yearly "O" retirement extension. 

Hi @DividendGuy

No problem sending you the info, but I do not want to burden you with unnecessary information (which will only confuse you), hence first this question to you.

You wrote > I have a yearly "O" visa based on retirement extension and 800K in a bank account to qualify for the yearly extension.

If that is indeed the case and your yearly extension is based on an original Non Imm O Visa, then the insurance requirement is not applicable for you.

The mandatory Thai IO-approved 400K/40K in/out-patient insurance (issued by a TGIA-associated insurer) is ONLY required when applying for the 1-year extension

- based on an original Non Imm O-A Visa;

- for reason of RETIREMENT.

When you are not sure whether the original Visa you have been extending is an O or an O-A type:

1 - A Non Imm O-A Visa can ONLY be applied for at the Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country (or your country of permanent residence);

2 - A Non Imm O-A Visa is valid for a full year, and during that year every entry you made on that still valid Non Imm O-A Visa would have provided you with a 1-year permission to stay.

If you entered Thailand Visa-Exempt or an a Tourist Visa, and then applied for a Visa, that would be a 90-day Non Imm O Visa.

And when you applied for a Non Imm O Visa at the Thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country or a neighboring country, it will have provided you only with a 90-day permission to stay when entering Thailand.

> So the above will allow you to determine which type of Visa your extension is based on (O or O-A).

And do let me know if it turns out that - contrary to what you write - that the original Visa on which you entered Thailand was a Non Imm O-A type.  In that case, the insurance will be applicable when applying for the 1-year extension for reason of RETIREMENT (when married to a Thai national or with Thai dependent children, you can apply for that reason with no need for insurance).

And then I will PM you a comprehensive guideline on how to get rid of that pesky insurance or alternatively what is the cheapest insurance to meet the requirement.

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, NZAMBOY said:

My health, age, and financial situation seems to be about the same a yourself...i have recently  gotten a quote from Pacific Cross of 78k baht/year with 300k baht deductible and 5m limit...so my question is how have you been able to get a quote of 11,400 baht...

cheers

LMG 200,000 deductible. A I say, I just look at it as a tax to remain until I can change Thai Visa type when travel becomes possible. I further rationalized by figuring a trip over to, say, Vietnam and returning to change to an “O” Visa for reason of retirement would cost me more than the 11,400 baht.

[NancyL]

6 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

LMG 200,000 deductible. A I say, I just look at it as a tax to remain until I can change Thai Visa type when travel becomes possible. I further rationalized by figuring a trip over to, say, Vietnam and returning to change to an “O” Visa for reason of retirement would cost me more than the 11,400 baht.

Hubby has told me that this year the visa agent told him his "insurance tax" is going to cost something like 11,000 baht to support the annual extension from his original O-A visa.  As mentioned, it's cheaper than a quick trip to Vietnam or Laos to switch over to an O visa.  Just don't mistake it for a real health insurance policy, especially since we have no desire to make a trip to either of these countries.  

[sqwakvfr]

I have a Pacific Cross Health Insurance policy that is both OA and COE compliant.  The annual premium is 61,000 Baht(I am under 60).  The IPD has a max coverage of 3.5 Million Baht and this covers Covid 19 as well.  At first I did not want to buy this policy but I have developed a level of faith and trust with PCL(that is so far  because you never know about any insurance company).  For comparison the annual premium for the cheapest health insurance for me in the US would be over $7,000 per year.  Based upon this comparison I believe the OA insurance I am required to buy is worth it(I probably would feel different if I was over 70).  

[RocketDog]

19 hours ago, Jen65 said:

I have my Health / Covid insurance with Pacific Cross and all in compliance with obtaining my O-A visa and CofE when coming back into Thailand last October .   Just turned 70 , two pre-existing conditions but annual medical shows in perfect health .   Premiums are reasonable ,especially as compared with what you would pay in Europe and if you agree to good excess / deductible , this also reduces the premiums but just keep a lump sum in the bank/invested to cover that and the unexpected !!

Agreed. I am doing the same with PC also. I'm 71 and pay 55k thb for coverage with 200k deductible. 

As an American citizen I have both Medicare and a Medicare supplemental policy, but they do me no good in Thailand. 

 

Since I want decent coverage here anyway, I stay with my non OA instead of going the non O route. I will likely continue this approach and stay with PC because if I do they will continue coverage past 75, at increasing cost every year of course. 

For some of us this is a viable and prudent option that I don't consider an immigration penalty.