Vaccinations for Expats at Embassies

[Presnock]

State hasn't replied at all yet.  As for logistics they could do the J&J without any real problems but the worst problem would be to get the virus and since most of those retired here are senior in age and the virus is much worse for us.  I still have to hear from my insurance about vaccines that are not approved by the US and non-preferred hospitalization as the cost would be different.  Anyway, I

actually do not think that the US will send the vaccines to diplomatic missions especially like here when the local govt can't provide for their own people yet let alone for expats.  But just the fact that WE have to pay taxes (Americans) no matter where we live, just seems the govt should do something in my opinion.  

 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

This is different to what you said in an earlier post.My understanding is that in due course private hospitals will be able to offer vaccinations.This might take a few months and should be open to all comers: there is unlikely to be any prioritization in terms of high risk.

 

The Embassy issue is something else and much of the chatter on this thread is unrealistic. The Western embassies will never offer facilities to Western expatriates.Nor in a country like Thailand with a solid health infrastructure, should they.What I object to is the patronizing advice from embassies to fellow citizens on using local facilities, while they obtain protection from overseas on the quiet. I'm not saying they're wrong to do it but there's a whiff of hypocrisy involved.

Did you miss the recent report from a major Thai private hospital saying they are only putting Thais on their list?

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Jingthing

[John Drake]

On 4/25/2021 at 11:43 AM, internationalism said:

some 2 months ago chinese were pressing thai government on vax for their citizens in thailand, that was one of the conditions of getting an emergency sinovac.

possibly the 500k doses sinovac offered free by chinese government has this condition included. But thai government did not say much. Very much in the panic mode and beyond public and press scrutiny. It well might cover all chinese, even tourists, but would be done by backdoor way, maybe chinese cultural centre, different associations

 

Yes, and here is the link to the article.  

 

[John Drake]

On 4/25/2021 at 11:43 AM, internationalism said:

It well might cover all chinese, even tourists, but would be done by backdoor way, maybe chinese cultural centre, different associations

 

And here is another article on just that.  

Quote

Firstly, the Chinese said they were sending 800,000 more doses of vaccine that are expected to arrive on March 25th. Yang Sin, acting on behalf of the ambassador, asked Anutin to ensure that the vaccinations went to Chinese people living in Thailand as a matter of priority 

 

 

[philba]

17 hours ago, Dickp said:

I have read the full string. I have personal  knowledge of the capability of the of the Embassy, know every building and every office, and can tell you two things. 1.) They have the capability to give the shots. 2.) They will Not take care of the expat community.

What do you mean by every building ?

 

There's only one.

[Jingthing]

Of course it would be a political powder keg if non diplomat Americans were getting vaccines before Thais.

 

I have mentioned that multiple times before. 

 

However if it turns out there is no access for expats (including paid vaccines at privare hospitals) except for those in the Thai medical system and the Thai public priority system begins which does prioritize high risk groups but not expats THEN it's time for the embassies to take action!

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Jingthing

[expatjustice]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If the British Embassy started giving out the Chinese virus vaccinations, I would bet they would even charge more than the vastly  overcharging private hospitals, maybe starting around 10.000 Bt per shot.

As things currently stand in Thailand it appears they would be giving out vaccinations for the British Virus, though….. ????????‍♂️

[jayboy]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Did you miss the recent report from a major Thai private hospital saying they are only putting Thais on their list?

 

 

Yes I did.Which one and what did it say?

 

Some major hospitals in response to inquiries point out that Covid 19 vaccination bookings with the BMA Health Office requires a Thai ID.However you seem to be suggesting more than this.

[JohnOFphon]

Why not send a letter asking for help in getting a jab?

I know the US embassy is of little to no help, but if we ask, it can't hurt.

[email protected] 

This is where I send my question.

 

Maybe I will get an answer....

[newnative]

12 hours ago, Scott said:

Years ago, I worked for a program with the US Embassy.  Although an Embassy could possibly give out vaccines, it would require a major logistics problem and the political ramifications are potentially enormous.  

 

First, the setting up of a medical facility at an Embassy/Consulate would require a lot of effort.  The issue of security at an embassy is paramount, so getting large numbers in to get a shot would be tricky.  

 

Second, regardless of which vaccine is offered, they do require care in storage and the amount of time they can be out before being administered.   That means people being able to be there at a scheduled time.  It also means medical personnel being able to handle events like anaphylactic reactions.   Then there is the issue of giving the second shot, if required.  

