Our Thai tenants have just asked for a rent reduction

[WebGuy]

Yeah. Try to dicrease the rent by 10 - 15% for the next rhree months and monitor the situation.

[KannikaP]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:25 PM, richard_smith237 said:

Who paid for the alterations ????

Boris paid himself. 555

[Wake Up]

This happens between businesses all the time all over the world. The most successful business owners have a reputation of being fair to “changed” events to others. The other business people are miserable and lose their good faith in the market.
 

You know what is fair. You don’t have  to ask a forum if expats. I hope you are not simply looking for a good reason to say no. 
 

Take the humble route and rework the lease gracefully the first time is my opinion.
 

. 

[Toby1947]

Tell them you want free meals there for you and your family during the period of rent reduction. Then you will see how generous they are towards others. Suspect you’re in for regular rent wars but watch out they don’t poison you.

[jack71]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

and you have to ask the members on TVF for their advice instead of being a man and making your own decision about this.

You have no idea what your talking about and you dont know my background or what Im capable of.  Dont ever make assumptions about me or lose your manners again. 

[jack71]

10 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

Tell them you want free meals there for you and your family during the period of rent reduction. Then you will see how generous they are towards others. Suspect you’re in for regular rent wars but watch out they don’t poison you.

Thanks for giving me my first laugh for the day...

[Russell17au]

14 minutes ago, jack71 said:

You have no idea what your talking about and you dont know my background or what Im capable of.  Dont ever make assumptions about me or lose your manners again. 

Anything you say Mr Dictator. hahahahahahahahah. what a joke "you don't know my background or what I'm capable of" Are you threatening me?

[jack71]

2 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Anything you say Mr Dictator. hahahahahahahahah. what a joke "you don't know my background or what I'm capable of" Are you threatening me?

Troll alert, troll alert. Member of the nanny state of Australia is on thai visa.....

[Olmate]

30 minutes ago, jack71 said:

You have no idea what your talking about and you dont know my background or what Im capable of.  Dont ever make assumptions about me or lose your manners again. 

 A hard man is good to find, but  r u for real? Public forum u take what’s offered Jack.

[Airalee]

3 hours ago, Russell17au said:

You coerced them with the 2 free months rent.

I don’t think you understand the meaning of “coerce”

 

 

[Drew3223]

The main sticking point for me personally would be that the optimal time to negotiate reduced rent would have been when the contract was signed which was four months ago. If you were even a year in it would not set alarm bells ringing.

 

If they are so disorganised that they cannot budget for at least a year in advance, taking into account potential problems such as a third wave, etc, well, you have to ask how long will it be if you reduce rent before another problem arises.

 

Ask yourself how old this couple are - are they inexperienced at things like this? And how is that your problem? What you will do if another problem arises just another four months down the road?

 

Personally? I would tell them no, come back to you next January if still an issue, as one year is an acceptable time to be broaching the subject, and be prepared to get the keys to your man cave back, worst case scenario. 

[GreasyFingers]

11 minutes ago, Drew3223 said:

The main sticking point for me personally would be that the optimal time to negotiate reduced rent would have been when the contract was signed which was four months ago. If you were even a year in it would not set alarm bells ringing.

 

If they are so disorganised that they cannot budget for at least a year in advance, taking into account potential problems such as a third wave, etc, well, you have to ask how long will it be if you reduce rent before another problem arises.

 

Ask yourself how old this couple are - are they inexperienced at things like this? And how is that your problem? What you will do if another problem arises just another four months down the road?

 

Personally? I would tell them no, come back to you next January if still an issue, as one year is an acceptable time to be broaching the subject, and be prepared to get the keys to your man cave back, worst case scenario. 

Never bring personally into business dealings, a sure fire way to fail.

[pacovl46]

I guess the nice thing to do would be to give them the reduction and set up a contract that says they’ll have to pay a bit more rent when Covid is over. After all they invested some money in the alterations and if you kick them out then that money will be gone for them as well. If you were in their shoes you wouldn’t be happy about that either. 

 

Just because they bought a nice car and nice clothes before Covid hit doesn’t mean that they still have a lot of money now, if it is true they had to close down most of their other businesses, that is, but that would be easy enough to find out. 

[pacovl46]

34 minutes ago, Drew3223 said:

The main sticking point for me personally would be that the optimal time to negotiate reduced rent would have been when the contract was signed which was four months ago. If you were even a year in it would not set alarm bells ringing.

 

If they are so disorganised that they cannot budget for at least a year in advance, taking into account potential problems such as a third wave, etc, well, you have to ask how long will it be if you reduce rent before another problem arises.

