Over to you crypto fanboys

[fdsa]

4 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

They'll find a way around it, they always do.

do you store all your funds in cash under the mattress? Remember - almighty hackers could hack both your computer (to log into the bank account) and your phone (to get SMS code for confirming the transaction) at the same time!

 

7 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

Here's my tip - put all your money into crypto

nice tip, more than 80% of my funds are in various cryptos already and I'm not planning to sell.

 

[BenDeCosta]

Just now, fdsa said:

 

nice tip, more than 80% of my funds are in various cryptos already and I'm not planning to sell.

 

 

Well if you have hundreds of millions, I'm sure you'll be fine with 20%.

[GrandPapillon]

5 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yet governments can print trillions of dollars not backed by anything but belief as well, some irony.

well, what would you believe first, a government with an army, police, judicial institutions and the rule of law and democracy on their side, or a bunch of Chinese "hacks" and "darknet criminals" who "print" bitcoins ????

[GrandPapillon]

and this crypto thing is actually very interesting, it says a lot about our society and the future generations (the clueless kids) ????

 

I don't know but I can't help picture the crypto enthusiasts as the equivalent of likes on Kim Kardashian pics on Instagram ????

 

I mean, she has a fat ass and she is all fake, and yet people still fall for it, I mean <deleted> is wrong with people these days ????

[GrandPapillon]

3 minutes ago, josthomz said:

You find a million flaws in everything except the four things you quoted above. You blindly trust them?

 

“My MoNeY iS sAfE bEcAuSe ThE rUlE oF lAw GiVeS vAlUe To My UsD”

there is a lot of things wrong with our society, doesn't mean we have to burn every government buildings down

 

I think millennials and GenY are telling us a lot of important things with cryptos, that they don't feel like fixing society, probably out of incompetence or laziness, or both ????

 

not saying they are wrong, and maybe we can't fix things, but putting all your beliefs in tech like Cryptos? I mean, how can anyone be that 'naive' to be polite?

[GrandPapillon]

6 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

Yeah, anyone can create a new cryptocurrency and become an overnight billionaire. 

 

But there are people around the world willing to chuck in their life savings, hoping that what they buy can be sold to a bigger idiot at many times the price they paid. But what they are buying or selling has no intrinsic value. It's almost like a Ponzi scheme.

 

Buying and selling something with no intrinsic value is speculating, not investing.

it's not even speculating, it's pure gambling, that is the risk is 10x the returns ????

[The Cipher]

7 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

and this crypto thing is actually very interesting, it says a lot about our society and the future generations (the clueless kids)

 

One of the things that actually makes me the most bullish about crypto actually carving out a sustainable place in the world is the amount and quality of human capital behind the good projects.

 

If you know where to look for quality info on the asset class, a quick read through of comments makes it obvious that the IQs and achievement-histories of many crypto participants are meaningfully above average.

 

But beyond that, crypto is becoming less a space dominated by retail capital from younger generations and increasingly one that is trending towards general institutional adoption (a big deal).

 

I mean this in the best way, but if a person has never had a six figure earnings year over an entire career, that person might want to consider why we are seeing many folks who are talented enough to pick up those pay packages leave their stable jobs to start businesses or work at projects oriented towards the crypto space.

 

Crypto isn't a sure thing and could be gone in 10 years, but if I have to choose between the ideas of folks with track records of outperformance versus folks with 20-40yr career track records of mediocrity, I guess I know where I will lay my bets. ????‍♂️

[GrandPapillon]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

 

One of the things that actually makes me the most bullish about crypto actually carving out a sustainable place in the world is the amount and quality of human capital behind the good projects.

 

 

plenty of extremely smart people in the "hacking" community, and "money laundering" activities, and plenty of creative minds in the drug smuggling business ????

 

and the same things could be said about "Financial Markets" and look where it led us in 2008 ????