Diplomatically and politically there are some major hurdles.  How do you think the Thai gov't is going to react to US citizens being given vaccines ahead of Thais?   How do you think the general Thai population is going to react?  

 

    I respectfully disagree.  This is America we're talking about.  President Kennedy famously set the goal to land a man on the moon by the end of the decade.  NASA said 'can do'--and did.  The other day there was a mini-helicopter flying around Mars.  Getting some vaccines from one country to another country and getting them in the arms of Americans should not be that big a logistics problem.  A piece of cake, in comparison.

    As for the diplomacy, China has been eating America's lunch for sometime now with regard to relations with Thailand.  What better way for America to earn some diplomatic goodwill than by offering 10 million vaccine doses to help get Thailand's vaccination program up and running until the local production starts?  China has sent its vaccine and Russia has already offered its Sputnik V.  They're both leaving America in the dust.  As part of the offer, it would be pretty simple to include the provision that a small part of the shipment would be set aside for Americans in Thailand. 

[Emdog]

How about US convert some of those "black sites" that were overseen by former CIA director Haskell into vaccine clinics? I imagine security would be fairly good, heard they were close to airport for those in hinterland easy access. Joking.... maybe a little bit

Get some single dose J&J vaccine and all could be good...

I don't think there would be uproar among local Thais over US giving vaccines to US citizens. More akin to "Well, that makes sense."

After all there was that political party "Thai Rak Thai" (Thai love Thai) so hardly room to criticize "America love Americans" action....

[iamariva1957]

18 hours ago, mikecha said:

You choose to be here not Your goverment so put uo with it or make a vaxine run and the saq again or not     thats the situation and thats life 

Cute response.... myopic and  bad grammar. No... not my country and not my government. However... my country is mine and so has responsibilities under its constitution to me as well as those I must follow. Foreign Offices and State Departments are there to represent their countries interests and the safety and welfare of its citizens living in those countries.  It is their job. 

[AgMech Cowboy]

On 4/25/2021 at 5:10 AM, asiacurious said:

Would it be a good idea for countries to offer their citizens vaccinations at their embassies?

No, bad idea. The embassy does nothing for free. It will be cheaper to purchase the vaccine from a private hospital. I suggest Bangkok Hospital, Ramkhamheng or (maybe) Samitivej. Bangkok Nursing and Bumrungrad will be great but more expensive.

[Emdog]

35 minutes ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

No, bad idea. The embassy does nothing for free. It will be cheaper to purchase the vaccine from a private hospital. I suggest Bangkok Hospital, Ramkhamheng or (maybe) Samitivej. Bangkok Nursing and Bumrungrad will be great but more expensive.

Can't buy what they (Thai hospitals) don't have. News today from US says at least 60 million extra doses there. 5 million US expats. I don't expect embassy to do something "for free". I expect them to do something useful with US income taxes I have paid. Fat chance...

Edited April 27, 2021 by Emdog

[asiacurious]

10 hours ago, newnative said:

    This morning I got an email from Democrats Abroad Thailand with a survey to fill out on this issue.  They have formed a covid 19 task force and are trying to get the US government to make vaccines available for Americans living in Thailand.  I filled out the survey and I hope anyone else getting it will do so, as well.  The more numbers, perhaps the more they will listen to us.  

 

Was this the survey you got?

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, asiacurious said:

 

Was this the survey you got?

Yes.

[rupert the bear]

On 4/26/2021 at 3:35 PM, malibukid said:

thrown under the bus as usual

yes agreed and now the virtue signallers are leaping to indias assistance whilst neglecing their own citizens,india has a nuclear weapon and huge armed forces,help your own people first,a complete pc disgrace

[geisha]

So, all of you who live near the Embassy would have a right to a vaccination, and those others that live far south or north don’t count ? 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, geisha said:

So, all of you who live near the Embassy would have a right to a vaccination, and those others that live far south or north don’t count ? 

It should be Johnson and Johnson. One jab. That would make it easier for expats not in Bangkok. 

[GinBoy2]

On 4/24/2021 at 10:04 PM, Emdog said:

I've posted in other threads about abysmal US state dept decisions regarding expats: "depend on local resources"... also some notice that embassy staff around world has been give vaccines.