 

Ask yourself how old this couple are - are they inexperienced at things like this? And how is that your problem? What you will do if another problem arises just another four months down the road?

 

Personally? I would tell them no, come back to you next January if still an issue, as one year is an acceptable time to be broaching the subject, and be prepared to get the keys to your man cave back, worst case scenario. 

Normally I’d agree with you, but 4 months ago according to the Thai government Thailand did not have a Covid problem, it was all roses and butterflies, remember? But now reality has finally caught up and the situation is very different now. 4 months ago they still had four other successful businesses which they don’t have now. Big difference! 

[KhaoYai]

On 4/29/2021 at 3:22 PM, jack71 said:

Its a hard decision to make and my gut feeling is that I say no way.

Reading your post - that's my gut feeling too.  However, you have to consider the current economic climate in Thailand. They could be worried that they may not even be allowed to open or that business may be slow due to the general state of the economy.

 

Then again, they could have agreed to the initial rent to simply secure the property and now may indeed be trying it on.

 

I would suggest that you possibly agree to a reduction in rent to a fixed duration (short) to allow them some relief in the current situation but be clear in the new contract that the rent will rise after that time with no further negotiations.

[SiSePuede419]

Hard times require creative thinking.  I like the idea of adding the rent reduction after 3 years.  No one can predict the future, but it's a good bet the Thai economy will be on the upswing in a few years. ????

[DJ54]

Maybe just sit down and talk it out..  ask what brought about 

your decision to ask for a discount. Maybe someone put a 

bug in their ear about good time to ask for reduction do to 

Covid. .. or it’s due to shortage of income.

 

Either way you could talk it out and make a decision on the outcome. 

 

I’ve not seen any posting regarding business reductions in rent.. but there’s be a lot of suggestions in the private sector 

to ask for reductions in rent.

 

Hope it all works out for you..

[Airalee]

6 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Normally I’d agree with you, but 4 months ago according to the Thai government Thailand did not have a Covid problem, it was all roses and butterflies, remember? But now reality has finally caught up and the situation is very different now. 4 months ago they still had four other successful businesses which they don’t have now. Big difference! 

4 months ago, Covid was still an issue and reduced rents were the norm.  If at the current time, the Covid crisis was behind  us with the borders open and the world reaching a state of normalcy, would it be ok for the landlord to say...”hey, I know we had a contract for two years but now that things are back to normal and you are running a profitable business, I’d like to raise your rent”?

 

It cuts both ways.

[pacovl46]

6 hours ago, Airalee said:

4 months ago, Covid was still an issue and reduced rents were the norm.  If at the current time, the Covid crisis was behind  us with the borders open and the world reaching a state of normalcy, would it be ok for the landlord to say...”hey, I know we had a contract for two years but now that things are back to normal and you are running a profitable business, I’d like to raise your rent”?

 

It cuts both ways.

Well, your almost always allowed to raise the rent at some point within a reasonable limit.

 

But no one could foretell how the Covid thing would play out and to blame them for a situation that was out of their control just isn’t fair. That’s all I’m saying. 

[smutcakes]

If its not going to affect you unduly and your business is going well, why not just take them at their word and give them their rent reduction (properly documented of course)

 

Yes, they might be pulling a fast one, but maybe they are over stretched and have been hit hard by this latest Covid wave.

 

Think of it as doing your bit to help- and sleep easy at night. Getting some income is better than none.

[Airalee]

4 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

Well, your almost always allowed to raise the rent at some point within a reasonable limit.

 

But no one could foretell how the Covid thing would play out and to blame them for a situation that was out of their control just isn’t fair. That’s all I’m saying. 

He’s not blaming them for anything.  It’s not about “fair” either.  What if a landlord had a mortgage and depended on the rent to pay it?  What if the landlord was potentially going to lose his property if he were to lower the rents.  
 

I’ll tell you “what if”.  It’s not the tenants problem.  The landlord made a calculated decision to go into business being a landlord and if it fails due to outside causes it fails.  The tenants don’t owe him anything and neither does he owe the tenants anything. It has nothing to do with being fair.

 

But...you missed the entirety of my point anyways.

[pacovl46]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

He’s not blaming them for anything.  It’s not about “fair” either.  What if a landlord had a mortgage and depended on the rent to pay it?  What if the landlord was potentially going to lose his property if he were to lower the rents.  
 

I’ll tell you “what if”.  It’s not the tenants problem.  The landlord made a calculated decision to go into business being a landlord and if it fails due to outside causes it fails.  The tenants don’t owe him anything and neither does he owe the tenants anything. It has nothing to do with being fair.