[Logosone]

Made some nice money shorting BTC/USD, and I suspect this downslide will continue a bit. But as sure as there's clouds in the sky BTC/USD will go up again, probably when it bottoms out at 30,000. 

 

The market moves in waves. Not straight lines.

[The Cipher]

18 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

 

plenty of extremely smart people in the "hacking" community, and "money laundering" activities, and plenty of creative minds in the drug smuggling business ????

 

and the same things could be said about "Financial Markets" and look where it led us in 2008 

 

Sure, but who actually suffered the brunt of those losses? And who has gained since then? Still looks like outperformers outperforming while the folks who have always been average continue to be average.

 

There is so much nuance required to accurately evaluate a space like this. It isn't an all or nothing proposition...

 

For example here is an article from today about US regulators exploring stricter regulation of the crypto space (behind a paywall, unfortunately). In the article Comptroller of the Currency Michael Hsu states that he is concerned that cryptocurrencies need regulation because they may "give rise to a large and less regulated banking system" and that the current environment around crypto "reminded him of the years leading up to the financial crisis".

 

Uh oh, right? Crypto going to zero!

 

But wait. The article also says that "Hsu believes there is no turning back from innovations such as the blockchain technology used in cryptocurrencies" and that the regulator's aims are to "bring similar protections to the exchanges where you trade crypto assets as you much expect at the NYSE or Nasdaq."

 

So there's a lot of info in that one article alone to work through.

 

On the surface it might seem that increased regulation is bad for the crypto space and crypto prices - and it might be! But on a deeper level and longer horizon, it might actually be a net positive because cleaning up regulatory uncertainty and implementing investor protections could spur institutional adoption at a faster rate, and indicate that the regulators see the space as here to stay.

 

In general my point is that opinions on crypto really shouldn't be "The technology is transformative! It will certainly go to the moon!" or "There is no underlying value to anything crypto, it will certainly go to zero!" Rather, there might be a nuanced middle ground that might require some actual thought arrive at.

[Logosone]

15 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

 

On the surface it might seem that increased regulation is bad for the crypto space and crypto prices - and it might be! But on a deeper level and longer horizon, it might actually be a net positive because cleaning up regulatory uncertainty and implementing investor protections could spur institutional adoption at a faster rate, and indicate that the regulators see the space as here to stay.

 

In general my point is that opinions on crypto really shouldn't be "The technology is transformative! It will certainly go to the moon!" or "There is no underlying value to anything crypto, it will certainly go to zero!" Rather, there might be a nuanced middle ground that might require some actual thought arrive at.

 

Absolutely correct. They said regulation would be bad for Cayman. In the short term it was. But in the long term it made sure Cayman Islands continues as the financial centre of choice for funds.

[Heng]

15 hours ago, josthomz said:

“Don’t Put All Your Eggs in One Basket” doesn’t mean you can’t put one egg in that specific basket when you have, say a dozen eggs. 

 

Part of the no coiner "spiel" is that anyone invested in crypto is surely doing so irresponsibly and going 'all in' or at least deep enough to where surely it 'will end in tears' (trademark pending).   Yeah, there are folks who burn their crypto gains/capital like lottery winners, Nicolas Cage, or your typical ghetto to NFL athlete on depreciating assets and entertainment, but it's hardly the norm IME.      

[BenDeCosta]

2 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

Highly doubt it, I love cryptos because since 2017 to date I have had huge gains in crypto. 

 

But at the moment my crypto portfolio is of around 200K USD, and that is still not 10% of my total assets. 

 

You see? I love cryptos and I am all for them, but I wouldn't recommend to anyone let alone myself investing more than 10% of your assets in crypto. 

 

This way, should a crash happen (which it may or may not happen) you won't end up in tears.

 

I think a major part of the people who invest in cryptos, are well aware of this "Don't Put All Your Eggs in One Basket" thing. A fool minority will go 'all in' and perhaps some day end up in tears.