Fair to assume that "staff" would include the numerous Thai nationals that work at US embassy, consulate. Don't begrudge that, get jab where ever you can, but something seems intrinsically wrong with lack of concern shown by state dept with us rabble abroad. If they gave a damn about us, they would be working to get us vaccinated ASAP.

Seems the only "service" embassies care about would be our funeral services.

Why would you think the US embassy would be in the least bit responsible for giving you a Covid shot?

 

You chose to live in Thailand, so should the US Embassy also be responsible to pay if you break your leg?

 

So I'd address your frustrations to the Government of the country that you have chosen to live in

[asiacurious]

 

1 hour ago, rupert the bear said:

yes agreed and now the virtue signallers are leaping to indias assistance whilst neglecing their own citizens,india has a nuclear weapon and huge armed forces,help your own people first,a complete pc disgrace

 

By all accounts, the US and UK are well past their peak demand for hospital beds and critical care for Covid patients, and are well on their way to re-opening as they continue to vaccinate people.  That leaves them with stockpiles of PPE, ventilators, and oxygen concentrators they can share with the parts of the world that need it most.  

 

As much as I would love to immediately receive a vaccine via my embassy, right now expats in Thailand are quite capable of staying healthy and safe.  Said no one ever, go out as little as possible and when you do go out, wear a mask (correctly!) and avoid crowds.

 

Words fail me by your response.  Sending help to India to isn't about virtue signalling or being PC.  It's about trying to get control over the virus in a part of the world where it is literally out of control.  Sending supplies isn't some sort radical chic move on the part of the US, UK, and other nations. 

 

I can't even....  Look, I'm not here to make friends or throw anyone under the bus, but you left out many pearl-clutching buzzwords one would expect to find in such a woke-less, sjw comment.  Perhaps you'll think I'm just a bleeding heart <deleted> for my response to you.  That's ok by me - words are just words and I won't be offended.  (In a way, it's sort of like me thinking you might be a champion of calling a lot of true things fake news.)

 

What does India having a nuclear weapon have to do with any of this?  Can they nuke away the virus?  Sorry, not sorry for saying, but pitting nation against nation may satisfy the identity politics of some snowflakes, but it doesn't do anything to stop the virus from spreading and mutating.  More contagious and deadly strains are not what the world needs.  If the world doesn't get this under control as quickly as possible, the planet is looking at the potential for a widespread literal cancel culture.

 

(If I missed anyone's favorite signaling buzzwords in my response, please let me know so I can add them to my list!)

[asiacurious]

36 minutes ago, geisha said:

So, all of you who live near the Embassy would have a right to a vaccination, and those others that live far south or north don’t count ? 

 

I read your comment sort of tongue in cheek, but I'll respond to it as if you were serious....

 

If given the choice between flying half-way around the world, or taking a train/bus/car/flight to receive the vaccine at the embassy (or consulate in Chiang Mai could also be possible) which would you prefer?

[asiacurious]

20 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Why would you think the US embassy would be in the least bit responsible for giving you a Covid shot?

 

You chose to live in Thailand, so should the US Embassy also be responsible to pay if you break your leg?

 

So I'd address your frustrations to the Government of the country that you have chosen to live in

 

The US Government has a very clear policy of getting as many people as possible in the United States vaccinated.  The government purchased the vaccines and they are available to anyone/everyone free of charge.  It's in the economic, political, and strategic interests of the US to have a healthy and productive population.

 

The question is really....  Does the US have any economic, political, and strategic interest in ensuring US Citizens living abroad remain healthy and productive?

 

I would argue that they do, though there may be other competing diplomatic interests (which of course can include economic, political, and strategic interests) that make offering vaccinations to citizens abroad less desirable.

[GinBoy2]

1 minute ago, asiacurious said:

 

The US Government has a very clear policy of getting as many people as possible in the United States vaccinated.  The government purchased the vaccines and they are available to anyone/everyone free of charge.  It's in the economic, political, and strategic interests of the US to have a healthy and productive population.

 

The question is really....  Does the US have any economic, political, and strategic interest in ensuring US Citizens living abroad remain healthy and productive?

 

I would argue that they do, though there may be other competing diplomatic interests (which of course can include economic, political, and strategic interests) that make offering vaccinations to citizens abroad less desirable.

You could throw that argument back around.

 

Does the Thai Government have a strategic interest in getting all it's population, Thai or not vaccinated? 

 

Most US States are vaccinating anyone, citizen or not, but they do live there.