 

But...you missed the entirety of my point anyways.

I wasn’t blaming him, I was blaming you because you blamed them for not being able to look a year ahead. And asking doesn’t hurt anyone. They simply asked and now it’s up to the landlord. I didn’t miss your point either, I’m just disagreeing with it in this particular situation as indicated with my opening sentence which was “normally I’d agree with you, but...” so, who’s missing what? 

[Airalee]

42 minutes ago, pacovl46 said:

I wasn’t blaming him, I was blaming you because you blamed them for not being able to look a year ahead. And asking doesn’t hurt anyone. They simply asked and now it’s up to the landlord. I didn’t miss your point either, I’m just disagreeing with it in this particular situation as indicated with my opening sentence which was “normally I’d agree with you, but...” so, who’s missing what? 

I’m not blaming anybody in this situation.  I’m not taking any particular side but am trying to look at it from both angles.  There are people in the thread stating that the landlord “coerced” the tenants into signing a lease where really what he did was to provide an “incentive”.  Hardly something done in bad faith.

 

When someone starts a business, whether it be a landlord buying a property to rent out, or the person renting the property in order to start their own business venture, risks are part of the endeavor.  The tenant has a choice to either soldier on, ask for a reduction or fold the business.  The landlord has the same choices by either sticking to their guns and not reduce the rent or choose to reduce the rent.  Any choice made by either party comes with risks.  There are no obligations on the part of either party.  Hopefully, things will work out for both of them.

[pacovl46]

14 hours ago, Airalee said:

I’m not blaming anybody in this situation.  I’m not taking any particular side but am trying to look at it from both angles.  There are people in the thread stating that the landlord “coerced” the tenants into signing a lease where really what he did was to provide an “incentive”.  Hardly something done in bad faith.

 

When someone starts a business, whether it be a landlord buying a property to rent out, or the person renting the property in order to start their own business venture, risks are part of the endeavor.  The tenant has a choice to either soldier on, ask for a reduction or fold the business.  The landlord has the same choices by either sticking to their guns and not reduce the rent or choose to reduce the rent.  Any choice made by either party comes with risks.  There are no obligations on the part of either party.  Hopefully, things will work out for both of them.

Well, there’s some really unreasonable people in this forum that’s for sure!

 

I hope it works out for both of them as well! 

[Drew3223]

I mean, they had the first two months free. Now, two months into paying the agreed monthly payment, they are asking for it to be reduced.

 

Does that not strike anyone else as, you know, completely unreasonable? Two months free (so effectively four months at half price) and now asking for the rest of the rent payments at a reduced rate? 

 

Nah. Would be something if it was even six months in. Sounds like a con job.

 

[jack71]

If anyone is interested in my final decision then read on. 

 

I asked my wife how much and how long does she think we should give a reduction and she said give one to the end of this year which I didnt agree with. 

 

Thus, I decided to ask this question to the tenant and take it from there. 

 

He said he wanted a 12k reduction for 3 months. The existing rent is in the low 40k mark. So I agreed to this on the priviso that they leave the recently installed metal structure for the signage on the front of the building. We asked our sign guy how much he would quote to do the same job. It came back at 60,000 baht. The tenant agreed and everyone is happy. 

 

Last night we drove around our city trying to find a restaurant that was open. So many closed at the moment. The economy is on its knees. We only have China to thank for all this....

[GreasyFingers]

10 hours ago, jack71 said:

If anyone is interested in my final decision then read on. 

 

I asked my wife how much and how long does she think we should give a reduction and she said give one to the end of this year which I didnt agree with. 

 

Thus, I decided to ask this question to the tenant and take it from there. 

 

He said he wanted a 12k reduction for 3 months. The existing rent is in the low 40k mark. So I agreed to this on the priviso that they leave the recently installed metal structure for the signage on the front of the building. We asked our sign guy how much he would quote to do the same job. It came back at 60,000 baht. The tenant agreed and everyone is happy. 

 

Last night we drove around our city trying to find a restaurant that was open. So many closed at the moment. The economy is on its knees. We only have China to thank for all this....

Negotiated settlement, always the good option.

[rumak]

On 4/30/2021 at 1:38 AM, kingofthemountain said:

After one year, at the end of my rent. seing another same condo in the same residence was rented for a lower rent i asked for a reduction on the rent

 

you had every right to do that as your agreed term was completed,  and you honored the agreement.

not quite the same situation as 2 months free......pay one month....... then ask to change the terms

[rumak]

did anyone suggest giving a slight reduction but asking for rent to be paid for the next 3 months at the signing of such agreement.