 

You're smart. If you have a diversified portfolio, then there's nothing wrong with chucking a bit of extra money into a high-risk investment, indeed it may turn out to be the thing that makes you rich.

 

But, there are many people touting crypto as basically free money, a guaranteed money-spinner, despite the fact that BTC is down 40%+ in the last few weeks.

 

Many years ago, I used BitCoin to buy something online. I bought a tiny bit more than I needed just because I was worried that the exchange rate was fluctuating. The dregs of that transaction were worth less than a dollar at the time, but now are worth more than $9000, so of course I sold.

 

Why so many people are touting such a volatile investment with no intrinsic value is beyond me, but if people are making a fortune from it, then my opinion is irrelevant. Would I throw my life savings at it? No way. Would I put 5% of my net worth into it? Why not?

 

Is crypto the future? No, it's a fad of buying and selling things that don't exist, and hoping that the next fool will pay more than you paid.

[GrandPapillon]

Crypto trading is not investing, it's gambling

 

would you call your bets in a casino investments? or course not, unless you were some kind of casino addict

 

people are free to gamble their life savings or even their life at the casino if they choose to, there is absolutely no problem with that

 

the problem is when they come to tell that there is no other way to make money, that it is the future of investing or some other wacky non-sense,

 

it's just BS, and it says a lot about a person when they make that kind of claims, if you get my drift ????

[The Cipher]

Quote

Crypto trading is not investing, it's gambling

 

9 minutes ago, josthomz said:

I thought that was a no-brainer and in this topic we were past that..... 

 

But we're apparently not past debating whether crypto has fundamentals, no matter how much info I post...

[fdsa]

On 5/30/2021 at 2:16 PM, fdsa said:

 

and another shiny new billion of fake "stablecoin" dollars from the Tether team:

 

 

 

 

and fkn THREE billions new USDT printed just an hour ago:

 

 

 

 

https://whale-alert.io/transaction/ethereum/85b3b6bc642568dafe1e4027ff3bd01a69fd12c2087ec87e136f4a09fd3e4ee2

 

https://whale-alert.io/transaction/ethereum/498bbdea4bfba5a4ff0aa3e23400eb39df8c63a50a6b11d60909a359a7301509

 

https://whale-alert.io/transaction/ethereum/761a0a6358eee745bdd6a1ff28e8c7401a2447e78f3c6b32c45d9294240f4f99

 

 

total 10 billions of fake digital dollars printed just in 1 month:

 

 

[The Cipher]

4 minutes ago, josthomz said:

Cryptos depend on many things, some of which are more factual and others which are more BS, but neither of them happens to be luck. 

 

Can't exactly agree with this. All non-arbitrage investments contain some degree of uncertainty that can be thought of as 'luck.' There are almost always factors outside the control of the investor that will affect future pricing and may or may not end up contributing favorably to the investment.

 

I think that what good investors do is try to minimize the effect of luck by trying to understand their investment as much as possible, and the factors that will affect its future returns trajectory. Then it's just about a bet based on the balance of probabilities (which ties into the concept of luck).

 

But anyway, my issue here is with the idea that an investment in a crypto asset is necessarily similar to inserting a coin into a slot machine, where once you've placed your bet and pulled the lever, your return is based purely on an unknown probability of jackpot owing to no fundamental value.

 

Although I'd agree that the degree of uncertainty (luck) involved in crypto investing is significantly higher in general than for more mature assets, it is absolutely possible to do an analysis into a token in an attempt to determine a range of fair value.

 

That's all, lol. Finance is my day job and I'm pretty passionate about it. I also seem to have discovered a passion for trolling my elders. God help me.

[ukrules]

20 minutes ago, fdsa said:

total 10 billions of fake digital dollars printed just in 1 month:

You think they're all fake?

 

This 3 billion 'event' was announced by Paolo on Twitter, he said it's moving from TRN to ETH....that's what you're seeing above.