 

So again maybe bitch about the country you live in, not the country you chose to leave

[asiacurious]

33 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

You could throw that argument back around.

 

Does the Thai Government have a strategic interest in getting all it's population, Thai or not vaccinated? 

 

Most US States are vaccinating anyone, citizen or not, but they do live there.

 

So again maybe bitch about the country you live in, not the country you chose to leave

 

I think Thailand absolutely DOES have a strategic interest in getting everyone in Thailand vaccinated, citizens or not.  Here legally or not.  And I am as annoyed as the next person about Thailand's slowness to vaccinate, and their decision to wait until they manufacture vaccines in country rather than import.

 

But that doesn't meant I can't also believe that the countries can't supply vaccines to their embassies abroad for their citizens living in those countries, assuming they have a surplus at home and there isn't a significantly greater need elsewhere.

[DerbyDan]

If I got a jab in a thai hospital would the nurse say krup?

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Why would you think the US embassy would be in the least bit responsible for giving you a Covid shot?

 

You chose to live in Thailand, so should the US Embassy also be responsible to pay if you break your leg?

 

So I'd address your frustrations to the Government of the country that you have chosen to live in

They don't have to but they really should. 

The USA will soon be exporting many millions of doses abroad.

It's the right thing to do to help US nationals in countries where foreigners are facing challenges being included in local access.

So not to every country but certainly to Thailand. 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

Why would you think the US embassy would be in the least bit responsible for giving you a Covid shot?

 

You chose to live in Thailand, so should the US Embassy also be responsible to pay if you break your leg?

 

So I'd address your frustrations to the Government of the country that you have chosen to live in

As a Brit I also chose to live in Thailand and I expect little or nothing from my embassy or my country. However just as the Americans pay tax to the USA wherever they live in the world, we Brits also pay tax to the UK wherever we live in the world, and as a taxpayer, I feel that I also have the right to be looked after and helped by my embassy and country.

 

Sadly that isn't so any more.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

As a Brit I also chose to live in Thailand and I expect little or nothing from my embassy or my country. However just as the Americans pay tax to the USA wherever they live in the world, we Brits also pay tax to the UK wherever we live in the world, and as a taxpayer, I feel that I also have the right to be looked after and helped by my embassy and country.

 

Sadly that isn't so any more.

 

On the flipside, a GBP that goes to taking care of a Brit living in London circulates through the British economy several times, providing British employment and paying British taxes each time it changes hands.  A GBP that goes to a Brit living in Thailand disappears from the British economy with no knock-on benefit.   That's a huge difference.

 

Same with a $USD.

 

I'm against the embassy providing vaccinations just on the optics and security issues.  Nothing endears the locals like being outside looking in when they can't get a life saving jab themselves.  Not to mention, I don't think embassies should compete with local businesses like hospitals who will (eventually) be selling jabs to foreigners.

 

[asiacurious]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

On the flipside, a GBP that goes to taking care of a Brit living in London circulates through the British economy several times, providing British employment and paying British taxes each time it changes hands.  A GBP that goes to a Brit living in Thailand disappears from the British economy with no knock-on benefit.   That's a huge difference.

 

This makes no sense.

 

One could argue that the pound/dollar spent in Thailand makes it possible for Thailand to spend the money on British/American exports that are imported to Thailand.  That's a pretty significant knock on benefit.

 

And your example doesn't present a huge difference, but this does:  The Brit/American living in Thailand who pays taxes back home, doesn't receive any benefit from those taxes.  Taxes which pay for roads, hospitals, police, fire, and other infrastructure and services.

 

1 hour ago, impulse said:

I'm against the embassy providing vaccinations just on the optics and security issues.  Nothing endears the locals like being outside looking in when they can't get a life saving jab themselves.  Not to mention, I don't think embassies should compete with local businesses like hospitals who will (eventually) be selling jabs to foreigners.

 

The optics issue does make some sense, though I think the optics of paying for jabs at a private hospital are actually worse than expats receiving vaccinations by their embassies.  Since most foreigners in Thailand can afford to pay a hefty fee to get vaccinated, the optics simply become "rich farang buying their way to the front of the line".  That's pretty awful.

 

(There would also be bad optics for rich Thais buying their way to the front of the line, but that's a bigger concern for Thais than for expats, and it might help explain - at least in part - the reason the government has slow-walked the ability of hospitals to sell shots.)

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by asiacurious