 

[fdsa]

12 minutes ago, ukrules said:

You think they're all fake?

they revealed that only 3% of USDT is backed by US dollars (only about 2 billion real USD coverage out of ~65 billion USDT total) and some USDT are even backed by cryptocurrencies which are in turn backed by USDT lol.

 

[GrandPapillon]

52 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

 

But we're apparently not past debating whether crypto has fundamentals, no matter how much info I post...

because the info you post are confirming that Cryptos have no fundamentals, that's a given

 

it's like saying that the dice or cards you use for gambling in a casino has any fundamentals ????

[GrandPapillon]

for those interested in watching a visual of Cryptos in blockchain action, here it is ????

 

https://hackernoon.com/digging-deeper-into-cryptoassets-data-and-visualization-resources-8a922b62d51c

[GrandPapillon]

and here is another interesting stats website for cryptos ????

 

https://data.bitcoinity.org/markets/volume/30d?c=e&t=b

[GrandPapillon]

that one is also quite fascinating if you enjoy watching green and red flash lights ????

 

https://blockchair.com

[The Cipher]

20 minutes ago, josthomz said:

I highly doubt this is any different from an investment in let's say purchasing shares from X company.

 

It's not different. It's exactly the same. Except that crypto has a higher degree of uncertainty.

 

21 minutes ago, josthomz said:

Now let's say, you bet $10,000 that in the next F1 race Lewis Hamilton will win. You could also do an analysis and say that Mercedes has the most suitable car for Baku, you could say that Lewis has won the majority of the races this year....... Does this count as investment or as gambling? It doesn't depend on 'random luck', it depends on Lewis, and Mercedes, and the rest of the pilots, right? 

 

Would consider this an investment. You did your due diligence and staked some capital on an uncertain future outcome presumably because you liked the opportunity based on the market mispricing the probability of a Mercedes win. There are actually investment funds that are wholly, or partially, mandated to sports bet. It's pretty interesting.

[The Cipher]

13 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

because the info you post are confirming that Cryptos have no fundamentals, that's a given

 

it's like saying that the dice or cards you use for gambling in a casino has any fundamentals

 

Darn. It's almost like I didn't link dump some articles explaining value cases for crypto a couple of pages back.

 

But I will admit, I did buy into some of my crypto positions purely based on several people I respect suggesting that I do so. Didn't do any of my own DD. So I guess I really am a degenerate gambler lol.

[Heng]

5 hours ago, josthomz said:

 

Highly doubt it, I love cryptos because since 2017 to date I have had huge gains in crypto. 

 

....

 

I think a major part of the people who invest in cryptos, are well aware of this "Don't Put All Your Eggs in One Basket" thing. A fool minority will go 'all in' and perhaps some day end up in tears.

 

You doubt what?  That's pretty much what I said.  ????

[GrandPapillon]

12 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

Darn. It's almost like I didn't link dump some articles explaining value cases for crypto a couple of pages back.

 

But I will admit, I did buy into some of my crypto positions purely based on several people I respect suggesting that I do so. Didn't do any of my own DD. So I guess I really am a degenerate gambler lol.

if you think those were value cases for cryptos, then I would seriously consider looking for help for your reading comprehension and analytical skills ????

 

so basically, you follow blindly some people advice on some "perceived" respect. Yep, that's the way to do it. Madoff will be proud, young padawan ????

[fdsa]

28 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

that one is also quite fascinating if you enjoy watching green and red flash lights ????

 

https://blockchair.com

I would recommend bitcoinwisdom for watching green and red lights - it's the best (most simple & fast) website among all exchange rate trackers.

 

https://bitcoinwisdom.io/the-heatmap

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, fdsa said:

I would recommend bitcoinwisdom for watching green and red lights - it's the best (most simple & fast) website among all exchange rate trackers.

 

https://bitcoinwisdom.io/the-heatmap

yes nice one,

 

had another one that was even better, let me find it ????

[GrandPapillon]

interesting, a big drop in electricity consumption for mining

 

https://cbeci.org/